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#1 Edited by rd1027 (843 posts) - - Show Bio

Attackers: Darkraiden

Your team is sent to take a valuable piece of intel. To do this, they must secure the building, and hack the computer (your team will have knowledge of how to) and protect it for 5 minutes. However, you must secure the encryption codes found at two separate locations, the central computer can not be hacked in any other way, shape, or form. Once you secure both, you can move on and try to assault the main structure. Note that all of the buildings, and battlefield are indestructible.

Defenders: Mr_Ingenuity

Your team must protect the intel that the other team is trying to take. You must hold out until the other team is either ko'd/dead.

Map:

No Caption Provided

The length of the battlefield is roughly 5 miles from your spawn to C, 2.5 miles to A and B.

Key:

Red I's: Where each of the attackers will spawn.

A and B: The two outposts with the encryption code you must take, these are military grade bunkers.

C: The main building

Blue Arrows: Where the defenders will spawn, two at a time.

Rules:

  • No going above the limits, if anyone is let me know and that character is immediately turned into a peak human with no other powers.
  • No going out of bounds of the battlefield, if you do then your team member is automatically dead.
  • Standard Morals apply unless you choose the morals off perk
  • Both of your teams will be supplied with a tactical view of the battlefield, no other knowledge.
  • All characters will come with standard gear unless supplemented with prep or the gunslinger perk.
  • No prep done can break the limits, you can also not change/alter the battlefield with the prep unless you are the defenders, you will have 10 minutes to set up your traps.
  • No knowledge of the other team unless through previous encounters or the full knowledge perk.
  • Team chemistry will come into play.
  • Intangibility is legal, but only in a defensive manner (with a maximum duration of one minute and a 30 second cooldown between uses).
  • Limit of 5 clones per team.
  • If both users select prep, you must pm me your outlines to avoid unfairness. If only one sleets prep you can just post it here.
  • Feats for Video Game characters must be limited to cutscene feats and known abilities. In game mechanics are not allowed (such as master chief flipping over warthogs)

Teams:

@mr_ingenuity

Soldier X Cable

Bruce Banner (no hulk)

Vision (composite)

Robert Baldwin

Assist

Radioactive Man

Perks

Prep Time

Morals off

@darkraiden

Storm

Raven

Jill Carlyle

Mimic

Morals Off

Perfect Teamwork

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#2 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14551 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden Since I have prep I'll skip the intro. My post will be up tomorrow, but you may go on ahead.

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#3 Posted by beatboks1 (9763 posts) - - Show Bio

can't wait

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#4 Posted by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity:

Intro

Storm:

Weather control and stuff

Raven:

Empath, teleport, tk, demon/magic and stuff

Jill Carlyle:

Spirit of Vengeance basically with bullets that hit and can kill anything. Intangible, can teleport

Mimic:

Can...mimic people's abilities and skills. Also has Iceman, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Prof X, Beast, Angel, and....maybe someone else's powers.

Raven and Storm are morals Off

Strategy

1. Raven messes with your minds with illusions and empathy

2. Mimic uses Prof X's telepathy to help do that and shut your minds down

3. Storm uses lightning, tornadoes, and flash freeze to take you out/kill you

4. Jill teleports and shoots you if need be. Probably not needed.

5. Jill or Storm or whoever does the hacking with tornados and lightning and Tk shields and Raven's soul self protecting them as well as Mimic's tk, ice, and copy of their abilities.

Yeah.

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#5 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14551 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden:

Prep

The perk of using marvel characters, lazy handbook intros. ☜(゚ヮ゚☜) Although these are from 2005 -2010, in addition to that it does not reflect the character's powers 100% accurately.

Cable

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Cable will use telepathy starting a telepathic link with the organic members of my team. With this my team will instantly be able to exchange hours worth of experience and information. Cable will then transfer Bruce’s knowledge of Banner Tech, allowing everyone to build and operate everything Bruce has ever invented.

Next step will be to gather resources given Bruce’s labs & connections this is easily done. Cable will build himself shields, old power tasser, teleporter, nanites & sensors.

Lastly Cable will hand out PSI shields which will filter out mental manipulation but leave communication intact.

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Bruce Banner

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Bruce will teleport everyone to his secret lab so everyone may use resources available there. If everything need is readily available there Bruce with the help of vision will hack into SHIELD teleporting to gather the necessities. Bruce’s satchel is directly linked to his lab, so anything placed inside is teleported, wasting no time getting the items to teammates.

While on this quest Bruce will take some highly unstable elements to use in some gamma bombs just enough for two. Seeing as this was the start of his career it should be child’s play. In attempts to avoid these bombs being compromised Bruce will trigger the bomb to detonate upon teleportation. Also in a last resort Bruce will have the bombs set to teleport if the entire team is KO or killed.

Vision

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Vision whole use of preo will be to aid in complete everyone’s Banner Tech. Armed with high tech scanners, a body composed of nanites, & genius AI Vision will complete the tech in no more than 11hrs. Vision while helping everyone will upgrade scanners to detect the quantum level so it’s nigh impossible for anything to be invisible to my team.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Radioactive Man

With the knowledge given Radioactive Man will build Banner Tech.

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Robert Baldwin

Robert will follow suit and build Banner Tech.

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My team will not take advantage of the 10 min trap setup.

Strategy

Teleporting to "C" with shields and other defences form powers set up, Bruce will teleport one of the two gamma bombs on two the battlefield. Seeing as My team will be prepared given the telepathic link. Cable will use his tk to the max gathering enough air for my team to breathe indefinitely, going as far to pull in air miles outside of the blast radius. Radioactive Man will absorb most of the radiation that reaches my team, their shields will absorb the remaining. Robert will further strengthen defences with kinetic shielding.

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With the initial attack compete Vision & Radioactive Man will go out and kill surviving members of your team vision will assault your team with nanites having them enter their systems attacking their brain. Radioactive Man will use the excess energy and blast your team with the power of the nuke but smaller in scale.

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In all likelihood this should kill all members of your team. Storm & Mimic have no answer to this. Raven & Jill Carlyle could survive by being Incorporeal spirits but in your strategy you make no mention of utilizing intangibility from the start & being limited to 30 sec they would need to survive the harsh conditions that follow (radiation, lack of oxygen, heat).

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#6 Posted by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: @rd1027:

Um....doesn't this rule invalidate his prep?:

No going out of bounds of the battlefield, if you do then your team member is automatically dead.

Not sure if that includes prep, but....it seems like it does for now.

Strategy

Teleporting to c with shields and other defences form powers set up, Bruce will teleport one of the two gamma bombs on two the battlefield. Seeing as My team will be prepared given the telepathic link. Cable will use his tk to the max gathering enough air for my team to breathe indefinitely, going as far to pull in air miles outside of the blast radius. Radioactive Man will absorb most of the radiation that reaches my team, their shields will absorb the remaining. Robert will further strengthen defences with kinetic shielding.

With the initial attack compete Vision & Radioactive Man will go out and kill surviving members of your team vision will assault your team with nanites having them enter their systems attacking their brain. Radioactive Man will use the excess energy and blast your team with the power of the nuke but smaller in scale.

In all likelihood this should kill all members of your team. Storm & Mimic have no answer to this. Raven & Jill Carlyle could survive by being Incorporeal spirits but in your strategy you make no mention of utilizing intangibility from the start & being limited to 30 sec they would need to survive the harsh conditions that follow (radiation, lack of oxygen, heat).

Um....

1. How is Bruce teleporting everyone? Don't remember him having those capabilities.

2. You kinda just teleport the gamma bombs onto the battlefield, don't see why or how they'd reach us unless they have feats of having an extreme radius or w/e. Also still don't know how you're teleporting anything

3. Umm...My first steps were this:

1. Raven messes with your minds with illusions and empathy

2. Mimic uses Prof X's telepathy to help do that and shut your minds down

3. Storm uses lightning, tornadoes, and flash freeze to take you out/kill you

4. Jill teleports and shoots you if need be. Probably not needed.

I didn't see any counters. You showed psi-shields but didn't show them work on anyone near as good as Prof. X or Raven (who uses empathy anyways and thus should bypass the psi-shields).

Also didn't see any counters for Storm conjuring up the tornadoes, lightning, and freezing (takes only a thought), or Jill killing you with her bullets. So you really didn't counter anything.

4. Storm can block the bomb with her winds, especially just the fallout. She can also use air pressure or just fly out of range. Raven could also just teleport her out of the way. Mimic has all of my teams powers, can block the bomb with TK, can teleport out of the way, can block it with wind, and go intangible. Raven and Jill obviously just go intangible and/or teleport the bomb away to your team tbh.

Also intangibility is limited to 1 minute, not 30 seconds and the heat doesn't last that long, and Jill's kinda an unkillable being while Raven can just teleport or use TK.

So umm.....

Summary

1. Need proof of teleportation

2. Need proof of gamma bomb and what it can do

3. Your prep might break the rules

4. You didn't counter anything I did, the empathy, the TP, the TK, the storms, etc.

5. We can easily block the bomb and destroy you.

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#7 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14551 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden:

Not sure if that includes prep, but....it seems like it does for now.

Prep isn't done on location and there was no mention of that.

Um....

1. How is Bruce teleporting everyone? Don't remember him having those capabilities.

2. You kinda just teleport the gamma bombs onto the battlefield, don't see why or how they'd reach us unless they have feats of having an extreme radius or w/e. Also still don't know how you're teleporting anything

It seems you didn't read Bruce's handbook entry more importantly the black textbox, also Bruce, Robert, Cable & RM have teleporters.

But here is the crucial info you asked for:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Do you honestly lack that much info on the Hulk? Seriously, please answer it will help me continue.

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I didn't see any counters. You showed psi-shields but didn't show them work on anyone near as good as Prof. X or Raven (who uses empathy anyways and thus should bypass the psi-shields).

PSI or "Psionics is an umbrella term used by parapsychologists to describe alleged psychic abilities such as telepathy, psychokinesis, pyrokinesis and others."

So claiming Raven gets past PIS shields is unfounded. Bruce & Robert have empathic resistance with that my team is mentally linked with Cable so he can force your team out.

Mimic with Xavier's telepathy isn't doing any better, considering Xavier has been shut out by basic PSI shields. This one specify scrambles brain waves that telepaths use. Unless Mimic has mastered Xavier's telepathy to a higher degree mentally attacking characters with no discernible thoughts.

Also didn't see any counters for Storm conjuring up the tornadoes, lightning, and freezing (takes only a thought), or Jill killing you with her bullets. So you really didn't counter anything.

None of that can get past shields. This debate has a very predictable course, as your side is lacking the basics.

Reacts to rail gun fire & stand up to continuous laser fire.

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Tanks hit from various heavy hitters.

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Tanks cosmic energy.

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4. Storm can block the bomb with her winds, especially just the fallout. She can also use air pressure or just fly out of range. Raven could also just teleport her out of the way. Mimic has all of my teams powers, can block the bomb with TK, can teleport out of the way, can block it with wind, and go intangible. Raven and Jill obviously just go intangible and/or teleport the bomb away to your team tbh.

Most of this needs feats. Such as Mimic instantly copying your team's powers to defend or Storm generating strong enough winds faster than light.

We also must call into question your team reacting to gamma rays. Unless they react FTL or have precog there isn't any plausible way they survive.

The claims of dodging are useless & unnecessary because that would require leaving the area forfeiting the match.

Also intangibility is limited to 1 minute, not 30 seconds and the heat doesn't last that long, and Jill's kinda an unkillable being while Raven can just teleport or use TK.

So umm.....

I stand corrected 1 min although that changes nothing. The fire ball created will last long passed 1 min so yes the heat will still be there.

Already addressed teleportation & TK. I have no knowledge of Jill so if you could substantiate your claims of why Jill is unaffected.

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#8 Posted by rd1027 (843 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: @mr_ingenuity: Prep is done using the combined resources of your characters, you will then be teleported to the battlefield.

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#9 Posted by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity:

It seems you didn't read Bruce's handbook entry more importantly the black textbox, also Bruce, Robert, Cable & RM have teleporters.

But here is the crucial info you asked for:

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

handbooks tend to be wrong, so I just like feats.

