I love them both and because of this i can not decide...someone please tell me the truth...even though it will kill me in the end
area: the 42nd street subway(NY baby^^) unpopulated
all powers and gadgets intact, full health, ...no prep they bumped into each other and refused to say sorry
Midnighter would one shot Wolverine
Midnighter takes this one.
Midnighter.
It's not a tough fight to pick. Midnighter has waaay too many advantages over Wolverine." @Decoy Elite: i know i know i know..its just that i was having a internal conflict.... and i need this to settled third party-ily (o.0) "
Wolverine would win. Easily. Midnighter doesn't have the damage output to put Wolverine down, and he doesn't have the damage soak to stand up to Wolverine's offensive capabilities. It takes more than beating a bunch of Z-Stringer parodies to be a match for someone like Wolverine, and Midnighter's class 2 strength, barely superhuman speed, tame healing factor and a battle computer that has never given him a win over anyone of merit isn't nearly enough.
Wolverine would win. Easily. Midnighter doesn't have the damage output to put Wolverine down (Like Mr. X didn't?), and he doesn't have the damage soak to stand up to Wolverine's offensive capabilities(Like Mr. X didn't?). It takes more than beating a bunch of Z-Stringer parodies to be a match for someone like Wolverine, and Midnighter's class 2 strength (Greater than Mr.X's), barely superhuman speed (Greater than Mr.X's), tame healing factor (Greater than Mr.X's) and a battle computer that has never given him a win over anyone of merit isn't nearly enough.
" @thegentlemanrogue:
I wish I were wise enough not to respond to bait cuz I know I'll regret this. Maybe next time.Even if you lower Midnighter's computer and physical abilities (because make no mistake, you are downplaying his abilities) to Mr. X's level, he would still have enough to win this fight just like Mr. X did and for much the same reasons. Even the argument that he doesn't fight anyone of value can be tossed away. Last time you came around saying he hadn't fought anyone of value we looked at Hawksmoor, Grifter, Zealot and Nemesis. Midnighter has fought Hawksmoor (nearly, if not actually, a +100 tonner with spider-man-like speed and agility and undeniably superhuman durability) evenly on the Carrier and even for a little while on Earth. Of Midnighter's two fights with Grifter, in the one that wasn't from the beginning of their team-up comic, Midnighter all but killed him with no effort. Midnighter stalemated Zealot, a superhuman warrior with 10,000 years of combat experience and better move reading that Batgirl (I say stalemate but I not-so-secretly believe he won seeing as the fight ended up with him holding her sword at her throat). He lost his fight with Nemesis, but she's Zealot plus more move reading and swords that cut through anything and Midnighter suggested that Hawksmoor got in his way during the fight not to mention the neurological agent in play. He's also beaten himself, Winter, Hellstrike and at least two other trained members of Stormwatch all in the same day. Both characters are of that level where they do stupid things like fight bricks and have the speed, strength, durability, healing and whatever else it takes to not make that absurd, but I think Midnighter's abilities give him an advantage in this fight. "
Wolverine would win. Easily. Midnighter doesn't have the damage output to put Wolverine down (Like Mr. X didn't?), and he doesn't have the damage soak to stand up to Wolverine's offensive capabilities(Like Mr. X didn't?). It takes more than beating a bunch of Z-Stringer parodies to be a match for someone like Wolverine, and Midnighter's class 2 strength (Greater than Mr.X's), barely superhuman speed (Greater than Mr.X's), tame healing factor (Greater than Mr.X's) and a battle computer that has never given him a win over anyone of merit isn't nearly enough.
" @thegentlemanrogue:Mr. X's victory was largely a trope of a new character initially beating an established character to artificially pad a non-existent resume and make said character seem formidable. But X does at least seem to have legitate super speed, certainly his showings against Taskmaster and Black Widow have speed feats superior to anything Midnighter has done. Also X knows what an opponent is going to do, not a million different things that might happen. X's ability is always useful, where as Midnighter has been in situations where he couldn't come up with a single winning scenario.
