Mid Tier PYP Round One: KillBilly vs HitTheAssassin

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defiant_will

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@killbilly

Characters:

  • Starkiller (6)

Perks:

  • Immunity to Magic/Soul Attacks
  • Deadpool's Healing Factor

VS

@hittheassasin

Characters:

  • Zeldris (6)

Perks:

  • Perk Negation

RULES

  • Six (6) character points to spend.
  • Three (3) perk points to spend.
  • No BFR.
  • No time manipulation.
  • No reality warping.
  • Cloning is limited to 10
  • Standard Gear.
  • In Character.
  • Team Work is none a factor, but your team will not have perfect Team Work if they never worked together either.
  • DC Characters are Post Crisis and New 52 composite unless specified.
  • Marvel is modern 616 unless otherwise specified.
  • All movies get canon comic feats with movies unless specified.
  • All Video games get canon comics, and manga feats unless specified.
  • All Manga Characters are manga and anime Composite.
  • All characters are in their (unamped) prime.
  • Win by death, KO, incap.
  • PARTICPANTS MUST BE OVER 500 POST AND MUST HAVE COMPLETED A CAV/TOURNEY

SETTING

Tatooine
Tatooine

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defiant_will

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HitTheAssasin

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@killbilly: So...do you want to start, or should I do the honours?

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Thenewguysnm1

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HTA are you going to use “That” feat?

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defiant_will

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HTA are you going to use “That” feat?

No he isn't going to argue Zeldris as FTL or else he will be eliminated :)

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killbilly

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#7 killbilly  Moderator

@thenewguysnm1 said:

HTA are you going to use “That” feat?

No he isn't going to argue Zeldris as FTL or else he will be eliminated :)

But can you argue that they're NEAR the speed of light? :P

@killbilly: So...do you want to start, or should I do the honours?

You can do the honors if you like.

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HitTheAssasin

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@killbilly: Neither Starkiller or Zeldris even remotely approach the speed of light excluding the statement in the scan above, which I'm not using.

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Chronicplane

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#10  Edited By Chronicplane

Zeldris FTL is hyperbole, not even close to that.

OT: T4V.

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Opener: Zeldris The Executioner

No Caption Provided

Right, so I'm going to try and keep this post short and sweet, with no time wasted.

Zeldris is the the Demon King's son, representative and executioner and by proxy, one of the highest ranked individuals in the Demon Clan, surpassing everyone except his older brother Meliodas(and arguably the Masters, Cusack and Chandler) by a considerable margin, possessing a combat class of 61,000 while using just his first mark. Being a demon of this position grants Zeldris the basic abilities all members of the Demon Clan possess at the highest possible level. This set of abilities includes superhuman physical stats to a ridiculous level, demonic regeneration, darkness manipulation and hellfire, all of which are shown below:

  • Scans 1-3: Hendrickson after gaining the power of a grunt(fodder) Demon casually regenerates both a severed arm and 3 ginormous cuts in his chest
  • Scans 3-5: Sealed Meliodas creates several huge constructs and wings out of darkness
  • Scan 6: Hendrickson creates a wall of Hellblaze larger and wider than a building easily

For reference, all of the demons or demon hybrids using the powers above are far inferior to Zeldris in both raw power and technique, he can easily replicate all of their showings when it comes to these abilities. Now that we've gotten the basic versatility of Zel's power set out of the way, I'll be getting to the actual matchup. The first part of which will be me showing why Starkiller can't even hurt Zeldris no matter what he tries, after which I'll be moving onto Zeldris' several ways of winning this bout.

Yes, your heard that right, Starkiller can't hurt Zeldris. Starkiller has only 2 ways of dealing damage, those being blunt force via TK and piercing/heat via his lightsaber. To deal with the issue of a lightsaber first, Zeldris has already taken heat far in excess of what a lightsaber can produce across his whole body on multiple instances, the first and most vital of which being when he tanked being in close proximity to 114k combat class Escanor's Cruel Sun for multiple seconds and then also tanked the explosion of said Cruel Sun:

Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 186

Just to be clear about this, the heat of a far smaller Cruel Sun produced by a far weaker version of Escanor even before exploding is enough to melt steel like butter from a distance of several meters away and, when the actual explosion is unleashed, it completely vaporised an entire lake in an instant. Another showing of just how potent Escanor's heat is is when he completely melts stone and blows away part of a castle with his passive heat(not even a Cruel Sun), while at his weakest possible power level:

Seven Deadly Sins Vampires of Edinburgh and Chapter 185

So, if Zeldris is able to no-sell this level of heat being emitted from Escanor's most powerful heat attack at almost point-blank range and also tank the explosion that's far more potent than the one that instantly melted stone and vaporised a lake on different occasions, I think we can agree the heat of a lightsaber wouldn't be an issue for him. And even if it did manage to cut Zeldris, with the regenerative capabilities that all demons have, regenerating climb or some cuts is absolutely no issue for him, when even a fodder, grunt demon had regeneration on the level shown earlier.

