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#201 Edited by dorukesin (7421 posts) - - Show Bio
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#202 Posted by Mattersuit (4295 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: how can he win? Michael has infinite amounts of the most basic form of energy which is used to create even abstracts like dreams and magic and cosmic power, how can LT counter that?

He can pour out just as much energy, and he can shape it, channel it, focus it. Michael cannot.

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#203 Edited by Mattersuit (4295 posts) - - Show Bio

Siding with LT. Precision trumps raw power here.

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#204 Posted by Baron_von_Santa (5846 posts) - - Show Bio

@mattersuit: Michael can, i have told you many times. do not just read wikis about their powers, read the comic

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#205 Posted by KingOfAsh (3935 posts) - - Show Bio

It could go either way (most likely a stalemate), but I'm siding with Michael because I prefer him.

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#206 Posted by Gaztacular (409 posts) - - Show Bio

@baron_von_santa:

Does LT have Lucifer's mind and willpower? No. Lucifer is a complex but prideful being. He is also not in this fight. But what LT has is a mind and willpower so incomprehensible that Eternity, the only creature LT deigns to label a peer can not begin to relate to them. Eternity is the sentient universe entire and the Living Tribunal is that far beyond him.

Does the Living Tribunal have Michael's power? Yes.

In what way is "supreme being creates nigh omnipotent second to help shepherd creation" NOT the same origin story?

I do not put Shazam on Molecule Man's level. Molecule Man has substantially more power than the wizard. But at least they're in the same ballpark. Both are humans who acquired power to the point they become respected members of universal scale bodies such as the Quintessence and the Cosmic Brigade. The point is that neither of them is in the same league as Michael or LT.

I didn't say you said that. My statement was trying to point out that comparing LT to Spectre isn't helpful to resolving this battle. Any power evidenced in scans of the Spectre in action pales in comparison to what the Living Tribunal throws around. All they have in common is the judging. Everywhere else the two characters are so far removed that suggesting otherwise just confuses the issue.

And again I would ask that you please just stop telling people that they are wrong. It's somewhat ill-mannered and hardly makes up "a hard day of debating."

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#207 Edited by Baron_von_Santa (5846 posts) - - Show Bio

@gaztacular: still i ask where did i compare LT to spectre? and molecule man is not in the same league as LT, he is higher.

help shepherd creation? spectre is the one who does that, not Michael.

if you do not want to be told you are wrong then do not make mistakes

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#208 Edited by alternative_backup (931 posts) - - Show Bio

@jmarshmallow Michael and Lucifer, could beat LT, alone. Michael and Lucifer, together, they would beat judge of Marvel.

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#209 Edited by rolldestroyer (3543 posts) - - Show Bio

@dorukesin said:

this is based on his comic,like i said i don't find the scans now

read and then argue with me,when he merged with ROE it makes him strictly infinite like the ROE.

Nah don't worry i don't need the scans, just tell me the issue number so i can read it.......this shouldn't be so hard now should it?

he's killed by aztar in a difficult fight

he's strictly inherent omni-potent,presence and scient

..................Are you serious? you say that he was killed by the spectre yet you call him omnipotent?? nice logic there, not to mention Nabu questions why it took so long for the spectre to destroy him when he could have done so easily:

No Caption Provided

Prior to that Nabu was getting owned by Mordru in JSA #80

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

.......ouch.....omnipotent?

Like i said......it's common knowledge, that Nabu isn't omnipotent only someone who has no clue about Nabu would think otherwise

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#210 Posted by dorukesin (7421 posts) - - Show Bio

@dorukesin said:

this is based on his comic,like i said i don't find the scans now

read and then argue with me,when he merged with ROE it makes him strictly infinite like the ROE.

Nah don't worry i don't need the scans, just tell me the issue number so i can read it.......this shouldn't be so hard now should it?

he's killed by aztar in a difficult fight

he's strictly inherent omni-potent,presence and scient

..................Are you serious? you say that he was killed by the spectre yet you call him omnipotent?? nice logic there, not to mention Nabu questions why it took so long for the spectre to destroy him when he could have done so easily:

No Caption Provided

Prior to that Nabu was getting owned by Mordru in JSA #80

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2Gallery image 3

.......ouch.....omnipotent?

