Miraak First Dragonborn v Lord Voldemort

Should be fun ;)

Battle takes place in a neutral Land but both are at their peak in powers.

Both characters get full info on each other & wot they can do.

Miraak & Voldemort have their usual gear for this encounter.

Fighters start 200 yards apart.

Rules-No BFR or Time Travel allowed.

Win by Death, KO (at least 5 minutes out cold) or Surrender.

Who Wins?

V

Dragonborn's standard equipment? And level and stuff should be mentioned. A magic dragonborn should easily solo this.

Miraak would probably make a soup out of him. His voice is strong enough to nearly obliderate hell itself.

its all there in the link :)

At this range, I think Voldemort can win. I don't remember the Dragonborn doing anything at this great of a range. Voldemort has at least one ranged feat.

Not quiet as he got his Ass handed to him by Hermaeus Mora.

Hermaeus Mora is a Daedric Prince, pretty much a god. And yes, according to lore Miraak nearly obliderated hell with his thuum.

Im playing the Devils advocate here so im going to be bringing up bad points for both characters here if need be ;)

@the_red_viper:

Voldemort casts Langlock or Cantis.

Miraak has been around since the Mythic Era. It took the Dragons burning his temple and several other Dragon Priests to force him back, where he would retreat into Apocrypha using a Black Book of Hermaeus Mora.

Miraak has the power to dominate and command both Man, Mer and Dragons with the "Bend Will" Shout, and has derived secrets and power from Apocrypha since before the beginning of the first era. And in the 201st yr of the 4th Era, he had the power to exert his influence across the realms, and assert control over the minds of the citizens of Solstheim. Only the Skaal could resist through the creation of a barrier using ancient powers that connected them to the Land and the Wilds through the All-Maker.

I don't think Miraak demonstrated enough skill in the time he had on screen to suggest that he can bet Voldemort, although his staff and sword make it interesting.

Still I'd give Voldemort the slight edge.

OKAY where did you read that? An in-game book? I can't find any lore to read anywhere/

@tparks Nice Vid :)

Heres another.

@reikai: Clearly the IP has a ton of lore behind it and yet...there doesn't seem to be many books....sad.

Miraak uses whirlwind sprint and shoves his staff up Voldemort's scrawny a-hole.

I don't remember, probably somewhere on the interwebz. Can you cofirm @reikai?

@wolfrazer: I get the feeling once ESO is launched we'll see more TES novels. Until then all we have is what exists now and what books are found within the games themselves. There are more than 800 books to be found within Skyrim and Solstheim.

And while I do not know about the whole "almost destroying hell" part, we do know that a battle between Miraak and Vahlok the Jailer, resulted in the separation of Solstheim from the continent of Tamriel, in that their warring was so fierce it split the landscape.

@the_red_viper:

Voldemort has wards that are on all day, 'erry day which negate kinetic motion and are strong enough to disintegrate human bodies to nothingness if they cross.

Also wizards have always easily tanked bullets and have incredible durability, lol.

Not sure how much meaning that has to guys who can disintegrate people with single bolts of lightning, and who've had to contend with dragons whose bones and scales are harder than iron and steel. Which means bullets aren't hurting them either, and they didn't need magic wards to stop them.

As the lore went, the battle between Miraak and Vahlok was so devastating it tore the province of Solstheim from main continent, turning it into an island. Both of them were powerful magic users and could use Shouts. And given the story behind the conflict, would suggest they had the power to change the very landscape with their power.

Which is something that should've been noted in the last debate, since the Last Dragonborn defeated both Vahlok and Miraak separately, which would say the Dovahkiin's power rivaled both of theirs.

@reikai:

I mean, the 3 Protegos + Fianto Duri + Bubblehead negates kinetic motion and disintegrates people who try to cross it.

I was just saying Whirlwind Sprint wouldn't work, and Voldie could just Langlock him to stop him from shouting since they have full knowledge.

But since First Dragonborn also has full knowledge he'd probably just blow up wherever they were fighting and walk away.

Miraak is no ordinary human. A Dragonborn can withstand the voice of the Greybeards. A single word from any of them can kill a man with ease, and Dragonborns can withstand full sentences from them.

Miraak can use Marked for Death and Voldemort would just die slowly, and he isn't going to hit Miraak with any of his spells.

Miraak,

Bend will

both go out for coffee

Why wouldn't Miraak just blow up wherever they were fighting and walk away? o.o

seriously though, miraak said himself that he could have easily defeated Alduiin, and We ALL know about the immortal, plane of existance crossing, time traveling, dragon ressurecting, all powerful dragon alduiin. Miraak is a dragon priest and the very first dragonborn.

i can't see voldemort touching him with A full powered dragon aspect on. not to mention he'll be summoning seekers while shooting tentacles with his staff and sword

@thedarklordpandamonium: I surprised no one has even mentioned Miraaks standard equipment which absorbs magic and wraps tentacles around anyone who casts against you.

