Midnighter vs Marvel Team

vs

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Rules

• Midnighter is Wildstorm version.
• Everyone in character
• Win by KO, death, or permanent incapacitation
• Standard versions of Marvel team
• Midnighter has his standard gear including access to Doors
• Basic knowledge. Team knows he has doors, he knows they know.
• Fight starts in secluded area

Can the team take down Midnighter?

New 52 Midnighter probably dies, but Wildstorm Midnighter wins.

@highaccuser: Even then New-52 has been doing some outrageous things. He surgically took down a speedster who claimed thanks to rough tech had speed nearly on par with "Flash", and recently made a fool out of Deadshot. Those are just two recent ones btw.

Wildstorm or New 52? Because i agree with the above, the latter version loses but the former version could win. His physicals are either on par with r superior to these opponents and, as usual, they can't compete with the battle computer.

Fair enough, I don't know too much about current Midnighter. Not sure if those feats are enough to beat Storm admittedly.

I'm almost inclined to agree with you about New-52 eventually going down. Ultimately I think Storm is a wild card, she could either be the one to KO or kill him, or if he gets close enough I could see him blitz killing her. Close Quarters combat is where Midnighter usually excels with his combat speed.

Storm stomps

Team, maybe.

Well I'm not familiar with the New-52 version. I was thinking this would be Pre-52 version in this fight. What are the differences between the two? I can change the rules to be more clear if needed.

Midnighter has fun, then wrecks

team

How?

Usually, these threads come up, and someone says that Midnighter isn't a street level character.

Neither are Spider-Man or Storm. And honestly, Wolverine probably isn't either. Chess computer might be able to beat one, but you have a chess master in Cap, someone that knows it's next moves in Spider-Man, and someone that won't play chess by the rules in Wolverine, and someone that could just blow the board into the next state in Storm. Oh, and Nightcrawler, who is maimed in the first 4 seconds.

Door.Game over

Except that he still has to get them through it, which isn't as easy as some people make it sound.

@EvilTyger: Midnighter can spawn the door directly on them by just thinking it.Midnighter can literally fight them 1v1 by Dooring everyone to different parts of the planet and mutilate them 1 by 1.Midnighter is winning without breaking a sweat

LOL Midnighter is not winning this fight.

With the leadership coming from Cap and Spider-Man's precog senses and Storms sheer power overwhelming Midnighter...yea he's not winning. There are multiple ways for the Team to kill or K.O.

Team Wins.

I'm sure Lucas has them beat. hes durable enough and can its up to him how he decides to defeat them.

Midnighter for the win

@willpayton: Cool, that's the Wildstorm version, the original Midnighter. The New 52 version is essentially just significantly worse in combat.

A lot of people here don't seem to understand what Midnighter's battle computer does exactly. It's just like precog, it shows him every move his opponents can make and how to counter it. Comparing it to a chess computer is pretty daft, and the claims that Cap's tactical prowess, Logan's maverick attitude,Spiderman's spider-sense, etc, could somehow throw off the battle computer must be coming from people who haven't read enough Midnighter appearances to understand just how hax the battle computer is.

But that doesn't mean he has a win. He can see many possible ways to act, but in the end he will lose.

If you keep Storm on the Team. Yes he will Lose. There are too many ways she can effectively put him down. Offensively and Defensively. BUT Enough of her.

The Fact that the Team KNOWS what he can do using Doors is almost useless. Except for Wolverine, because he doesn't listen.............and he's dumb. LOL

Fight Starts. *Immediately Wolverine gets Kicked in the Face into a door* LOL

The OP should REPLACE Storm. Put in Human Torch OR Black Panther or DareDevil, DeadPool.

Suffocation, lightning, flash freezing, etc. All before Midnighter can react.

It could go either way.

I'm not sure I see her soloing, much less stomping. Midnighter is pretty fast.

@willpayton: She doesn't have to solo (and I don't think she could) she has all the fodder on her team to keep him busy long enough for her to rain down Hell on him (almost literally).

Midnighter is seriously over wanked on here. People even think he can beat karate kid.

Really? You think he's over wanked??? Hmmm I didn't know that nor could I even tell.

Pretty much this. Storm can solo this fight. Which is why I you should Replace her with Someone else that won't end the fight to quick.

She' stopped and hit faster things.

The only one on the team that is would be Nightcrawler.

Being fast is not his only advantage. He's a beast.

Midnighter had the crap kicked out of him, even during his Wildstorm run (saved by Jack, if I remember correctly). There's no way he takes down that team alone.