And yes that is crucial. Let's me know that it takes a few seconds for the teleporter to work.

PSI or "Psionics is an umbrella term used by parapsychologists to describe alleged psychic abilities such as telepathy, psychokinesis, pyrokinesis and others."

So claiming Raven gets past PIS shields is unfounded. Bruce & Robert have empathic resistance with that my team is mentally linked with Cable so he can force your team out.

Mimic with Xavier's telepathy isn't doing any better, considering Xavier has been shut out by basic PSI shields. This one specify scrambles brain waves that telepaths use. Unless Mimic has mastered Xavier's telepathy to a higher degree mentally attacking characters with no discernible thoughts.

Cool but....proof? Showings? I mean we can all say stuff but eh....not proving much. Xavier's gotten past powerful psi shields and has easily put to sleep people with vast telepathic resistance.

Reacts to rail gun fire & stand up to continuous laser fire.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Tanks hit from various heavy hitters.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4

Tanks cosmic energy.

How does any of that mean it can stand up to lightning, freezing and tornadoes? I just see blunt damage and projectiles. Nothing about frost or tornadoes at all. There was a guy who had similar shields and...well he didn't fare too well against the tornadoes.

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So those Tornadoes still take your team out.

Most of this needs feats. Such as Mimic instantly copying your team's powers to defend or Storm generating strong enough winds faster than light.

We also must call into question your team reacting to gamma rays. Unless they react FTL or have precog there isn't any plausible way they survive.

The claims of dodging are useless & unnecessary because that would require leaving the area forfeiting the match.

I don't have Mimic's stuff on me at the moment, but it's well known that once he's in range he instantly copies all powers. Not sure what exactly you want me to prove from him anyways.... but yeah.

And my team doesn't have to react to gamma rays, but the explosion itself. The Gamma rays aren't instantly deadly (at least IRL) so that won't be the problem, the explosion itself however isn't FTL so we're good.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5202322_effects-gamma-radiation.html

http://www.kingcounty.gov/healthservices/health/preparedness/radiation/facts.aspx

And dodging is not unnecessary since we could just...you know fly really high in the sky. No rule against that.

And even more, Raven can heal people so....yeah.

Already addressed teleportation & TK. I have no knowledge of Jill so if you could substantiate your claims of why Jill is unaffected.

When? You literally didn't mention either of those.....Don't see why a TK shield wouldn't just block out the gamma rays. Especially from such a far range.

Anyways, stuff I still need from you:

1. Proof that Banner or anyone on your team can make a gamma bomb in 12 hours. I know Banner's been working on it for a while, but never seen him make one in just 12 hours, especially recently and with the stuff in his lab

2. Proof Banner can teleport bombs and whatnot from his lab to the battlefield

3. Proof your shields can hold up to Storm's onslaught

4. Proof your psi-shields will block Prof. X's telepathy and Raven's empathy

5. Reasons why a gamma bomb would kill any of us

Scans of Raven healing people and Storm's storms remaining when she's unconscious and the power of her winds (instant winds too):

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5
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#10 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14551 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden:

Cool but....proof? Showings? I mean we can all say stuff but eh....not proving much. Xavier's gotten past powerful psi shields and has easily put to sleep people with vast telepathic resistance.

Yes it's done exactly as stated, having the capacity render telepathy useless.

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Robert (speedball) is telepathic resistant, shown when Mastermind was unable to enter his mind. Also when Nightmare uses empathy to overwhelm Robert, he returns fine.

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Vision has shown immunity from time to time being an android but it's recently been established a planetary level telepath can affect him. Which none are present in the match. Cable is a telepathy himself, having force other telepaths out, so no manipulation there. Leaving bruce & Radiation Man to be covered by Cable & PSI shields.

How does any of that mean it can stand up to lightning, freezing and tornadoes? I just see blunt damage and projectiles. Nothing about frost or tornadoes at all. There was a guy who had similar shields and...well he didn't fare too well against the tornadoes.

So those Tornadoes still take your team out.

Gamma shields protects from the environment, even in places with no air, such as the bottom of the sea. Also allowed Banner to walk though fires unharmed and shown to take blast from Hiro Kala (Hulk's son).

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Storm is a non factor including the fact she dies from the gamma bomb.

I don't have Mimic's stuff on me at the moment, but it's well known that once he's in range he instantly copies all powers. Not sure what exactly you want me to prove from him anyways.... but yeah.

And my team doesn't have to react to gamma rays, but the explosion itself. The Gamma rays aren't instantly deadly (at least IRL) so that won't be the problem, the explosion itself however isn't FTL so we're good.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5202322_effects-gamma-radiation.html

http://www.kingcounty.gov/healthservices/health/preparedness/radiation/facts.aspx

And dodging is not unnecessary since we could just...you know fly really high in the sky. No rule against that.

And even more, Raven can heal people so....yeah.

You stated Mimic could block the gamma bomb with TK, I doubt he has been shown close to that range.

I don't see how those facts help against level of radiation the (fictional) gamma bomb produces. Even Tony noted the original gamma bomb was far more powerful than any city busting nuke.

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So the only counter is fly out of range? Good luck.

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When? You literally didn't mention either of those.....Don't see why a TK shield wouldn't just block out the gamma rays. Especially from such a far range.

"The length of the battlefield is roughly 5 miles" I'm not seeing how this is long range for city busting.

Anyways, stuff I still need from you:

1. Proof that Banner or anyone on your team can make a gamma bomb in 12 hours. I know Banner's been working on it for a while, but never seen him make one in just 12 hours, especially recently and with the stuff in his lab

Banner has maked a more powerful bomb in less than 24 hours (also ready for testing) designed to cure people of the Terrigen Mist. But here he not only has his shield tech, also secret lab, & Vision's help.

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Easily done.

2. Proof Banner can teleport bombs and whatnot from his lab to the battlefield

I'm not even going to bother with this.

3. Proof your shields can hold up to Storm's onslaught

Non factor.

4. Proof your psi-shields will block Prof. X's telepathy and Raven's empathy

Addressed.

5. Reasons why a gamma bomb would kill any of us

"Boom to the power of boom." Satisfied?

Scans of Raven healing people and Storm's storms remaining when she's unconscious and the power of her winds (instant winds too)

I'm going to dismiss this, seeing as storm has peak human durability, facing the point blank range of a gamma bomb.

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#11 Edited by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity:

Cool but....proof? Showings? I mean we can all say stuff but eh....not proving much. Xavier's gotten past powerful psi shields and has easily put to sleep people with vast telepathic resistance.

Yes it's done exactly as stated, having the capacity render telepathy useless.

Let's be fair here...that's not very convincing especially against the likes of Professor X and Raven. That's an unproven psychic with no real feats even close to that level.

Robert (speedball) is telepathic resistant, shown when Mastermind was unable to enter his mind. Also when Nightmare uses empathy to overwhelm Robert, he returns fine.

I mean...again let's be fair here. Phoenix is telepathically resistant, Thor is telepathically resistant, etc. etc. and Prof X has penetrated their minds. Same with Mento and raven. And the empathy Nightmare is using is actually the opposite of what I'm doing. Nightmare empowered Penance basically by causing him pain, I'm using it for illusions and to knock you out, not cause you pain.

Vision has shown immunity from time to time being an android but it's recently been established a planetary level telepath can affect him. Which none are present in the match. Cable is a telepathy himself, having force other telepaths out, so no manipulation there. Leaving bruce & Radiation Man to be covered by Cable & PSI shields.

I need proof for Vision tbh. I've never known him to be immune in any way. As for Cable and the others, telepaths have been felled by Prof. X and Raven before, this should be no different.

Gamma shields protects from the environment, even in places with no air, such as the bottom of the sea. Also allowed Banner to walk though fires unharmed and shown to take blast from Hiro Kala (Hulk's son).

The Gamma shield you're showing does that because it's a bubble, with air, normal pressure air inside of it which stops all of the negative effects of the bottom of the ocean.

It literally has NOTHING to do with being frozen or being caught and immobilized in a tornado. Especially since your own showing, vs. Juggernaut showed that powerful force still moves you while in the gamma shields, they just don't hurt. Like Magneto you'll be immobilized and suffocated (as Storm can control the air inside of the bubble).

Storm is a non factor including the fact she dies from the gamma bomb.

Not true. The gamma bomb has nothing that would logically kill her. Pressure? She's survived greater pressure than the bomb would give off. Plus her winds would alleviate that at least 80-90%.

Heat? Storm's highly invulnerable to heat, so that's not working either. And again, winds and ice/freezing counter that.

Radiation? Radiation is a slow killer that takes weeks to take effect.

So she'll survive fairly easily.

You stated Mimic could block the gamma bomb with TK, I doubt he has been shown close to that range.

I don't see how those facts help against level of radiation the (fictional) gamma bomb produces. Even Tony noted the original gamma bomb was far more powerful than any city busting nuke.

He's stated to have Jean's Tk and she certainly has the levels to do so. Also he'll have my other people on my team's powers so winds from Storm, intangibility from Raven and Jill. He'll be fine.

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Jean's TK blocking explosions, even from Binary, which is >small gamma bomb. Mimic's stated to have her TK.

And the facts help because they show that the gamma radiation you think is so deadly....actually isn't. And with people who can block radiation with air and intangibility, as well as heal, well the bomb's nearly useless now.

Here's more if you want:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_nuclear_explosions_on_human_health

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_explosive_detonation_velocities

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_nuclear_explosions

And just to point out, the first one even says that the fate of humans cauht in the blast can depend on buildings around them collapsing....and these buildings are indestructible.

So the only counter is fly out of range? Good luck.

No. We can block it with TK, go intangible, block it with winds, etc. That's just a possible counter as well. Don't need luck.

"The length of the battlefield is roughly 5 miles" I'm not seeing how this is long range for city busting.

Hiroshima was city busting.....most of the damage didn't go past 5 miles (the super hot, insane damage needed to get past shields and damage anyone anyways). So it's a pretty long shot.

Banner has maked a more powerful bomb in less than 24 hours (also ready for testing) designed to cure people of the Terrigen Mist. But here he not only has his shield tech, also secret lab, & Vision's help.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

Easily done.

I....um...hate to break it to you but....24 hours>12 hours. So lesss than 24 hours, still can >12 hours. Like 21 or 23 or even 15 or 13 hours. That doesn't prove anything about him making a gamma bomb in 12 hours or less.

2. Proof Banner can teleport bombs and whatnot from his lab to the battlefield

I'm not even going to bother with this.

Nah seriously...you've proved he can teleport to his lab and back but....not that he can remotely teleport random items (especially bombs) from his lab.If you said he was going to teleport to his lab and back, then maybe but then he'd be out of the fight so...I need proof.

3. Proof your shields can hold up to Storm's onslaught

Non factor.

Pretty big factor. I've already proven that her storms will remain even if you could knock her out or kill her (you can't) so you'll be caught helplessly in a tornado, freezing, and being struck by lightning. None of which you showed your gamma shields can handle. In fact, the Juggernaut showing and other heavy hitters showings proved that force still moves you and...tornadoes and event he bomb you set off is a lot of force.

5. Reasons why a gamma bomb would kill any of us

"Boom to the power of boom." Satisfied?

Actually no. You've shown nothing and I've done research and some people have survived Hiroshima and the like just being 300 meters away. And that's without the aid of powers to block bombs or indestructible buildings blocking the bombs impact. Forgot about those?

I'm going to dismiss this, seeing as storm has peak human durability, facing the point blank range of a gamma bomb.

Nah. She's above peak human for one, two she has winds to block damage, and she's not point blank really at all. Plus you haven't proven anything about even making the gamma bomb or it's size/strength/yield/anything. Just statements about what went down when Banner accidentally got caught in an explosion from a bomb it took him forever to make. Not 12 hours.

Scans of Storm:

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Dealing with pressure, fire, heat, etc.

So overall, I reiterate:

1. No counter for TP and Empathy

2. No counter for being struck by lightning, frozen, suffocated, and most of all immobilized by a tornado

3. The bomb doesn't kill any of us at all as proven by feats and real life facts.

4. With you immobilized and/or vegetables and/or dead, we easily hack the place and win the mission.

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#12 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14551 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden:

Growing impatient of waiting on feats for Mimic I looked him up. What I found surprising was the character has less than 100 appearances, for a character that was introduced in the 60s lasting until 2014. What what I found most interesting is the fact in those appearances he has zeros feats to back up your claims; BS, if you will. Honestly the best he’s shown from Xavier is a PSI bolt & mind reading limited in range and power. If by any chance you need to know more, scans below.

