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#1 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (14555 posts) - - Show Bio

Welcome to Mr_Ingenuity's first character creation tournament where only the most resilient survive. Users where given a rule set & where allowed to use their creativity to make their ideal character. With builds complete the only thing left is to fight in a battle of supremacy.

highaccuser

  • Body: Monkey King Hui Mori
  • Powers: (Doflamingo) String Manipulation, (Don Fua) D-Ripper, (Turtle) Kinetic Energy Absorption
  • Skill: Don Fua
  • Gear: (Iron Lad) armor, Composite Weather Wand

beatboks1

  • Name: Laoch Mor (great warrior)
  • Body: Steel Sterling
  • Powers: (Amazing man) Matter Absorption,(Argus) Ehnaced Vision, (Nuklon) Density Manipulation
  • Skills: Vril Dox II
  • Gear: (Vril Drox II)Sinestro Corps Ring, Mother box

Original thread Rules

Rules

  • Morals are decided by users
  • Selected gear
  • No prep
  • No knowledge
  • Win by KO, incapacitation & death (no BFR)
  • 20 miles apart

Location: The Shield (Battleworld)

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#2 Posted by Eisenfauste (17366 posts) - - Show Bio

oh man tag.

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#3 Posted by Sy8000 (34795 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Posted by beatboks1 (9764 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Edited by Sy8000 (34795 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

Body: Mori Hui

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Hui Mori is a clone of Jin Mori created by his power of "not" kagebushin no jutsu. Hui himself isn't near as powerful as the original due to circumstances and has confirmed as much by his own admission. This is what he has to say exactly about how their powers compare:

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I'm not sure where he got those numbers because he's a lot weaker by feats. Regardless though he gets an amp later as well as the original Yeoui for this CaV he will be at the level of power he was while Jin was in Oraeguk leaving him weaker stats. Hui is still a very respectable combatant with the stats he's alloted.

While in Monkey King form Hui has multi-city level strength and durability, but considering the nature of my character and this matchup raw stats shouldn't be relevant at the start, so unless they become important later I don't see the need to go into them. What I will show is Hui's senses and reflex speed, which he shows here dodging a sword throw at him from orbit (so moving at re-entry speeds) when it was inches away from him and detecting the angel throwing it with telescopic vision.

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So he has very good draw speed to fire and react to attacks and sensory abilities to detect opponents and attacks.

Powers:

String Manipulation

My character has the powers of the Ito Ito No Mi as demonstrated by Doflamingo. This allows him to create ultra-sharp strings to be used as cutting weapons. These are sharp enough to cut meteors in half.

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These strings can be manipulated for a range of other purposes I'll get into as needed.

D-Ripper:

The D-Ripper is a mechanism built into the body of Don Fua designed to draw energy from the vacuum of space. Here's a description:

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This power can be used to phase through attacks by slipping into other dimensions as Mbadi explains.

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A visual demonstration of Don Fua using this power:

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Kinetic Energy Absorption:

Turtle is a Flash villain who learned how to copy Wally West's ability to Speed Steal. He does so differently, becoming a black hold for kinetic energy as he explains here.

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He can steal speed on a city level, immobilizing everything and everyone within the twin cities while stealing so much speed from Wally he's reverted to normal human speed.

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Skill:

Don Fua is a master of Electromagnetic Karate and is tied with Zekka for position as most skilled being in his universe. For the purposes of this tournament his skill supplements the energy manipulation given to him by the D-Ripper by allowing him to produce two powerful martial attacks: Noble Void Palm and Noble Essence Palm. Noble Void Palm creates distortions in space which allow Don Fua to teleport opponents and attacks away.

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Noble Essence Palm a.k.a. Tiger Killing Fist is the opposite of Noble Void Palm, which creates from nothingness a black hole powerful enough to destroy and consume a massive space station.

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Gear:

Iron Lad Armor

The Iron Lad armor is a version of the armor Kang wears. It's Neurokinetic and can respond to thoughts in order to morph and protect its wearer.

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For offensive output Iron Lad casually one-shotted Iron Man (Pre-Extremis).

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Weather Wand:

Weather Wizard's weapon which he uses to control the Weather. It's abilities are pretty well known but here's a bio with a brief description of it if needed:

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Strategy:

Using Turtle's power my character will drain yours of all their kinetic energy. This form of speed steal doesn't even allow those subjected to it to process thoughts as shown when the cops Wally was speaking to didn't notice him move despite him having a lengthy real-speed encounter with Turtle while they were frozen indicating no one was aware of what had happened to them.

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So your character will not be able to use mentally activated powers that don't require them to move. This should count as incapacitation for an easy win, but I'll entertain the idea it doesn't: While frozen my character will be able to attack yours at leisure using as many sorts of attacks as it takes to kill them. As posted above I have Noble Essence Fist and Iron Lad armor for raw damage output to blast through their durability. To add to that the Weather Wand has esoteric forms of damage output, being able attack them with heatwaves (powerful enough to tax Flash despite his hefty heat resistance) or absolute zero blizzards.