I wish I were wise enough not to respond to bait cuz I know I'll regret this. Maybe next time.Even if you lower Midnighter's computer and physical abilities (because make no mistake, you are downplaying his abilities) to Mr. X's level, he would still have enough to win this fight just like Mr. X did and for much the same reasons. Even the argument that he doesn't fight anyone of value can be tossed away. Last time you came around saying he hadn't fought anyone of value we looked at Hawksmoor, Grifter, Zealot and Nemesis. Midnighter has fought Hawksmoor (nearly, if not actually, a +100 tonner with spider-man-like speed and agility and undeniably superhuman durability) evenly on the Carrier and even for a little while on Earth. Of Midnighter's two fights with Grifter, in the one that wasn't from the beginning of their team-up comic, Midnighter all but killed him with no effort. Midnighter stalemated Zealot, a superhuman warrior with 10,000 years of combat experience and better move reading that Batgirl (I say stalemate but I not-so-secretly believe he won seeing as the fight ended up with him holding her sword at her throat). He lost his fight with Nemesis, but she's Zealot plus more move reading and swords that cut through anything and Midnighter suggested that Hawksmoor got in his way during the fight not to mention the neurological agent in play. He's also beaten himself, Winter, Hellstrike and at least two other trained members of Stormwatch all in the same day. Both characters are of that level where they do stupid things like fight bricks and have the speed, strength, durability, healing and whatever else it takes to not make that absurd, but I think Midnighter's abilities give him an advantage in this fight. "
Wolverine would win. Easily. Midnighter doesn't have the damage output to put Wolverine down (Like Mr. X didn't?), and he doesn't have the damage soak to stand up to Wolverine's offensive capabilities(Like Mr. X didn't?). It takes more than beating a bunch of Z-Stringer parodies to be a match for someone like Wolverine, and Midnighter's class 2 strength (Greater than Mr.X's), barely superhuman speed (Greater than Mr.X's), tame healing factor (Greater than Mr.X's) and a battle computer that has never given him a win over anyone of merit isn't nearly enough.
" @tenavis: Nah wolverine won't make this interesting at all, he doesn't have the stats to give him a good fight. Before he even thinks of a move Midnighter will be ready for it. This is a stomp. "
Wolverine has better considerably better strength and speed feats than Midnighter, and Midighter's battle computer couldn't even give him a single win against Kev's three SAS friends..." @tenavis: Nah wolverine won't make this interesting at all, he doesn't have the stats to give him a good fight. Before he even thinks of a move Midnighter will be ready for it. This is a stomp. "
Midnighter
I don't have my comic collection with me at University, and I only have a 20 gig bandwidth so I can't really afford to download comics to find individual examples or scans, but I will do my best to recall from memory where it happened as best as I can." @thegentlemanrogue: Just like there's an explanation for Mr. X beating Wolverine, there are plenty of explanations for Midnighter not killing established WSU characters that he fights. The only time he was allowed to (because the universe would be reset shortly so deaths didn't matter), he did. Mr. X doesn't have superspeed. He's listed as human and his run in with Quicksilver was just more evidence. His bullet parrying was impressive, but Midnighter has done similar (though not with as detailed art) and greater (moving faster than superhumans could process or react to and killing speedsters more than once, but this is all stuff we've gone over before that you disagree with). Midnighter's abilities allow him to do more than just know lots of things that could happen, he's shown that he can know exactly what someone will do (not just what they might) before they do it and has also demonstrated that by predicting events that have next to no chance of happening so were not likely to. Just because there are no ways for Midnighter to win in a situation (though I'd like to see which instances you're referring to) doesn't mean his computer isn't working, just that there are no ways to win. A monster about to step on Mr. X would result in him knowing he was about to get stepped on but not having any way to deal with it. Wolverine is not a problem there is no way to deal with, as Mr. X and many others have shown. Other people beating Midnighter doesn't mean Wolverine can unless he's bringing more to the table than they do. Wolverine is not equal to Zealot or Nemesis in terms of skill. Even with his regular retraining by various teachers, he's not the equal to characters that have spent more than 10,000 years fighting. You even admit he doesn't match them in strength as well. Grifter can think what he wants, but with a shuriken in his spine in two places, he wasn't doing anything. And I still don't get why you could think losing to Hawksmoor is a negative. You may not think he's a 100 tonner, but in a weakened state and cut off from much of his powers, he threw a ~40 ton object hundreds (thousands?) of feet into the air. That would require significantly more than 40 tons of strength and at full strength he would have much more than that. I honestly don't recall the Freefall fight, but I'm not surprised that he can't beat someone that can effortlessly manipulate gravity and has even made a black hole. I'm pretty sure I asked you last time you said it, but where did it say that the Coda specifically created a form of fighting for communicating? The way I recall it (and I think I posted scans) it was more like they can communicate with fighting because its so much a part of what they are that it's like a language. Seemed more like a closeness with it that lets them understand its intricacies, not a purposefully developed created solely to be a secret mode of communication. I asked you a couple questions in there so if you could answer those that would be cool, but I know you'll never change your mind about Wolverine evenly possibly losing to Midnighter (I can't blame you, continue to follow your heart) so I'm not really going to bother with the rest of it. (Or I'll try not to, I'm really easy sometimes.) "
Midnighter easily
" Midnighter easily "
Midnighter literally has no chance of beating Wolverine. Even giving Midnighter the benefit of the doubt and saying he is Wolverine's equal physically - which he isn't - the fact of the matter is that he doesn't have the durability or healing capabilities to hang with Wolverine's damage output. Midnighter would need to be able to fight Wolverine for a sustained amount of time without getting hit, and that isn't something he has shown he is a capable of based on his fights with other heroes. Wolverine could and would take Midnighter's best shots with a smile on face and a jaunty tune in his heart, if Midnighter takes Wolverine's best shot he will fold like a lawn chair. Pretty simple.
