Meliodas(Dolor and Gloxinia fight) vs Ulquiorra

@antitheticalopinion: The only reason people in this thread are saying that is because they don't like the outcome

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Bleach is a far more popular and well liked anime than NNT.

@alextheboss: How is 4,500ft a tall mountain? There are dozens of mountains over 12,000ft in the US alone. A 4,500 foot Mountain is not very tall at all for a mountain.

@man_of_miracles: You've gone insane if you think Bleach is more liked than NNT. Bleach has too much filler to be "liked" and the main character is one of the worst on the HST, so no bleach is not more liked than NNT and with the TYBW arc, a lot of people got upset about the rushed aspects of it as well. Bleach is mostly liked for some of their characters, but overall bleach is very popular but not something too many people say they actually liked, and for good reason. Even though I agree that Meliodas would win here since Ulquiorra is not that far off from Gloxina, Bleach is more likely to get more hate than NNT and Naruto combined.

@antitheticalopinion: The bleach fans on this forum are the reason that bleach gets hate on these forums.

I love bleach, one of my favorite. But I very much dislike the fan base on here.

My point is this threads outcome has nothing to do with the popularity of either franchise and it's ridiculous to imply it is.

@man_of_miracles: I didn't say it was. If about 1000 feet is a small mountain and 12,000 feet is a tall mountain, then 4,500 feet would probable be a mid sized mountain. My point was that it was at least the height of a mountain, and that whether you call it tall or short it doesn't change that.

@alextheboss:

anything over 300 meters is considered a mountain. las noches' wall would easily classify as mountain height, the only question is if it would be as tall as a small or large mountain.

That's only the American definition, not the general consensus worldwide. The UK government for example states that a rock elevation has to be at least 610 meters tall in order for it to be considered a mountain, which is double the American standard.

Regardless, from my experience on the Vine, most people consider anything under 1 kilometer to be simply a hill and you aren't considered a mountain buster unless you destroy something that's a least 2 or 3 kilometers tall. That's what i personally consider to be an average mountain.

this guy actually uses pixel scaling to measure the height of the walls of los noches and got around 4,500 feet (1.3 km). Even if we say that is highballing, that's still multiple times taller than it needs to be to be considered as tall as a mountain.

Pixel scaling is never an accurate method of gauging size. In most cases, authors don't consistently draw things to scale between panels and something that looks as big as a mountain in one panel can look as a small as a building in the next.

@man_of_miracles:

You must not know about the naruto fan base then.

@ourmanuel: I do. And besides obvious trolls they are for the most part better than the bleach fan base. But bleach, DBZ, and Naruto, etc. all have there collection of ridiculous bad fans on here.

The main difference I see is the bleach fan base relying way too much on scaling and NLF because the series starts to have very poorly defined hax abilities later on with no clearly defined upper limit due to the limitations of the verse. This makes for very poor debating quality overall.

@kingguinness: I have to agree on the pixel scaling, especially in the case of Los Noches and the Seretei. The inconsistency from image to image and image vs statements makes determining size difficult at best.

@antitheticalopinion: Ichigo is the best protagonist in the HST, bite me.

I actually kinda agree with this. I found naruto to be very naive, in a way, and luffy was just unbearable. Ichigo was very dark and serious and the amount of times characters beat him and caused him to fall into despair, really got to me.

Too bad the bleach series it self is full of so many plot holes that I looks like an oversized pincushion.

True, the problem with Ichigo is bleach, not himself. He's actually realistic and original, unlike many others. The complaints about him are pretty stupid (hE dOEsnT haVE a GoaL)

@faradaysloth: @ourmanuel: Ichigo might actually be one of my least favorite characters in the series but you are right that he is no where near as annoying and Naruto and Luffy both of whom I can't stand.

But it's not really a knock on Ichigo, for some reason the protagonist of many mangas is the least likeable character imo.

@man_of_miracles: true, true. However the one character that’s always the least likable is the flat chested useless female character. Every. Time.

