Mirajane Strauss vs Erza Scarlet

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@cocacolaman: no Marco is not banned. Her Halphas form is banned due to being too powerful. Nobody else has this stipulation, and that’s her 4th most powerful demonic take over.

Halphas can destroy an entire city so her other forms scale far above that

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GrandTOAA

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#52  Edited By GrandTOAA

@emmafrostxmen: You said you don't think Mirajane would last as long as Erza did against Laxus, then you turn around and list Mirajane above Laxus in strength. So You think Mirajane is stronger than Laxus? And let's debunk something right now. Sitri used to be her strongest Takeover, but we saw Seilah easily blitz her, which sent her back to normal. Alegria is her strongest form to date, yet all it did was defeat two inanimate objects lol, before losing power and getting used by Eileeen as a play thing, so I don't know why you keep bringing up Halphas when her Strongest forms have performed horribly on panel. Fairy Law is a banned technique which Makarov and Laxus can do, The Magic UI used to seek Deidora, and the one Gray was going to use against Zeref, were also banned techniques, but that doesn't suddenly make them stronger than the likes of Zeref and Acnologia, so stop using that as your only form of argument, and present actual feats. As of right now, she loses to Gildarts, Natsu, Laxus, Gray, Erza, and maybe even Gajeel, unless you can prove otherwise.

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JDogg

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#53  Edited By JDogg

1. Skullion is far stronger than Kiria. He was capable of oneshotting Gray amd Gray ain't a slouch. Mira fought him to a stalemate in her base satan soul which is her weakest form. She also hurt Madmole capable of no selling a FDK Demo-fist.

2. Laxus nuke is not really doing much to a S12 tier bar Neinheart. Ajeel has proven to be able to tank punches from Elfman who was negating his sand abilities and can also punch above a Demo-fist.

3. Mira did in fact vape a sea in the anime. She also vaped hill/mountain size rock formations.

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4. Mira has hax that they cannot counter. She could easily macro Erza and be done with the fight. Not to mention the plethora of other Tartarus abilities.

5. Mira has more magical power than Makarov as Heine and Juliet pretty much dissed Makarov yet were in fear of Mira's mp. Makarov has the biggest MP in the guild as Gray was shocked how a S12 had more MP than Makarov so that means Makarov has the biggest otherwise he would have used another guild mates mp as the comparison. Juliet and Heine were also around S12s and Juliet dissed Larcade and Bloodman so it might imply that Mira's Alegria MP is above a regular S12 as well.

Don't sleep on Mira guys.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@grandtoaa: Mira is so strong in her Alegria form that her standing there affects the environment and evaporates an entire sea

Those 2 inanimate objects are both enchanted by one of the most powerful women in their verse so that’s a feat for Mira for one being able to one shot them in Alegria form.

Mira can still Marco her. You needs feats to resist mind control. Fodder resisting them is a feat for them, not an anti feat for Mira

Mira can destroy a city and her MP is far higher than Erza

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Etherious

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#55  Edited By Etherious

@jdogg: Skullion is not far stronger than Kiria, Diabolos Trio are all comparable in strenght & MP. Gray only lost because he didn’t know how to deal against his magic. Just wait some chapters and you will see Gray oneshotting Skullion Raider, like every rematch in Fairy Tail.

Juliet & Heine has nothing comparable to S12 level. Even the weakeast S12 is way stronger than Juliet & Heine, if they was S12 level, they would be a Spriggan and not only 2 fodder sword of Eileen. They has litteraly no feats who put him on S12 level.

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JDogg

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#56  Edited By JDogg

@etherious: Skullion is far stronger than Kiria. No, they were never stated to be comparable in strength and have difference in degree of feats. Gray already shown to negate his ash and ash body, but still got destroyed after letting loose his strongest stuff unlike Erza and Natsu. He has been contemplating how to beat the either of them for multiple chapters. Tried to get bravado and got shut down with facts he couldn't refute. He then tries to take down Mira bcs she injured which his own girl called him a coward for it.

Juliet & Heine fought Mira who beat Jacob w/o assistance and was magically exhausted. J & H pushed Mira harder than Skullion who oneshotted Gray. Juliet & Heine are creations from Irene who was capable of making fodder Erza level. Irene put time and effort in them unlike the fodder berserker. They aren't S12s bcs they are Irene's swords. Wouldn't be good to have elite soldiers that lives are tied to one person.

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GrandTOAA

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@emmafrostxmen: Those two inanimate objects are no where close to Spriggans level, and it took Mirajane strongest form to beat them, after which she lost all her energy. Erza fought against three Spriggans while Jacob fought Mirajane with his eyes closed. Even if her damage output is large, her durability is trash compared to most of the stronger guys in the guild. Erza can outlast her. Even if someone I agree Mirajane can beat Erza, she ain't touching Laxus and Gildarts.

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GrandTOAA

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@jdogg: August stated that Ajeel would have died, and August is not someone who makes false claims. And that nuke would take a lot of the Spriggans down, if they took it head on without protection. Someone of them have good Hax but bad durability... just like Mirajane. Gajeel already fought someone who had all of Tartarus abilities and won, so many others can do it, And Macro might not work on Stronger foes. Let's face it, Mirajane is the weakest S-Class wizard.