Like i said......it's common knowledge, that Nabu isn't omnipotent only someone who has no clue about Nabu would think otherwise

okay bro,respect

Loading Video...

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#211 Edited by rolldestroyer (3543 posts) - - Show Bio

@dorukesin: Glad you conceded.

That aside, Shazam merging with RoE and becoming "infinite" and "eternal" is a flat out lie, correct? i love how you antagonized me and said that i didn't read the books when you're the one who's lying. Irony at its highest level.

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#212 Posted by dorukesin (7421 posts) - - Show Bio

@dorukesin: Glad you conceded.

That aside, Shazam merging with RoE and becoming "infinite" and "eternal" is a flat out lie, correct? i love how you antagonized me and said that i didn't read the books when you're the one who's lying. Irony at its highest level.

no,im stand behind my words.Honestly i'm not going to struggle about finding issue numbers now

you win ,white flag

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#213 Edited by Rijehu (1780 posts) - - Show Bio

I always see these posts and I tell everyone that individually, Michael, Lucifer, and LT are all around the same power level. DC and Marvel are too different universes with it's own particular limits placed on the character and the universe by its Ultimate being, TOAA or TP. If the 3 fight each other without limitations placed upon them by their creators or plot devices, it would be a match imo. Michael not being able to manipulate his creations really has no affect on his chances of winning, since he could destroy and create anything with or without a gesture, infinitely. He IS God's power, nothing below TP or TOAA can subdue him. He created all power beneath him, that automatically gives him a limitless arsenal. For instance, Mike can use telekinesis to shape his creations. He doesn't need the pure Will that his brother has.

Lucifer's ability to manipulate all of creation limitlessly is far more than enough for him to be a match for anyone under TOAA and TP. Notice I said WITHOUT LIMITS. Lucifer's Infinite Will can be used to will himself the ability to create something out of nothing. That's the point of being a Divine and Supreme reality warper. He IS God's Will, he can will himself to virtually have no limits.

LT is obviously just a mini TOAA, with a far smaller power scale, and far less authority, but he is still a force to be reckoned with for anything less than True Omnipotence (TOOA and TP). He like the Arch brothers, can basically do whatever her wants. Although he can do what Michael and Lucifer can do together, that does not give him the win. It comes down to more than just power, LT oversees the multiverses and all that is in it. Michael created the Multiverses, Lucifer shaped the Multiverses. All three are nigh omnipotent, have near flawless existence, and their durability is off scales. I honestly feel that they are about as close to equal in power as DC and Marvel can get. Unbound Spectre is below Lucifer and Michael so he would be below LT but not by much.

But anyway, between Michael and LT, the fight would come down to who can outsmart who, because whatever Michael creates, LT can create it as well. But whatever LT creates, Michael can easily destroy. LT can manipulate creation but Michael can simply undo whatever it is LT manipulates. That is why I say stalemate.

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#214 Posted by Jigen879 (1803 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: What are the comics where michael fights with the spectre please thanks?

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#215 Posted by Helicoprion (3557 posts) - - Show Bio

LT

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#216 Posted by KingOfKings1 (2092 posts) - - Show Bio

Michael due to infinite power

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#217 Posted by JwwProd (20883 posts) - - Show Bio

Living Tribunal.

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#218 Posted by Ataraxy (152 posts) - - Show Bio

The guy with the Demiurgic power.

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#219 Posted by MichaelJulius (715 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with Tribunal here. Michael's power capability exceeds Tribunals, but he cannot use it fully without help. Living Tribunal can collapse the entire Marvel Omniverse if he wishes, Living Tribunal and Spectre cannot do the same thing in DC's omniverse without some special aide, divine object ect ect.

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#220 Posted by captain_batman_FTW (8905 posts) - - Show Bio

Michael Demiurgos.

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#221 Edited by notaidiotidoit (582 posts) - - Show Bio

LT

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#222 Posted by 23dhjyt (684 posts) - - Show Bio

Needed The Beyonders to handle LT

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#223 Posted by 23dhjyt (684 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternityx: Spectre has infinite speed and is Omnipotence

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#224 Posted by Khael (15331 posts) - - Show Bio
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#225 Posted by The_Caped_Crusader (10533 posts) - - Show Bio

Michael.