Out of curiosity does anyone have a reason midnighter would win outside of abusing doors? I don't know much about wildstorm midnighter but I am not convinced that most users on the vine currently have read anything with midnighter honestly, the only reason I am currently seeing (again outside of abusing doors) is the battle computer. There is a big difference between knowing something and implementing a combat tactic. The team doesn't have an answer for doors but I've been told midnighter doesn't like to end fights quickly and doors seem to easy. I guess he would probably use them in other ways like traversing the battle field or moving enemies around so I do see a solid case being made with doors from the scans on the vine I have seen. Storm is probably the MVP for the marvel team here so midnighter probably needs to kill her quickly if he is going to win.

I can see midnighter winning from the scans posted on the vine but if people are going to argue for him I wish they would put more thought into there reasons. Does midnighter really just cut people in half with doors instantly every time, or BFR them to space in every fight? If that is what happens than how does midnighter (or the authority for that matter) get challenged in a fight? This rant doesn't apply to just midngihter either (I just feel these comments happen most frequently in midnighter threads) but I think people need to stop playing follow the leader.

You are right in that Midnighter wouldn't end the fight so quickly, especially since it's In Character so Midnighter likes to play with his food.But then again, nothing against you BTW, characters like Storm wouldn't bombard the field with lightning or Kurt doing something he wouldn't do (not familiar with him). The Battle Computer would immediately tell Midnighter that Storm is the most powerful character on the team so logically Midnighter would go after her and take her out, whether that be through the Door (cut in half, into a volcano haha jkjk, etc.) or teleporting himself and one shotting her.

Regarding this, Midnighter doesn't always do this but then again, this is kinda like a cop out.It's like how people say "If Flash is so fast, then why..." Or "If the Silver Surfer is this yada yada" but I see your point very fairly on why you bring it up. It's in character sure but if Midnighter is facing a team and one or two of these characters bring in powers or skill sets that could be a major threat to him, then I don't see why Midnighter wouldn't resort to some of these tactics. I hope I brought some fair points and it doesn't lead to poor judgements or any negativity :)

@jashro44: One of the main advantages Midnighter has in this battle is raw physical strength over everyone but Spiderman. His blows have busted Apollo's eardrums, he has taken out Winter, another class 100 who defeated Apollo, by cutting off the blood flow to his brain. He has also downed Maul, a character strong enough to ragdoll Captain Atom, with his kicks, and held open the Jaws of a twenty story tall monster with his bare hands.

His combat computer is more effective than one would think. He has managed to constantly evade Lamplighter's laser projectile, which homes in on the target like an Omega Beam, while it was always mere inches away from him. He has stalemated Zealot in a 4 hour long fight (Zealot being widely regarded as one of the best H2H fighter's of Wildstorm) and even that was considered PIS favouring Zealot, since Nemesis, another fighter who has stalemated Zealot often enough, needed a neural dampening agent to go up against him.

One of the greatest factors in the fight is his ability to turn off his pain receptors at will. He has had a hole in his chest and had his heart operated on without anesthetic without any discomfort. This combined with his healing factor means he can take much more damage than most fighters and keep operating at optimal condition.

This is what he can do merely without the Doors.

You don't gotta respond back @jashro44 BTW.Just blabbering

@jashro44: You should REPLACE Storm keeping her on this team Midnighter would surely lose. He has no answer to her powers.

@jashro44 said:

"The team doesn't have an answer for doors but I've been told midnighter doesn't like to end fights quickly and doors seem to easy. I guess he would probably use them in other ways like traversing the battle field or moving enemies around so I do see a solid case being made with doors from the scans on the vine I have seen."

I agree and I disagree for some of them actually have an answer for doors.

Storm: If you didn't know lol she is VERY much in tune with every living thing around her the planet, stars, moon, sun,plants,other forms of energy etc. Storm has this interesting ability called "Sky Topography" she can sense air around any shape OR person and unnatural energy. *I have scans to prove my claim if you want to see.* :-) To my understanding Doors are nothing, but portals he is using from getting one place to another. To Storm she see's Portals,Teleportation(SuperPower) and Teleportation Devices as shifts in the EM field, shifts within the planet, shifts in space/time that are unnatural changes in the environment. What i'm saying is this....IF Midnighter is using Doors she can pin point his location VERY easy because he is shifting between space/time and that is causing an unnatural change in the environment. Then she will unleash ALL hell on him wherever he's location is. Or destroy/change the playing field however she see's fit. To be of aid to her teammates either Offensive OR Defensive. (DOES THIS MAKE SENSE??? Hope i'm not coming off as angry or anything. Hard to talk without sounding like a jerk. SORRY IF I AM)

Spider-Man: As for him i'm not SO sure how Midnighter can get passed his Spidey Senses to be honest. If Mindnighter is pop up from Door to Door trying to tag him, he's wasting time.

NightCralwer: Like Spider-Man not sure how Midnighter is going to tag Kurt being that he is Bamfing EVERY freaking place. LOL. I also heard Kurt is very stealthy(Could be wrong). I don't know his powers that much.

Captain America: Has No answer for the Door.