Mimics handbook

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Here's Mimic permanently copying the 60's X-Men powers. All before jean had the capacity to wield the phoenix force, Cyclops blast through a mountain, or Iceman could freeze anything above a building.

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Let's be fair here...that's not very convincing especially against the likes of Professor X and Raven. That's an unproven psychic with no real feats even close to that level.

Let's be fair here, I'm not interested in convincing you of anything. Considering you lack knowledge of the subject.

I mean...again let's be fair here. Phoenix is telepathically resistant, Thor is telepathically resistant, etc. etc. and Prof X has penetrated their minds. Same with Mento and raven. And the empathy Nightmare is using is actually the opposite of what I'm doing. Nightmare empowered Penance basically by causing him pain, I'm using it for illusions and to knock you out, not cause you pain.

Mimic has shown none of those feats or a similar level. Nightmare has shown empathy on a planetary level (Being a fear lord), possession, & mind control. Far more versatile and powerful than Raven.

I need proof for Vision tbh. I've never known him to be immune in any way. As for Cable and the others, telepaths have been felled by Prof. X and Raven before, this should be no different.

Xavier? Ha!

The Gamma shield you're showing does that because it's a bubble, with air, normal pressure air inside of it which stops all of the negative effects of the bottom of the ocean.

It literally has NOTHING to do with being frozen or being caught and immobilized in a tornado. Especially since your own showing, vs. Juggernaut showed that powerful force still moves you while in the gamma shields, they just don't hurt. Like Magneto you'll be immobilized and suffocated (as Storm can control the air inside of the bubble).

This is irrelevant honestly seeing how storm is dead. Also considering the fact my team is on the other side of the battle field changing location by teleporting. Storm will have no knowledge of their location.

Not true. The gamma bomb has nothing that would logically kill her. Pressure? She's survived greater pressure than the bomb would give off. Plus her winds would alleviate that at least 80-90%.

Heat? Storm's highly invulnerable to heat, so that's not working either. And again, winds and ice/freezing counter that.

Radiation? Radiation is a slow killer that takes weeks to take effect.

So she'll survive fairly easily.

Go read infinity war Storm was helpless when the gamma bomb appeared. While Sue was able to redirect the blast but still unable to contain it. Masterson Thor had to BFR it out of the atmosphere. Face it even in comics Storm dies.

He's stated to have Jean's Tk and she certainly has the levels to do so. Also he'll have my other people on my team's powers so winds from Storm, intangibility from Raven and Jill. He'll be fine.

The level of TK he has from Jean aka Marvel Girl will do nothing.

Mimic’s powers are proximity based Considering “Red I's: Where each of the attackers will spaw” Mimic is nowhere near any of them when the bomb goes off.

And the facts help because they show that the gamma radiation you think is so deadly....actually isn't. And with people who can block radiation with air and intangibility, as well as heal, well the bomb's nearly useless now.

Tell me how you know more about the Gamma bomb than Stark or Banner. When both admitted Banner would be dead without Stark tapering with it. You don't even know the characters you're debating for. But somehow you understand the continuity of the gamma bomb.

No. We can block it with TK, go intangible, block it with winds, etc. That's just a possible counter as well. Don't need luck.

Once the Gamma bomb detonates it’s too late. Nothing you have shown gives your team any chance of surviving.

Hiroshima was city busting.....most of the damage didn't go past 5 miles (the super hot, insane damage needed to get past shields and damage anyone anyways). So it's a pretty long shot.

Little Boy was an H bomb that was air bursted hundreds of meters above ground. Now tell how a gamma bomb is the same.

I....um...hate to break it to you but....24 hours>12 hours. So lesss than 24 hours, still can >12 hours. Like 21 or 23 or even 15 or 13 hours. That doesn't prove anything about him making a gamma bomb in 12 hours or less.

Attempting to convince you of anything is a fruitless effort. So unless you need a ruling, I’m going to move on.

Nah seriously...you've proved he can teleport to his lab and back but....not that he can remotely teleport random items (especially bombs) from his lab.If you said he was going to teleport to his lab and back, then maybe but then he'd be out of the fight so...I need proof.

Banner satchel connects on his lab., all it require is Banner to use his teleporter with his hand inside. That’s honestly as simple as I can make it. Banners smart enough to reverse engineer a teleporter but not pan out that simple step. Not seeing it.

Pretty big factor. I've already proven that her storms will remain even if you could knock her out or kill her (you can't) so you'll be caught helplessly in a tornado, freezing, and being struck by lightning. None of which you showed your gamma shields can handle. In fact, the Juggernaut showing and other heavy hitters showings proved that force still moves you and...tornadoes and event he bomb you set off is a lot of force.

Non factor.

Actually no. You've shown nothing and I've done research and some people have survived Hiroshima and the like just being 300 meters away. And that's without the aid of powers to block bombs or indestructible buildings blocking the bombs impact. Forgot about those?

You stating I’ve done the research implies you understand the topic & in fact apply them here.

FYI the only team that spawns inside building is mine, look at the map. You’re posing details that don’t support your team.

Nah. She's above peak human for one, two she has winds to block damage, and she's not point blank really at all. Plus you haven't proven anything about even making the gamma bomb or it's size/strength/yield/anything. Just statements about what went down when Banner accidentally got caught in an explosion from a bomb it took him forever to make. Not 12 hours.

The scan above shows the gamma bomb having the power to destroying an island. This one with easily cover the battle field.

“size/strength/yield/anything” You do understand we're discussing a fictional bomb? Maybe not considering you have an overnight degree in nuclear engineering.

As it stands right now. Mimic is useless. Storm has now way of construing city busting force. Raven, or Jill won't react to the bomb, taken out with their teammates.

Avatar image for darkraiden
#13 Edited by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity:

Growing impatient of waiting on feats for Mimic I looked him up. What I found surprising was the character has less than 100 appearances, for a character that was introduced in the 60s lasting until 2014. What what I found most interesting is the fact in those appearances he has zeros feats to back up your claims; BS, if you will. Honestly the best he’s shown from Xavier is a PSI bolt & mind reading limited in range and power. If by any chance you need to know more, scans below.

Mimics handbook

Back up what feats? Blocking explosions? using telepathy? That's all I said he'd do so far. And he's been stated on panel (like how you're using statements for your gamma bomb) to have Jean's TK and Prof. X's telepathy. Period. And I've shown feats for that.

Here's Mimic permanently copying the 60's X-Men powers. All before jean had the capacity to wield the phoenix force, Cyclops blast through a mountain, or Iceman could freeze anything above a building.

Nothing I showed used the phoenix force. irrelevant.

Let's be fair here, I'm not interested in convincing you of anything. Considering you lack knowledge of the subject.

So....no feats for the PSI shield thing then? Thought so.

I mean...again let's be fair here. Phoenix is telepathically resistant, Thor is telepathically resistant, etc. etc. and Prof X has penetrated their minds. Same with Mento and raven. And the empathy Nightmare is using is actually the opposite of what I'm doing. Nightmare empowered Penance basically by causing him pain, I'm using it for illusions and to knock you out, not cause you pain.

Mimic has shown none of those feats or a similar level. Nightmare has shown empathy on a planetary level (Being a fear lord), possession, & mind control. Far more versatile and powerful than Raven.

Um...those are literally Professor X feats I named. And Mimic is stated to have Professor X's telepathy. for someone that wants feats, you sure don't have any for any of your gear. You gotta pick one or the other.

And why are you comparing Nightmare's empathy to Raven's (she's on his level btw)? I didn't say her empathy is stronger, I said that the empathy you showed was circumstantial cause it was. Penance gets stronger via pain, which is what Nightmare used. I'm not using pain in this situation. Power has nothing to do with it. Your team will be shut down emotionally. Period.

I need proof for Vision tbh. I've never known him to be immune in any way. As for Cable and the others, telepaths have been felled by Prof. X and Raven before, this should be no different.

Xavier? Ha!

Yeah Xavier....it's literally official that Mimic has professor X's telepathy. Also you didn't address Raven so...concession? Probably.

It literally has NOTHING to do with being frozen or being caught and immobilized in a tornado. Especially since your own showing, vs. Juggernaut showed that powerful force still moves you while in the gamma shields, they just don't hurt. Like Magneto you'll be immobilized and suffocated (as Storm can control the air inside of the bubble).

This is irrelevant honestly seeing how storm is dead. Also considering the fact my team is on the other side of the battle field changing location by teleporting. Storm will have no knowledge of their location.

Yes she will, she senses via the weather.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

She senses a moving jet from a continent away. She'll be fine. Your team can't escape at all. She's not dead, I already showed her tanking and blowing out fire and pressure and more.

Not true. The gamma bomb has nothing that would logically kill her. Pressure? She's survived greater pressure than the bomb would give off. Plus her winds would alleviate that at least 80-90%.

Heat? Storm's highly invulnerable to heat, so that's not working either. And again, winds and ice/freezing counter that.

Radiation? Radiation is a slow killer that takes weeks to take effect.

So she'll survive fairly easily.

Go read infinity war Storm was helpless when the gamma appeared. While Sue was able to redirect the blast but still unable to contain it. Masterson Thor had to BFR it out of the atmosphere. Face it in even in the comics Storm dies.

Oh so...using PIS? Really? As if they haven't had the likes of Spider-Man beat Firelord? I guess Spidey's herald level forever now right? Get out of here.

He's stated to have Jean's Tk and she certainly has the levels to do so. Also he'll have my other people on my team's powers so winds from Storm, intangibility from Raven and Jill. He'll be fine.

The level of TK he has from Jean aka Marvel Girl will do nothing.

Um...yeah it will. I've already showed it blocking explosions greater than this small island busting nuke.

And the facts help because they show that the gamma radiation you think is so deadly....actually isn't. And with people who can block radiation with air and intangibility, as well as heal, well the bomb's nearly useless now.

Tell me how you know more about the Gamma bomb than Stark or Banner. When both admitted Banner would be dead without Stark tapering with it. You don't even know the characters you're debating for. But somehow you understand the continuity of the gamma bomb.

I do know the characters I'm debating for, and no matter what you try to claim, gamma radiation doesn't kill humans immediately and neither do nukes. Stark and Banner have been wrong plenty, so yeah I know more about it via research than the writer of that issue. Simple.

No. We can block it with TK, go intangible, block it with winds, etc. That's just a possible counter as well. Don't need luck.

Once the Gamma bomb detonates it’s too late. Nothing you have shown gives your team any chance of surviving.

Prove it. Nothing has shown the Gamma bomb to be that fast or deadly. I'll wait.

Hiroshima was city busting.....most of the damage didn't go past 5 miles (the super hot, insane damage needed to get past shields and damage anyone anyways). So it's a pretty long shot.

Little Boy was an H bomb that was air bursted hundreds of meters above ground. Now tell how a gamma bomb is the same.

Both are city busting with intense gamma radiation. They're about the same actually. unless you have something claiming they're not.

I....um...hate to break it to you but....24 hours>12 hours. So lesss than 24 hours, still can >12 hours. Like 21 or 23 or even 15 or 13 hours. That doesn't prove anything about him making a gamma bomb in 12 hours or less.

Attempting to convince you of anything is a fruitless effort. So unless you need a ruling, I’m going to move on.

So...no proof he can even make a gamma bomb in 12 hours? thought so. Concession accepted.

Nah seriously...you've proved he can teleport to his lab and back but....not that he can remotely teleport random items (especially bombs) from his lab.If you said he was going to teleport to his lab and back, then maybe but then he'd be out of the fight so...I need proof.

Banner satchel connects on his lab., all it require is Banner to use his teleporter with his hand inside. That’s honestly as simple as I can make it. Banners smart enough to reverse engineer a teleporter but not pan out that simple step. Not seeing it.