Voldemort has wards that are on all day, 'erry day which negate kinetic motion and are strong enough to disintegrate human bodies to nothingness if they cross.

Also wizards have always easily tanked bullets and have incredible durability, lol.

Any proof of permanent wards, I don't recall it ever being brought up in fact it always seemed like the best wizard would be the one that was the fastest draw.

Book 7, right before the Prince's Tale Nagini's in a warded sphere.

Also when Voldemort is fighting 3 wizards in Book 7 the floorstones in a ring around him are cracked because none of the 3 wizard's (McGon, Slug, Kingsley) could get through his shields presumably.

Though admittedly nobody ever seems to fight under Protegos for whatever reason.

@thedarklordpandamonium: Usually a combination of things does get the job done. Hence Miraak's seven worded shout that he uses to insta-kill dragons whose names he knows and takes their souls. Not something that'd likely work on Voldemort, as it was probably created, much like Dragonrend, to be used specifically against dragons.

Miraak is a Nord Dragon Priest. He doesn't drink coffee. Only mead will do!

Anyway, think the worst thing Miraak could do is knock in Dragon Aspect while Voldie is gettin his defenses ready, then just hit'em with an augmented Cyclone shout to create a massive tornado to rip him to pieces with. But at least it's not Storm Call.

That's... possible, I guess.

Anywho, yeah, Miraak wins.

@thedarklordpandamonium: I've seen someone try to use the shield charm in a thread before, they have never been on all day and have only ever shown to be reactionary and never permanent.

Dragonborn's have wards which are similar the difference being that magic cast against them is absorbed rejuvenating the warded.

I can make things move without touching them. I can make animals do what I want without training them. I can make bad things happen to people who are mean to me. I can make them hurt, if I want. Tom Riddle AKA Lord Voldemort.

@chaos_prime: "Bend Will" shout, Telekinesis spell, Destruction and Conjuration magic. Covers all of that. ^_^

I agree,

But a general question to all.Voldemort knows at least 28 Dark Spells alone but does he cast/can he cast regular spells that are taught at Hogwarts? ie-Accio the summoning spell & for example take away a vital part of kit away from Miraak?

Secondly can he summon Dark Beasts? ie-Basilisk?

Both have to speak to use their magic, but one has to hold a wand. Miraak also carries a sword and armor i think. Or was it a staff?

Voldemort doesnt & Miraak doesnt if hes not casting a shout.

Miraak has a staff,Sword & Magical Clothing.

@chaos_prime: Miraak can summon Seekers, or at least commanded them since they obeyed him and attacked the Last Dragonborn. He did have three dragons under his control as well.

Miraak could also temporarily shift dimensions during the quests if you kill a dragon outside of Apocrypha on Solstheim, and he'd jack the dragons soul away from the Last Dragonborn before fading back into Apocrypha.

Also Miraak has his mask as well, which bears his name. And the enchantments upon his gear give him a 25% magic absorption.

@chaos_prime:

According to Pottermore both Albus Dumbledore and Lord Voldemort know all the magic in the series.

Well if thats the case then Voldemort has some top tier Defensive spells aswell.

There are a few that make the victim talk nonsense so that would be a good start to stop Miraak from casting a shout.

@chaos_prime:

Langlock would be best

Well to Voldy the Dragon Language in TES would be nonsense to him. But that may not entirely work anyway. Remember the Graybeards? Everyone except Arngeir would not allow themselves to speak, not even in the common language, because their voices were too strong. Even just whispering the word "Dovahkiin" was enough to cause High Hrothgar to shake and tremble.

Going by the Lore, Miraak is more powerful than the Graybeards, and possessed Thu'um's that were unknown to all others, even the dragons. It's also possible to create new Shouts, as demonstrated by the Ancient Tongues, when they created "Dragonrend" in order to defeat Alduin. That's not to say Miraak created new Shouts, however the "Bend Will" shout may have been born of knowledge gained from Hermaeus Mora. Which would mean it's possible a Daedric Prince has the power to create Words of Power and place them within Mundus.

One thing to note though is it only takes about 2sec to complete a three-worded shout. Only about half a second for the first word by itself, which is near instantaneous. Maybe a full second for the first two words, but about 2sec for all three words combined. This is actually easily measured from the elderscrolls wiki pages as they give a recorded sample of the shout being used. It actually at best takes about 1.2-1.5sec for a full 3worded shout.

Aside from shouts, none of Miraak's spells require any vocal incantation. 90% of spells in TES don't, with the exception of lengthy rituals and incantations, and potentially New Spells that're being created and tested.