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Also Iron Lad's armor can contain your character in force fields if their durability is too much to bypass. His shields are strong enough to hold Dr. Doom and Magneto for what is indicated to be a reasonable amount of time.

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My character has too many means of damage output for any opponent to realistically defend against, so inevitably I should be able to find something that can defeat yours.

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#7 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36306 posts) - - Show Bio

TFV u will...

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#8 Posted by haoalchemist (6196 posts) - - Show Bio
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#9 Posted by Sy8000 (34795 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:Forgot I couldn't use internal attacks, edited that part out of my post.

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#10 Edited by beatboks1 (9764 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser:

Intro

Body

John Sterling began a series of experiments to create a solution to make him invulnerable to any bodily harm. He finally came up with the chemical solution that would make him invulnerable, but there was a catch. The catch was that after coating himself with the solution, he had to dive into a vat of molten steel that had the solution mixed into it. He coated his body with the chemical solution and then added the solution into the vat of molten steel. He then dived into the molten steel, knowing that he could very easily die the instant his body hit the molten metal. But instead of being incinerated on the spot, Sterling survived and emerged unscathed. He found that his body had become as hard as solid steel giving him not only invulnerability but also limited super strength as well.

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Steel Sterling is far from the strongest or most durable body in this Tourney. His physicals are around the level of the FIRST Blue Beetle (Dan Garrett) and Luke Cage. As has already been said by Highaccuser Physicals really isn't where this battle is at

Powers

Amazing man matter Absorption

Put simple Will Everett is like Absorbing man. he can take on the properties of any inanimate object he touches. Touch Steel and he's a moving piece of steel, Rubber and he's lke Plasticaman, touch a magnet and he has magnetic powers

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Nuklon density manipulation

It's fairly self explanatory really. Al Pratt courtesy of being the Grandson of Cyclotron can increase and decrease his molecular density and consequently his mass.

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Argus - Argus Vision

Now I know many people will be wondering why I would take on the power of a street level character like Argus. Well frankly it's because his vision is just that damn hax. Argus' vision aside from allowing him to see the entire light spectrum (including infra red and ultra violet), also allows him to project future movements, see the "truth" in things, see patterns, break codes,

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Skills

Vril Dox II skills

  • Brilliant scientist
  • brilliant tactician
  • expert manipulator (spin doctor) - has used this on several occasions to defeat enemies smarter than him
  • Decent weapon skills
  • hand to hand combat skills
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He had the knowledge to trap beings that Time cannot hold, outmaneuver Starro anc defet his armies and even though no where near Lobo's physical league was able to biologically enhance himself anough to match him and a fight and had enough H2H skill to win that fight.

Gear

Mother box

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A device that has demonstrated the following abilities

  • Summoning Boom Tubes
  • Matter transmutation
  • Energy manipulation
  • Force Field creation
  • Healing
  • Gravity control
  • Levitation
  • Emotion Control
  • Illusion casting
  • Technopathy
  • Fire manipulation
  • Phasing
  • Telekinesis
  • Dimensional manipulation
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And of course a yellow power ring that can create energy constructs etc.

Counters

Speed steal

Using Turtle's power my character will drain yours of all their kinetic energy.

One thing about Turtle, he himself is very slow and this will reflect on your character built. HIs attempt to steal my speed wont be fast. Given that I have the sight of argus that can see potential occurrences (as he foresaw the accident in the plant) and can see the truth behind things My character will have plenty of time to react.

Using that time and Vrill Dox's knowledge of time (remember he was able to trap a time traveler like Waverider) he will use either the ring or the MB to make this attack not harm him. he will use both to recreate his tachion field that he used to trat a time traveler like Wave Rider. Let's remember Flash;s speed steal doesn't work on time manuipulators like Zoom ao why would Turtle be different.

Also I'll be hinest I remember Turtle a a guy without powers bu tech created that mimicked powers.

Also Iron Lad's armor can contain your character in force fields if their durability

Proof these force fields can hold someone who ca alter the density and pass through solid matter, and dimensionally manipulate?

counter attacks

I use the mother box to bring a piece of promethium from earth and some rubber. I use the yellow ring to merge the two and then touch it. This gives me a body as stretchy as plastic man With the properties of Promethium that makes it stronger the more firce used against it,

I use the ring to recreate a tachyon cage to hold your teaa member in (making them the ones stollen of all speed.

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#11 Edited by HigherPower (11983 posts) - - Show Bio
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T4V my good sir.

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#12 Posted by Sy8000 (34795 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

One thing about Turtle, he himself is very slow and this will reflect on your character built. HIs attempt to steal my speed wont be fast. Given that I have the sight of argus that can see potential occurrences (as he foresaw the accident in the plant) and can see the truth behind things My character will have plenty of time to react.

Turtle being slow is a physical disability of his body. It's not reflected or because of his powers. Hui's body being highly hypersonic will not have this issue.

Turtles' powers also don't work at a slow speed, considering upon regaining his powers he stole speed from two guards instantly.

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Also he jumpstarted his powers enough to escape prison by taking energy from Superman and Flash running past Iron Heights when they were running across the planet so he can presumably drain a lot of speed very quickly. This is supported by Wally being reverted to normal human speed as soon as he was affected.