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JDogg

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#59  Edited By JDogg

@grandtoaa: August was being sentimental and feats are in favor of Ajeel's words rather than August. Laxus has never oneshotted an Ajeel tier and Ajeel was able to destroy Erza in 1v1 which is something Laxus couldn't do. The guy Gajeel won against barely used the 9D powers which were actually damaging him and instead went fot a garbo curse. Macro, Memento Mori, and and Sensation and Enhancing curses would have f-ed Gajeel over. Gajeel also needed DF to win a fight with an S12 while Mira was nerfed and still won. Mirajame doesn't have bad durability at all. She was able to take hits from the guy who fodderized Gray and Jacob while in her weakest forms. Macro has already shown to work on stronger characters (Seilah while weakened to the point of being able to be oneshotted by BSS easily Macro both Erza and Minerva). Plus hax trumps PL all the time in the verse. Hiro had an entire spiel in a afterword about how hax bust PL which is why authors tend not use them.

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GrandTOAA

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@jdogg: Mirajane is no where near Laxus, so let's not go into that. Jacob was also confident he could take on Acnologia before August stopped him so does that mean he could take him on? Throughout the arc, he was always a straight shooter and there was nothing sentimental about that. The look of fear on Ajeel's face when he saw the blast says so, he was just being cocky after that. Also Erza fought Ajeel while Handicapped due to Tamara Marin. Laxus fought a Spriggan while dying of MBP. Once he was healed, he not only one shotted him, but he actually killed him. Watching the Laxus vs Erza, you can say Erza survived against Laxus, which should be counted as a feat for Erza since Laxus effortlessly stomped Kiria, cuz Mirajane wouldn't have done the same.

I am glad you mentioned feats, so Let's compare Erza and Mirajane so far in the you series.

Lost to Azuma, Erza beat Azuma.

Her Sitri form was blitzed and one shotted by Seilah, while Erza beat a stronger opponent who removed all her senses and increased her sensitivity to pain.

Her strongest form only defeated two non Spriggan fighters and she immediately lost her energy, and was tortured by Irene, while Erza fought Irene, destroyed a meteorite and still cut a Dragon.

And also, Skullion Didn't fodderize Gray. They were going back and fought before Skullion won, that's like say Kiria fodderize Erza, Wendy and Lucy while Mad Mole fodderized Natsu. Gray didn't even use Devil Slaying Magic in the fight.

She has weaker durability than Gildarts, Natsu, Laxus, Erza, Gray and Gajeel and Ironically, her so called weakest form is actually her best bet cuz using the other forms against stronger opponents is suicide.

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CocaColaMan

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@emmafrostxmen: City Level isn’t even Base Natsu Level, who one shot Bluenote. Since no one can logically say Base Natsu > Erza, I don’t see how being city level is much a matter to Erza.

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WargodCalypso

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@jdogg: Mirajane is no where near Laxus, so let's not go into that. Jacob was also confident he could take on Acnologia before August stopped him so does that mean he could take him on? Throughout the arc, he was always a straight shooter and there was nothing sentimental about that. The look of fear on Ajeel's face when he saw the blast says so, he was just being cocky after that. Also Erza fought Ajeel while Handicapped due to Tamara Marin. Laxus fought a Spriggan while dying of MBP. Once he was healed, he not only one shotted him, but he actually killed him. Watching the Laxus vs Erza, you can say Erza survived against Laxus, which should be counted as a feat for Erza since Laxus effortlessly stomped Kiria, cuz Mirajane wouldn't have done the same.

I am glad you mentioned feats, so Let's compare Erza and Mirajane so far in the you series.

Lost to Azuma, Erza beat Azuma.

Her Sitri form was blitzed and one shotted by Seilah, while Erza beat a stronger opponent who removed all her senses and increased her sensitivity to pain.

Her strongest form only defeated two non Spriggan fighters and she immediately lost her energy, and was tortured by Irene, while Erza fought Irene, destroyed a meteorite and still cut a Dragon.

And also, Skullion Didn't fodderize Gray. They were going back and fought before Skullion won, that's like say Kiria fodderize Erza, Wendy and Lucy while Mad Mole fodderized Natsu. Gray didn't even use Devil Slaying Magic in the fight.

She has weaker durability than Gildarts, Natsu, Laxus, Erza, Gray and Gajeel and Ironically, her so called weakest form is actually her best bet cuz using the other forms against stronger opponents is suicide.