Now, for the TK. Well, I don't really think there's much to say on this matter. There's nothing in the location here that could be thrown at Zeldris and his blunt force durability is far too good to be hurt by basic TK anyway, having no-sold several kicks from Demon Mark Meliodas at point-blank range, the same guy that destroys massive dungeons as a side-effect of arm-wrestling and creates hill sized shockwaves in his exponentially weaker base form:

Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 174

With that being said, we've now established nothing in Starkillers arsenal has the ability to permanently damage Zeldris(I'm not even going to address lightning, I've already shown the amount of heat Zeldris can no-sell at point-blank range, it won't do jack to him and it's too slow to tag him anyway), since lightsabers can either be tanked or just regenerated from, I'll just move onto his methods of victory here.

As for speed, I don't feel it's particularly relevant here, since Zeldris has many means of defeating Starkiller that don't involve bludgeoning him with physical attacks and Zel can't be true damaged by the latter no matter what he does anyhow. Nevertheless, to give a quick explanation about just how fast Zeldris is, he's managed to casually blitz 56k Combat Class Meliodas and also has a statement confirming his speed at sword is the fastest in all the Demon Clan:

Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 174 and Chapter 286

To put into perspective why both this feat and the accolade are really impressive, even a far weaker and slower version of Meliodas(combat class 3,360 as opposed to 56,000, was blitzed by someone who 56k Mel blitzed 12 times over) was casually reacting to lightning coming from the clouds and performing bullrushes at supersonic speeds while holding back significantly:

Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 77 and Chapter 78

To be honest, Zeldris is far faster than Starkiller based on these feats alone. I know you'll try to bring up certain "light speed" feats, but let me tell you and the voters right away, they're all outliers and none of them come from Starkiller himself anyway. I can bring up several different statements from several different books and other mediums that proclaim 20 strikes per second as "faster than any human could possibly move"(for the Starwars verse) and have Star Wars force users reacting in mere tenths of a second, as opposed to the millions or billionths they should be reacting in if they were truly relativistic.If it becomes necessary in later posts, I'll go more in-depth on the matter of speed, but I really don't think it's necessary.

Zeldris has several methods of victory here, the most simple of which is using his flight(see the scans below) to take to the skies and then proceed to throw several darkness attacks with huge area of effect at Starkiller from several hundred meters in the sky, where the latter has no chance of every consistently reaching him, such as his Dies Irae, a huge bolt of darkness that appears from a portal cast above the target:

Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 249 and Chapter 250

The AOE of this attack is easily several dozen meters and Zeldris can simply spam attacks of this AOE, or even greater(several Demons weaker than him have shown an AOE of kilometers when using darkness or hell blaze attacks) to take down Starkiller easily, since he can't consistently tank multiple attacks with the force of Zeldris, which can easily vaporise structures the size of sky islands(shown above).

The second method and the sure kill one here is Zeldris' original magic ability, the Ominous Nebula. To put it simply, it's a magic where Zeldris instantly rotates his power of darkness around him in a bubble around him at such a viciously fast speed(faster than the eye can see, for that matter) that it creates a vortex, sucking everything in the area around him towards Zeldris with incredible strength. Then, anything that enters the area around him in which the darkness is spinning around at speeds faster than even massively superhuman characters can comprehend is instantly sliced by said darkness at godlike speed(which is revolving in a bubble around Zel, meaning it's not dodgeable). Here's an in-universe explanation from Merlin to prove my point:

Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 288

Here's what the effect looks like in practice, back when Zeldris first used it and was still holding back:

Seven Deadly Sins Chapter 287

To be quite frank, Starkiller has no way and no chance of dodging or avoiding this ability. The suction is so strong it was pulling in characters like Escanor, someone who no-sold sub-mountain level force being directly applied to his body at point-blank range and the vortex around him is completely invisible, so Starkiller won't be able to know what's coming, or be able to dodge it. Of course I know he has precognition, but it won't help him here. His pre-cog will tell him something is coming from Zeldris' direction, but he still won't know what it is or what it does and, as I said, the vortex instantly cuts up anything that approaches Zeldris and sends it flying, only for it to be pulled in again. Oh, and, the slashes made by the vortex were potent enough to rag doll Escanor as well(despite the pull in the opposite direction), who, as said above, was unmoved by sub-montain level force. In other words, Starkiller will be oneshot by this ability without fail, since he has no means of dealing with being actively pulled towards ominidirectional, invisible attacks that can oneshot him with incredible force.

