Michael Demiurgos and Lucifer Morningstar vs Thought Robot and Mandrakk

its ok i do it all time lol

Me too :)

:)

@bdelloidgrain2: lol

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/ahriman-and-eldrad-vs-hulk-and-dr-strange-2032927/

There is a reason the Anti CAS/Mandrakk crowd crops this page in every single debate thread around this topic.

"Your Father failed to save his world. Now, it's your turn, Superman. The Dying God left your universe wounded, broken, defenseless and alone in the endless dark...where Mandrakk dwells. Come Closer, I need to eat you raw. As I fed on these servants of God, defenders of the Universe. Drained now. Meaningless."

Stop cropping images, please.

@banecapital: why in the high hell did you bump this thread just to post one of your threads into it

That aside the angels win

@y3kthunder: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/dr-manhattan-vs-chaos-king-2007303/

@banecapital: there you go answered

Either of the brothers solos

Favoritism vs facts.

@michaeljulius said:

There is a reason the Anti CAS/Mandrakk crowd crops this page in every single debate thread around this topic.

"Your Father failed to save his world. Now, it's your turn, Superman. The Dying God left your universe wounded, broken, defenseless and alone in the endless dark...where Mandrakk dwells. Come Closer, I need to eat you raw. As I fed on these servants of God, defenders of the Universe. Drained now. Meaningless."

Stop cropping images, please.

@rijehu said:

@ultraphoenix: The scan says "defenders of the Universe" not defenders of god. The Presence wouldn't need defending by inferior beings anyway. Also, the Pax Dei could easily be vengeful because the Spectre is essentially Top Dog outside of God in Heaven. If both he and the Radient have been taken down, clearly war has been declared on Heaven and they are ready to seek revenge of said culprit. Since Michael not Lucifer made an appearance, The Spectre is the next in line behind The Presence himself. Him being defeated would cause the armies of Heaven to squad up by default.

Also, it seems that people are using Spectre and Radiant (just because they are aspects of God's qualities) as a measuring stick for his power. Even if Mandrakk drained an infinite amount of Spectres and Radiants, it wouldn't equate to the being able to harm the Presence, who infinitely more powerful that may of his creations.

I don't recall even posting the image, let alone cropping it.

@rijehu: I'm sorry, I did not mean to tag you in this. Wrong user tag, that was in reference to Phoenix's comments and not yours.

angel brothers

i can hear the thunder

To my knowledge the Brothers's were not retconned, and it's still a part of god, whoever he is in the dc universe so they win by default

What is this? Team 1 wins no diff.

Lucifer and Micheal stomp

Thought Robot exits the comic and kills the writers. Gg no re.

Don't even need to debate anymore. The answer is 100% gifted to us now.

Not only does the weakest of them dream up Michael and Lucifer to begin with, but they also exist past all the Gods of DC.

/GGthread Mods can close these Monitor threads now.

@MichaelJulius: Hmm if that dreaming up thing is true then platonics such as battler would easily solo DC

Depowered Nix Uotan, dreams up fictions. Is cited above the God of DC.

Battler, has no feats of dreaming up fictions or reigning above the God of one.

Monitors of Nil, infinitely stronger than Nix

CAS/Mandrakk, infinitely stronger than all the Nil Monitors Combined.

Battler Squeezes in just under Nix Uotan. Same with Featherine. Let me know when Battler is literally his own fiction. He'll just be on par with the food source of Monitors.

@MichaelJulius: Hmm battler has feats of literally ignoring Fiction in fiction heirarchies in his verse.Featherine,who should have seen him as fiction,has no way of getting past battler's endless 9.You cannot bypass his endless 9 by adding infinities over him.This is what I would call a platonic hax character

Contained in his own Fiction and not outside of it. Again let me know when anyone in Umineko becomes Umineko itself. When they do, they just became food for the weakest Monitor.