Huh? None of that is connected. Prove he can rig a teleporter to grab a bomb from his lab and shunt it onto the field (a random location). So far you've shown him teleport himself, not other things. That's like claiming Nightcrawler can teleport things with his mind because he can teleport himself. It's not matching up.

So again, prove it or the entire plan is void. You can't apparently though.

Pretty big factor. I've already proven that her storms will remain even if you could knock her out or kill her (you can't) so you'll be caught helplessly in a tornado, freezing, and being struck by lightning. None of which you showed your gamma shields can handle. In fact, the Juggernaut showing and other heavy hitters showings proved that force still moves you and...tornadoes and event he bomb you set off is a lot of force.

Non factor.

So....literally you have no counter and are just plugging your ears and saying 'lalalalalalala'. Cool. concession accepted.

Actually no. You've shown nothing and I've done research and some people have survived Hiroshima and the like just being 300 meters away. And that's without the aid of powers to block bombs or indestructible buildings blocking the bombs impact. Forgot about those?

You stating I’ve done the research implies you understand the topic & in fact apply them here.

FYI the only team that spawns inside building is mine, look at the map. You’re posing details that don’t support your team.

Huh? You realize that we spawn BEHIND buildings right? And if buildings are indestructible the force, the fire, the gamma, none of it gets by.

Nah. She's above peak human for one, two she has winds to block damage, and she's not point blank really at all. Plus you haven't proven anything about even making the gamma bomb or it's size/strength/yield/anything. Just statements about what went down when Banner accidentally got caught in an explosion from a bomb it took him forever to make. Not 12 hours.

The scan above shows the gamma bomb having the power to destroying an island. This one with easily cover the battle field.

“size/strength/yield/anything” You do understand we're discussing a fictional bomb? Maybe not considering you have an overnight degree in nuclear engineering.

As it stands right now. Mimic is useless. Storm has now way of construing city busting force. Raven, or Jill won't react to the bomb, taken out with their teammates.

Jill's unkillable, but w/e. Raven will easily react. She's reacted to faster than sound speeds, she's reacted to explosions, she's even tanked attacks from Starfire (much hotter than heat from a bomb btw).

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She could also possibly do this:

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As for Storm and city busting force....that's like the dumbest thing to say:

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Also, so you know with Jovian pressure dome (Jupiter's pressure aka 10 bar) is >>>>a nuke/city busting: as shown here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Jupiter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_nuclear_explosions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_%28unit%29

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_%28energy%29

Note that 1 second of a hurricane>>nuke by nearly 10 times (more than the 4 times you're claiming here), and a severe thunderstorm is even more. And she can conjure a Hurricane instantly, as you can see.

And if you look back at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_nuclear_explosions you'll see that

"As thermal radiation travels, more or less, in a straight line from the fireball (unless scattered) any opaque object will produce a protective shadow that provides protection from the flash burn" any building will block the heat.

"The effects of a moderate rain storm during an Operation Castle nuclear explosion was found to dampen, or reduce, peak pressure levels by approximately 15% at all ranges."

So rain aka weather diminishes the bombs effects too.

Already showed Mimic/Jean blocking far stronger attacks from Binary.

Overall

1. You've provided no feats for the PSI Shields, so they're irrelevant

2. No proof that Banner can make a gamma bomb in 12 hours nor that he can teleport things remotely from his lab

3. No counter to tornadoes, lightning, being frozen, etc. as you conceded this point

4. No counter to high level Empathy

5. the bomb would be blocked by the indestructible buildings, Storm's winds/hurricanes/fire counters/heat resistance/pressure resistance, Mimic's TK, Raven and Jill would phase

6. Then with you incapacitated, we'd calmly complete the mission as stated

Avatar image for mr_ingenuity
#14 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14551 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden:

Back up what feats? Blocking explosions? using telepathy? That's all I said he'd do so far. And he's been stated on panel (like how you're using statements for your gamma bomb) to have Jean's TK and Prof. X's telepathy. Period. And I've shown feats for that.

Unlike yourself I’ve shown statements and the feats they’re credited to. But I didn't feel the need to post any more with you ignoring everything without any factual knowledge. You've yet to show a scan with Mimic on panel let alone mentioned.

Nothing I showed used the phoenix force. irrelevant.

Capacity as in the “power to do” or for reference sake Omega level jean grey (as shown in your scans).

Mimic has pre omega level Jean TK there isn't any scan to disprove that

So....no feats for the PSI shield thing then? Thought so.

Showed it and you simply dismissed with no actual proof it but let’s repost for those with short attention spans.

Yes it's done exactly as stated, having the capacity render telepathy useless.

No Caption Provided

.

Um...those are literally Professor X feats I named. And Mimic is stated to have Professor X's telepathy. for someone that wants feats, you sure don't have any for any of your gear. You gotta pick one or the other.

Let’s come to a compromise I post every feat I can name & you follow suit. For us to see who’s actually bluffing/BS. The only way to crown a winner of this stare down.

And why are you comparing Nightmare's empathy to Raven's (she's on his level btw)? I didn't say her empathy is stronger, I said that the empathy you showed was circumstantial cause it was. Penance gets stronger via pain, which is what Nightmare used. I'm not using pain in this situation. Power has nothing to do with it. Your team will be shut down emotionally. Period.

It would only be circumstantial if nightmare hadn’t shown those feats in the circumstance posted. But Nightmare has and on top of that was warping reality & while taking out The Hood with Norn Stones (asgardian artifacts).

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

I'll post some more reality warping so you don't have to waste your time.

The above scans show Nightmare warping reality only being there mins. The scans below a few days.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Seeing as you stated Raven has nightmare level of power (she's on his level btw) she should not be allowed. @rd1027

Yeah Xavier....it's literally official that Mimic has professor X's telepathy. Also you didn't address Raven so...concession? Probably.

What am I suppose to be refusing? This is your first post with scans of Raven.

Robert has resisted Nightmare shown above.

Vision doesn't have a soul nor a brain in his current form it took Red Onslaught(planetary telepath) to affect him.

No Caption Provided

.

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Cable is an Omega level telepath who was able to fix Nate’s broken mind. While Nate was lashing out & put a severe strain on every (x-men related) telepath around the world.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
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Radioactive Man, Burce have PSI shield & Cable’s telepathy forcing out intruders.

She senses a moving jet from a continent away. She'll be fine. Your team can't escape at all. She's not dead, I already showed her tanking and blowing out fire and pressure and more.

She’s senses through air currents, considering my team is moving through teleportation from building to building she will not sense them.

Also Storm dies from a gamma bomb. The radiation, heat and force kills her. Scans below.

Oh so...using PIS? Really? As if they haven't had the likes of Spider-Man beat Firelord? I guess Spidey's herald level forever now right? Get out of here.

Plot Induced Stupidity - Describes a situation where something that should not happen logically (within the established verse), happens for the sake of the plot.

A gamma bomb would kill storm and anyone with here durability, logical. Captain America surviving a nuke, illogical/PIS.

Um...yeah it will. I've already showed it blocking explosions greater than this small island busting nuke.

No you’ve shown Jean Grey the Omega level mutant do so. Mimic wasn't present in that scan or the comic for that matter.

I do know the characters I'm debating for, and no matter what you try to claim, gamma radiation doesn't kill humans immediately and neither do nukes. Stark and Banner have been wrong plenty, so yeah I know more about it via research than the writer of that issue. Simple.

Here is where I get to have all the fun. Starting with facts & feats.

The Gamma Ray Projector is based off the Gamma bomb but repressed to reverse the change. It's only gamma radiation & has been shown to hurt Classic Hulk (easily above mountain level in durability).

No Caption Provided

.

Even a portable one can cause minor pain.

No Caption Provided

.

Now compared to Classic Hulk & Professor Hulk, Maestro is superior in most ways. Most notable radiation from nukes makes him stronger & increasing durability with a better healing factor.

No Caption Provided

.

Despite all that, the original gamma bomb still reduced him to bones taking him several years to regenerate.

No Caption Provided

.

Now the two my team has is made by a morals off Banner. As per the rules" Energy output limit is city busting/nuke, cant be higher than iron man." Which my team will follow, but the gamma radiation alone is enough to put your team down. Unless your team is above Hulk.

Prove it. Nothing has shown the Gamma bomb to be that fast or deadly. I'll wait.

Wait no more. Small gamma bomb detonated underground kills.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

With gamma rays being light speed, that is sufficient to state fast and deadly.

Both are city busting with intense gamma radiation. They're about the same actually. unless you have something claiming they're not.

Addressed.

So...no proof he can even make a gamma bomb in 12 hours? thought so. Concession accepted.

I've shown you Banner doing far more in roughly the same time with no help & less resources. Here he has Vision to call on even Cable if he so chooses.

Let’s not forget the fact that I stated Banner will be grabbing resources form SHIELD. SHIELD has gamma bombs stockpiled. But in the interest of fairness and making sure no rules are violated. "Zero outside help is allowed from your characters". Banner is only taking the materials needed to build them. Think of it as puzzle you’ve made a career out of, assembly is the eailest part.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Huh? None of that is connected. Prove he can rig a teleporter to grab a bomb from his lab and shunt it onto the field (a random location). So far you've shown him teleport himself, not other things. That's like claiming Nightcrawler can teleport things with his mind because he can teleport himself. It's not matching up.

So again, prove it or the entire plan is void. You can't apparently though.

Considering this is part of the compromise I'll address this. Also Both of your teams will be supplied with a tactical view of the battlefield not a random location.

No Caption Provided

Teleports A-Bomb, Skaar, & Korg.

No Caption Provided

.

So....literally you have no counter and are just plugging your ears and saying 'lalalalalalala'. Cool. concession accepted.

Because you never addressed my strategy you forgot there isn’t any plausible way for storm to harm my team. They're in indestructible buildings (as you put it) fortified with force fields & receiving needed amount of air form Cable. Who was shown to be KOed while submerged, safe with sufficient air.

The only characters exiting is Radioactive Man & Vision. Both of which can withstand Storm’s attacks. Vision by phasing while attacking your team with Nanites. Radioactive Man with Banner tech, & durability. Radioactive Man has the same method of attack as the gamma bomb.

Huh? You realize that we spawn BEHIND buildings right? And if buildings are indestructible the force, the fire, the gamma, none of it gets by.

No Caption Provided

You know that was proven false many years ago right?

Jill's unkillable, but w/e. Raven will easily react. She's reacted to faster than sound speeds, she's reacted to explosions, she's even tanked attacks from Starfire (much hotter than heat from a bomb btw). She could also possibly do this:

Jill would be against the rules then because even deadpool can die.

Raven hasn't shown to tank anything close to a gamma bomb, and from your scans would die once her intangibility needed cool down.

Also, so you know with Jovian pressure dome (Jupiter's pressure aka 10 bar) is >>>>a nuke/city busting: as shown here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Jupiter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_nuclear_explosions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_%28unit%29

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_%28energy%29

Note that 1 second of a hurricane>>nuke by nearly 10 times (more than the 4 times you're claiming here), and a severe thunderstorm is even more. And she can conjure a Hurricane instantly, as you can see.

And if you look back at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_nuclear_explosions you'll see that

"As thermal radiation travels, more or less, in a straight line from the fireball (unless scattered) any opaque object will produce a protective shadow that provides protection from the flash burn" any building will block the heat.

"The effects of a moderate rain storm during an Operation Castle nuclear explosion was found to dampen, or reduce, peak pressure levels by approximately 15% at all ranges."

So rain aka weather diminishes the bombs effects too.

Irrelevant.

So rain aka weather diminishes the bombs effects too.

Already showed Mimic/Jean blocking far stronger attacks from Binary.

Addressed.

Avatar image for darkraiden
#15 Edited by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity:

Unlike yourself I’ve shown statements and the feats they’re credited to. But I didn't feel the need to post any more with you ignoring everything without any factual knowledge. You've yet to show a scan with Mimic on panel let alone mentioned.

I showed Mimic being stated to have Jean's TK. Which is what I'm using. I don't need anymore than that.

Nothing I showed used the phoenix force. irrelevant.

Capacity as in the “power to do” or for reference sake Omega level jean grey (as shown in your scans).

Mimic has pre omega level Jean TK there isn't any scan to disprove that

Nothing I showed mentioned Jean needing Phoenix to do it. She's always been Omega level, and I even showed feats when she was exactly the same as when Mimic coped her, when she blocked those explosions.