Wolverine: Has No answer for the Door. Unless you wanna say he can sniff him out. LOL hahahahaha :-)

MY friend you made the mistake of allowing them knowledge on what he can do and what doors are. IF Midnighter is using doors to traverse the playing field??? I'll say this,It's.............. A BAD IDEA.

PLEASE REPLACE STORM. Put in Human Torch or DeadPool.

@reaverlation said:

To answer the Bold: Most Definitely Storm would bombard the field with Lighting AND freezing the whole playing field. She's done it before multiple times. Don't worry about close combat. She will separate herself from him with a powerful Bolt of lightning which she can increase the intensity of the Bolt. *I have scans if you want to see* Midnighter has no counter to her powers.

@reaverlation said:

"You are right in that Midnighter wouldn't end the fight so quickly, especially since it's In Character so Midnighter likes to play with his food."

IF that's the case then the fight IS over if Midnighter is playing around. He just gave Storm TOO much time. (Don't forget Storm does have abilities in her arsenal to instantly K.O or Kill someone easily. She really doesn't have to move a muscle.) And allowed Cap to come up with a plan. Not to mention Captain America is ONE of the BEST tacticians in Comic Book history. AND since the team has knowledge of his "abilities" Cap has already devised a plan to take him out.

@reaverlation said:

"Midnighter would go after her and take her out, whether that be through the Door (cut in half, into a volcano haha jkjk, etc.) or teleporting himself and one shotting her."

As I explained to the Wonderful Gentlemen Jashro44 Doors are not going to work. Not to mention he HAS to physically put them into the Door. SO I will just post what I said to him here so you can read it also why Doors are not much help.

- If you didn't know lol she is VERY much in tune with every living thing around her the planet, stars, moon, sun,plants,other forms of energy etc. Storm has this interesting ability called "Sky Topography" she can sense air around any shape OR person and unnatural energy. *I have scans if you want to see.* To my understanding Doors are nothing, but portals he is using from getting one place to another. To Storm she see's Portals,Teleportation(SuperPower) and Teleportation Devices as shifts in the EM field, shifts within the planet, shifts in space/time that are unnatural changes in the environment. What i'm saying is this....IF Midnighter is using Doors she can pin point his location VERY easy because he is shifting between space/time and that is causing an unnatural change in the environment. Then she will unleash ALL hell on him wherever he's location is. Or destroy/change the playing field however she see's fit. And or to be of aid to her teammates either Offensive OR Defensive. (DOES THIS MAKE SENSE??? Hope i'm not coming off as angry or anything. Hard to talk without sounding like a jerk. SORRY IF I AM)

Wonderful Talking to you guys. I just want the Storm Replaced with Someone Else. Like Human Torch or DeadPool or DareDevil.

OK. Does i protect from lightning instantly frying him? Suffocation? Freezing?

It wont. But I think the battle computer might help him avoid such attacks. It basically allows him to know what an attacker will do before they do it.

@reaverlation:

You are right in that Midnighter wouldn't end the fight so quickly, especially since it's In Character so Midnighter likes to play with his food.But then again, nothing against you BTW, characters like Storm wouldn't bombard the field with lightning or Kurt doing something he wouldn't do (not familiar with him). The Battle Computer would immediately tell Midnighter that Storm is the most powerful character on the team so logically Midnighter would go after her and take her out, whether that be through the Door (cut in half, into a volcano haha jkjk, etc.) or teleporting himself and one shotting her.

Fair enough.

Regarding this, Midnighter doesn't always do this but then again, this is kinda like a cop out.It's like how people say "If Flash is so fast, then why..." Or "If the Silver Surfer is this yada yada" but I see your point very fairly on why you bring it up.

Well when I said "Does midnighter really just cut people in half with doors instantly every time, or BFR them to space in every fight? If that is what happens than how does midnighter (or the authority for that matter) get challenged in a fight?" I was actually just asking because I'm curious what kind of enemies it takes to challenge midnighter.

It's in character sure but if Midnighter is facing a team and one or two of these characters bring in powers or skill sets that could be a major threat to him, then I don't see why Midnighter wouldn't resort to some of these tactics.

Possibly. I just imagine midnighter would only go for an easy victory like that if he had to, if I am understanding the character correctly. People seem to be implying that no one here is a threat to midnighter at all which is why I wanted people to explain themselves better. At least that is the impression I got.

I hope I brought some fair points and it doesn't lead to poor judgements or any negativity :)

Yea there were some fair points.

I agree with you that midnighter is likely stronger than anyone except maybe spider-man I don't think these are the best examples asdie from holding open the jaws of the twenty story monster. Midnighter's battle computer gives him karnak like abilities so these feats aren't entirely strength feats aside from the monster feat.

I have one question about how the battle computer works. Do the scenarios just download into his head and he just has them in his head as if there some sort of memory, or does he have to actually watch the scenarios first in order to understand them? I hope my question makes sense....