Whoa, whoa, whoa there buddy!!! Let me correct you on some of those feats. Azuma didn't actually beat Mira. The only reason why Mira lost is because she wasn't able to beat Azuma within the bomb time frame so she actually sacrificed herself to protect her sister Lisanna....Azuma NEVER actually beat Mira in a straight fight. As a matter of fact he was actually getting his butt kicked. Erza was losing her fight against Azuma from the very beginning and only won due to PLOT ARMOR.....LOL. Erza also only won that fight against the Tartarus mage only because of PLOT ARMOR. She never should have won that and you know it. So don't let your bias affect your judgment here. Mira is INDEED more powerful than Erza. Erza is a main character so she carries a plot device at all times. But without a plot device, Mira would beat Erza 9/10 times

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JDogg

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#63  Edited By JDogg

@grandtoaa: She is as Erza is. Mira has always been portrayed on a similar level as Erza w/o PIS being thrown into the mix as they've shown similar feats. Jacob was enraged bcs Acno just killed his comrade. He wasn't thinking straight. August was sentimental. It was the reason they tried to negotiate a peace treaty with him and ultimately the reason he did not kill FT. Ajeel saw the blast and still thought he could solo Ishgar. He was only surprised that they were stronger than what he expected. Ajeel only toyed with her at that point and it didn't even last that long. Bisca's Jupiter shot and Natsu's distractions however are the only time she ever landed a clean hit on Ajeel. Bisca also saved her life. So yeah, Marin's spacial magic was minimal help as he didn't even try to kill her at that point unlike Erza when she was using Natsu's distraction as well as Bisca's. He then stomped her with a simple choke grab. Kiria would have been stomped by Mira as Mira hits harder than a Demo-fist and Kiria is not taking a stronger than Demo-fist attack to the face nor is Kiria capable of overpowering Gray and oneshotting him. Mira would no diff Kiria who got the Kagura treatment (in Flame Empress at that which is a garbo armor) after Erza stopped playing. Erza and Laxus were equals in that fight so she wasn't surviving anything. He also admitted he couldn't take her down w/o RL which is something he didn't have access to in Alvarez. That means Erza was stronger than Laxus in Alvarez.

Lost to Azuma bcs of her sister and stated she could beat him 50/50 with only the little magical power she had left. Erza was fully healthy against Azuma and Azuma was able to stop her strongest attack and only lost due to using the Tenrou tree power which protected her and amped her abilities. Look at the context of the fights please.

Seilah was on par with Kyouka and Silver in the ranking of 9Ds. Erza also got blitzed and oneshotted out of Fairy Armadura once Kyouka went Etherious mode. She only won due to PIS in that fight and Kyouka actively weakening as she was kill herself.

That form was overkill for them and two Erza was getting whooped by Irene's beserkers. Algeria also was capable of vaping a sea with just a magic flex as shown above. Clearly Irene's enchantment that she invested time into are stronger than an enchantment she easily did within a second aka berserker which were manhandling Erza in red pants. Erza never fought Irene w/o magic and she only lasted long bcs she had PoF/PIS, Wendy's help, and Irene holding back against Erza as she loved her and couldn't kill her. You're forgetting the context of the fight. Irene would have merked Erza and Wendy if she wanted to. Wendy already admitted that Irene could easily overpower her enchantments. Irene also she could stomp an enhance Red Pants Erza, Heaven's Wheel which a non enchanted Erza matched Laxus' Raiko Lightning with it and kick Erza's butt in Wendy's body which is far weaker than her regular human form.

Gray didn't even use DeS in the fight? Did you even read the fight??? Erza only lost bcs of hax and Natsu only lost bcs he got thrown on a ship. Those two never fought them all out unlike Gray who released the strongest stuff in his arsenal while he was in his strongest mode aka DeS mode. Gray got fodderized by Skullion as Skullion straight up overpowered his DeS ice and oneshotted Gray. He also was not even scratched by Gray's Ice Demon Slayer sword as well. Currently Gray doesn't even know how to take Skullion down.

No, she doesn't. You haven't shown anything to say such as she was fighting people who were manhandling the likes Natsu and Gray in her weakest forms. Base Natsu got overpowered easily by Jacob and didn't have the explosive power necessary to hurt Madmole. Mira did that with basic punches in base form and BSS. Gray got fodderized by Skullion while Mira stalemated him in her weakest form. Gajeel needed a power up to beat an S12 (DF) while Mira beat one while nerfed (magical exhaustion). Natsu wants to fight Mira as much as he wants to fight Laxus. Gray and co spent several chapters wondering how they were gonna take down Mira and Skullion as it was stated Gray's ice would be useless on them which he himself couldn't refute. Gray then only tries to take on Mira bcs she was weakened in her fight with Skullion who again is far stronger than Gray.

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GrandTOAA

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#64  Edited By GrandTOAA

@jdogg: Erza was never stronger than Laxus or Jellal. All her armours were uselessly against him, which is why she went straight to her strongest weapon. She didn't have the dragonslayer enchanted sword in Alvarez. Call it Plot or whatever, Erza has tanked more than Mirajane ever has while Mirajane has been shown to have weaker durability. She cannot take all Erza was tanking against Laxus, or what Erza took against Eileen, Even if Laxus and Erza are equals, they are both above Mirajane. While Eileen is stronger, the Erza that fought Laxus was stronger than the one that fought her because She had the dragon slaying sword she used to deal her final blow to Dragon Eileen, and cut a dragons scale, mixed with Natsu's Dragon slaying magic, and Gray's devil slaying magic, Yet couldn't put Laxus down.