So....no feats for the PSI shield thing then? Thought so.

Showed it and you simply dismissed with no actual proof it but let’s repost for those with short attention spans.

Yes it's done exactly as stated, having the capacity render telepathy useless.

It's done nothing. That's a featless telepath. Show it work against someone like Professor X. And I've already addressed how telepathic resistance doesn't do much with Prof X having feats against telepathically resistant people and so does Raven.

Let’s come to a compromise I post every feat I can name & you follow suit. For us to see who’s actually bluffing/BS. The only way to crown a winner of this stare down.

No idea what you're saying....if you're talking about posting feats I talk about, then sure.

It would only be circumstantial if nightmare hadn’t shown those feats in the circumstance posted. But Nightmare has and on top of that was warping reality & while taking out The Hood with Norn Stones (asgardian artifacts).

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3Gallery image 4Gallery image 5Gallery image 6

I'll post some more reality warping so you don't have to waste your time.

The above scans show Nightmare warping reality only being there mins. The scans below a few days.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Seeing as you stated Raven has nightmare level of power (she's on his level btw) she should not be allowed. @rd1027

None of that is relevant to what we're discussing. I'll list it for you to make it easy to see and comprehend.

1. Nightmare used Empathy to cause Penance pain

2. Penance gets stronger/reinvigorated from pain

3. Raven will be using Empathy to shut him down, not cause him pain

4. thus Penance won't get stronger/reinvigorated, only shut down.

And I said Raven was on Nightmare's level with Empathy. Context. Never said she was skyfather level. Gotta read and comprehend better.

Vision doesn't have a soul nor a brain in his current form it took Red Onslaught(planetary telepath) to affect him.

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Um....that's irrelevant. You showed Vision resist possession aka soul stuff. I'm not trying to possess you, only affect your mind and emotions, both things Vision has. Plus I do have a hilarious scan of Prof X taking down a Sentinel with TP, but it....it's pretty ridiculous. But if you want to go there....

Cable is an Omega level telepath who was able to fix Nate’s broken mind. While Nate was lashing out & put a severe strain on every (x-men related) telepath around the world.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3
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Radioactive Man, Burce have PSI shield & Cable’s telepathy forcing out intruders.

Eh...that's a decent feat, but it wasn't even exclaimed to be all that difficult. It didn't show resistance nor power, only skill. And something Emma Frost has done as well except to an in control Nate (aka harder opponent) and she's usually considered weaker than Xavier, though she's had some victories.

She senses a moving jet from a continent away. She'll be fine. Your team can't escape at all. She's not dead, I already showed her tanking and blowing out fire and pressure and more.

She’s senses through air currents, considering my team is moving through teleportation from building to building she will not sense them.

Also Storm dies from a gamma bomb. The radiation, heat and force kills her. Scans below.

If you're displacing any air (which you are by existing/moving/standing/breathing), she'll sense you. You can't occupy space without displacing air, so that doesn't help you.

Oh so...using PIS? Really? As if they haven't had the likes of Spider-Man beat Firelord? I guess Spidey's herald level forever now right? Get out of here.

Plot Induced Stupidity - Describes a situation where something that should not happen logically (within the established verse), happens for the sake of the plot.

A gamma bomb would kill storm and anyone with here durability, logical. Captain America surviving a nuke, illogical/PIS.

No. A gamma bomb has less pressure than she's survived, less energy than she can create in less than a conscious though, heat that she's immune to, and has nothing that can hurt her. It killing her would be PIS. Just like Spidey and Firelord.

Um...yeah it will. I've already showed it blocking explosions greater than this small island busting nuke.

No you’ve shown Jean Grey the Omega level mutant do so. Mimic wasn't present in that scan or the comic for that matter.

Mimic has everything he needs from that scan, Jean's TK. Something he's stated to have.

I do know the characters I'm debating for, and no matter what you try to claim, gamma radiation doesn't kill humans immediately and neither do nukes. Stark and Banner have been wrong plenty, so yeah I know more about it via research than the writer of that issue. Simple.

Here is where I get to have all the fun. Starting with facts & feats.

The Gamma Ray Projector is based off the Gamma bomb but repressed to reverse the change. It's only gamma radiation & has been shown to hurt Classic Hulk (easily above mountain level in durability).

Even a portable one can cause minor pain.

Now compared to Classic Hulk & Professor Hulk, Maestro is superior in most ways. Most notable radiation from nukes makes him stronger & increasing durability with a better healing factor.

Despite all that, the original gamma bomb still reduced him to bones taking him several years to regenerate.

Now the two my team has is made by a morals off Banner. As per the rules" Energy output limit is city busting/nuke, cant be higher than iron man." Which my team will follow, but the gamma radiation alone is enough to put your team down. Unless your team is above Hulk.

1. Hulk has had a weakness/vulnerability to gamma rays that turned into an empowerment. Gamma Rays hurting hulk means nothing compared to hurting my team. IIRC they used to turn him into Banner.

2. As for things hurting Hulk, are we supposed to assume everything that hurts Hulk is suddenly mountain busting? Wolverine, Spider-Man, Captain America, the occasional bullet, a circus Snake, the Thing, Namor, etc. I can go on and on. Hurting Hulk doesn't make your bomb all that strong. And if it's nuke level, I've already proven Storm's hurricanes/winds/weather can not only block, but weaken nukes. And she can counter every part of a nuke.

3. Maestro only had 5 durability from what you posted, which is only bullet proof. Not impressive.

4. Storm has hurt/overpowered Hulk like I said:

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So at worst, that brings them back to even or her powers as >>>the gamma bomb. Like I've been saying.

Prove it. Nothing has shown the Gamma bomb to be that fast or deadly. I'll wait.

Wait no more. Small gamma bomb detonated underground kills.

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With gamma rays being light speed, that is sufficient to state fast and deadly.

I'm not gonna lie to you. Not only is that not quantifiable in speed or power, but it shows virtually nothing that you said it could do.

Both are city busting with intense gamma radiation. They're about the same actually. unless you have something claiming they're not.

Addressed.

Not....really? At all?

So...no proof he can even make a gamma bomb in 12 hours? thought so. Concession accepted.

I've shown you Banner doing far more in roughly the same time with no help & less resources. Here he has Vision to call on even Cable if he so chooses.

No...no you didn't. You showed him doing more....in more time. With possibly more resources (Iron man and whatnot were there). It's really, really irrelevant the more you think about it.

Let’s not forget the fact that I stated Banner will be grabbing resources form SHIELD. SHIELD has gamma bombs stockpiled. But in the interest of fairness and making sure no rules are violated. "Zero outside help is allowed from your characters". Banner is only taking the materials needed to build them. Think of it as puzzle you’ve made a career out of, assembly is the eailest part.

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I....am lost. how does a random gamma bomb facility help Bruce? How does Fing Fang Foom easily consuming them convince me of their power?

Huh? None of that is connected. Prove he can rig a teleporter to grab a bomb from his lab and shunt it onto the field (a random location). So far you've shown him teleport himself, not other things. That's like claiming Nightcrawler can teleport things with his mind because he can teleport himself. It's not matching up.

So again, prove it or the entire plan is void. You can't apparently though.

Considering this is part of the compromise I'll address this. Also Both of your teams will be supplied with a tactical view of the battlefield not a random location.

Yeah....he said a tactical view and no other knowledge. You don't know where we will appear....that's a fact. So that doesn't help you. You're still guessing a random location to try and teleport things to.

So....literally you have no counter and are just plugging your ears and saying 'lalalalalalala'. Cool. concession accepted.

Because you never addressed my strategy you forgot there isn’t any plausible way for storm to harm my team. They're in indestructible buildings (as you put it) fortified with force fields & receiving needed amount of air form Cable. Who was shown to be KOed while submerged, safe with sufficient air.

The only characters exiting is Radioactive Man & Vision. Both of which can withstand Storm’s attacks. Vision by phasing while attacking your team with Nanites. Radioactive Man with Banner tech, & durability. Radioactive Man has the same method of attack as the gamma bomb.

Um...Storm can make hurricanes/tornadoes/etc. Inside. She can also just cover the building with a tornado which means you can't leave. Hell I've shown her covering the whole town. And Vision runs on power, something Storm controls. It's not gonna work for him. Neither would the nanites anyways as Storm would sense/see them and the rest of the team is already intangible/doing the mission.

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Huh? You realize that we spawn BEHIND buildings right? And if buildings are indestructible the force, the fire, the gamma, none of it gets by.

You know that was proven false many years ago right?

You realize duck and cover proves my point? People used to duck and cover and be killed because of the collapsing buildings/structures, the main way they died. In this case, the buildings ARE actually useful since they're indestructible.

Jill would be against the rules then because even deadpool can die.

Raven hasn't shown to tank anything close to a gamma bomb, and from your scans would die once her intangibility needed cool down.

Jill doesn't regen anywhere as good as him. I don't eve know if she really regens, more like....just can't die. She's an immortal vengeance ghost spirit thing. So she actually doesn't break any regen rules.

As for Raven...um what? I showed her tanking Starfire's bolts like nothing. You know Starfire? Took down Braniac, KO'd a WW clone before, disintegrates everything with her beams (stuff nukes leave in tact), vaporizes bullets, etc.?

She's easily tanking the gamma bomb, especially a minute after it's finished exploding. Se could also just teleport to avoid it or use her souls self as a shield....which I showed her doing.

Also, so you know with Jovian pressure dome (Jupiter's pressure aka 10 bar) is >>>>a nuke/city busting: as shown here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosphere_of_Jupiter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_nuclear_explosions

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_%28unit%29

Also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_%28energy%29

Note that 1 second of a hurricane>>nuke by nearly 10 times (more than the 4 times you're claiming here), and a severe thunderstorm is even more. And she can conjure a Hurricane instantly, as you can see.

And if you look back at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_nuclear_explosions you'll see that

"As thermal radiation travels, more or less, in a straight line from the fireball (unless scattered) any opaque object will produce a protective shadow that provides protection from the flash burn" any building will block the heat.

"The effects of a moderate rain storm during an Operation Castle nuclear explosion was found to dampen, or reduce, peak pressure levels by approximately 15% at all ranges."

So rain aka weather diminishes the bombs effects too.

Irrelevant.

Hahahaha no. That showed that

1. Hurricane = more energy than a nuke and thus more than a gamma bomb

2. Buildings/any object blocks the heat

3. Weather lessens your bombs effects

4. Storm has survived greater pressure than the bomb outputs.

That literally negates everything about your bomb.

So rain aka weather diminishes the bombs effects too.

Already showed Mimic/Jean blocking far stronger attacks from Binary.

Addressed.

No....no it wasn't.

So again:

Summary

1. You've provided no feats for the PSI Shields, so they're irrelevant. By no feats I mean against a powerful telepath.

2. No proof that Banner can make a gamma bomb in 12 hours nor that he can teleport things remotely from his lab. By teleport things from his lab I mean that he can teleport people/objects to foreign places from a foreign place. If Bruce can sit at Taco Bell and teleport a missile to China, show me. That's what I want to see.

3. No counter to tornadoes, lightning, being frozen, etc. as you conceded this point. Your weak building strategy doesn't change that.

4. No counter to high level Empathy when it's not feeding you pain aka your power source at the time

5. the bomb would be blocked by the indestructible buildings, Storm's winds/hurricanes/fire counters/heat resistance/pressure resistance, Mimic's TK, Raven and Jill would phase. This is still up and still proven.

6. Then with you incapacitated, we'd calmly complete the mission as stated

Avatar image for mr_ingenuity
#17 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14551 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden:

Closing

I showed Mimic being stated to have Jean's TK. Which is what I'm using. I don't need anymore than that.

Unsurprisingly the only scan you've shown of Mimic’s TK is from X-Men 29 where he could only block one of Super Adaptoid's arrows.

Fast forward to the 1990’s and this is the best he can do.

Lifts Blob.

No Caption Provided

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Block debris.

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Nothing I showed mentioned Jean needing Phoenix to do it. She's always been Omega level, and I even showed feats when she was exactly the same as when Mimic coped her, when she blocked those explosions.