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In order for your character to react in time, they would have to straight up beat mine to the draw. You haven't presented any speed feats for Steel to suggest he can do so seeing as Hui can react to re-entry objects (mach 25 minimum) that are only inches away from him. He can also outspeed instant teleportation for draw speed:

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Using that time and Vrill Dox's knowledge of time (remember he was able to trap a time traveler like Waverider) he will use either the ring or the MB to make this attack not harm him.

Which attack? Speed steal? It happens instantly so he won't have any time to try either of these.

he will use both to recreate his tachion field that he used to trat a time traveler like Wave Rider. Let's remember Flash;s speed steal doesn't work on time manuipulators like Zoom ao why would Turtle be different.

First off, you haven't shown Mother Box or a Ring instantly creating highly advanced technology in this manner. Even if they are capable of it, creating the tech would take precious seconds that would be more time for speed steal to take effect.

Second, the tachyon field you showed Dox using doesn't do what you're suggesting. It countered Waverider's time manipulation, it didn't replicate it. This doesn't mean Dox can give himself Waverider's powers on a whim with the right resources, and in fact nothing shows Waverider was incapable of speeding himself up with time manipulation considering doing so wouldn't have helped him get out.

Finally, Zoom resisting speed steal was rather odd. The explanation was that he didn't have super speed to drain but that doesn't explain why he wasn't just reverted to a statue considering Wally can speed steal from people without super speed. A logical in-universe explanation would be that speed steal wore off on Zoom so fast it accomplished nothing. But even if you want to go with explicit showings, Turtle's speed steal functions a different way considering he doesn't gain the speed he steals and is a black hole for kinetic energy rather than just stealing speed selectively, so Zoom's showings don't transfer here.

Also I'll be hinest I remember Turtle a a guy without powers bu tech created that mimicked powers.

He was in early appearances. He later got full out powers as shown with him stealing speed from Wally and Superman while in Iron Heights with no access to tech.

Proof these force fields can hold someone who ca alter the density and pass through solid matter, and dimensionally manipulate?

I would think you'd need to show proof Nuklon's abilities can phase through energy, considering they have quite a different atomic structure from solid objects. Regardless, Magneto's powers work via EM manipulation and pass through solids easily but were still unable to work through Iron Lad's force fields, so I see no reason they won't hold fine.

I use the mother box to bring a piece of promethium from earth and some rubber. I use the yellow ring to merge the two and then touch it.

Instances of both these objects being able to do so and Dox being aware of it enough to do so?

This gives me a body as stretchy as plastic man With the properties of Promethium that makes it stronger the more firce used against it,

Having a body made of rubber wouldn't actually give you a body as stretchy as Plastic Man unless Amazing Man has feats of doing so, considering Plastic Man has elasticity far above real rubber. With the Weather Wand I should still be able to freeze you considering Plastic Man has been defeated that way in the past.

Promethium having resistance against physical force isn't very helpful here. It would have to hold against black holes, absolute zero, extreme temperatures, energy blasts and meteor level cuts.

I use the ring to recreate a tachyon cage to hold your teaa member in (making them the ones stollen of all speed.

Ignoring the reasons I've stated this shouldn't be possible, my character is not powered by time manipulation like Waverider is so I'm not sure why this would be much of a problem. He seems quite capable of thinking while in that field and it won't stop non-time based powers that don't require motion.

Furthermore Doflamingo can turn objects into strings with his Awakened Devil Fruit so it's very plausible his powers can transmute the tech holding my character or simply transmute the Mother Box off the bat. In fact with this ability I shouldn't even worry about my character getting trapped considering he can just assault yours by turning the environment into strings while remaining motionless.

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I also question your ability to tag my character with a field like that given the speed I've demonstrated. But the truth is the fight should be over instantly because of speed steal which you can't counter.

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#13 Edited by beatboks1 (9764 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser:

1. He stole the speed of the guarss ONLY when they were in the door of his cell. A prison cell is what 4x6?? Not 20 miles like we start apart. If it acted as you said over any distance why would Turtle have needed Superman and Flash to come near the prison??

2. It's a by-product of Turtles power that hes slow. Having his power would take from your speed. You will be faster than Turtle because of your bodies speed but i thinking having his power gave you up anything remotely resembling sonic speed. Quite frankly there is a massive inconsistancy of Turtle given that in most of his appearances his ability to steal kinetic energy is attributed to his gear not a power.

3. Where did I say anything about creating tech?? Why would I create tech when I brought two vastly more sophisticated devices capable of doing vastly more than any device i could make? Power rings bend time and space all the time (its how Lanterns of all types travel vast distances through space so quickly). Do I really need to provide scans of things that are common knowledge?? Mother Boxes do also. Not to mention mother boxes can manipulate ANY form of energy.

http://m.imgur.com/MckTfKK?r

Making is simple to reverse the polarity of Turtles energy drain field and drain your own speed. Added to which Mother boxes are also sentient and can act on their own and do so tk protect their bearer.