You bring up Mirajane's fight with Jacob but fail to mentioned that he fought with his eyes closed, and you bring up Natsu's fight with Jacob, but also fail to mention that Natsu didn't want to destroy the guild building. Once they were outside, he easily one shotted Jacob.p and evaporated the lake. You mention Mirajane being Exausted, even though Erza fought against 3 Spriggans, destroyed a meteorite with all the bones in her body broken, and was still fighting. So what exactly exhausted Mirajane? You take the words of Ajeel who is the typical overconfident villain that still lost to Elfman and Lisanna, over that of August who has always been the wisest and strictest of the Spriggans.

I was impressed that Mirajane was able to stalemate Skullion and Mad Mole since it was Elfman she was fighting alongside, but at the same time.., it was a stalemate, and Skullion isn't far stronger than Gray. Skullion's magic countered Gray's but he had a hard time against Wendy who is weaker than Gray, just like a Demon such as Mirajane would have a hard time against a Demon Slayer. Do you think Wendy is stronger than Gray?

Anyway this is Mirajane vs Erza, and even though we can blame PlS, which is a normal thing unfortunately in Fairytail, Erza has better showings than her. She can even use her Allegra form cuz it will consume all her powers immediately and be an automatic loss. I can agree that she beats Gajeel, but not Gildarts, Natsu, Laxus, Erza and Gray.

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Floridaman29

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Alegria Mirajane may be a match for Erza but not Irene

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JDogg

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@grandtoaa: In Alvarez she was as Laxus needs RL to down her. Jellal hasn't been in her league since Tartarus. Erza has shown better endurance not durability and that's only bcs she gets PoF. Why not? W/o PoF Erza and Mira are equals. It's only when she is hyped on PoF juice that Erza becomes more powerful as Erza is literally going beyond her standard limit to pull it off the bs. The Erza that fought Irene was actually stronger than the one Laxus fought as she was on PoF juice and that let her cut through a Master Enchant level spell. Current Erza can only dish out high enchant level spells and she is only a noob at it. Erza showed she can cut Laxus with her regular arsenal as well as she cut him up with Heaven's Wheel and clashed against Laxus' strongest attack with it as well.

Jacob's eyes wasn't a hindrance as he stated that it wasn't bcs he can see presences. Natsu has AP and we see Jacob shrug off all his normal fire attacks which is why Natsu resorted to using FDKM as the finisher. He manhandled Base Natsu and Lucy in CQC and pinned Natsu to the floor. Natsu fought Zeref in the exact same fashion except he used DF as the finisher. Using FDKM which he only resorted to in two fights means it is not an easy win for him. Erza did not fight 3 S12s back to back as she had massive amounts of rest between fights and had Wendy to heal her. She also only directly fought two as she never fought Neinheart but his Historia and she needed to bs her way through to win that bout. Against Irene she was fully recovered and was getting amped by Wendy and Irene was holding back against her. Mira had no such luck bcs she didn't get to rest as she was walking to the guild all night and that was after she wasted all her magic, got torture by Irene, and pierced through the heart by August. It was stated by Brandish that she can't heal damage either so Mira had to fight while heavily injured and magically exhausted.

Skullion is far stronger than Gray as he oneshotted Gray after Gray used his strongest mode along with his best stuff. Wendy had type advantage due to wind being able to blow away his sand and she still needed Natsu to attack him to hurt him. He also was only shocked the first time around and didn't even resort to any of his bigger spells like the one he used on Gray that could destroy Elimina.

Erza only has better showings when she is on her bs streak. W/o it they have similar showings. Alegria is basically the same as Nakagami. Both their most powerful forms but can only use it for a limited time. She is beating Gray as he can only take her while she is weakened, and she can take out Laxus and Erza with simply hax like Macro. Gildarts is stronger than her, but there isn't a big gap anymore between S-Class and Natsu depends is if he goes his best form from the go or not bcs he can get macro-ed too.

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GrandTOAA

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@jdogg: If fodder soldiers can resist Macro, then so can the top wizards of the guild. So you wanna tell me she can Macro Zeref, Irene, August and all the Spriggans? Laxus can also take her out with Fairylaw but I prefer to argue with feats and not assumptions, and until I see something that tells me otherwise.

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JDogg

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@grandtoaa: Fodder never resisted Macro, it was Wall who stopped it with his weakness magic. All of the top-god tiers most likely have counters as they were able to counter more hax-ier magic lol. The high tier S12 can think and kill her with their own hax. Fairy Law takes charge time which means he won't have a chance to use it in a 1v1. Haz have been proven time and time again to work above PL and even the author admits it bust PLs.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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Macro will still affect Erza, and if that doesn’t work Mira’s damage output far surpasses hers

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ragegod

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Mira is looking better than Erza who jobbed to a DE first encounter. Mira held ground and drove them off with BSS. Also lol at anyone who considers Erza Laxus' equal. She had three enchantments from Wendy and still loss.

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GrandTOAA

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@jdogg: @jdogg: You see my problem is that most of your points are based on assumptions or statements, compared to feats. I saw someone on YouTube who said Gray stomps all S-Class mages and Spriggans, because he stalemated END, who Acnologia was afraid of lol. You see without actual feats, people can make such statements. You assume most of the top tiers from S12 can counter Macro, even though they haven't shown to do so, but you don't think Fairytail top tiers can too? Going by your logic, Mirajane can stomp Zeref, August, and Eileen with Macro.