Well how fast are lamplighter's projectiles? I've seen the scans and they appear to be some laser beam, but I am guessing they aren't light speed since midnighter pretty much out ran these projectiles?

Well in regards to zealot what has she done to put her above the team? I mean wolverine and captain america can be argued among the best of marvels hand to hand fighters and there not alone here. Additionally can I have some context around this scene?

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I remember seeing these scans in the zealot vs midnighter thread, and the impression I get from these scans is that midnighter was confident he was going to beat Zealot? So wouldn't this mean that the fight between midnighter and zealot didn't play out how midnighter wanted since it was a stalemate? How did midnighter's fight with nemesis play out?

How good is midnighters healing factor?

Can storm sense any unnatural form of energy in the environment? And how will storm unleash hell upon midnighter without endangering her teammates? I don't see storm spamming area of effect attacks here. Theoretically she might be better off by herself. All though honestly the biggest issue I see is midnighter using doors to get in melee distance and one shotting storm. Likewise even if Storm can track where he will open his doors she still needs to react fast enough to hit him.

Well the thing is that midnighter isn't just dangerous because doors. It doesn't matter if spider-man can sense midnighter or not, because doors still give midnighter a maneuverability advantage even assuming midnighter doesn't just go the easy route. Why wouldn't midnighter be able to tag Kurt? Kurt's ports have been predicted by people without precognition like midnighters or without teleportation of there own. Why would stealth help nightcrawler? According to midnghter's comicivne page he has enhanced senses.

@jashro44: Midnighter isn't stronger than Spider-Man. Midnighter is more precision.

Midnighter remembers the scenarios. It's how he knows how fights end.A way to beat the Battle Computer is through speed but nobody on the team sports Superman level speed.

Regarding Zealot, she is easily one of the best fighters in the Wildstorm universe with easily taking on characters like Backlash, one of the best fighters in the Wildstorm universe, Nemesis, another top fighter, and Captain Atom. The Team's fighting experience doesn't even count for a quarter if how much Zealot has. Her fight against Midnighter is easily one of her best showings, especially since Zealot, IIRC, fought someone named Sheba and Zealot couldn't land a hit on her and Nemesis compared Sheba to fighting Midnighter

There's no need to replace Storm.If Midnighter sees her as the biggest threat, then she won't last long

@reaverlation:

Midnighter remembers the scenarios. It's how he knows how fights end.A way to beat the Battle Computer is through speed but nobody on the team sports Superman level speed.

So he doesn't have to watch the fight play out in his head, the fight just ends up in his brain as if it already happened?

Regarding Zealot, she is easily one of the best fighters in the Wildstorm universe with easily taking on characters like Backlash, one of the best fighters in the Wildstorm universe, Nemesis, another top fighter, and Captain Atom.

Aside from Captain Atom why does this place her above every member of the team combined? As for Zealot's fight with captain atom not much really happened. He commented on her speed and surprised him but that was it.

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I'm not actually sure how fast captain atom is, but assuming he has superman level speed (someone correct me if my assumption is wrong, I'm only assuming this because every DC power house seems to be fast) I don't think this makes her as fast as him since he wasn't expecting her to be as fast as she was.

The Team's fighting experience doesn't even count for a quarter if how much Zealot has.

I don't think quantity of experience really matters much. It should be about quality. What did zealot do during that time is what matters.

Her fight against Midnighter is easily one of her best showings, especially since Zealot, IIRC, fought someone named Sheba and Zealot couldn't land a hit on her and Nemesis compared Sheba to fighting Midnighter

Well OK. People keep bringing up how Zealot fighting midnighter is one of her best showings but I don't really get why that matters....I'm trying to understand why midnighter stalemating Zealot puts him above the team? The sheba point is interesting but Sheba and midnighter are still different characters.

Don't see how he can avoid suffocation or Flash freezing. They happen directly to him. No matter where he moves, they follow.

@jashro44: He plays the fight out in his head a million times and sees which one gives him the win and how it plays out.

I don't think Midnighter fighting Zealot should be the sole reason he beats this team.That showing just shows how Midnighter can fight people of Spider-Man level stats, in general except for strength, and an insane amount of skill.

Regarding Captain Atom, I just look at it as a good showing. And Nathaniel isn't as fast as Superman.

The experience, in this case, actually means something in that the experience sums up how long she's actually been fighting since her and the Coda are basically the reason for fighting and Martial arts on Earth.Zealot has the skill to easily put her as one of the best fighters on Earth and her planet, a planet of people who devoted their lives to combat prowess for millennia (plural for millennium?). If there was a definition for Martial Arts or Combat or whatever, she'd be part of that picture.

If I said that Zealot fighting Midnighter is a reason for Midnighter beating this team, I apologize. Midnighter just being a badass is enough :D.