Lets also remember that in the JLA/Avengers cross over Iron man used one to predict the future. This on top of the sense of argus will mean speed is irrelivant.

4. A Tachyon field held in stasis someone who could move throughtime. This is something speed steal cant do. Spead after all is distance measured by time. Stopping the measure completely invalidates movement.

5.I highly doubt you can transmute a mother Box that itself has the power of Transmutation and is linked to the source. After all the Mother boxes were withstanding the destructive energy of the collapsing god wave, I'd place its destructive ability above anything your build has.

Bottom line your attempt to drain my speed caused you to loose your own. You have no proof that this speed steal can happen instantly over 20 miles (in fact your scans prove the opposite). I have two means of being aware of this attack before it can possible reach me, and several means via two pieces of gear to ensure it doesnt. At worst case I simply open a boom tube or spartial vortex with the ring and move either you or you attack so it strikes you.

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#14 Posted by those_eyes (17291 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by Sy8000 (34795 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

1. He stole the speed of the guarss ONLY when they were in the door of his cell. A prison cell is what 4x6?? Not 20 miles like we start apart. If it acted as you said over any distance why would Turtle have needed Superman and Flash to come near the prison??

I was showing the speed his powers happen at. The fact that he stole the speed of everything in Central and Keystone city is ample proof enough his powers cover a wide range quickly. Once Superman and Flash gave him a boost of kinetic energy he was clearly more powerful and not bound by whatever limits he was under in the prison.

Besides Doflamingo's string manipulation allows him to simulate flight by attaching strings to clouds.

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With Hui's speed and strength propelling him and flight making it easier, it would be easy to cross 20 miles in seconds. With just the travel speed allowed by his two legs Hui ran back to his opponent instantly after getting knocked across a city block, that's at least several miles in one second. And this is in base form which is depowered.

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With string manipulation Hui would be swinging himself at your character with his physical strength. Hui is strong enough to lift up his staff when it's extended all the way to orbit with width comparable to a city, so it would be very possible to fling himself at speeds where he can blitz your character from 20 miles away.

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2. It's a by-product of Turtles power that hes slow.

No it's not. As you pointed out Turtle was originally a tech using villain who was still slow. In fact my scans show him stating he was slow his whole life so it's clearly not a limit imposed by his powers.

Having his power would take from your speed. You will be faster than Turtle because of your bodies speed but i thinking having his power gave you up anything remotely resembling sonic speed. Quite frankly there is a massive inconsistancy of Turtle given that in most of his appearances his ability to steal kinetic energy is attributed to his gear not a power.

I still have reflex and draw speed which is more relevant here, I don't need physical movement speed. Turtle was tech wielding, in his earlier appearances. Later he was consistently a metahuman.

3. Where did I say anything about creating tech?? Why would I create tech when I brought two vastly more sophisticated devices capable of doing vastly more than any device i could make? Power rings bend time and space all the time (its how Lanterns of all types travel vast distances through space so quickly). Do I really need to provide scans of things that are common knowledge??

Power Rings make wormholes or use hyperspace depending on the writer. That's quite a bit different from manipulating time to the extent of creating a Tachyon field. You would still have to show Dox having enough knowledge of the ring to suggest he could do so. Considering one Ring stated to Mongul it would take 96 straight hours to explain all of its functions and powers Dox would have to be quite familiar with his to be aware it could do something like this.

Green Lantern Corps (Vol 1) 20
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Mother Boxes do also. Not to mention mother boxes can manipulate ANY form of energy.

http://m.imgur.com/MckTfKK?r

Making is simple to reverse the polarity of Turtles energy drain field and drain your own speed. Added to which Mother boxes are also sentient and can act on their own and do so tk protect their bearer.

Turtle's speed steal isn't in the form of a "field" by any available evidence, also it's just the draining of existing energy not the creation of more energy. I don't see why it would have a polarity to reverse.

Lets also remember that in the JLA/Avengers cross over Iron man used one to predict the future. This on top of the sense of argus will mean speed is irrelivant.

While JLA/Avengers apparently happened in DC in some context according to Owlman, it's not entirely canon so it can't be credibly cited.

4. A Tachyon field held in stasis someone who could move throughtime. This is something speed steal cant do. Spead after all is distance measured by time. Stopping the measure completely invalidates movement.

As shown in your scans the Tachyon field doesn't prevent movement, Waverider was capable of moving to struggle against it he just wasn't successful. My character would be.

There's nothing suggesting that this would even work on my character while they remain immaterial by phasing into other dimensions either.

5.I highly doubt you can transmute a mother Box that itself has the power of Transmutation and is linked to the source. After all the Mother boxes were withstanding the destructive energy of the collapsing god wave, I'd place its destructive ability above anything your build has.

I would need to see these instances, regardless even if my character can't transmute your gear directly he can still transmute the mechanisms of the tachyon field or simply attack you with strings while immobile.

Bottom line your attempt to drain my speed caused you to loose your own. You have no proof that this speed steal can happen instantly over 20 miles (in fact your scans prove the opposite). I have two means of being aware of this attack before it can possible reach me, and several means via two pieces of gear to ensure it doesnt. At worst case I simply open a boom tube or spartial vortex with the ring and move either you or you attack so it strikes you.