And back to something you said earlier, Erza wasn't stronger in Alvarez. Laxus was sick then and once he was healed, killed Wahl. He had red lightening there. Against Laxus, Erza used a dragon Slaying sword that cut Dragon Eileen's scales, Natsu's dragonslaying magic, and Gray's Devil Slaying magic. She was stronger than in Alvarez. Two different enchantments that can one shot any top tier character.

I don't like Erza and I prefer Mirajane to her so i can agree Mirajane could win, but you see Against Gildarts, Natsu and Laxus? Nah lol. We just have to agree to disagree.

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silentNightz

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We can't be serious here; Erza would shit on Mirajane. They were rivals back in the day when they each first became S-class, and Mirajane hasn't really been seeing any action while Erza has been championing for the guild so much that she was an option for Guild Master.....while Mira was not. Erza would win easily in anything save a waifu contest.

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TheVivas

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@jdogg:

Laxus nuke is not really doing much to a S12 tier bar Neinheart. Ajeel has proven to be able to tank punches from Elfman who was negating his sand abilities and can also punch above a Demo-fist.

August basically confirmed that the nuke would have killed Ajeel if he didn't save him with a barrier, so that's not true.

Mira has hax that they cannot counter. She could easily macro Erza and be done with the fight. Not to mention the plethora of other Tartarus abilities.

Fodder Alvarez soldiers were able to resist Macro and Erza's willpower is clearly >>>>>> theirs.

What other "plethora" of Tartaros abilities does she have? Better yet, what does she have that are confirmed?

Mira has more magical power than Makarov as Heine and Juliet pretty much dissed Makarov yet were in fear of Mira's mp. Makarov has the biggest MP in the guild as Gray was shocked how a S12 had more MP than Makarov so that means Makarov has the biggest otherwise he would have used another guild mates mp as the comparison. Juliet and Heine were also around S12s and Juliet dissed Larcade and Bloodman so it might imply that Mira's Alegria MP is above a regular S12 as well.

This whole paragraph doesn't make sense.

Don't sleep on Mira guys.

Why is it sleeping on Mira to say she loses to Erza? (Haven't been following the thread in case you're talking about something else)

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JDogg

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#74  Edited By JDogg

@thevivas: Feats say August was wrong and Ajeel was right. Laxus has never oneshotted a mage as powerful (Erza) or weaker than Ajeel (Kiria).

There's only two scenarios why that happened. 1) Wall protected them as he analyzed the curse via Weakness magic or 2) Macro also never was used on that many people at once so it has a size limit. Former is more likely given Wall's words.

It was confirmed she has all the souls in Tartarus.

Mira's MP >>> Makarov's MP > Everyone ele's in the guild as per Gray's statement and backed again by Wraith's statement. Mira's MP could also be higher than a S12s since Juliette was scared as hell while she was chilled in the presence of a S12 and disrespectful towards them.

That was mostly a jab at the people who says Erza stomps w/o even accounting for Mira's hax since hax > PL in the verse and it was already shown to work on stronger opponents like Erza in the past. Also that Mira would be oneshotted by Laxus' nuke despite having a more impressive showing like vaping a sea.

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JDogg

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@grandtoaa: How is it an assumption when Wall himself showed he can stop it? August copy magic would negate it, Irene's enchantment would negate it, and Zeref is as skilled enchanter as Irene so he could prolly negate it with that. You're going to Top-God tier level opponents and saying since they haven't shown to negate it then it is an NLF which it's not. FT top tiers are nowhere near close to S12 top tiers either lol. Marin, Kiria, and an almost dead Seilah has already shown that Erza can get f-ed over by hax despite them being weaker than her. Brandish got haxed out by Mest lol. Hax > PL in the verse as hax has never been busted out by pure power but actual counters.

Red Lightning was an asspull which he needed another year to obtain. Once Wall's lightning immunity was up he went back to being inherently weak to lightning as well. W/o red lightning Erza is stronger than Laxus as she can tank everything he could dish out at her.

She has shown her Heaven's Wheel can match his strongest attack and still has Nakagami in the pocket. So her enchanted swords give her a better arsenal, but it's not like she goes to another level in offensive power. Plus Erza cut through Irene and did so much damage bcs Wendy enchanted and buffed as well Erza being hyped on PoF juice and just cut through a Masrer Enchant level spell. Current Erza is not on her PoF buffoonery level and that was shown when she couldn't even budge a 50% Merc while she was enchanted by Wendy yet knocked RoT Acno out of the sky w/o being enchanted lmao. Current Erza would get slapped by Irene even with the swords.

Cool. I can agree to disagree on that sentiment.

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ragegod

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@jdogg:

W/o red lightning Erza is stronger than Laxus as she can tank everything he could dish out at her.

w/o enchantments Erza is weaker than Kiria, much less Laxus lol

She has shown her Heaven's Wheel can match his strongest attack and still has Nakagami in the pocket

If you mean match as in get disintegrated on-panel, then sure lol Nakagami forever remains irrelevant.