And actually on the northern coast of Solstheim you can find a mage who's gone mad and claiming he can fly with magic after reading from a "strange book", and you can watch him cast a spell that sends him flying hundreds of feet into the air. Unfortunately he probably didn't understand the instructions as he screamed and plummeted back to the ground to his death.

Wait what?

Voldemort does NOT have auto shields. Shield that negate kinetic motion? where? (you mean kinetic energy, right?) Apart from arresto momentum, Idk about such a shield (And harry still hit the ground pretty hard after arresto momentum in part 3 iirc)

And the hogwarts shield was cast by at least 3 wizards simultaneously. Not to mention book doesn't even mention it.

And wizards have NEVER tanked bullets, nor have 'incredible durability'.

A lot of proof is needed..

@princearagorn1:

Voldie has auto shields on Nagini.

Voldemort was able to break the Hogwarts shield, so logically he can put up a shield that strong.

Protego Totalum/Protego Maxima actually disintegrate people if they walk into it.

Bubblehead Charm stops air and sound particles from moving.

Book 3, Waddiwasi cast by Lupin was stated to hit with 'the Force of a Bullet' and is a prank spell that only stings wizards.

J.K. Rowling smiled knowingly when this was brought up in a Pottermore interview; there's a reason nobody uses guns to kill Voldemort.

Neville Longbottom was dropped out of a 2-story-window on his head and his magic took over and caused him to bounce

Harry Potter often suffers multi-hundred-feet falls that would pulverize people, but he only has broken bones.

@thedarklordpandamonium: Oh, so THAT'S why Bellatrix tried to kill Harry with a knife, right?

Well think about it.

Wizards already canonically tank bullets, it's something J.K. Rowling admitted to

Yet punching each other, they actually hurt each other

i.e. fist of a wizard > force of a bullet

Which means they have to be quite strong

So if Bellatrix throws a knife at Harry, boosted by her strength, it has to be deadly

Either that or Bellatrix is just batsh*t insane

@thedarklordpandamonium:

Voldemort was able to break the Hogwarts shield, so logically he can put up a shield that strong.

Logically no. It would only mean he could breach shields of equal strength to those used in Hogwarts, not that he has the skill to create shields of equal strength.

Protego Totalum/Protego Maxima actually disintegrate people if they walk into it.

I would assume people who aren't protected magically or whose protection failed under the spell, and not someone who has adequate protection and/or the ability to absorb magical energy. Regardless, TES has shown capable of disintegrating people with magic bolts and lightning based spells.

Bubblehead Charm stops air and sound particles from moving

Not certain how that'd actually work here since a Thu'um isn't just a motion of sound, but the Vital Energy of the user projected through their voice.

Book 3, Waddiwasi cast by Lupin was stated to hit with 'the Force of a Bullet' and is a prank spell that only stings wizards.

Metallic lead bullet or rubber bullet? Because rubber bullets hurt and sting like a bastich. Considering it was a 'prank' spell which means it was never intended to actually do any harm, regardless of the target. You could even shoot someone with a paint bullet and it'd hurt, but not really injure beyond a bruise.

"Force of a bullet" would not exactly mean the "lethality" of one. Which again I would attribute to the same effect as a rubber bullet.

J.K. Rowling smiled knowingly when this was brought up in a Pottermore interview; there's a reason nobody uses guns to kill Voldemort.

Because none of them are smart enough or possess the degree of stealth necessary to catch Voldy unawares and plug'im three times in the back of the head. Same reason why Troopers with blasts couldn't take Jedi most of the time unless they were overwhelmed. If you know how to get passed their precog/danger sense, you could kill them with relative ease.

Also that argument wouldn't work if he was against someone who literally used magic guns or cast spells through the use if firearms, like Kurohime and Bayonetta. Two busty babes who'd blow Voldy away with their magic-shooting guns. But that's an argument for another time.

Neville Longbottom was dropped out of a 2-story-window on his head and his magic took over and caused him to bounce

Harry Potter often suffers multi-hundred-feet falls that would pulverize people, but he only has broken bones.

I've seen people jump out of two-story windows and get nary a scratch. Falling on your head would normally hurt or kill you. Regardless, the impact force of these examples wouldn't even compare to one spell or shout from Miraak.

As already stated and noted, the battle between Miraak and Vahlok was so devastating it tore a section away from Mereth (what is no known as Skyrim), which became the island of Solstheim. Their battle raged for days, which means the separation did take some time, however still shows the devastating force behind their conflict to drive it so far from the mainland, and expresses the amount of stamina and power they both possessed to engage in conflict over a period of time.