" @thegentlemanrogue: Stop using PIS feats. I can also say that Wolverine was KO-ed by a deer, it's still PIS. Midnighter has defeated speedsters, Apollo, and lots of characters that are out of wolverines league. And where did you get that out of billions of scenarios that go through his mind, he gets four wins? And no, a well placed blow wouldn't beat Midnighter, because he has a healing factor that is possibly only slightly inferior to Wolverines. And logically Wolverine should not lay a hand on Midnighter if he doesn't want to, because every move Wolverine makes would be anticipated by him, and could be countered with his superior stats. "Funny thing is he'll talk about fighting canon fodder but then use feats of characters he likes fighting canon fodder and pass it off as a viable argument, you will never Eeeever here a fair an unbias argument from Genetlemenrogue, its pretty much impossible
" Midnighter literally has no chance of beating Wolverine. Even giving Midnighter the benefit of the doubt and saying he is Wolverine's equal physically - which he isn't - the fact of the matter is that he doesn't have the durability or healing capabilities to hang with Wolverine's damage output. Midnighter would need to be able to fight Wolverine for a sustained amount of time without getting hit, and that isn't something he has shown he is a capable of based on his fights with other heroes. Wolverine could and would take Midnighter's best shots with a smile on face and a jaunty tune in his heart, if Midnighter takes Wolverine's best shot he will fold like a lawn chair. Pretty simple. "Do you know anything about Midnighter at all?
" @Tesseract said:Do you have any examples you'd like to drop or would you prefer to continue talking out of your ass?" @thegentlemanrogue: Stop using PIS feats. I can also say that Wolverine was KO-ed by a deer, it's still PIS. Midnighter has defeated speedsters, Apollo, and lots of characters that are out of wolverines league. And where did you get that out of billions of scenarios that go through his mind, he gets four wins? And no, a well placed blow wouldn't beat Midnighter, because he has a healing factor that is possibly only slightly inferior to Wolverines. And logically Wolverine should not lay a hand on Midnighter if he doesn't want to, because every move Wolverine makes would be anticipated by him, and could be countered with his superior stats. "Funny thing is he'll talk about fighting canon fodder but then use feats of characters he likes fighting canon fodder and pass it off as a viable argument, you will never Eeeever here a fair an unbias argument from Genetlemenrogue, its pretty much impossible "
Most of the people squawking their one word answers in this thread don't even seem to be aware of half of the stuff I bring up about Midnighter or Wildstorm characters ever happened. No, it's not that I don't know anything about Midnighter, it's that unlike the rest of you I actually know what he has done in all the issues that didn't involve him kicking a missile..." @thegentlemanrogue said:
Do you know anything about Midnighter at all? "" Midnighter literally has no chance of beating Wolverine. Even giving Midnighter the benefit of the doubt and saying he is Wolverine's equal physically - which he isn't - the fact of the matter is that he doesn't have the durability or healing capabilities to hang with Wolverine's damage output. Midnighter would need to be able to fight Wolverine for a sustained amount of time without getting hit, and that isn't something he has shown he is a capable of based on his fights with other heroes. Wolverine could and would take Midnighter's best shots with a smile on face and a jaunty tune in his heart, if Midnighter takes Wolverine's best shot he will fold like a lawn chair. Pretty simple. "
What I know is nothing you said there is true. Midnighter's best strength feat is ripping up rail road tracks. Among other things Wolverine has held an elevator with one arm and climbed a mountain with a concert grand piano on his back. Midnighter's has hardly any quantifiable speed feats. He close-lined Impetus and "blitzed" a Gamorra soldier. Big deal. Impetus was a brainless zombie who has been killed by Swift and Gamorra soldiers have flight speed, not superhuman combat speed. His best speed feat is dodging a bullet or catching a cross bow bolt, nothing that compares to Wolverine. Wolverine's combat reflexes were stated to be .038. That means he can go from neutral to a full extended punch 8 times faster than the average human's finger tip reaction time. Equal or greater healing factor? That is most off base you have been so far, and trust me that is saying something. Midnighter's healing factor isn't a 100th of Wolverine's. A broken neck put him down.... Wolverine has had all off his bones and organs broken simultaneously and he healed the second the car drove over him. He has two hearts and losing one was detrimental... Wolverine has regrown his heart in three panels without being koed, and on another occasion has his heart ribbed out an eaten... and he still finished the fight, killing the guy who did it. Midnighter has never been "torn to shred with bullets" and healed up, Wolverine has ripped off limbs as well.... so has Elektra, Elsa Bloodstone, Blade ect ect ect ect ect not exactly something extraordinary, and as impressive as Midnighter killing no body canon fodder is, it doesn't really help his case at all." @thegentlemanrogue: Than you would know that Midnighter is Stronger and Faster than Wolverine has an equal or greater healing factor two hearts to perform even better faster and longer and his Battle Computer so he could have the whole fight without being hit. Midnighter can be torn to shreds with bullets and heal up and rip spines right out of a persons back and take out an entire building of troops without being hit "