I've addressed speed steal, but you haven't really explained how you win even if you get around it. You've shown nothing to suggest you can tag my character with the tachyon field while I have vastly better stats and destructive output. How does your character even defend against my attacks when they slice up meteors and one-shot Iron Man? Or react to hypersonic speed?

Finally the Ito Ito No Mi has one last hax, Parasite String. This allows Doflamingo to take control over people with his finger movements. With this my character could easily immobilize yours even while trapped.

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In fact he was capable of controlling Desrossa's army without even being in the city, so it's entirely plausible for him to simply stop your character's motions from across the starting distance right off the bat.

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Your character only has one route to victory which is a far-fetched strategy to create a Tachyon field. My character has one primary route to victory with speed steal, but doesn't need it to when he has with vastly greater stats and raw power to overwhelm your character in a one-shot blitz. I just have way more options to win here.

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#16 Posted by dane (10861 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Posted by beatboks1 (9764 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser:

Sigh. Look at your own scan of rhe "after effects" of turtle stealing the speed of central city. He learned how to steal speed by studying.his condition. A condition that makes him slow. As such your choixe of power negated your bodies speed because in tutle's own words he is a black hile for speed.

Nothing in that scan shows how quickly or even how wide the effect of Turtle's speed steal is. Your other scan does show it fast within a small confined area.

The fact is turlte thinks slow, talks slow and as such I have plenty of time to errect a defence against his power since i have three means of percieving what it is in advance and projecting its movement and use. Power rings have been used by far less intelligent people than Dox to scan and analyze things. Argus' vision sees the truth and projects trajectories and future events instantly. Mother box can predict the future as used by IM in the completely canon cross over for DC. Your character choice is DC sonit relates to him as it was cited in canon DC tales.

I have shown Dox use a Tacyon field to contain a time manipulatlor that speed steal wouldnt work on showing an easy barrier to prevent it even reaching. He has two decices capable of recreating this field instsntly. I have shown a mother box reversing the polarity of two different energy attacks simultaineously so that they affected the attacker and not the one wielding the MB.

Your speed steal fails because i can enact a defense before your slow thinking build even has a chance to launch it. Of I need to spam the thread with the many scans of Turtle post his research being unable to steal the speed of Flash to stop him winning then I will but really, its a huge push on your part.

I'm also curious to know how these strings move when in a tachyion field that holds time still to the users will. When contracted the field was quite harmful to Waverider. Also like to know what stops me simply dimensionally distorting space aroind me with the mother box so that when they get close to me or MB they are actually contacting and transmuting you.

I've actually yet to see any destrictive output from any of your powers etc that even matches let alone exceeds that of a sinestro ring. Rings that have harmed Cyborg Supes and mongul.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTdtUsZZxaIXtDqSPqFxWNPnlEwEA7sCI7hUBzA4l-6YXBil2T7fN1tuh7sPg

Let alone get through the protection a MB offers

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcToTt9pz3f441yEgYMHS9vKUvA71ezPBJp2alnBljY0zDuzYIITZKxVb69UnA

Darkseid hismelf knew it would protect the forever people form the collasping god wave (cant find the rest ATM on a google search and on a phone).

BTW I havr actually presented 4 attakcs not one and you havent addressed any because your so focused on a failed speef steal.

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#18 Posted by Sy8000 (34795 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

Sigh. Look at your own scan of rhe "after effects" of turtle stealing the speed of central city. He learned how to steal speed by studying.his condition. A condition that makes him slow. As such your choixe of power negated your bodies speed because in tutle's own words he is a black hile for speed.

No...he said he learned to speed steal because he hated his condition, not because it somehow contained the secrets to speed steal. Turtle was actually capable of moving at normal speeds after stealing sufficient speed from Wally.

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Seriously, Wally even states its Turtle's metabolism that's slow. He doesn't say anything about powers because there's nothing to say.

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Nothing in that scan shows how quickly or even how wide the effect of Turtle's speed steal is. Your other scan does show it fast within a small confined area.

I don't think you're reading the scans properly, and I'm sorry but I really need you to pay attention. I'll repost the scans:

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The speed drain hits Wally as soon as it hits everyone else in the cities. If his powers worked the way you suggested, it would've taken much longer than this and the speed steal process would've been noticed before it could do anything significant. You're also suggesting that areas past Wally wouldn't have been affected which wasn't shown and would've needed to be shown considering having a whole city get its speed stolen behind you would have a damn lot of effects.

My character will blitz yours. You do not have a way around this.

The fact is turlte thinks slow, talks slow and as such I have plenty of time to errect a defence against his power since i have three means of percieving what it is in advance and projecting its movement and use. Power rings have been used by far less intelligent people than Dox to scan and analyze things. Argus' vision sees the truth and projects trajectories and future events instantly.

Now this one you really can't prove. Just because Turtle physically moves slow doesn't mean his brain works any slower, just that it takes longer to act on his thoughts. Even if I accepted your claim that Turtle's powers detract from speed (I don't in the slightest) there's no reason they detract from my characters hypersonic perceptions.