To put it simply, Starkiller has no way of winning this fight. None of his methods of attack possess sufficient force to put down Zeldris with all of his raw durability and regeneration, who has numerous energy attacks or hax of his own that can one or two shot Starkiller(Dies Irae, Hellblaze and Ominous Nebula as examples), not to even mention his sheer physical strength, which I haven't even brought up yet. Then there's the fact that Zeldris can also fly, while Starkiller can't, which gives him the reasonable possibility of simply staying out of range and spamming energy blasts untill his opponent's dead. Starkiller is massively outmatched and has little to no chances of winning this bout.

@killbilly

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killbilly

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#12  Edited By killbilly  Moderator

Good post. Zeldris is an interesting character for sure. I'll have a response up sometime this evening or tomorrow.

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killbilly

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#14  Edited By killbilly  Moderator

To keep this post relatively brief, I’ll be breaking my response down into 3 parts:

  • Addressing any erroneous and/or questionable claims you made in your opener.
  • Establishing my character’s capabilities in my responses to those claims.
  • Explaining why your character loses as a result of the above.

Before we dive into things, it should be established that Starkiller has access to all skills and abilities demonstrated by his template and is confirmed to be more powerful then him.

"Galen Marek's clones possess their genetic host's fighting skills, including incredible abilities with the Force." The Ultimate Visual Guide: Updated and Expanded.

-

"Once I found out that Starkiller was coming back stronger, deadlier, and with more to lose than before, I knew I had to write it. His journey has become much more interesting." - Insider 120.

With that out of the way, let’s get started.

No Caption Provided

Agent of the Empire. Founder of the Rebellion. Darth Vader's Secret Apprentice.

Claims Made By My Opponent

[[Starkiller has only two ways of dealing damage to Zeldris; blunt force attacks and energy/heat based attacks.]]

I'm not sure if this claim comes about from ignorance or not but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you were unaware that my character possesses telepathy and that his ability to utilize TK is not restricted to shoves and pushes or simply pummeling Zeldris with objects.

Based on what you've presented thus far, there doesn't seem to be anything preventing Starkiller from turning Zeldris’s brain to mush with TK or simply ordering him to commit suicide with a telepathic command. Does your character have some sort of resistance to these types of attacks that you didn’t expound upon in your opening post? If not, both options are well within my character’s ability to carry out as he’s demonstrated on multiple occasions.

Telepathy

"There he put the thought into the mind of another trooper that he had heard a disturbance some distance away.

-

"The apprentice put him to sleep with a single thought and stepped over the stormtrooper's crumbling body." - The Force Unleashed.

-

"Sith lightning crackled; bodies broke under his irresistible telekinesis; his mind influenced the decisions of officers, who ordered their underlings to attack one another in droves. None could stand up to him and survive." - The Force Unleashed.

-

"At the river's edge he used the Force to attract one of the many hard-backed river beasts he had seen the Felucians ride. Gripping its carapace with one hand, he rode its undulating body toward the town, occasionally pausing to fling lightning at Felucian guards who bothered him.

-

"That'll do," he told his half-submerged steed as they approached the town's borders. The beast nuzzled into the bank." - The Force Unleashed.

Internal Telekinesis

"It would be a simple matter to crush the walker as would a faulty comlink, collapsing the casing and instantly killing, the man within." - The Force Unleashed.

-

"He reached out and crumpled the walker's cannon and grenade launchers." - The Force Unleashed.

-

"Missiles from the newly arrived pair peppered him, filling the air with smoke. His Force shield kept the worst of their effects at bay, and he pressed forward, reaching out to telekinetically crush the missile launchers and trigger the remaining charges. With a bright flash and a deafening boom, the last of his obstacles disappeared." - The Force Unleashed II.

-

"Behind him, triggered telekinetically, the downed AT-AT exploded, expending all its stored munitions in one blistering blast." - The Force Unleashed.

-

While crossing to the next mooring in line, he detonated fuel tanks and exploded ammunition stores with a gesture." - The Force Unleashed.

Note: Most of the above instances are accomplished in the midst of battle with a "gesture" or a "thought."