You are making up feats for characters. I've no reason to debate you guys anymore beyond this. Umineko not only does not contain all other fictions (DC does) but Battler and Featherine aren't even the top alpha of their own fiction, let alone the fiction itself (which is food for Monitors)

@MichaelJulius: Battler has feats of literally not giving a fuck whether he is fiction or not to the opposing character.It does not matter if the monitors view him as fiction or not.They are not getting past endless 9.You are being ignorant.

You are just making up feats for him, they've never left their own fictions, Battler isn't his own manga pages or the console the game is played on, he has no feats of interacting with other fictions and isn't even considered food for Monitors yet until he becomes all of that, lol.

"they are not getting past the endless 9" - who are just narratives in a manga and video game that aren't worth the time and effort for Monitors to even consume yet, also DC contains Umineko to begin with so, enjoy finding a reference to all Fictions being inside Umineko. And again, let me know when Battler becomes Umineko itself. :)

@MichaelJulius: You actually think that characters will come out of the comic to go into other comics.May god be with you.

Where is your megathread about how stupid that argument is? Here is mine. I love how you try to turn that back on me as if I'm the one saying it. That's beyond pathetic.

You seem to make up random feats for Battler he doesn't have, so this isn't a shock to me.

Enjoy those scans I posted from the authors of DC. I'm sure they cut really deep and you'll all have trouble sleeping for a while.I don't have to do much now but repost the images now and then so they don't get forgotten. Until then, CAS Stomps Michael, Lucifer, and everyone in Umineko.

Page > Ink

all day long

@MichaelJulius: Hmm battler views higurashi as a detective novel,meaning he sees pages of a book as fiction.Meaning he would see the monitors as fiction.

Peace.

@MichaelJulius: Seriously though,I kind of get what you are trying to say.That leaving fiction is a "form of absolute power".But you do understand that not every fiction is going to denote power in that way?Debates should be about converting feats from one series to other series in a debatable way.Those author feats,when translated to umineko,would mean that the monitors at most transcend their world by a fiction in fiction layer.You saying that monitors are unbeatable unless someone has similar feats is almost equatable to saying "X" character wont be beaten unless you use fire to kill him just bcoz his entire verse is building level.

When Doves Cry = Umineko. You are literally confirming what I've said about Umineko being a contained fiction. Haha. I love how you think these powers are special. Mr. Myxzptlk has the same feats lol. And he is powerless against Monitors by his own statements. Supeboy Prime does too.

Battler = Superboy Prime in terms of feats. Congrats on a great counter-argument.

@MichaelJulius: Hmm that just means monitors are above mxy in the fiction in fiction heirarchy.Umineko has literally two infinite such fiction in fiction heirarchies.

@MichaelJulius: Do the monitors have feats of getting past platonic barriers like endless 9?

@MichaelJulius: Even fodders in umineko have feats of going outside stories as they wish

Yes. The Endless 9 is the concept of willpower from Battlers conscious mind. Take Battler out of Umineko and he does not retain this power. Bring another non Meta character into Umineko to combat that, and Battler will probably win.

This concept of willpower to erase and deny what he wants and that doesn't make sense to him, is not Meta. It isn't the author of his fiction saying it or doing this. This is a fictional character inside of his own fiction with a boss super power.

Great. How does that matter when Monitors ignore the authors of DC Comics? Monitors are immune to retcon. Show me proof that ANYONE in When Doves Cry can look at Ryukishi and say Nah bruh, I don't get rectonned.

Show me someone in Umineko, holding Umineko the Manga or their own video game, and introducing that future story that has not been written yet by Ryukishi, and giving it back to characters in Umineko.

This feat below is absurd beyond imagination by Monitors and obliterates everything in When Doves Cry. I'm not even going to argue the Presence and his heirarchy anymore because its defunkt and absolutely a dead argument in favor of Monitors.

However, Umineko is still on the roasting spit at the moment and not one person in the last six months gave me one single scan, one single piece of evidence to showcase anyone in Umineko doing what Monitors have done.

Mate...this is just the normal Nil Monitors. The entire team combined is nothing to CAS...this isn't a fair fight and never was.

They have never left Umineko. Not once. They go outside of plot points inside of the Umineko narrative, but not the literal comic manga pages. You misunderstand.