His best speed feat is dodging a bullet or catching a cross bow bolt, nothing that compares to Wolverine. Wolverine's combat reflexes were stated to be .038. That means he can go from neutral to a full extended punch 8 times faster than the average human's finger tip reaction time.Muhammad Ali's reaction time with a chambered jab in his prime was 19/100ths of a second, & his jab speed & power is why he was World Champ. The only other fighter with a comparable jab was Jack Dempsey & that's because his was more versatile and he was a bit stronger. Bruce Lee's alleged punching speed (from the hip/at rest) was just 5/100th sec. That means that Wolverine, with significantly more muscle mass and a metal lined skeleton, is faster than Bruce Lee at his prime. VERY FAST.
"Midnighter got this... "
" @thegentlemanrogue: Midnighter is an expert of decapitation my brother. wolvie is toast here "So is Wolverine... but unlike Midnighter he also happens to have an Adamantium skeleton that will prevent decapitating.
dang... u guys no ya stuff. im goin wit midnighter but im definitely listening to what u all have to say cause i dont know enough about midnighter..
I would go for Midnighter based on what I have seen of him and a lot of claim on him within comics. I have all material with him in it minus a few issues here and there and what thegentlemanrogue is saying is pretty accurate and he has definently read his WSU but I still lean towards Midnighter........
@thegentlemanrogue:
I Would have never even considered Wolverine but you have made some very interesting and strong points......hmm...Jake needs to get back in here lol
I love Wildstorm. Other than crappy Gears of War video game tie ins I have probably read everything the imprint has ever published. Planetary? Greatest comic run ever. Travis Charest run as penciler on Wildcats? Get out of her man, too awesome for words. I love Wildstorm as much as the next guy, probably more, but I don't know what is going on on Comic Vine. There are threads where the majority of people believe that Midnighter could solo the New Avengers. It is insanity. Seriously, sit down and ask your self what has Midnighter actually done? When has Midnighter ever demonstrated the damage output necessary to put Wolverine down for the count? When has he ever demonstrated the durability or healing needed to seriously contend with Wolverine's damage output. He rips of limbs and punches through people. Great... so has Elsa Bloodstone... so has Elektra.... hell so has Wolverine. Midnighter is a class 2 fighter with barely superhuman speed and a mild healing factor. His battle computer has never afforded him a conclusive win over any of the established fighters in the WSU... but he is going to come into this fight and "one shot" Wolverine without getting hit himself? I'm sorry but that stance doesn't even remotely jive with Midnighter's canon. Midnighter and Wolverine are going to go shot for shot, and the fact of the mater is that Midnighter doesn't have the stamina or healing capabilities to come out on top... not even close.
" I love Wildstorm. Other than crappy Gears of War video game tie ins I have probably read everything the imprint has ever published. Planetary? Greatest comic run ever. Travis Charest run as penciler on Wildcats? Get out of her man, too awesome for words. I love Wildstorm as much as the next guy, probably more, but I don't know what is going on on Comic Vine. There are threads where the majority of people believe that Midnighter could solo the New Avengers. It is insanity. Seriously, sit down and ask your self what has Midnighter actually done? When has Midnighter ever demonstrated the damage output necessary to put Wolverine down for the count? When has he ever demonstrated the durability or healing needed to seriously contend with Wolverine's damage output. He rips of limbs and punches through people. Great... so has Elsa Bloodstone... so has Elektra.... hell so has Wolverine. Midnighter is a class 2 fighter with barely superhuman speed and a mild healing factor. His battle computer has never afforded him a conclusive win over any of the established fighters in the WSU... but he is going to come into this fight and "one shot" Wolverine without getting hit himself? I'm sorry but that stance doesn't even remotely jive with Midnighter's canon. Midnighter and Wolverine are going to go shot for shot, and the fact of the mater is that Midnighter doesn't have the stamina or healing capabilities to come out on top... not even close. "I agree. Midnighter is a gimmick. & that fight computer crap is just silly.