Mimic has nowhere near Jean’s power. The last time they've been in the same comic X-Men 31, & exact issue he copied Jean’s powers X-Men 19. The feats you've shown for Jean X-Men Unlimited 13. Bet you didn't know any of this huh.

Mimic states himself “Just a pale reflection of someone else.” Clearly you put a lot of stock into Iceman’s statement back in the 60’s, so Mimic’s statement should mean that much more.

No Caption Provided

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It's done nothing. That's a featless telepath. Show it work against someone like Professor X. And I've already addressed how telepathic resistance doesn't do much with Prof X having feats against telepathically resistant people and so does Raven.

Mimic doesn't have Xavier level of telepathy nor the range. His best feat control the Blob, who wasn't resisting. And if we go by current versions Mimic has no telepathy to speak of having to copy Rachel.

No Caption Provided

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Cable stomps him in every way. Essentially my team doesn't need PSI shields there isn’t any way Mimic, survives the bomb or gets passed Cables telepathy.

Nothing has be shown for Raven’s Empathy. While Cable has broken Hulk out of Onslaught’s mind control, on top of that shown he fix a psyche. Raven will need a far superior feat than rendering characters unconscious.

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After Cable gets in Onslaught still has control.

No Caption Provided

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None of that is relevant to what we're discussing. I'll list it for you to make it easy to see and comprehend.

My comprehension exceed yours being that I know the characters, & read the instance. Meaning none of what you cite is correct .

1. Nightmare used Empathy to cause Penance pain

No, Nightmare used empathy to make Robert lose control, shutting him down.

2. Penance gets stronger/reinvigorated from pain

Penance gets stronger form physical pain it’s how he activates and maintains his powers. Even when he no longer needed pain to activate he still needs pain to make them stronger. Shown in fear itself and avengers academy.

3. Raven will be using Empathy to shut him down, not cause him pain

Feats for Raven getting pass cable’s telepathy. With that feats shutting characters down.

4. thus Penance won't get stronger/reinvigorated, only shut down.

Unproven in the slightest.

And I said Raven was on Nightmare's level with Empathy. Context. Never said she was skyfather level. Gotta read and comprehend better.

There are only two reason you keep bringing my compression into question. You know nothing of Nightmare or you’re trying to conceal Raven’s disqualification.

But if Raven is indeed on Nightmare level then she should be disqualified.

Nightmare in the real world has the accumulated power of "humanity's subconscious"

No Caption Provided

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That is the level of Nightmare’s empathy. @rd1027

Um....that's irrelevant. You showed Vision resist possession aka soul stuff. I'm not trying to possess you, only affect your mind and emotions, both things Vision has. Plus I do have a hilarious scan of Prof X taking down a Sentinel with TP, but it....it's pretty ridiculous. But if you want to go there....

Vision has resisted telepathic & empathic control simply because his brain is made of circuitry. Only currently has it been shown to affect him.

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Eh...that's a decent feat, but it wasn't even exclaimed to be all that difficult. It didn't show resistance nor power, only skill. And something Emma Frost has done as well except to an in control Nate (aka harder opponent) and she's usually considered weaker than Xavier, though she's had some victories.

Emma Frost never battled Nate in telepathy, the feat you cite is out of context.

No Caption Provided

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If you're displacing any air (which you are by existing/moving/standing/breathing), she'll sense you. You can't occupy space without displacing air, so that doesn't help you.

The feat you showed was the blackbird moving through the upperatomaphere where Storm has psionic control of the weather. The only reason why she sensed it.

No. A gamma bomb has less pressure than she's survived, less energy than she can create in less than a conscious though, heat that she's immune to, and has nothing that can hurt her. It killing her would be PIS. Just like Spidey and Firelord.

Siena Blaze one shotted storm in your own scans without effort. But some how Storm but some how storm will survive.

Mimic has everything he needs from that scan, Jean's TK. Something he's stated to have.

Statements < feats.

1. Hulk has had a weakness/vulnerability to gamma rays that turned into an empowerment. Gamma Rays hurting hulk means nothing compared to hurting my team. IIRC they used to turn him into Banner.

Hulk isn't vulnerable to gamma rays, he needs the necessary durability to resist their effects. But in the instances I've shown it was a forcible change to Banner, but the pain was from the gamma ray physically hurting him. Not Hulk mentally resisting Banner.

2. As for things hurting Hulk, are we supposed to assume everything that hurts Hulk is suddenly mountain busting? Wolverine, Spider-Man, Captain America, the occasional bullet, a circus Snake, the Thing, Namor, etc. I can go on and on. Hurting Hulk doesn't make your bomb all that strong. And if it's nuke level, I've already proven Storm's hurricanes/winds/weather can not only block, but weaken nukes. And she can counter every part of a nuke.

The assuming you are suggesting is scaling & done without sufficient feats. Gamma radiation has shown to hurt the Hulk and bombs destroy city to island level areas. No assuming nassary. So keep going it won't prove any of your points.

3. Maestro only had 5 durability from what you posted, which is only bullet proof. Not impressive.

Low balling to the maximum. When Strom's durability is only 2, one shotted by a rock thrown by Hulk. While Maestro slugged it out with Professor Hulk & was bath in acid.

4. Storm has hurt/overpowered Hulk like I said:

So at worst, that brings them back to even or her powers as >>>the gamma bomb. Like I've been saying.

All of these are out of context.

First two scans is Strom using winds to push him away neither of those instances was he aware of Storm until that scan.

The third is similar but in that scan he was fighting Cable, not paying attention (the narration is cable).

The fourth & final are only due to cable's help of guiding her lighting deep into Hulk's brain & Cable's PSI blast weakening Hulk.

No Caption Provided

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But you didn't bother to read the stories form the scans you've posted. Pray tell of your in depth knowledge of these characters.

I....am lost. how does a random gamma bomb facility help Bruce? How does Fing Fang Foom easily consuming them convince me of their power?

It clearly corroborates my claims of gamma bombs being stockpile, materials that Banner will easily gain access to, for fast assembly.

Yeah....he said a tactical view and no other knowledge. You don't know where we will appear....that's a fact. So that doesn't help you. You're still guessing a random location to try and teleport things to.

Banner wasn't present when Korg, Skaar, & A-Bomb where teleported he was on the other side of the planet. Nothing is random my team has sensors that can perceive the quantum level. How can Banner miscalculate that level of detail.

Um...Storm can make hurricanes/tornadoes/etc. Inside. She can also just cover the building with a tornado which means you can't leave. Hell I've shown her covering the whole town. And Vision runs on power, something Storm controls. It's not gonna work for him. Neither would the nanites anyways as Storm would sense/see them and the rest of the team is already intangible/doing the mission.

Vision can be intangible, doesn't need air & has flow faster than mach 10. With the use sensors Radioactive Man can teleport to any that survivors. Storms are a non factor.

Vision runs of solar power and he recently absorb mass amounts. Storm will not be able to manipulate Vision power source, considering her only means to do so is short circuiting or emp Vision. Spending weeks orbiting the sun puts that far below him.

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Nanites are imperceivable to your team and with only 1 minute of instability 30 sec cooldown Vision has a clear window of attack.

Jill doesn't regen anywhere as good as him. I don't eve know if she really regens, more like....just can't die. She's an immortal vengeance ghost spirit thing. So she actually doesn't break any regen rules.

As for Raven...um what? I showed her tanking Starfire's bolts like nothing. You know Starfire? Took down Braniac, KO'd a WW clone before, disintegrates everything with her beams (stuff nukes leave in tact), vaporizes bullets, etc.?

She's easily tanking the gamma bomb, especially a minute after it's finished exploding. Se could also just teleport to avoid it or use her souls self as a shield....which I showed her doing.

Jill can't die doesn't mean she can't be incapacitated form an bomb of this magnitude. Seeing as she has no feats to speak of it's only logical she's taken out.

If Raven soul counts as instability it won't function after the bomb, doubtfully she survives. But if it's BFR then it doesn't function against Vision.

Hahahaha no. That showed that

1. Hurricane = more energy than a nuke and thus more than a gamma bomb

2. Buildings/any object blocks the heat

3. Weather lessens your bombs effects

4. Storm has survived greater pressure than the bomb outputs.

That literally negates everything about your bomb.

Gamma bombs is far more potent than a nuke it has feats.

Heat can't be blocked as the air itself is heated to extreme temps.

Storm has shown no such level under her own power.

One shotted by Siena Blaze.

On top of all this Storm lacks the reaction speed to survive a bomb she doesn't know is coming.

Avatar image for darkraiden
#18 Edited by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity:

Closing

I showed Mimic being stated to have Jean's TK. Which is what I'm using. I don't need anymore than that.

Unsurprisingly the only scan you've shown of Mimic’s TK is from X-Men 29 where he could only block one of Super Adaptoid's arrows.

Fast forward to the 1990’s and this is the best he can do.

Lifts Blob.

Block debris.

You realize that lifting Blob is impressive right? Even Hulk has had trouble moving him (he's done it, but it took multiple times and some anger).

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Grey Hulk had to goad Blob into moving himself.

Nothing I showed mentioned Jean needing Phoenix to do it. She's always been Omega level, and I even showed feats when she was exactly the same as when Mimic coped her, when she blocked those explosions.

Mimic has nowhere near Jean’s power. The last time they've been in the same comic X-Men 31, & exact issue he copied Jean’s powers X-Men 19. The feats you've shown for Jean X-Men Unlimited 13. Bet you didn't know any of this huh.

Mimic states himself “Just a pale reflection of someone else.” Clearly you put a lot of stock into Iceman’s statement back in the 60’s, so Mimic’s statement should mean that much more.

Jean's TK didn't get stronger in that time, at least not officially. There's a reason I didn't use super Jean feats because she got way stronger. The feats I used were Jean at the same power level more or less.

Mimic said he's a pale reflection because he doesn't get the person's 'special stuff' or their personality. He still stated he has ALL of their powers and skills though. This statement only helps me.

It's done nothing. That's a featless telepath. Show it work against someone like Professor X. And I've already addressed how telepathic resistance doesn't do much with Prof X having feats against telepathically resistant people and so does Raven.

Mimic doesn't have Xavier level of telepathy nor the range. His best feat control the Blob, who wasn't resisting. And if we go by current versions Mimic has no telepathy to speak of having to copy Rachel.

Not true. He also controlled Super Adaptoid (who is a machine like Vision btw and had the powers of Captain America who has huge TP defense) and controlled Cyclops:

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Cable stomps him in every way. Essentially my team doesn't need PSI shields there isn’t any way Mimic, survives the bomb or gets passed Cables telepathy.

Nothing has be shown for Raven’s Empathy. While Cable has broken Hulk out of Onslaught’s mind control, on top of that shown he fix a psyche. Raven will need a far superior feat than rendering characters unconscious.

Breaking control is now good? Raven does that easily as well

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And I said Raven was on Nightmare's level with Empathy. Context. Never said she was skyfather level. Gotta read and comprehend better.

There are only two reason you keep bringing my compression into question. You know nothing of Nightmare or you’re trying to conceal Raven’s disqualification.

But if Raven is indeed on Nightmare level then she should be disqualified.

Nightmare in the real world has the accumulated power of "humanity's subconscious"

That is the level of Nightmare’s empathy. @rd1027

Um....that's irrelevant. You showed Vision resist possession aka soul stuff. I'm not trying to possess you, only affect your mind and emotions, both things Vision has. Plus I do have a hilarious scan of Prof X taking down a Sentinel with TP, but it....it's pretty ridiculous. But if you want to go there....

Vision has resisted telepathic & empathic control simply because his brain is made of circuitry. Only currently has it been shown to affect him.

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Cool, see the Mimic, Super Adaptoid feat. Plus we've seen him affected by a telepath on Professor X's level which Mimic is.

Eh...that's a decent feat, but it wasn't even exclaimed to be all that difficult. It didn't show resistance nor power, only skill. And something Emma Frost has done as well except to an in control Nate (aka harder opponent) and she's usually considered weaker than Xavier, though she's had some victories.

Emma Frost never battled Nate in telepathy, the feat you cite is out of context.

Neither did Cable. And I never said she battled him, only exhibited the same control Cable did but to a better Nate.