[[Starkiller is unable to harm Zeldris via blunt force or heat/energy based attacks]]

Your reasoning for this is that he survived an explosion which possessed the power to instantly vaporize a lake and has tanked blows from a guy who has ( city block level? ) physicals. I'm assuming that those are the best strength feats Meliodas possesses below his Demon Mark form and that you're assuming his strength scales with this more powerful form. I'm fine with that if that's the case. Just wanted to clarify.

While these feats are solid examples of Zeldris's resistance to blunt force and heat, I don't think they're enough to suggest he could tank a lightsaber let alone Force attacks from Starkiller.

Cutting Power of a Lightsaber

1. A lightsaber can cut through the shielded hull of a CIS Dreadnought.

No Caption Provided

2. A lightsaber's heat and energy output is far greater then that of a small nuclear blast.

"It wouldn't withstand a lightsaber, but it would keep a horde of safecrackers busy for a month, and would easily withstand a small nuclear blast." - Fatal Alliance.

3. Is as hot as the core of a star.

"Throughout the generations, lightsaber technology was refined from those first high-maintenance 'captive bolt' lightsabers to the lightweight modern lightsabers, which utilizes a stablized, massless plasma beam that burns as hot and bright as the core of a star." - SW: Force & Destiny Core Rulebook.

4. Able to cut through a material so dense that it warps the fabric of space and time.

"As a Jedi shuttle settled to the landing deck outside, the shadow sent its mind into the far deeper night within one of the several pieces of sculpture that graced the office: an abstract twist of solid neuranium, so heavy that the office floor had been specially reinforced to bear its weight, so dense that more sensitive species might, from very close range, actually percieve the tiny warping of the fabric of space-time that was its gravitation. Neuranium of more than roughly a millimeter thick is impervious to sensors; the standard security scans undergone by all equipment and furniture to enter the Senate Office Building had shown nothing at all. If anyone had thought to use an advanced gravimetric detector, however, they might have discovered that one smallish section of the sculpture massed slightly less than it should have, given that the manifest that had accompanied it, when it was brought from Naboo among the then-ambassador's personal effects, clearly stated that it was a single piece of solid-forged neuranium. The manifest was a lie. The sculpture was not entirely solid, and not all of it was neuranium. Within a long, slim, rod-shaped cavity around which the sculpture had been forged rested a device that had lain, waiting, in absolute darkness-darkness beyond darkness-for decades. Waiting for night to fall on the Republic. The shadow felt Jedi Masters stride the vast echoic emptiness of the vaulted halls outside. It could practically hear the cadence of their boot heels on the Alderaanian marble. The darkness within the sculpture whispered of the shape and the feel and every intimate resonance of the device it cradled With a twist of its will, the shadow triggered the device. The neuranium got warm. A small round spot, smaller than the circle a human child might make of thumb and forefinger, turned the color of old blood. Then fresh blood. Then open flame. Finally a spear of scarlet energy lanced free, painting the office with the color of stars seen through the smoke of burning planets. The spear of energy lengthened, drawing with it out from the darkness the device, then the scarlet blade shrank away and the device slid itself within the softer darkness of a sleeve." - Revenge of the Sith.

Starkiller's Energy Output

1. Overloaded an ore cannon with enough energy to bring down a superstructure larger then a Super Star Destroyer.

"The shipyard rose up over the planet's filthy horizon like some strange, mechanical moon. Disk shaped, with complex docks and cranes radiating from its outer edge, it was by far the largest artificial structure she had ever seen. Over a dozen Star Destroyers were currently in dry dock: one nearly complete, the others triangular shells at various stages of manufacture. Giant balls of ore floated near the station, awaiting refinement. Huge arcing sparks shot from the Star Destroyers as massive, complicated machines welded panels in place." - The Force Unleashed.

Note: The quote takes place from the perspective of Juno Eclipse who has seen the Executor, and the Kashyyyk skyhook. The latter structure being an orbital trading station the base of which starts on the surface of Kashyyyk and stretches all the way into the planet's atmosphere.

2. Powered a blast with enough energy to split an Imperial Star Destroyer in two.

( 18:09 ) - Normal shot from the cannon.

( 18:36 ) - Shot powered by Starkiller.