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JDogg

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@ragegod: Erza slaughtered Kiria in one of her most pathetic armors lol. Kiria is not close to Erza level and that was made apparent in the Laxus fight.

Nakagami is considered her strongest armor and only used to end fights bcs of the toll it takes on her MP. Heaven's Wheel evenly matched Laxus' best attack and the armor was never disintegrated either.

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TheVivas

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@jdogg:

Feats say August was wrong and Ajeel was right.

They say the opposite, actually.

Laxus has never oneshotted a mage as powerful (Erza) or weaker than Ajeel (Kiria).

He oneshot Wahl who should be more powerful than Erza, and of course we haven't seen him oneshot people like that because he doesn't spam nukes like he did against Ajeel.

And there's no evidence that Kyria is weaker than Ajeel, so another moot point.

Wall protected them as he analyzed the curse via Weakness magic

Headcanon. The dude didn't care about his subordinates at all.

Macro also never was used on that many people at once so it has a size limit.

Headcanon again.

Why try to make excuses when we can just use what the manga gave us?

It was confirmed she has all the souls in Tartarus.

Show me her using any of their abilities.

Mira's MP >>> Makarov's MP > Everyone ele's in the guild as per Gray's statement and backed again by Wraith's statement.

Which makes absolutely no sense.

Mira's MP could also be higher than a S12s since Juliette was scared as hell while she was chilled in the presence of a S12 and disrespectful towards them.

Which again makes absolutely no sense.

That was mostly a jab at the people who says Erza stomps w/o even accounting for Mira's hax since hax > PL in the verse and it was already shown to work on stronger opponents like Erza in the past. Also that Mira would be oneshotted by Laxus' nuke despite having a more impressive showing like vaping a sea.

Magic power isn't as concrete a power level thing as it is in say NNT, so what does vaping a sea have to do with her durability?

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ragegod

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#79  Edited By ragegod

@jdogg:

Erza slaughtered Kiria in one of her most pathetic armors lol.

More like Kiria busted her Benziakura, then Erza had to resort to Wendy's enchantment to turn the tables.

Kiria is not close to Erza level and that was made apparent in the Laxus fight.

By this point Erza had three different enchantments, True Benizakura, Dragon Seal and Natsu / Gray. All courtesy of Wendy. So yeah, Erza with Wendy buffs is out of Kiria's league. Erza still hasn't bested Kiria under her own power to this day and likely won't since Wendy is carrying her at this point lmao

Heaven's Wheel evenly matched Laxus' best attack and the armor was never disintegrated either.

Open your eyes. Those blades are getting shredded. Not that it matters, the only feat Erza lays claim to without enchantments from this battle was withstanding Laxus' roar. Everything else was Laxus vs Erza and friends.

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GrandTOAA

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@jdogg: @jdogg: Nakagami is not Erza at her strongest, Lets get that straight. It good against bending magic and all, but offensively it's not impressive. It has been shown time and time again that when she doesn't wear any armor, she puts all her offensive power into the sword. That's when she is at her strongest offensively. She was at her strongest against Laxus, having the same dragon cutting sword she used to cut Dragon Irene, Natsu's Dragonslaying magic and Gray's dragon slaying magic enchantments. I am pretty sure Everyone thought Laxus would lose to that, but he is a tank. Laxus overwhelmed Erza in the fight, but because She is Erza, they had to make it seem like it was equal.

OT: Mirajane might have great offense but her durability is bad. What's Mirajane's most impressive feat, and victory in the serie?

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JDogg

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@thevivas: Actually they don't.

He didn't do that casually and once Wall's immunity was bypassed he became inherently weak to lightning again. Ajeel was taking hits from Elfman who had Sand immunity and Elfman was shown to hit harder than a Demo-fist as he actually hurt Madmole with power unlike Demo-fist.

Ajeel bodied Erza far more than Kiria and would have beaten her in a 1v1 in every encounter.

So you're saying it's more plausible that each of these fodder are stronger than Alvarez Erza??? It's was made clear that Wall analyzed the spell and intervened or there is a capacity limit. It's moot either way as Erza was effected by Macro and couldn't do anything.

By her own statement that she ate all their souls.

How does this not make any sense when Makarov was the measuring stick to the S12s MP and Mira did something his MP nor a regular S12s could do which was scare J/H?

It shows her high offensive power with just flexing her power and there hasn't been a mage in FT who couldn't take their own power to the face either lol.

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JDogg

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@ragegod: Belserion sword isn't Benzisakura and the sword is meaningless as she shown the capacity to hurt Laxus w/o an enchanted sword. She went into a garbo armor which it's lightning counterpart was shredded in one hit by Laxus lol. That just shows how weak those armors are.

Erza did all those enchantments herself therefore it's her own power. Kiria acknowledge Erza is a monster like Laxus and was thankful they double KOed each other.

You should look further as the armor itself wasn't shredded and multiple swords still hit as shown in the aftermath of the clash. Her swords matched his RL as both took damage from the clash. Her enchanted swords don't give her a stat boost and neother does DSeal. Erza vs Laxus was a complete 1v1.