@antitheticalopinion: it’s not liked because it’s wanked to high shit! People saying soul society arc Shunsui is light speed and soul society arc hisagi is light speed and ywach is universal with ease. Beside the wank bleach isn’t hated

@kingguinness: considering the author said las noches is a 3 day walk to the next gate, I think it's completely fare to say it's as tall as a mountain, or else it would look like a pancake. The inside of it also at least seems to be the area of a city, and there are large towers inside it as well. It might not be Everest height, but "mountain" height seems pretty reasonable.

AHAHA No. They literally just threw in every race in bleach and said "Here's our main character, but his abilities are still underwhelming and unimpressive compared to the rest of the side characters." Ichigo is the worst character in his own show, bite me. Orihime has a more interesting concept than him.

@man_of_miracles:

These series rely a lot on scaling idk why you're getting mad at that.

There's several feats and scaling on top of the databook statement that places SS arc ichigo at or above lightning

SS arc Bankai ichigo is fodder to Base ulq which gives you an idea of how massively faster ulq is in his releases.

Gin wasn't even really focused on ichigo.

There was no reason for him to lie to ichigo it wouldn't bring him closer to his goal which was Aizen, ichigo found out his tactic and Gin rewarded his observation by telling him how fast his Bankai was.

@leothegreatest: 1) There is literally no feat that puts SS Ichigo anywhere close to lightening speed. The only way you could get him there is by bad scaling.

2) The only thing that matters is that Gin has an established pattern of lying. He lies basically every time he opens his mouth all the way up until he dies. Not to mention he has already lied about his ability several times which means he is not a reliable source for information about his bankai. Frankly we have no reason to believe he is telling Ichigo the truth.

@faradaysloth: Lol I can't argue with that.

Oh that's your complaint, how he's a mixture of races (even though they clearly explained why is an understandable sense)

And who cares if he's a mixture? That's not a valid complaint, more of just your feelings being hurt (idk how though lol, who gets mad at that?)

Ichigo is one of the ONLY developed characters in Bleach, has realistic emotions, actions, appearance, etc. He's actually matured unlike Luffy, Goku, Natsu, and Naruto.

And you know damn well that Momo Hinamori is the worst character lol.

@man_of_miracles:

1) There's scaling from Orihime reacting to point blank explosions but still being below a 4th seat fodder or Ichigo being supersonic in the substitute soul reaper arc then 5 times stronger when in the Soul society with Renji due to renji getting his limiter off then stronger than renjis bankai in just his shikai which would be 5-10 times stronger then 10 times stronger with his own bankai placing him anywhere from mach 250 to mach 500.

2) I'll reiterate.

Gin wasn't even really focused on ichigo.

There was no reason for him to lie to ichigo it wouldn't bring him closer to his goal which was Aizen, ichigo found out his tactic and Gin rewarded his observation by telling him how fast his Bankai was.

@faradaysloth:

Wym "ONLY" developed characters ? There's a lot of developed characters. Bleach is one of the few series that really shows their side characters love.

@leothegreatest:

1) Like I said the only thing that gets SS Ichigo to close to lightening speed is faulty scaling and numbers you are literally just making up. Like literally you are straight up making up multipliers man lol.

2) Again. It makes no difference if Gin had a reason to lie to Ichigo, he has an established pattern of always lying so we can't trust his statements. But also he does have a reason to lie to Ichigo and that reason is to maintain the lie that he told Aizen. The most likely scenario is that Gin has been lying to everyone about his Bankai for literally then entire time to keep Aizen from finding out the truth.

Also character statements are rarely accepted at face value without feats or other statements to back it up. In Gin's case we have nothing to back up his statement and also separate statement that contradicts his first.

@man_of_miracles:

1) What multiplier did i make up? Every shinigami that goes to earth is given a limiter that only let's them use 20% of their power and the other ones were Bankai multipliers. None of that was made up.

2) I'll reiterate again

Gin wasn't even really focused on ichigo.