No Caption Provided

3. Destroys 2 of 6 supports that holds up the Kashyyyk skyhook.

When he reached the base of the skyhook, he was momentarily given pause. How to bring about the ruin of these six constructs? Their super-strong materials were designed to handle the stresses of holding the massive station directly above, against all the laws of physics. How would he overcome their resistance? The answer, as always, lay in the Force. The Force was beyond physics. The Force could not be resisted, when wielded by confident hands. The Force would always be sufficient. Turning his back on the body-strewn battlefield, he put both hands on the base of the nearest mooring. Closing his eyes and his mind to all forms of distraction, he imagined himself as one with the metal, permacrete, and stone. He felt the mooring's strengths and its weaknesses. He resonated with it, until it was hard to tell where his hands stopped and the mooring began. When he could achieve no greater focus, he reached out for the dark side and let it guide him. Energy came like a dam bursting, as wild as every predator on Kashyyyk combined but as pure as a laser. He tilted his head back and relished the wonder and terror of what he had brought into being. This was a power far greater than Sith lightning, designed for one single task. He lost himself utterly in that task. He became destruction. The mooring shook. Its more delicate components - nanowires, sensitive self-regulating systems, microscopic hydraulic channels - fused almost immediately. Once the complex processes maintaining its stability were disrupted, a chain reaction began that could not be stopped. Pressures mounted in areas close to exceeding their maximum load; hairline cracks formed and spread; a deep vibration sprang up that could not be dampened. The apprentice maintained his assault until hairline cracks became gaping rents and the vibration shook the world, howling material agony over the renewed firing of blaster cannons. When the first shower of boiling dust and pebble-sized fragments rained down on him, he decided it was time to step back and take stock - and to prevent some hapless stormtrooper creeping up on him and shooting him in the back. He opened his eyes and looked up. The mooring was barely recognizable as the same structure. Electrical discharges danced across its conducting surfaces. Ultrastressed permacrete flowed like treacle. Larger fragments began to fall and he batted them away with the Force, feeling no more drained by his exertion than he would have from a light run. He almost smiled at his accomplishment, but one stark fact sobered him to the core. One down. Five to go." - The Force Unleashed.

-

"The Imperials were rallying. They needed to be reminded of who they were dealing with. While crossing to the next mooring in line, he detonated fuel tanks and exploded ammunition stores. AT-STs cracked open like seedpods and burst into short-lived flame. He reached his target without encountering serious resistance and brought it down as he had the first." - The Force Unleashed.

Starkiller's Telekinetic Output

1. Blows apart 300 meters of frigate with telekinesis.

He raised a hand and telekinetically burst through the outer hatch.Instantly the world was fire. The air around the ship consisted of a blinding plasma, hotter than any ordinary flame. He forced his way into it, bracing himself against metal rungs that had turned instantly red on exposure to the outside. His eyes narrowed to slits in order to make out even the nearest outline. He could barely see the fingers in front of his face. He didn't need to see. The Force guided him, move by move, out onto the hull, where he braced himself with his back to the short-range array and turned to face forward. Like Kota, he could see without eyes.A trembling shape up and to his left chose that moment to give way, showering molten fragments all along the spine of the ship. The primary array was no great loss: he couldn't have heard anyone anyway over the racket in his ears. But the forward turbolasers and primary sensor unit, the next two chunks to go, were more of a concern. The ship was seriously unbalanced now. It shuddered underfoot, pulling wildly in different directions. If he was going to prevent it slipping into an uncontrollable rumble or rearing apart, he had to act quickly and decisively. This was where it got difficult. He needed to maintain the Force shield against the sort of heat he might find in the outer layers of a star. He also had to keep in mind the target ahead - a target he couldn't see through the plasma, but had to hit square-on or else the planetary shield generators wouldn't fail. No matter what happened, he had to fly straight.

-

He raised his hands and spread his fingers wide. His eyes closed tightly against the fiery brightness of the plasma. With each bucking and shaking of the ship beneath him, he encouraged himself to ride with it instead of fighting it. He was part of the ship, not a passenger. He was the ship, not a reckless pilot guiding it to destruction. In the same way that he could feel his fingers and toes, his mind seeped outward into the metal and plastoid of the frigate, until every joint and weld, every porthole and deck became part of his sense of being. There was no line anymore between Starkiller and the Salvation. They were one and the same being, from the perspective of the Force. He raised his right arm, and the ship followed the movement, listing slowly and heavily to starboard. Some of the headlong shuddering faded, as though it were grateful to have someone at the helm again. Even the wind's shrieking seemed to ebb. Something tore away at aft of the ship, and he bent his knees slightly to absorb the shock. The Salvation steadied, found a new center of gravity, and roared on. Confident that his vast metal charge was now under control, he cast his mind outward.