If you're displacing any air (which you are by existing/moving/standing/breathing), she'll sense you. You can't occupy space without displacing air, so that doesn't help you.

The feat you showed was the blackbird moving through the upperatomaphere where Storm has psionic control of the weather. The only reason why she sensed it.

Not true. I also showed her sensing people simply by them displacing the air.

Siena Blaze one shotted storm in your own scans without effort. But some how Storm but some how storm will survive.

Did you read the scans? Sienna blaze has the power to rip the planet in half. That's approximately millions of millions times stronger than said gamma bomb. And Storm's winds still were able to funnel out her powers without much trouble. Her winds controlled and contained near planetary power.

Statements < feats.

True. But statements still count. Unless there's feats to contradict the statement....which there isn't. Especially since the statements corroborate with the very way Mimic's powers even function.

1. Hulk has had a weakness/vulnerability to gamma rays that turned into an empowerment. Gamma Rays hurting hulk means nothing compared to hurting my team. IIRC they used to turn him into Banner.

Hulk isn't vulnerable to gamma rays, he needs the necessary durability to resist their effects. But in the instances I've shown it was a forcible change to Banner, but the pain was from the gamma ray physically hurting him. Not Hulk mentally resisting Banner.

Hulk has always been vulnerable to Gamma Rays. Always. They turn him into Banner, they depowered and repowered him for a while, meaning he's more vulnerable than the average person.

2. As for things hurting Hulk, are we supposed to assume everything that hurts Hulk is suddenly mountain busting? Wolverine, Spider-Man, Captain America, the occasional bullet, a circus Snake, the Thing, Namor, etc. I can go on and on. Hurting Hulk doesn't make your bomb all that strong. And if it's nuke level, I've already proven Storm's hurricanes/winds/weather can not only block, but weaken nukes. And she can counter every part of a nuke.

The assuming you are suggesting is scaling & done without sufficient feats. Gamma radiation has shown to hurt the Hulk and bombs destroy city to island level areas. No assuming nassary. So keep going it won't prove any of your points.

Hurting Hulk isn't as impressive as you make it seen as I've shown. The bomb destroyed an unspecified amount of land, but regardless has less kinetic energy than a hurricane as I've already proved. Plus Storm's powers go far beyond island level and she can create a City-wide hurricane in less than a second.

3. Maestro only had 5 durability from what you posted, which is only bullet proof. Not impressive.

Low balling to the maximum. When Strom's durability is only 2, one shotted by a rock thrown by Hulk. While Maestro slugged it out with Professor Hulk & was bath in acid.

That's not lowballing, just noticing that Maestro had less durability than normal Hulk seems to. Storm's durability is a 2 and rocks hurt her....duh. specially when thrown by Hulk. Her winds however can block far more. As I've shown.

Also that was done by a writer who tried to make nukes serious threats IIRC. Like when Professor/Maestro Hulk fought Warrior Madness Thor and....a nuke threatened to kill them. Something that is inconsistent with their history of durability.

4. Storm has hurt/overpowered Hulk like I said:

So at worst, that brings them back to even or her powers as >>>the gamma bomb. Like I've been saying.

All of these are out of context.

First two scans is Strom using winds to push him away neither of those instances was he aware of Storm until that scan.

The third is similar but in that scan he was fighting Cable, not paying attention (the narration is cable).

The fourth & final are only due to cable's help of guiding her lighting deep into Hulk's brain & Cable's PSI blast weakening Hulk.

Hulk was jumping towards her as WWHulk, he certainly knew she was there.

Also it was even stated on panel that Storm shorted out Hulk's synapses which actually allowed Cable to do what he did. So the other way around, she aided Cable.

I....am lost. how does a random gamma bomb facility help Bruce? How does Fing Fang Foom easily consuming them convince me of their power?

It clearly corroborates my claims of gamma bombs being stockpile, materials that Banner will easily gain access to, for fast assembly.

No it doesn't. Because Bruce only has access to his own lab (not to mention it was stated at the end of that scan that there were No gamma bombs left). You'd have to show/prove that Bruce has the materials in his lab and that he can make it in 12 hours. Something you've yet to show.

Yeah....he said a tactical view and no other knowledge. You don't know where we will appear....that's a fact. So that doesn't help you. You're still guessing a random location to try and teleport things to.

Banner wasn't present when Korg, Skaar, & A-Bomb where teleported he was on the other side of the planet. Nothing is random my team has sensors that can perceive the quantum level. How can Banner miscalculate that level of detail.

Wasn't Banner in his lab? Either way, perceiving on the quantum level doesn't help you know where the area is, help you teleport a bomb in from your lab (yet to be proven), or let you know where my team will appear as soon as the battle starts as you claim will happen. And if you take any time to figure out these things.....BOOM! Storm has put like siz different storms and affects on you and Raven and Mimic have shut down your minds.

Um...Storm can make hurricanes/tornadoes/etc. Inside. She can also just cover the building with a tornado which means you can't leave. Hell I've shown her covering the whole town. And Vision runs on power, something Storm controls. It's not gonna work for him. Neither would the nanites anyways as Storm would sense/see them and the rest of the team is already intangible/doing the mission.

Vision can be intangible, doesn't need air & has flow faster than mach 10. With the use sensors Radioactive Man can teleport to any that survivors. Storms are a non factor.

What does any of that have to do with Vision being trapped in a tornado the millisecond the battle starts? What can Vision even do to Storm? He's much slower than the likes of Cyclop's beam so he's not surprising her, and she's dealt with close range phasers before.

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As shown there, lightning has knocked him out of phased state, so she can easily do it as well. She can then just freeze him/strike him with lightning, or let her winds do the work.

And Storm can see the world as energy so she won't have any problems with seeing his frequency or the nanites:

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Nanites are imperceivable to your team and with only 1 minute of instability 30 sec cooldown Vision has a clear window of attack.

Nah, Storm can sense them, see them, and Raven can pre-cog or sense them.

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Jill doesn't regen anywhere as good as him. I don't eve know if she really regens, more like....just can't die. She's an immortal vengeance ghost spirit thing. So she actually doesn't break any regen rules.

As for Raven...um what? I showed her tanking Starfire's bolts like nothing. You know Starfire? Took down Braniac, KO'd a WW clone before, disintegrates everything with her beams (stuff nukes leave in tact), vaporizes bullets, etc.?

She's easily tanking the gamma bomb, especially a minute after it's finished exploding. Se could also just teleport to avoid it or use her souls self as a shield....which I showed her doing.

Jill can't die doesn't mean she can't be incapacitated form an bomb of this magnitude. Seeing as she has no feats to speak of it's only logical she's taken out.

If Raven soul counts as instability it won't function after the bomb, doubtfully she survives. But if it's BFR then it doesn't function against Vision.

Raven's Soul Self does all of the above. It can be intangibility, BFR, and TK. She'll easily survive against the bomb, Starfire's beams are more impressive and she easily tanked those.

Hahahaha no. That showed that

1. Hurricane = more energy than a nuke and thus more than a gamma bomb

2. Buildings/any object blocks the heat

3. Weather lessens your bombs effects

4. Storm has survived greater pressure than the bomb outputs.

That literally negates everything about your bomb.

Gamma bombs is far more potent than a nuke it has feats.

Heat can't be blocked as the air itself is heated to extreme temps.

Storm has shown no such level under her own power.

One shotted by Siena Blaze.

On top of all this Storm lacks the reaction speed to survive a bomb she doesn't know is coming.

1. The Gamma Bomb has nothing more potent than a nuke via feats. At all.

2. It was literally stated that the buildings block the heat (air/heated air travels which is what gets victims of the bombs. Duh) in what happens when bombs hit. So you're wrong again.

3. Storm hasn't shown control of rain and the weather? Now you're just reaching

4. Storm has still survived greater pressure than a bomb outputs. And again, Sienna Blaze = can tear the planet in two>>>>>>>>Gamma Bomb.

5. She's blocked lightspeed attacks from Cyclops and the bomb takes time to get to her. So wrong again. She's also dealt with speedsters, her powers activate at the speed of thought, AND I've shown her survive everything the bomb has to offer and more. Heat/Fire and Pressure/force.

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Weird how this still stands:

Summary

1. You've provided no feats for the PSI Shields, so they're irrelevant. By no feats I mean against a powerful telepath.

2. No proof that Banner can make a gamma bomb in 12 hours nor that he can teleport things remotely from his lab. By teleport things from his lab I mean that he can teleport people/objects to foreign places from a foreign place. If Bruce can sit at Taco Bell and teleport a missile to China, show me. That's what I want to see.

3. No counter to tornadoes, lightning, being frozen, etc. as you conceded this point. Your weak building strategy doesn't change that.

4. No counter to high level Empathy when it's not feeding you pain aka your power source at the time

5. the bomb would be blocked by the indestructible buildings, Storm's winds/hurricanes/fire counters/heat resistance/pressure resistance, Mimic's TK, Raven and Jill would phase. This is still up and still proven.

6. Then with you incapacitated, we'd calmly complete the mission as stated

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#19 Posted by ShazamFan666 (560 posts) - - Show Bio

Boy, this was long.

@darkraiden gets my vote for good stamina and countering his counters.

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#20 Posted by beatboks1 (9763 posts) - - Show Bio

My vote goes to @mr_ingenuity. @darkraiden didn't actually counter most of his debate and instead relied of feats for other charcters to show what his characters could do, that is outside the capabilty of those characters.

Mimic doesn't and has never had the powers of Current Jean Grey or Xavier and could only ever claim the feats of the classic versions which were very pale by comparison.Using the feats of Pheonix level Jean or anything above Classic Xmen jean (which were frankly pathetic) was simply a fail and completely unsupported even after Mr I called him on it.

Trying to compare real world nuclear bomb to a fictional gamma bomb with demostrated vastly greater (and well known) destructive capacity was also a failed attempt which didn't counter any of the arguments given.

Trying to claim the defense of the indestructible buildings that only advantaged his adversary based on spawning points was also a huge stretch, but the line was simply pushed harder when called.

Honestly I was very disappointed with DR's debate in this one he normally does much better and seemed to rely on misinformation. Continually mentioning Raven and Xavier in the same statement of Psionic level when they are leagues apart is a perfect example. Psionically Raven isn't even a match for Psimon of the Fearsome Five. Psimon is barely above Psylocke in TP and I can show many dozens of scans for him easily overpowering Raven.

It honestly felt as though DR came into the debate with a strategy in mind and never once made adjustments for anything raised by Mr I

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#21 Edited by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: I never equated Raven to prof. X, never used phoenix Jean's feats. Made many adjustments. Also I compared it to a nuke because...that's the limits to this tourney *thumbs up*

@shazamfan666: Thanks for the vote.

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#22 Posted by DedmanWalkin (4157 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: I would concur with most of what you said.

@darkraiden: Mimic is a bad choice for a power absorber. His Psyche weakens him drastically. You need someone on the team to stabilize his psyche in order to use him in this fashion.

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#23 Posted by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio
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#24 Posted by DedmanWalkin (4157 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: You did a great disservice to Raven by removing her morality. No morality and she gives into the darkness making her unstable. An unstable character cannot fix an unstable character. It is the blind leading the blind. As I said, ultimately your team construction just could not support your strategy. Had I been building your team I would have forgone Raven and Storm as they do not support your Mimic strategy. You should have gone with Mimic, Fabian Cortez, Powerful Questionably Moral Marvel Telepath, Ultimate Madrox, and some Marvel Forcefield Generator. You keep Morality on and take Full Knowledge. The Telepath lobotomizes Mimic quickly while having Fabian boost Mimic's powers. Mimic steals Madrox's powers and creates 5 duplicates and sends these guys out wielding the full power of the entire team. The Forcefield generator just protects the team while the amped Mimic Dupes wreck shop. Your team has no tech and no magic so you have to be awfully strong in your use of TP and powers.