There was no reason for him to lie to ichigo it wouldn't bring him closer to his goal which was Aizen, ichigo found out his tactic and Gin rewarded his observation by telling him how fast his Bankai was. He told aizen that the speed he gave long ago before the series started was a lie to keep his bankais true ability a secret. He didn't lie to ichigo.

Yes, Bleach at least does acknowledge it's side characters unlike others however they rarely get developed in a major way.

Uh Bonus round all Espada at once?

What stops him from being aged to dust by Barragan who Ages Even energy out of existence?

@leothegreatest: 1) Well let's see, you place Ichigo at an arbitrary amount of supersonic in the substitute soul reaper arch. Explain how you got to that. Then you place him at 5-10 stronger than Renji's bankai later on which is complete nonsense with no basis. So you can start with those issues first.

2) You reiterating it doesn't make it any more true. Again, when know that Gin lies constantly, we know that he has lied about his bankai speed before, we have no other showing or feats to back up his statement. There is no reason at all to take his statement at face value.

And again, none of this matters anyway because Mel would still be faster anyway you slice it.

@codevein: The fact that he is totally immortal. Check his feats from purgatory. If you haven't seen those you need to do more research before asking this question.

@man_of_miracles: Being immortal isn't a valid excuse of why he doesn't get aged into dust...

Actually that doesn't prove anything at all considering Barragan quite literally ages Energy and bodies out of existence and we watch them fade away as dust in the wind.

You better provide proof that suggests Barragan won't just turn him into dust by breathing on him or touching him hell or being in the same Vicinity as him.

@codevein: Lol, being immortal doesn't prevent you from being aged? What are you talking about?

Barragan has not feats of aging someone who literally doesn't age at all. So it's actually Barragan that needs the feats of aging an immortal.

@man_of_miracles: No you need to prove that Mel can withstand an aura that erodes everything in the vicinity out of existence.

The fact your immortal doesn't mean your not going to get eroded out of existence.

Energy shouldn't age or erode and yet he eroded it out of existence with his very power literally was only beaten by Aizen because of KS and the way he died was having his own power turned on him.

Barragan is a friggin skeleton I imagine he doesn't physically age either and we saw his power erode him out of existence.

So I reckon you post proof Barragan won't Erode Mel out of existence.

@codevein: Barragans ability is to age things to dust. He doesn't erase them from existence what are you even talking about?

You are talking out of your ass and giving Barragan a power he doesn't have.

Meliodas is completely immortal. He doesn't age at all, hence he can't be aged to dust. Additionally he is cursed by the Demon King himself to return to life any time he is killed. So unless the person killing him is more powerful than the Demon King they can't keep him down. And Barragan is not even remotely comparable to the Demon King.

Not to mention Barragan gets his head blitzed off before he can activate respira anyway.

@man_of_miracles: No you can't age energy to dust try again.

He ages physical things to dust because they are made out of tangible physical material such as bone.

You said Mel being immortal means he don't age.

Barragan has been a skeleton for thousands of years saying he doesn't physically age and his power still eroded his very being out of existence.

You realize his Respira is constantly active right?

Aizen used KS on him explicitly because he couldn't physically tangle with Barragan for fear of his power.

And as his human like state Soi fon attempted to attack him he grabbed her arm and Eroded it to dust.

@man_of_miracles: I don't think you know what Erode means so let me help you.

You said he only ages things not erodes.

Erode:

gradually destroy or be gradually destroyed.

This falls in line perfectly with what Barragan does.

@codevein: Dude. His ability is literally to age things. His power is related to time, that is the reason he has a time field around him that allows him to catch Soi Fon.

You literally don't even know the dudes ability and you are trying to argue for him. Acknowledge that his ability is to age things or the conversation is over.

http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Baraggan_Louisenbairn

And again Mel is completely immortal. You act as if Barragan' s ability would work on anyone no matter what lol.

@man_of_miracles: You're acting like it doesn't erase shit out of existence, then do go tell me what happened to Barragan when he was hit with his own power turned against him???

How he died? He didn't crumple he didn't Atomize he legit got erased from existence had barely enough time to throw his weapon at Aizen.