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#226 Edited by MysticMedivh (32250 posts) - - Show Bio

Living Tribunal.

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#227 Posted by 23dhjyt (684 posts) - - Show Bio

@khael: Yes he is according the "The DC Comics Encyclopedia The definitive guide to the characters of the DC Universe Updated and Expanded" (I own the book) It says on Page 317 it says in I quote

"Helping Young Justice: As the Spectre, Hal Jordan used his omnipotent power to help SECRET learn the truth about her past.".

1.I know you don't have the book but in the picture it is Spectre doing it not Hal Jordan.

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#228 Posted by omnipotence88 (1209 posts) - - Show Bio

Living tribunal

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#229 Posted by newecho (7264 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

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#230 Posted by The_Caped_Crusader (10533 posts) - - Show Bio

Michael stomps.

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#231 Edited by skyroid (2646 posts) - - Show Bio

i wonder if they are gonna keep LT dead for long time after secret wars

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#232 Edited by Mr_Existence (351 posts) - - Show Bio

Have to go with Michael, but it's really close.

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#233 Posted by ManInTheMountain (1706 posts) - - Show Bio

Michael

He made Spectre look like a cockroach

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#234 Edited by bdelloidgrain2 (1988 posts) - - Show Bio

This is from comicvine character bio:

The archangel Michael Demuirgos is the second most powerful being in creation, rivalled only by his bother Lucifer and surpassed only by their father Yahweh, the God of the Covenant who was the one who gave Michael the Demiurgic Power. The Demiurgic power is essentially the building block for everything. Even concepts such as magic, cosmic and primordial power, time, dreams, emotions, all fall under one big category that is the demiurgic power, and because Michael has infinite amounts of it.

It was Michael who created all the concepts that makes up the Multiverse, which he also created. Michaels power is on such a level that, if he wishes, he could destroy all of creation ten times over.

So Michael wins.

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#235 Posted by bdelloidgrain2 (1988 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with Tribunal here. Michael's power capability exceeds Tribunals, but he cannot use it fully without help. Living Tribunal can collapse the entire Marvel Omniverse if he wishes, Living Tribunal and Spectre cannot do the same thing in DC's omniverse without some special aide, divine object ect ect.

Michael can, if he wished, do that as well... They are both nigh-omnipotent to the highest degree. Therefore this battle is more of a who is your favourite character. I just think people should stop lowballing Michael and Lucifer.

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#236 Posted by karanrasquinha (496 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_red_viper: True. Being the judge of the multiverse automatically makes him smarter than Lucy

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#237 Posted by Mister_Surreal (11087 posts) - - Show Bio

Micheal waves his hand.

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#238 Edited by Mister_Surreal (11087 posts) - - Show Bio

@karanrasquinha: Not really. Lucy already is basically omniscient as he has both knowledge and understand on an ominversal scale far greater than that of the marvel multiverse. The guy outsmarts literal gods on a higher plane of existence than Living Tribunal, who has zero impressive intelligence feats. Lucifer is nigh-omniscient genius on a scale infinitely higher and greater than the virtually feats Living Tribunal.

OT: Micheal with ease.

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#239 Posted by karanrasquinha (496 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_surreal: I don't think LT cares about being intelligent or not lol. His one job is to protect the multiverse. His word is like law in the marvel multiverse. If he went to the DC multiverse he would be powerless since he is a servant to TOAA and not the presence.

If Michael and Lucy came to the marvel multiverse and threatened it, LT could shut them down the same way he did for the IG?

Correct me, but if Lucy and Mikey came to the marvel multiverse, wouldn't they lose a portion of their powers due to the presence not being present?

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#240 Edited by Mister_Surreal (11087 posts) - - Show Bio

@karanrasquinha:

I was just responding to what you said.

No, assuming that this is them in their most powerful forms, they would still solo LT. Both have demonstrated they are still multiversal beings without The Presence being around, even after he left Lucifer was still the ruler of his own multiverse (which he created). While he is technically the source of their power, everything exist’s in the void and as such they still have their ablities. Being the judge of the multiverse didn’t save him from being killed by a group of beyonders.

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#241 Posted by SexyBayonetta22 (2427 posts) - - Show Bio

tribunal wins.