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#25 Posted by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: You did a great disservice to Raven by removing her morality. No morality and she gives into the darkness making her unstable. An unstable character cannot fix an unstable character. It is the blind leading the blind. As I said, ultimately your team construction just could not support your strategy. Had I been building your team I would have forgone Raven and Storm as they do not support your Mimic strategy. You should have gone with Mimic, Fabian Cortez, Powerful Questionably Moral Marvel Telepath, Ultimate Madrox, and some Marvel Forcefield Generator. You keep Morality on and take Full Knowledge. The Telepath lobotomizes Mimic quickly while having Fabian boost Mimic's powers. Mimic steals Madrox's powers and creates 5 duplicates and sends these guys out wielding the full power of the entire team. The Forcefield generator just protects the team while the amped Mimic Dupes wreck shop. Your team has no tech and no magic so you have to be awfully strong in your use of TP and powers.

Yeah.....Mimic was not the base of my strategy, just an added piece. Storm was the base. Plus I don't know any of those guys other than Madrox.

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#27 Posted by DedmanWalkin (4157 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: Storm was the strategic center of your team? Why? Storm is not a strategic center, her power is too limited. Fabian Cortez is a mutant with the power to boost other people's powers. The other two people were up to you.

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#28 Posted by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: Storm was the strategic center of your team? Why? Storm is not a strategic center, her power is too limited. Fabian Cortez is a mutant with the power to boost other people's powers. The other two people were up to you.

Storm's the most versatile mid tier person pretty much. She controls all the different weather so has many different ways to attack, has an automatic advantage over anyone that needs to breathe, her wind is powerful enough to defend her from nearly anything, and she can sense people via the weather from long ranges, plus she can cover entire cities in weather with perfect control. She's good for defending, attacking, escorting, racing, retrieving, anything really.

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#30 Posted by unstressing (84 posts) - - Show Bio

I vote for raiden.

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#31 Edited by DedmanWalkin (4157 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: She is a highly skilled energy manipulator plain and simple and has no real use outside of that. Everything she can do is easily countered. Your most versatile person was Mimic and not centering your team around him was foolish.

For mid tier versatility, you need a high IQ tech guy or a magic user or someone with a variety of powers. You only have one of those and it ain't Storm.

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#32 Posted by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: She is a highly skilled energy manipulator plain and simple and has no real use outside of that. Everything she can do is easily countered. Your most versatile person was Mimic and not centering your team around him was foolish.

For mid tier versatility, you need a high IQ tech guy or a magic user or someone with a variety of powers. You only have one of those and it ain't Storm.

I disagree with all of that. She's good enough to beat nearly any team and would stomp Mimic into the ground.

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#33 Posted by DedmanWalkin (4157 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: My team stomps her and your entire team into the ground in thirty seconds flat. Additionally, your team can't beat a large number of the other teams.

Mimic with the right support staff would stomp your team and Storm with no issue. Storm is not all that useful once you get into high level strategy.

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#34 Posted by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: My team stomps her and your entire team into the ground in thirty seconds flat. Additionally, your team can't beat a large number of the other teams.

Mimic with the right support staff would stomp your team and Storm with no issue. Storm is not all that useful once you get into high level strategy.

And again, I disagree 100% with all of that.

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#35 Posted by DedmanWalkin (4157 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: There are very few mid-tier teams that can stop my Negative-Shrinker-Teleporter combo and your team is not one of them.

  1. Negative uses the corrupts my entire team.
  2. Pym shrinks them to atomic scale making them immune to any and all damage including TP or Empathy-based attacks.
  3. Ultimate Schizoid Man creates 4 dupes.
  4. Spiral teleports each dupe inside your team.
  5. Pym grows the dupes inside your team exploding them from the inside out.

There is no counter to this strategy that your team can employ.

Beatboks can use the same exact strategy if he so desires. Several teams can outright ignore Storm.

There is only one high level strategy that I know of that employs Storm.

But thanks for engaging me in an actual dialogue instead of just denial.

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#36 Posted by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Posted by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: There are very few mid-tier teams that can stop my Negative-Shrinker-Teleporter combo and your team is not one of them.

  1. Negative uses the corrupts my entire team.
  2. Pym shrinks them to atomic scale making them immune to any and all damage including TP or Empathy-based attacks.
  3. Ultimate Schizoid Man creates 4 dupes.
  4. Spiral teleports each dupe inside your team.
  5. Pym grows the dupes inside your team exploding them from the inside out.

There is no counter to this strategy that your team can employ.

Beatboks can use the same exact strategy if he so desires. Several teams can outright ignore Storm.

There is only one high level strategy that I know of that employs Storm.

But thanks for engaging me in an actual dialogue instead of just denial.

I don't see how shrinking to atomic scale makes you immune to any damage. Wind, ice, lightning, should all still affect you. As should empathy, maybe you have scans.

My team has 2 people who can go intangible, so exploding from withing wouldn't do much to them, making that useless.

Also the matter manipulation rule may or may not take out the pym particles strategy.

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#38 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14551 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Posted by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Posted by serrure (5896 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: @mr_ingenuity: first off this debate could have gone down allot better than it did... and i blame both of you for that.

ill finish reading tomorrow cuz right now i feel like im dying slowly and some guy just really ticked me off in another thread. im leaning towards MI but ive still got allot to read so it can change

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#41 Posted by DedmanWalkin (4157 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: Temperature, Wind, and Lightning literally cannot touch you at that scale. The Atom has walked through nuclear fire without so much as a sunburn at Atomic Scale, what makes you think petty lighting, wind, and ice could even harm him? There are entire universes at the Atomic Scale that NO ONE IN EITHER MARVEL OR DC knew about until someone shrunk down and found them. Unless you have a scan of any telepath or Empath being able to even detect someone out of the Microverse, empathy and telepathy are useless. Even then, Negative's corruption completely counters empathic attacks. The second you try that crap with Spiral she will not only KO Raven but also use her powers against her.

Intangibility only lasts for 1 minute, then you have 30 seconds of cooldown. They die then. Spiral could also teleport in with the Soulsword and outright slaughter them as Intangibility means nothing to it.

I am not manipulating matter in any way shape or form. Size Changing does not do that.

As I said, nothing on your team can counter my strategy.

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#42 Posted by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: Temperature, Wind, and Lightning literally cannot touch you at that scale. The Atom has walked through nuclear fire without so much as a sunburn at Atomic Scale, what makes you think petty lighting, wind, and ice could even harm him? There are entire universes at the Atomic Scale that NO ONE IN EITHER MARVEL OR DC knew about until someone shrunk down and found them. Unless you have a scan of any telepath or Empath being able to even detect someone out of the Microverse, empathy and telepathy are useless. Even then, Negative's corruption completely counters empathic attacks. The second you try that crap with Spiral she will not only KO Raven but also use her powers against her.

Intangibility only lasts for 1 minute, then you have 30 seconds of cooldown. They die then. Spiral could also teleport in with the Soulsword and outright slaughter them as Intangibility means nothing to it.

I am not manipulating matter in any way shape or form. Size Changing does not do that.

As I said, nothing on your team can counter my strategy.

Intangibility lasts for a minute, you growing really big happens in a second, the intangible person moves out of the way, then takes care of your clones and your team, leaving them out of the game. Now the strategy is done.

lightning works on a subatomic level (electrons), so being atom sized won't save you from that. Wind too moves atoms, so Storm making a huge storm over the city would counter that, and temperature is supposed to be caused from the moving of atoms, so flash freezing the area would also cause you problems. Also size changing via pym particle is certainly mattter manipulation to me, but it would ultimately matter what RD thought.

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#43 Posted by Sebast_Allen (2727 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: Get's my vote, Bruce is my second favourite comic character with Hulk, and you did him justice. But not just him, you had the better strategy overall in my opinion

Darkraiden was very persistent, and cool headed though, both of you displayed great debating skills.

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#44 Edited by beatboks1 (9763 posts) - - Show Bio

@dedmanwalkin: Giving away our potential strategies in advance?? next thing you know you'll be warning what I can do when I have animal man take on the shape shifting powers of a Protean.

@darkraiden said:

Intangibility lasts for a minute, you growing really big happens in a second, the intangible person moves out of the way, then takes care of your clones and your team, leaving them out of the game. Now the strategy is done.

lightning works on a subatomic level (electrons), so being atom sized won't save you from that. Wind too moves atoms, so Storm making a huge storm over the city would counter that, and temperature is supposed to be caused from the moving of atoms, so flash freezing the area would also cause you problems. Also size changing via pym particle is certainly mattter manipulation to me, but it would ultimately matter what RD thought.

I agree with demanwalkin on the shrink strategy (there's a reason I chose Atom's gear as my gunslinger perk after all). There are a few points in regards to what you say hear that I'd like to point out.

  1. Electrons don't damage "sub atomic particles" until they are near light speed. That's in fact how the "atom" was broken. I " " the word atom because it was actually the breaking of the subatomic particle a Neutron that was achieved. A particle accelerator increases the speed of electrons until it can breach the neutron. Lightning travels no where near that fast and Storm has no feats of making that ahooen that I'm aware of.
  2. There are many times when Atom has endured and withstood attacks that JLAers with incredible durability have succumbed to. For one thing there are two times when facing Amazo that he and Superman were the only two left standing because Palmer was subatomic. Despite the fact that he was on MMH's shoulder when the attack took down MMH it didn't take him down.
  3. Intangibility wont protect you from a shrinking hero who's atomic or sub atomic. Frankly they could be larger than that level by quite a bit at the molecular level and phasing wont help. If it did then the act of phasing would be fatal to person who does it. If when they phase the oxygen in their lungs didn't also go with them to their "phase" then they would die from a lack of oxygen to the brain. If the hemoglobin in their blood didn't phase then the slightest bacteria or virus could kill them (the hemoglobin wouldn't be with them when they phased back). The fact that you say it takes only a second to alter size sells dedman's strategy since they'd be at the same phase as the person who's intangible until they are at least above molecular level by quite a bit, leaving little to no time to do anything to stop said attack.
  4. Flash freezing doesn't affect sub atomic particles. If it did then freezing would make molecules fall apart because the electrons in the atoms would no longer move holding the bonds that keep atoms united as a compound. Since metal, wood or anything else doesn't simply disintegrate when frozen we have proof positive that flash freezing wont affect the subatomic level.
  5. Altering size without actually changing what the matter or atomic structure of something is doesn't seem to me to be "matter manipulation" (at least it's not associated with what we would normally call Matter manip). Then again the fact that the person as a whole is basically smaller than the sub atomic level could be seen that way. My guess would be that RD sees it this way since he allowed two of us to have shrinking.

I had a lengthy debate several months ago on a Flash vs Atom thread because the shrinking and mass altering power of the Atom is IMHO the perfect answer to dealing with the Hax speed of the Flash (excluding speed steal).

The discussion on this is actually pretty interesting. I'd suggest we all copy, delete our posts and move the whole thing to a new thread on general forum to continue. Just to save derailing RD's tourney. That's if you want to agree. We could make the topic "most useful combinations of powers in a team. It might also affect votes without proper debate in the threads. Thoughts??

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#45 Posted by DedmanWalkin (4157 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden:
Because my team is suddenly taking hits of goofy juice? They will wait. They know that your team can go intangible so they'll wait. Though how your team even knows they are coming is beyond ridiculous. You lack full knowledge, you lack precognition, and you can't detect my team in anyway shape or form.

Maybe you missed the part where I said Atom walked through Nuclear Fire COMPLETELY unharmed. Nuclear Fire > Lightning, Wind, and Ice.

@beatboks1: Doesn't matter, only a couple teams have the ability to counter it.

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#46 Posted by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@dedmanwalkin: Raven can sense them. Nuclear fire shouldn't be >>>Lightning. Especially subatomically.

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#47 Edited by DedmanWalkin (4157 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: Raven has never sensed any mind in the various Microverses that are all around her at all times so what makes you think her senses will work here?
Keep in mind that NO ONE on DC Earth had any idea that any of these Microverses existed until someone shrunk down and found them. Being small renders you immune to telepathic or empathic detection.

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#48 Posted by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@dedmanwalkin: Didn't mean with empathy, I meant that she appears to have some kind of danger sense/pre-cog and would sense that.

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#49 Posted by DedmanWalkin (4157 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: Nope, at best she can randomly see the future but she has no control over it and it does not function like a danger sense.

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#50 Posted by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: Nope, at best she can randomly see the future but she has no control over it and it does not function like a danger sense.

It has in the past