Miraak's defeat was sometime in the Merethic Era, which was before the dawn of the Camoran Dynasty which began the First Year of the First Era following the end of the Merethic Era. The timeline isn't entirely clear, however Miraak may have been stuck in Apocrypha for between 4-6thousand years, give or take a few centuries.

OP this is an awesome thread. Dam its hard to say, Miraak has the power of the forbidden knowledge, that might outshine Voldemorts bullet proof resistance feats. I'm still open to opinions but as of know IMO the Dragonborn has the edge because he has Hermaeus Moras eternal knowledge.

@reikai:

Lol I know Miraak would pwn Voldemort, man. He'd just disintegrate him with a word.

@thedarklordpandamonium:

Yes, on nagini. I don't remember him walking around in dispel bound..

Breaking a shield doesn't mean you can have a shield that strong.

I don't recall any wizard disintegrating people in the books.. Not to mention no one with magic resistance was ever hit by it..

Bubblehead charm was used to provide fresh air: when fred and george's riot got the dung bombs in fashion.. and to breath underwater (cedric, part 4 iirc)

Yes, luke/anakins (I don't recall which exactly) sword strikes were said to be with the "force of a meteor". Are they? Hell no.

Also, it was only used on peeves, who is a ghost, with a chewing gum for god's sake. Not like he's going to die from it.

Not just neville, magic plays such unconscious roles in many untrained wizards. This does not occur when the wizard is trained. Which is why harry's breaking voldemort's wand unconsciously was so surprising:

Neville, was a kid at that time, and it was a test from his uncle. It didn't help him much when he broke his wrist from a fall, did it?

Next: The fall from a class room could've killed snape:

When harry fell down, dumbledore used the a.m. spell. That decreased his velocity. The others thought fall killed him:

Even after slowing down, most people (wizards) thought harry might've died. From about fifty feet, after freaking 'dumbledore' used the spell. Meaning: The spell slows things down to a certain extent. Will it stop a bullet? Seems unlikely. And harry not so omgdurable.

And harry is a walking plot device. Do you seriously think he'd die in the first parts by falling off a broom? 0_0

So No. Saying harry potter characters have extra durability and reflexes destroys the spirit of the seris. The only ones shown to have incredible reflexes are dumbledore and voldemort (when serious), both were shown to move so fast that harry barely followed them. That I'm freely ready to admit.

And 'smiling knowingly?'.. what's that's supposed to do? She is acknowledging a plot hole???

Sorry it took me a while, and that it's so long... A bit sleepy..

Btw,

I was really looking forward to rebuttals like these from you in the cav.. Not that you didn't do well, but you let a lot of opportunities pass imo..

(or perhaps I should stop giving unasked advice?)

@thedarklordpandamonium said:

Miraak is a firin his Lasorz.

@princearagorn1:

Fair enough, I already conceded that Voldie might not have permanent shields earlier.

As for the bullets...J.K. Rowling has said on multiple occasions it's not just as simple as shooting Voldemort. Peeves doesn't even notice chandeliers falling on him or books being thrown at him, yet the Waddiwasi spell makes him shoot back.

Voldemort also used this spell with shards of glass.

Wizards have extended durability. Easy.

Also, what Harry thinks is kind of irrelevant. If Harry's survived falls waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay higher than Snape's, how would Snape die?

The others thought the fall killed him because of the Dementors having an effect on Harry, go back and read the chapter. He was affected by the Dementors coming on the pitch.

@thedarklordpandamonium: Yes, because he's incredibly fast, and faster on the draw than a standard soldier.

And peeves doesn't notice chandeliers falling on him?

Voldemort might've used the spell on shards of glass. And that didn't even happen in the books. Nor did it look anywhere close to bullets.

No. They don't. Dementors aren't shown to kill from that kind of distance. The 'everyone' included higher students, and even hermoine, who knows a lot. It'd be extremely uncharacteristic of her to assume harry died from seeing dementors (And dementors reduce durability? where are you getting that?). one of the twins even specially mentioned the height of the fall as I've shown. Harry also gets his hand cut from broken mirrors ,like any other normal person. And harry didn't survive falls 'waaayyyy higher than snape's '. He was slowed down before that. And if that was the case, minerva would've said "A fall from this height wouldn't kill him." She says "he has his wand, unlike dumbledore", implying he will use something, and snape even uses some trick to fly away. Why would he need wand if he's so durable? And why'd dumbledore slow harry down in that case?

So: It's: harry falling 50 feet and people thinking he died, including hermoine. Snape falling from a window and harry thinking he's dead. And in part one, harry was glad that the plant cushioned his fall.

And if harry had the kind of strength (wizards fist>bullet), vernon wouldn't be able to manhandle him.

Nope. They're not superhuman in any way.