Mr Myxzptlk has done the same as Featherine, in fact, he has way better feats than her. He's interacted with the meta world which Ryukishi himself says doesnt exist in When Doves Cry to begin with.

@MichaelJulius: Hmm if monitors do have feats of ignoring higher powers then it seems it is out of battler's league.Ignoring higher powers is stepping into platonic territory.

This is where the problem with the Umineko crowd starts. They see Featherine and Battler tossing narratives at each other and confuse that with them existing outside of Umineko.

Inside their fiction, they toss concepts at each other. I don't disagree, they are super powerful. I've yet to see how that differs from Mr. Myxzptlks infinite imagination power. Literally Imagination itself, whatever you can think of, well, damn, whatever a 5th Dimension imp can come up with is what his power will be. He can replicate everything battler does. All he has to do is imagine it.

Brainiac is a 12th level intellect, he is the smartest villain in DC, he has been outside of the Source Wall. Even he agrees Mxyzptlk is infinite in power.

Myxzptlk cannot touch a Monitor, by his own mouth.

Gallery

Worse for him, these are COIE Monitors and not Morrison Nil Monitors...who are absurdly beyond the COIE Monitors.

All of this can be summed up in one question. Can Featherine or Battler, Michael or Lucifer, or The Presence, leech into "the real world" and remove their own fictions guidebook before it was written by the author? In the Multiversity, the DC guidebook wasn't written yet and came out after the release of The Multiversity, because Grant wanted you to know Monitors are that powerful as to yoink unwritten DC Meta guidebooks from him before he writes them.

NIl Monitors did this as a gesture of goodwill to the Orrery...

@MichaelJulius: Dont get me wrong but all of mxy's feats can be lol noped by fiction in fiction heirarchies,which umineko has plenty of.But from what It seems,monitors are platonic(ignoring beings higher than themselves in the heirarchy)so yeah they seem to beat umineko

I agree with that, Dream of the Endless and Lucifer will absolutely nope Mxy without any effort. Just to name a few. Lots of fictional characters can that I can think of.

The absurdity occurring with the counter-arguments are that plot points inside the comic page are going to defeat the comic page itself, or elements of that comic page their own fiction it printed on. Boggles my mind. Michael and Lucifer, are just characters inside of DC and Vertigo. They cannot combat the physical pages of their own fiction. Grant coming out and saying flat out Monitors > all the DC Gods is just a repeat of what the Cosmic Map already said. Monitors were already always listed above The Endless and the Angels.

Umineko Featherine and Battler are powerful, but they are not on Monitor tier, let alone CAS or Mandrakk who one shots them out of existence. Glad you are on board though.

@michaeljulius:

Can you inbox me I have a question, about a few characters and it won't let me message you

Team 1, they have higher hax than team 2. They win 5/5 together and 4/5 by themselves.

So when the author tells you Monitors are beyond all the Gods of DC, you take that as something less than the Gods of DC being stronger than Monitors? okie dokie...seems about right for how most Monitor threads go.

@michaeljulius: Damn, even the countless confirmations from authors is not enought? When you see the facts, its actually hard to believe that two characters from one of DC's imprints transcends everything in all of DC's comic books when the evidence suggests otherwise.

Opinions are just fine to house, so long as they are cited as such. A lot of people don't care about Author Statements. A lot of people don't care about objective evidence and are only here to vote for their favorites, regardless of how badly they are outclassed.

Its just bias or naivety. Nothing more. Can't fault @sozoz for not reading literally anything on the same page he posted in. I just noticed his last tag of me and he cited it was just his opinion in another thread, so hopefully, that is what this is too and I respect his opinion fully if that is the case. He gets my respect for being man enough to say its just his opinion. I can't say that for the leaders of the Final Crisis Support Group.

@michaeljulius: I think the problem is that they treat it more as a fact rather than as an opinion. And facts at least need some proof, but a lot of people don't try to argue seriously or ignore things that should be clear and easy to understand by just reading it.