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JDogg

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@grandtoaa:

It is her strongest as it is the armor that takes the most put of her and only reserved as a finishing attack. The ability to dispel magic is far greater than any other ability attached to her other armors or swords. Red Pants is still below her Nakagami and Heaven's Wheel has replaced Fairy Amradura has the armor that is as strong as her Red Pants. Yeah, Laxus is a tank, but it's not like Erza went lethal and went for a sword to the throat either. They are equals which was shown in a 1v1 fight between them.

Again, Mira's durability isn't trash. Secondly her best feats are fighting and beating Jacob in Base and BSS. Being capable of her Madmole which Demo-fist was unable to do and stalemating Skullion who oneshotted DeS Gray while only in BSS which is her weakest soul. It's also a testament to her durability as Gray was oneshotted by Skullion while Mira in BSS was not and we know she was hit by his attacks as she was injured after the fight.

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TheVivas

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@jdogg: They do. Ajeel has shown nothing to suggest he wouldn’t have died to Laxus’s attack, so I don’t know where you’re getting that from.

How does Wahl become “inherently” weak to lightning, let alone “again”?

Ajeel bodied Erza more than Kyria did because Brandish’s little servant (can’t remember his name and don’t want to look it up) was cancelling her magic out, which is why her requip stopped working. That’s what allowed Ajeel to catch her in the first place.

Nowhere in their fight did we see or can we even infer that Elfman was able to hurt Madmole, all we see are some scuff marks on his body, which doesn’t mean he was in pain from Elfman’s punches. Elfman being stronger than a Demolition Fist of Natsu also doesn’t make sense, so this scaling chain you thought of for Ajeel completely falls apart.

Where did I say each fodder Alzarez is stronger or has more willpower than Erza? It doesn’t matter what Wahl did unless you can get me actual confirmation that he helped neg Macro’s abilities to save some of his men.

Now show me Mira using all of those abilities and how strong they are.

Cause scaring Juliet and the other girl isn’t impressive? And MP in Fairy Tail isn’t a concrete way to determine someone’s strength? And it’s not as clear cut as power levels in other verses? It’s not that hard to understand.

So you’re saying that Mira’s feat of vaporizing a sea transfers over to her durability because reasons. Got it.

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El_mago

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possibly erza or either mira

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JDogg

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@thevivas: Bcs Ajeel took hits from Elfman who beat up a dude who no sold a Demolition fist lol.

Wall is inherently weak to lightning which is why he created an immunity to it. Laxus then bypasses that immunity with Red Lightning which means Wall's weakness to lightning is brought back into play.

No, it wasn't due to Marin lol. Ajeel was toying with her at that point. He bodied her easily once he activated Sand World and she had her reequip and Natsu's distraction at that point which landed her a major hit at that point.

He was and it was stated they were at a stalemate. Those "scuff" marks are indicators of beat up markers. Madmole was shown to be hurt which he was not after getting hit head on with a Demo-fist. Why doesn't it? Elfman was one the people to heavily train after 1 year timeskip and his feats against Ajeel align with his feats against Madmole. This goes along with Lucy continously saying Elfman needs to stop being underestimated.

Then how do you think the servants bypassed the ability? It wasn't power unless each of the fodder are now more overpowered than Tartarus Erza lol.

We know she has all the abilities lol. Why would she need to use them? It's lile saying Bloodmam needed to show all the Tartarus abilities to says he has them.

But it is as they weren't shown to be scared by other powerful adversaries. I never said MP was the be all and end all, but superior MP goes a long way in a fight. Mira's MP is definitely higher than Erza's.

Since when has an FT member ever been KOed by their own attack let alone just a flex of their own magic?

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TheVivas

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@jdogg: “Bcs Ajeel took hits from Elfman who beat up a dude who no sold a Demolition fist lol.”

He never beat up Madmole. He hit Madmole (and hurt his hand just like Natsu), which is why he had those scuff marks, but he never “beat” him up. Madmole wasn’t in any pain or tired or anything when they retreated, meanwhile Mira doubted that her and Elfman would even win.

“Wall is inherently weak to lightning which is why he created an immunity to it. Laxus then bypasses that immunity with Red Lightning which means Wall's weakness to lightning is brought back into play.”

So your original point of “Laxus has never oneshot a Spriggan 12 member” is not only false, but we’re now jumping through hoops to describe and try to throw away the fact that he *did* oneshot a Spriggan 12 member?

“No, it wasn't due to Marin lol.”

It very clearly was. Lucy knocks out Merrin and says “Now I can use Celestial Spitit Magic” and once he’s shown to be unconscious, Erza is suddenly able to use her requip again.

https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-457-page-11.html

https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-457-page-12.html

https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/Fairy-Tail-chapter-457-page-13.html

It can’t be any more clear that he was cancelling out her requip, and this isn’t even getting into the idea that Ajeel is a harder match up no for her than Kyria, so trying to scale them based on their fights against Erza was flawed to begin with.

“He was and it was stated they were at a stalemate. Those "scuff" marks are indicators of beat up markers. Madmole was shown to be hurt which he was not after getting hit head on with a Demo-fist.”