I'm not sure what Dox is supposed to analyze either considering his ring has no info on Hui's body. Argus' powers are based on sight and he won't have a visual of my character at the 20 mile starting distance. My character moves at speeds you're can't perceive so Argus vision won't be helpful.

Mother box can predict the future as used by IM in the completely canon cross over for DC. Your character choice is DC sonit relates to him as it was cited in canon DC tales.

You can't say "completely canon" when we don't even know if it happened in mainstream DC universe. Regardless I'll drop this point.

I have shown Dox use a Tacyon field to contain a time manipulatlor that speed steal wouldnt work on showing an easy barrier to prevent it even reaching. He has two decices capable of recreating this field instsntly.

Time manipulation has nothing to do with speed steal so I'm still very confused why you keep bringing that showing up without actually connecting it to my character, who is nothing like Waverider and doesn't rely on the same power source or function even remotely similar to him.

And you still haven't shown Dox do anything like creating a Tachyon Field with these weapons. I'm sorry but you're reaching at this point.

I have shown a mother box reversing the polarity of two different energy attacks simultaineously so that they affected the attacker and not the one wielding the MB.

Speed steal isn't an energy attack it just drains existing energy...how on Earth would it have a polarity?

Of I need to spam the thread with the many scans of Turtle post his research being unable to steal the speed of Flash to stop him winning then I will but really, its a huge push on your part.

You honestly do need to provide showings to showcase your point, because the fact that you haven't in the slightest so far means there is nothing to go off of. But hell, it's not like the issue I'm citing is the only instance of this either considering Turtle rendered Jay and Bart unable to chase the Rouges instantly by just getting dumped in his general area if you need consistency:

No Caption Provided

I'm also curious to know how these strings move when in a tachyion field that holds time still to the users will.

Your own scans show quite blatantly, it does not do that. It doesn't hold the users will, Waverider was capable of moving, thinking, hitting it, etc. All it does is prevent time manipulation which my character isn't even using. It may as well have been a kryptonite prison used on Superman for all it matters against my character.

How would this even affect my intangible character?

Also like to know what stops me simply dimensionally distorting space aroind me with the mother box so that when they get close to me or MB they are actually contacting and transmuting you.

The fact that my character is intangible and not constrained to this dimension.

I've actually yet to see any destrictive output from any of your powers etc that even matches let alone exceeds that of a sinestro ring. Rings that have harmed Cyborg Supes and mongul.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTdtUsZZxaIXtDqSPqFxWNPnlEwEA7sCI7hUBzA4l-6YXBil2T7fN1tuh7sPg

The power of Rings depend on the users. Vril Dox does not inherit Sinestro's feats when he's obviously the most powerful member of his Corps. He needs his own, individual feats with the ring.

Let alone get through the protection a MB offers

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcToTt9pz3f441yEgYMHS9vKUvA71ezPBJp2alnBljY0zDuzYIITZKxVb69UnA

Darkseid hismelf knew it would protect the forever people form the collasping god wave (cant find the rest ATM on a google search and on a phone).

I'm going to need more context, issue numbers and scans.

BTW I havr actually presented 4 attakcs not one and you havent addressed any because your so focused on a failed speef steal.

Yes I have...I addressed everything you said in your first post and you completely dropped it, Nuklon and Amazing Man's powers specifically.

I have to conclude from that you're admitting the incredibly long shot Tachyon Field strategy is the only way you can win. And that strategy is too far-fetched and not at all supported by feats. Mine is much more effective and your only counter for something as basic as my character blitzing and slaughtering yours with the gross stat and power gap is a baseless claim that my character is slowed down and doesn't have access to feats you can't possibly match.

This is a mid tier tourney and you need speedto compete, not one single and overcomplicated tactic supported by a few powers that are out of their depth. I'm sorry but you didn't come well prepared to this.

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#19 Posted by beatboks1 (9764 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser:

Sorry dude, but your credibility just completely fell apart. You pathetic attempt to crop a page to prove what you want that actually proves what I siad will be your doom

No Caption Provided

The full statement says that turtle is "slowest man alive............metabolism is slow-- LIKE HIS MIND WORST POWER EVER"

I don't know how I am misreading that. His power is that he's slow, thinks slow, and talks slow JUST LIKE I SAID

Now lets look at your other evidence

No Caption Provided

You've claimed that turtles speed steal is instantaneous. Yet what we see on panel refutes this. WESTTTTTTT next panel TTTTTTTTTTT

clearly it isn't instant at all. It takes time to happen and this is relatively close to the source of Turtle who is at best a few hundred feet away. Remember Wally only had to walk out of the interrogation room, through the squad-room onto the street and there was Turtle. That's not even one mile apart not the 20 miles we start.