this. all of this." I love Wildstorm. Other than crappy Gears of War video game tie ins I have probably read everything the imprint has ever published. Planetary? Greatest comic run ever. Travis Charest run as penciler on Wildcats? Get out of her man, too awesome for words. I love Wildstorm as much as the next guy, probably more, but I don't know what is going on on Comic Vine. There are threads where the majority of people believe that Midnighter could solo the New Avengers. It is insanity. Seriously, sit down and ask your self what has Midnighter actually done? When has Midnighter ever demonstrated the damage output necessary to put Wolverine down for the count? When has he ever demonstrated the durability or healing needed to seriously contend with Wolverine's damage output. He rips of limbs and punches through people. Great... so has Elsa Bloodstone... so has Elektra.... hell so has Wolverine. Midnighter is a class 2 fighter with barely superhuman speed and a mild healing factor. His battle computer has never afforded him a conclusive win over any of the established fighters in the WSU... but he is going to come into this fight and "one shot" Wolverine without getting hit himself? I'm sorry but that stance doesn't even remotely jive with Midnighter's canon. Midnighter and Wolverine are going to go shot for shot, and the fact of the mater is that Midnighter doesn't have the stamina or healing capabilities to come out on top... not even close. "
It doesn't matter how badass Wolverine is, he loses badly due to Midnighter outclassing him by a ridiculously large margin and having a better healing factor then Wolverine, not that Logan will be able to land any hits anyway.
Most people refrain form chiming in on matters they aren't knowledgeable in, so it is refreshing to see someone who doesn't let being completely uninformed prevent them from sharing their "opinion."" It doesn't matter how badass Wolverine is, he loses badly due to Midnighter outclassing him by a ridiculously large margin and having a better healing factor then Wolverine, not that Logan will be able to land any hits anyway. "
Do not talk to me. Do not talk to me ever. I do not like you so please do not even respond to any of my post. You are one of the worst debaters on Comic Vine. True. I do not really debate. Like at all. But I spend a great deal of time on this website reading. And you are one of the absolutely most biased, stubborn, if not ignorant people I have ever encountered. You know why I am saying all of this. And it has nothing to do with the above post." It doesn't matter how badass Wolverine is, he loses badly due to Midnighter outclassing him by a ridiculously large margin and having a better healing factor then Wolverine, not that Logan will be able to land any hits anyway. "
" @FinalStar86 said:Technically I didn't talk to you, I simply responded to a post.Do not talk to me. Do not talk to me ever. I do not like you so please do not even respond to any of my post. You are one of the worst debaters on Comic Vine. True. I do not really debate. Like at all. But I spend a great deal of time on this website reading. And you are one of the absolutely most biased, stubborn, if not ignorant people I have ever encountered. You know why I am saying all of this. And it has nothing to do with the above post. Just don't. I'm not even gonna respond to your attempt at my post. Because you are wrong on so many levels. If someone else wants to ask me why I think so.. I will say. But not to you. "Debating" with you is like debating with a wall. There is no point. Honestly.. you have no idea what you are talking about. Ever. "" It doesn't matter how badass Wolverine is, he loses badly due to Midnighter outclassing him by a ridiculously large margin and having a better healing factor then Wolverine, not that Logan will be able to land any hits anyway. "
LOL You're one to talk about trolling, why don't you run along to KMC or back to the Marvel forums where Elektra beats everyone and Captain America beating no named canon fodder is a legitamte feat. I think I already made it clear that no one cares about nor takes anything you say seriously, so just like SystemID, You being on this site serves no purpose and is just one more delusional troll to deal with." @FinalStar86 said:
Most people refrain form chiming in on matters they aren't knowledgeable in, so it is refreshing to see someone who doesn't let being completely uninformed prevent them from sharing their "opinion." Seriously, if you ever want to take a break from trolling, I would love to see the feats that you think are evidence of Midnighter outclassing Wolverine in any category. "" It doesn't matter how badass Wolverine is, he loses badly due to Midnighter outclassing him by a ridiculously large margin and having a better healing factor then Wolverine, not that Logan will be able to land any hits anyway. "
Please Log In to post.
Log in to comment