-

The frigate slammed into the clouds with a rearing sound. At that speed, individual droplets of water hit like thermal detonators. The Salvation's own shields were holding, but even so it lost still more of its mass to the ongoing battering. Several lower decks peeled back and were swept away, including the bridge. Most of the short-range array was gone, leaving him with just the base to hold him steady. He clenched his hands into fists and willed the ship to keep going.Something succumbed to the plasma with a flash. A bright spark tumbled in his wake - the secondary reactor he had spent so much energy saving from the giant droid. He ignored it. The bottom of the cloud layer was approaching, and with it would come his first clear glimpse of the shield generators.

-

Carefully, wary of putting too much strain on an already overtaxed chassis, he nudged the Salvations nose down. If he came in low and hit the ocean first, he could concentrate the damage to one location. If he overreached by so much as a degree, he might miss the ocean completely and scrape a long, fiery line right through the heart of the facility. The Salvation resisted. He pushed harder. The nose descended and held there for ten seconds, strain echoing all through the ship. It wasn't made for anything like this. Nothing larger than a starfighter was.

-

Starkiller closed his eyes. He didn't have time to wonder what was going through her mind. He had to think of something fast, or Juno was going to die. There was only one thing he could do, and although he knew he wasn't likely to survive, he didn't hesitate. What was death when the love of his former life was at stake? Besides, anything was possible. Dying, as he had thought once before, always seemed to bring out the best in him. With his mind and all the power of the Force, Starkiller embraced what remained of the frigate beneath him - and blew it into a billion pieces.

-

Juno was hypnotized by the fiery blaze in the sky. Ever since it had broached the cloud cover, two things had become clear. It was a ship, a big ship, and it was going to hit the facility. The roar it made vied with thunder for loudest sound in the sky. Lightning scattered from the disturbed clouds in its wake. Then the falling ship had split in two, with one half powering down at a steeper angle, and the other continuing onward. Only then had she realized that the second one was coming right for her.

-

Seconds remained before it hit - not long enough to think anything coherent, barely time even to observe what was happening. The stricken ship was glowing red, with the last shreds of plasma still clinging to it like flames. Its class was almost unrecognizable, but she made out stumps that might once have been a communications array on the upper port side. That made it a Nebulon-B frigate, one of many EF76s in the service of either the Empire or the Rebel Alliance.

-

At the last instant she made out a tiny human figure standing on the upper hull. The flames and rushing wind swept past him, as though he were impervious to their touch. His arms were upraised in defiance and his head was tipped back so she couldn't see his face. But she knew. Just as she knew that it was the Salvation, she knew it was him.

-

The ship was almost upon them when the figure brought his hands down in a fierce, pounding motion, and the last solid fragment of the Salivation exploded into fiery pieces.She had to close her eyes. The conflagration was too intense, and the sound was that of worlds ending. The cloning tower kicked beneath her. She was momentarily afraid that she might be falling with it into the sea. But then she was rising again, and she understood that the structure had survived, somehow, and so had she.

-

The rain ceased for a moment, and then returned, settling the cloud of dust still further. Of the Salvation, nothing at all remained.Darth Vader lowered the hand he had risen to shield his helmet and took stock around him. Juno did the same. Fires blazed in the wreckage where the rear half of the Salvation had come down. Alarms sounded through the facility, loud enough even for Juno's blast-numbed ears to hear them. Ash was settling on every horizontal surface and forming a thick, gray sludge.

-

Juno coughed and wished she could wipe her eyes clear of ash. Her ship had blown itself practically to atoms; she had seen it happen, right in front of her. There was no chance at all that Starkiller could have survived. He had been riding right on top of it.But she knew as well as they did that this wasn't the end. He had come back from the dead sufficient times now to make anything possible. Anything at all.

-

Starkiller's eyes jerked open. Where was he? All was dark around him. He smelled smoke and his body felt as though it had been hit by an asteroid. The last thing he remembered was tightening the Force shield around him and destroying the Salvation so it wouldn't kill Juno. He was somewhere on Kamino, then. But his mind remained full of strange images and feelings that he had never experienced before." - The Force Unleashed II.

No Caption Provided
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2. Guided the descent of an Imperial Star Destroyer.

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Note: The Star Destroyer Starkiller brought down was stated to weigh 1 million tons.

"The sensation of containing a vast, million-ton machine in the tip of one finger was deeply disorienting." - The Force Unleashed.