Also where anywhere in the other three scans you've posted does it even show Turtle activating or initiating his power??? It doesn't, it shows the effect AFTER the power has reached it's target. The fact is the only time we ever see Turtle instigate a speed steal is when he did it to Wally on page 13 of that issue. That was AFTER he'd already taken enough of Wally's speed to make his speed normal human levels, against someone who didn't even know he was capable of it. It really didn't look very quick and actually required him touching Wally (clearly this isn't a requirement but just saying that is the only time we actually see Turtle perform the action of initiating a speed steal). So again NO PROOF OF SPEED OF HIM DOING IT.

Did you think you were the only one with a copy of Flash 213 (Vol 2)???? I have the complete run including the rogues war arc your other scan comes from (another blatant misrepresentation) post Capt Boomer butt's demise.

Now to your also false claim that Turtle's speed steal makes him normal speed.

On page 15 of the issue (213) wally was even further drained of speed than when he stated he "felt like a normal man" and his "arms and legs weighed a 1000 lbs" in your scans. He tapped into the speed force and got back just enough to move a leg (we know it was no more than that because he couldn't even stand and stated he felt like he hadn't eaten in days and it was hard to think afterward) and he was able to kick Turtle away with Turtle unable to even react. So Turtle having stolen all the speed of the viewable area, having stolen enough of Wally's speed to make him normal AND THEN STOLEN MORE couldn't even react to Wally in this state of being slower than a normal human

HARDLY EVIDENCE OF HAVING GREAT SPEED AND REACTIONS NOW IS IT.

Now this one you really can't prove. Just because Turtle physically moves slow doesn't mean his brain works any slower, j

O_o ???? It's blatantly stated by Wally in your cropped image metabolism slow "LIKE HIS BRAIN". I don't need to prove it, you did it for me, just didn't crop quite enough hey??

. Never mind the fact that EVERY interaction with Turtle it takes him forever to conjugate his words and form a sentence. More evidence of slow thinking every single time he appears.

Argus' powers are based on sight and he won't have a visual of my character at the 20 mile starting distance.

Argus can see the Flash who is imperceptible to human eyes , can see the weak points in aliens from a distance , during Bloodlines could actually see things Superman could not (looking for Bloodlines issues for scans now).. Hell he perceives things that aren't even on a visible wavelength like emotion

No Caption Provided

And that was when his eyes were plunged out by an enemy.

A visual is the least of my problem as he sees things that aren't "visual" (like I said hax sight)

You honestly do need to provide showings to showcase your point, because the fact that you haven't in the slightest so far means there is nothing to go off of. But hell, it's not like the issue I'm citing is the only instance of this either considering Turtle rendered Jay and Bart unable to chase the Rouges instantly by just getting dumped in his general area if you need consistency:

In the very issue you've citing he NEVER completely steals Wally's speed and as shown he still couldn't react to a kick from a slow Wally. In the scan you provided from the Rogues war arc (after Boomerang's death) Turtle never actually stole any speed(your scan doesn't show what you'd like us to believe). Turtle actually did NOTHING, In fact he was being held against his will. MM blow harding about their speed not working doesn't mean it didn't, we didn't even see them try. What we see in that panel is their surprise at suddenly not seeing Wally. This was because in the previous Issue Prof Zoom had attempted to reverse time and taken wally out of Time. Then the Rogues disappear. It's funny how prior to Prof Zoom there was NO ISSUE with regards any Flash family members speed in that run

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

Same battle two issues earlier (Flash 233) prior to Zoom and Prof Zoom chiming in with ALL the same participants ( Turtle was there from Boomerang's funeral with kid Boomer but going all ballistic on the rest of the rogues) and Turtle never did a thing to steal their speed with the rest of the rogues getting hit on.

Your own scans show quite blatantly, it does not do that. It doesn't hold the users will, Waverider was capable of moving, thinking, hitting it, etc. All it does is prevent time manipulation which my character isn't even using.

My own scan is of Dox using tech to produce the effect. Tech that when he pressed a button in panel 5 made Waverider pretty much catatonic. Here he's using a yellow ring like he did in issue 11 of R.E.B.E.L.S. In that Issue IIRC he used said ring to save a few team mates from space with a stasis field (same as I'm suggesting here). I can't find my issue at the moment for the scans but have found that it's on comixology, so If I can't find it tomorrow I'll think about repurchasing it to get the scan before I leave on hols for Singapore. The ring is controlled by will so at his will it would be the amped up higher level field. the scan I used isn't a representation of how it's being achieved here.

It may as well have been a kryptonite prison used on Superman for all it matters against my character.

But that is just it, it IS Kryptonite to your character. Wally can't speed steal Zolomon because he is time moved not speed moved. A tachyon barrier or stasis field (which are regularly produced things by far less intelligent lanterns than Vril Dox) is a time protection, one that doesn't actually manipulate time and break the rules

Gotta start getting ready for work so will address the rest of this later

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#20 Posted by boschePG (6210 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: @highaccuser:

this is really good. I wont vote cuz we are in the same bracket if I get past my battle. Just wanted to let you know. Good stuff

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#21 Edited by HigherPower (11983 posts) - - Show Bio

Keep it up guys.

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#22 Edited by Sy8000 (34795 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1:

Gotta start getting ready for work so will address the rest of this later

It's been a day, you still going to update this? Because I'd rather just open it up for votes at this point.