He wasn’t hurt at all. I just skimmed through the entire fight and nowhere is he hurt.

“Elfman was one the people to heavily train after 1 year timeskip and his feats against Ajeel align with his feats against Madmole. This goes along with Lucy continously saying Elfman needs to stop being underestimated.”

1) Doesn’t matter if he kept training, he’s still not > Natsu.

2) His feats against Ajeel *do not* align with his feats against Madmole, since one was PIS and the other is you claiming he hurt Madmole without any actual evidence.

3) It doesn’t matter what Lucy says about him.

“Then how do you think the servants bypassed the ability? It wasn't power unless each of the fodder are now more overpowered than Tartarus Erza lol.”

Are you asking me to provide my own headcanon to counter your headcanon?

“We know she has all the abilities lol. Why would she need to use them? It's lile saying Bloodmam needed to show all the Tartarus abilities to says he has them.”

Bad example because he actually did use all of the abilities.

“But it is as they weren't shown to be scared by other powerful adversaries. I never said MP was the be all and end all, but superior MP goes a long way in a fight. Mira's MP is definitely higher than Erza's.”

Who cares who they’re scared of? Elfman was scared of Bacchus, Makarov was scared of Brandish, people being afraid of one person’s magical power doesn’t mean that person is stronger than another person. Perfect example being Laxus and Jura.

And Mira’s MP is definitely higher than Erza’s because.....reasons. Great argument.

“Since when has an FT member ever been KOed by their own attack let alone just a flex of their own magic?”

Since when is this any kind of legitimate argument for why DC should scale to durability? Are you going to bring any actual durability feats for Mira, or just keep saying she evaporated a sea with a flex?

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EmmaFrostXmen

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Still Mira although they are definitely comparable

Mira outperformed Erza in their respective fights with Azuma therefore showing her superiority

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WargodCalypso

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Mira is stronger and always have been stronger than Erza

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GrandTOAA

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@wargodcalypso: I doubt Mira would fare better against Laxus than Erza did

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GrandTOAA

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@emmafrostxmen: How did you come to such a conclusion when Erza has beaten stronger opponents than a Mirajane and amrqjqnenis always getting embarrassed?

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GrandTOAA

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@emmafrostxmen: How did you come to such a conclusion when Erza has beaten stronger opponents than a Mirajane and Mirajane is always getting embarrassed?

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@grandtoaa: I can’t see Erza replicating Mira’s feat against Gray. Gray fought Mira when she was injured enough for them to explicitly say she was weakened, only using her weakest Satan Soul, and at a magical disadvantage (demon take over vs Grays demon slayer magic). And yet she still gave Gray an extreme difficulty fight and he was made fun of for almost losing to a hurt opponent. To add onto that Mira was fighting Skullion (the guy that one shot Gray)

Mira also did way better against Azuma than Erza

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Floridaman29

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This honestly could go either way, they both rival each other in terms of power and are roughly equal.

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CocaColaMan

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@emmafrostxmen:

I can’t see Erza replicating Mira’s feat against Gray. Gray fought Mira when she was injured enough for them to explicitly say she was weakened, only using her weakest Satan Soul, and at a magical disadvantage (demon take over vs Grays demon slayer magic). And yet she still gave Gray an extreme difficulty fight and he was made fun of for almost losing to a hurt opponent. To add onto that Mira was fighting Skullion (the guy that one shot Gray)

An injured, crying Erza caught a punch from END and Gray despite not being anywhere to be seen beforehand. Gray was bloodlusted and END was basically an amped, bloodlusted Natsu. A bloodlusted MC in this series is going to be a lot stronger than they'd be fighting their friends, so Erza did this to a stronger Gray AND Natsu. It is very probably she could replicate Mira's feat.

Mira also did way better against Azuma than Erza

It's been a while, but Erza won if I'm not mistaken, and that while she had no MP from the Tree being torn down. Plus, this was pre-timeskip, and Erza has trained a lot since then.

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Etherious

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Erza mid-diff and could low-diff if she's fighting seriously.

Mira has absolutely no feats who put her on Erza level from Alvarez Arc, LET ALONE current Erza who has Ice Demon sword who would murder Mira.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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@cocacolaman: I do not think Erza could ever replicate Mira’s feat against Gray. She was hurt, fatigued, running low on MP (as Satan Soul drains her quickly), using a demonic take over against a person who uses demon slayer magic, and again she was using her weakest form. This fight indicates that if Mira was healthy, and using her stronger forms that are several times stronger than her base Satan Soul she would borderline stomp Gray, and that is proved by Mira being capable of stalemating Skullion in her weakest form.

Erza did win, but she performed worse against him. She needed her friends spirits to save her and give her enough energy to keep going.

Mira was winning against Azuma the entire fight in her weakest form, and she only gave up because she couldn’t KO him in the time limit she had

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GrandTOAA

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@floridaman29: But Erza has endured far more than Mirajane can take

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Almount

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I don't understand why Mira can't just use Macro on all of Erza's weapons and equipment taking away Erza's ability to fight.