I'll repeat this again, Being immortal doesn't mean you're not capable of being subjected to his power.

I repeat Barragan is a skeleton, he's been one for YEARS he doesn't have heart or lungs or skin to age and his skeletal frame has not aged.

It still worked on him.

Actually says his only known weakness is himself.

So I'm waiting.

@man_of_miracles:

1) In the manga he blitzed screecher before his screech got to his bombs making him supersonic or like i said orihime reacting to point blank explosions but still being weaker than a 4th seated officer. Shikai ichigo after his bankai training managed to clash with with byakuya while bankai renji just got completly obliterated, the basis is clear.

2) You're asking for more showings of a character who died just a few chapters after using the attack? Gin said he lied to Aizen long ago not that he lied to everyone. There was no reason to lie to Ichigo since it wouldn't help his goal nor was he even really focused on ichigo to begin with.

@leothegreatest:

1) Orihime's reactions have nothing to do with her being weaker than someone. So what is the point of saying she is weaker than a 4th seat as if that has some bearing on speed scaling?

Again, you made up scaling numbers. Provide an actual basis or quit wasting my time. You can't just make up multipliers on the fly lol.

2) He didn't just lie to Aizen. He lied to everyone all the time about everything he did. He is an established liar. And again, we don't take character statements at face value without backing feats or statements, of which there are none in this case.

@codevein: Dude. I'm not sure how to make this any clearer to you. Barragan's power is to age things. That is his power, full stop. It's stated in the manga, it's stated in the link that I provided to you.

Whatever nonsense you are spouting about existence erasing is your headcanon and has no basis in fact.

Barragan's power when turned back on him aged his physical form to dust. That's what happened, not whatever nonsense you are making up.

Again, Mel is completely immortal, he doesn't age at all. And again, he is cursed to return to life anytime he is killed by the Demon King. Barragan can not do a thing to him.

@man_of_miracles:

1) Ichigo was lieutenant+ level at the time he was facing Renji meaning he was way above Reacting to pointblank explosions.

My time is the only time being wasted, i'm not making anything up you just have no counter argument whatsoever.

2) This is just denial.

Guess we're done here Ulquiorra is significantly faster and stronger so he bodies.

@leothegreatest: 1) You say being lieutenant level makes you far faster than reacting to point blank explosions but have provided no feats proving that at all.

You literally made up three multipliers in your original post. Shitty scaling is all you have and you do it constantly.

2) No denial at all. I just don't accept Gin's statement at face value because 1) He is an established liar and has even specifically lied about his bankai speed before and 2) There are no feats or additional statements to back him up. Again, character statements are unreliable at best. If we accepted all character statements as fact it would be absurd.

Not only is he not faster but the idea that he is stronger is hilarious. He has absolutely no striking feats on even the level of BOS Mel's level who split a large hill with the shockwave of a freaking twig swing. This is how I know you have no clue what you are talking about.

@man_of_miracles:

1) So 4th seated officers are >>>lieutenants now?

No i litteraly explained them all thoroughly. You not liking them =/= them being iinvalid.

2) The whole instance implies he's telling the truth.

But nonetheless Ulqs still faster through SS arc ichigo scaling.

Ulquiorra can bust Las Noches by simply transforming, splitting a hill is a fodder feat to him.

@leothegreatest: 1) That isn't what I said so what are your talking about? Not to mention speed doesn't always scale with rank, I would think you should know that.

Except you didn't. You said crap like " that should make him 5-10 times stronger" you pulled several multipliers from no where but you own head.

2) It just doesn't. Nothing else to be said.

Yeah Ulquiorra is faster than SS Ichigo. Still doesn't make him near as fast as Mel.

Transforming has nothing to do with physical strength. Are you high?

Not to mention that's BOS sealed Mel.

@man_of_miracles:

1) You obviously know the gap between ichigo and orihime.

Multipliers from no where?

2) Denial isn't an argument.

Destroying an island + construct by simply transforming is power. Power mel is helpless against.