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#23 Posted by beatboks1 (9764 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser: yeah thatz fine

To busy getting packed for a family holiday to Singapore and Hong Kong

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#24 Posted by Sy8000 (34795 posts) - - Show Bio
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#25 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14555 posts) - - Show Bio

@highaccuser: @beatboks1: Voting is open.

Users should present some reasoning for their vote, meaning they should note what convinced them or didn't form either side.

Participants refrain from interjecting in the thread (PM if you want) until the end of voting. However asking for consecutive criticism is allowed.

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#26 Posted by Sy8000 (34795 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Posted by MICKEY-MOUSE (36306 posts) - - Show Bio
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#28 Edited by Monokuma61 (7 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh my god. This is amazing, I don't know who to vote for with these builds and strategies. And this is not even because of being in the bracket or anything, this is just overall crazy for a matchup.(This is deathhero)

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#29 Posted by those_eyes (17291 posts) - - Show Bio

Turtle!!!!

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#30 Posted by dane (10861 posts) - - Show Bio

Voting for Beatboks.

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#31 Posted by beatboks1 (9764 posts) - - Show Bio

@dane said:

Voting for Beatboks.

Thanks for the vote, but could you give a brief reason. I think Mr Ingenuilty (Tourney host) is looking for at least a brief statemtn to show why votes were made just to eliminate sock or alt accounts, and biased votes etc.

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#33 Posted by dane (10861 posts) - - Show Bio

@dane said:

Voting for Beatboks.

Thanks for the vote, but could you give a brief reason. I think Mr Ingenuilty (Tourney host) is looking for at least a brief statemtn to show why votes were made just to eliminate sock or alt accounts, and biased votes etc.

Yeah, for sure.

The biggest differences for me probably came down to:

A) The presentation of evidence:

I found highaccuser's scans to be a little difficult to follow and find context for. Additionally I found his explanation of his powers and abilities to be a little murky. It might be that it's the flow of the narrative in some of those web comics, but it seemed hard to gauge the characters abilities and limitations without more evidence. If it was a very popular character like Thor or Superman and he said 'they're really strong/durable' and showed only a few scans, it might have been passable. But to me the characters were very obscure, so I would have liked at least some evidence of what they can/can't do.

I thought you missed out on a channce to prove the abilities of a power ring, which may have been a flaw in your build being exposed. At the same time, to me it seemed like your tactics could be executed even if your ability to use the ring was limited or impaired.

B) What arguments were made with the evidence:

I thought mostly highaccuser's argument was centered around stealing your character's speed to stop you from functioning. I wasn't convinced by the evidence presented that he could rob you of your speed totally, as some Flashes have been able to do. Additionally there were too many ways for someone with Vril Dox's intelligence and access to a Motherbox/Power Ring, and Density Manipulation to evade or avoid physical contact as you rightly pointed out. You had a lot of ways to prevent the gambit from paying off and you made sure everyone knew it.

In summary, I felt that you exposed flaws in his build and argued well for the advantages of your character. Which is generally the goal in these debates. I felt highaccuser was less convincing and unable to produce adequate evidence to make his proposed strategy likely to succeed.

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#34 Edited by HigherPower (11983 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_ingenuity: My vote goes to @highaccuser. It was an incredibly hard decision, and I actually had to re-read a couple of times and his argument just felt more thought out and convincing. I could feel the hours invested into it, and he maintained his composue while it felt at times beatboks was getting (somewhat) exasperated.

It was a good read either way, and I give credit where it's due so props to beatboks1 for doing an outstanding job.

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#35 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14555 posts) - - Show Bio

I would assume its my job to bump this.

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#36 Posted by Sy8000 (34795 posts) - - Show Bio
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#37 Posted by BeaconofStrength (12487 posts) - - Show Bio

Gonna have to for for Highaccuser on this one. He made a convincing argument in favor of his physicals, had a larger amount of options, appose to Beatboks' limited strategies. While the speed steal argument went back and forth, and swayed me multiple times, I believe Highaccuser was able to bring more options to the table in ways to win. I also wasn't convinced with beatboks saying that HA's character would inherent Turtle's thought process, since HA simply chose the speed steal as his power. Good debate, though - excellent points made by both of you.

Tag me for voting in all the tournament match ups, by the way.

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#38 Edited by MICKEY-MOUSE (36306 posts) - - Show Bio
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#39 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14555 posts) - - Show Bio

...

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#40 Posted by beatboks1 (9764 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_vulcan: @beaconofstrength: @dane:

Thanks all for voting.

God_vulcan beleive me nothing exasperates me about a comic debate. Dont confuse emotion with debating tactics. The reason trolls are so despised is that they drive u mad and tjat makes you go off. In CV's I always finding acting just a little trollish puts your apponent off balance. Like it didnhere with high almost pleading with me to "re-read the scans".

@highaccuser best of luck next round :D

Beaconofstrength I'm curious hownone gets half of a power, but cool.

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#42 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (14555 posts) - - Show Bio
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#43 Posted by DeathHero61 (18485 posts) - - Show Bio