3. Launches thousands of droids into the sky with enough force to form an artificial hurricane and cause a groundquake.

"Soon the foyer was full of the twitching, smoking bodies of the temple's hapless guardians. He began to tire, not from exertion but from the tedium of knocking down droid after droid, to no apparent end. There might have been thousands of them. Deactivating his lightsaber, he took a deep breath. With one mighty exhalation of power, he blasted all of them - those in pieces and those approaching with needle-tipped fingers and vibrosaws upraised - out of the foyer doors. Then he blasted the rubbish piles after them. He kept pushing until a dark cloud toured out over Raxus Prime's hideous landscape - an artificial hurricane full of droid golems. When the foyer was clear, the apprentice straightened. He was no longer pushing with the Force, but the floor beneath him shook nonetheless." - The Force Unleashed.

[[Zeldris can regenerate from lightsaber wounds or energy attacks which damage him]]

Has Zeldris shown the ability to regenerate parts of his body if the wound itself has been cauterized? I only ask because, scientifically, something like a lightsaber wound would cause Zeldris's cells to coagulate around the injury and prevent the kind of regeneration you're talking about.

[[The speed of all human Force user's caps out at 20 strikes per second and Zeldris is much faster]]

My opponent is basing this claim off of two incorrect assumptions:

1. Grievous's striking speed caps out at 20 strikes per second.

2. Obi Wan was unable to handle that level of speed.

3. Some Force user's are stated to react in a "tenth of a second."

The problem with these assumptions are as follows:

1. Grievous's speed cap is never suggested to be 20 strikes per second. This is simply the point wherein Grievous overwhelms Kenobi.

2. Considering the fact that Kenobi was fending off strikes from an opponent with 4 limbs and that he possesses feats that would logically allow him to deal with far more then 20 strikes per second, the only reasonable conclusion is that Grievous simply attacked him from multiple directions simultaneously which Kenobi would have been physically incapable of blocking.

3. As with any verse with a power system, not all combatant who utilize that power are equal. Some Force users are vastly faster and stronger then others. Where some Force user's react in a "tenth of a second," others ( like a pre-TPM Kenobi ) react in nanoseconds.

"He had no time to be astonished, barely even the nanosecond required to realize Abeloth had survived her fall into the cleft. He merely felt his feet shoot away and found himself dropping face-first. Luke tucked his chin and managed to flip to his back before he hit the stone floor. Abeloth was on top of him, her flesh blistered and smoking, her remaining leg entwining both of his, her remaining arm wrapped around the back of his neck." - Fate of the Jedi: Vortex.

"Luke pressed the trigger and held it down—then felt his jaw drop as bolts began to ricochet off the High Lord’s palm. It wasn’t the deflection of blasterfire with a bare hand that shocked him—he had fought plenty of Sith capable of that trick. What amazed Luke was the speed with which Taalon had moved. In the nanosecond it had taken the first bolt to cross the distance between them, the High Lord’s hand had risen to deflect it, traveling so fast that the appendage had literally seemed to disappear from one place and reappear in another." - Vortex.

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Just to clarify, Kenobi as of RotS is a being who has blocked and dodged thousands of blaster bolts with the aid of precognition. This feat occurs in the same novel as his fight with Grievous as well. Right before his fight with him in fact.

Only ten thousand to go. Give or take. An instant later the Force had him hurtling through a storm of blasterfire as every combat droid in the control center opened up on him at once. Letting go of intention, letting go of desire, letting go of life, Obi-Wan fixed his entire attention on a thread of the Force that pulled him toward Grievous: not where Grievous was, but where Grievous would be when Obi-Wan got there... Leaping girder to girder, slashing cables on which to swing through swarms of ricocheting particle beams, blade flickering so fast it became a deflector shield that splattered blaster bolts in all directions, his presence alone became a weapon: as he spun and whirled through the control center's superstructure, the blasts of particle cannons from power droids destroyed equipment and shattered girders and unleashed a torrent of red-hot debris that crashed to the deck, crushing droids on all sides. By the time he flipped down through the air to land cat-footed on the deck once more, nearly half the droids between him and Grievous had been destroyed by their own not-so-friendly fire. He cut his way into the mob of remaining troops as smoothly as if it were no more than a canebrake near some sunlit beach; his steady pace left behind a trail of smoking slices of droid." - Revenge of the Sith.

The speed of a blaster bolt is stated by multiple sources to be "lightspeed" or "the speed of light" if you were unaware.

"Though the transparisteel in the doors at the end of the main hall he could see distant flashes, narrow red bolts heading one way at the speed of light." - The New Jedi Order: Enemy Lines II - Rebel Stand.

-

"The wave of charged particles blew over her at lightspeed, nearly - but not quite - generating enough static to drown out Gavin's fierce cry of exultation." - The New Jedi Order: Edge of Victory - Book II.

-

Jax glanced down at the weapon, saw his distorted image staring back at him from the blade's surface. "Yeah? How do you know th―?"

I-Five suddenly whipped up his left hand, index finger extended, and fired a laser beam at Jax. The laser beam splashed off the ionized fire that suddenly coated the length of the blade, which Jax had automatically raised to block the beam.

"That's how," I-Five said. "The speed of light is just under three hundred thousand kilometers per second. You are currently seven-point-three meters from me. Your Force-augmented anticipatory reflex action obviously is working fine. You just have to let them." - Star Wars: Coruscant Nights II: Street of Shadows.

You might counter by saying that blaster bolts don't appear to be lightspeed in visual depictions. ICS addresses this however, stating that the "visible bolt" travels at less then lightspeed with the actual energy travelling AT lightspeed.

"Energy weapons fire invisible energy beams at lightspeed. The visible "bolt" is a glowing pulse that travels along the beam at less than lightspeed. The light given off by visible bolts depletes the overall energy content of a beam, limiting its range. Turbolasers gain a longer range by spinning the energy beam, which reduces waste glow." - Star Wars: Attack of the Clones Incredible Cross-Sections.

Now, this isn't to say Kenobi is many times faster then light. He and other Force user's still use precognition in order to accomplish their reaction feats. However, It does mean that with precognition and his augmented speed he is able to block and dodge thousands of lightspeed projectiles coming at him from all directions.

Considering Starkiller is faster then Vader who himself is stated to be faster then Kenobi by Ferus Olin a year or two after RotS ( over a decade prior to TFU with Vader being confirmed to have grown immensely in power over that period ), I don't see Starkiller having much trouble dealing with your character's speed.

"Vader's lightsaber moved too slowly to block a blow to his chest, allowing the apprentice's blade to slash deeply across his armored throat. Vader staggered backward, gloved hand upraised to the smoking wound." - The Force Unleashed.

-

Where Darth Vader was strong and relentless, he was fast and sly." - The Force Unleashed.

-

"It happened before he could get out another word. Faster than an eyeblink. Faster than he'd seen anyone move, anyone except Yoda." - Last Of The Jedi: Secret Weapon.

-

Ferus's Jedi training made him move quicker than an ordinary bystander, dodging almost in time with Obi-Wan." - The Last of The Jedi: Dark Warning.

-

He [Ferus] charged. His first blow was easily parried. He came at Vader again. Again. Circling, jumping, vaulting past him, turning. Each time his lightsaber came toward him, it was either deflected in a shock that ran up his arm, Vader simply wasn't there." - Last Of The Jedi: Reckoning.

[[Zeldris can spam island busting attacks from the sky that Starkiller can't tank.]]

Going to need you to provide several pieces of evidence before we can even begin comparing Zeldris's attack potency againt Starkiller's defenses.

1. Proof that Zeldriss can spam these attacks.

2. The actual size of this "sky island" in question.

[[Starkiller can't reach Zeldriss in the sky]]

"That gave him an idea. When the two remaining TIEs came around for another pass, he sent them both into the third and fifth moorings." - The Force Unleashed.

[[Zeldriss has a darkness whirlwind ability that could oneshot Starkiller]]

Your reasoning for this seems to be that because it pulled in Escanor and sent him flying, it could instantly kill Starkiller.

Considering your "mountain level" feat for Escanor seems to be more of a "hill level" feat going by the size of the trees in the scan in comparison, I don't see how this is accurate, especially given Starkiller's own durability feats which I listed above.

The above only becomes relevant if we assume Zeldriss's ability is even capable of pulling Starkiller in in the first place, something I'm currently not convinced of considering he is capable of applying enough force to bring down a "million-ton" Star Destroyer with telekinesis. Given his precognition, and the ability to root himself in place with that level of force, I don't see any reason to believe Zeldriss's ability would be capable of drawing him in.

Conclusion

None of the abilities you've listed for Zeldriss thus far would allow him to significantly reduce Starkiller's defenses and Zeldriss seemingly has no defense against abilities which bypass conventional durability like internal telekinesis and telepathy or the durability necessary to withstand Starkiller's higher end kinetic force or energy output.

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#15  Edited By killbilly  Moderator

The above is a work in progress but should be completed in a day or two. Edit: My apologies, it took a lot longer longer to gather and format the sources then I thought.

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#19  Edited By killbilly  Moderator

@hittheassasin: I apologize for how long it took to respond to you in full. My Spanish finals have been hitting me like a pile of bricks. You're good to go now.