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#1 Posted by AngelJax (11596 posts) - - Show Bio

Melinda May and Grant Ward

No Caption Provided

White Canary and Green Arrow

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Daredevil and Iron Fist

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Who will emerge victorious in this 3-way team battle

Perfect teamwork for the teams

MCU/CW versions

Danny doesn't have chi

Matt and Sara have their standard gears

Oliver gets a bow for melee use only

Danny/May/Ward are unarmed

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#2 Edited by TheSuperor (6317 posts) - - Show Bio

Canary and Green Arrow.

This is an extremely tough fight though.

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#3 Posted by Arcus1 (27659 posts) - - Show Bio

Ollie and Sara, imo

If I had to put people in tiers:

Ollie’s slightly better than everyone else

Matt and Sara are comparable

Danny and the agents are comparable

Those could be debated but as a general grouping, basically how I’m seeing it

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#4 Edited by The_Magister (13493 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax: This is a fantastic fight.

I think under these circumstances I'd give it to Sara and Oliver in a lengthy, incredible fight. You gave Sara her standard gear and gave Oliver his bow for melee use, which afford them both very good reach when it comes to CQC. I think that makes more of a difference than people would think, which is why I give them the slight nod here.

However if one were to disable the perfect teamwork, May and Ward would win in a great fight. Those two are like machines, their coordination with each other in Season 1 was insane.

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#5 Posted by TheOneWhoDoesSo (113 posts) - - Show Bio

This fight would be the most badass fight ever... firstly, power rankings.

Imo Oliver > Matt >=Ward/May > Sara/Danny

Now I know Danny is the revered Iron Fist, but let's be honest, he's not that good yet.

Oliver is without a doubt the best here. May and Ward are easily the toughest team, as both Danny and Sara can't compete with them, even though they're both excellent fighters in there own right, and won't go down easy.

Matts the wildcard.

Here's how I see it, Ward and May split, Ward heading for Oliver while May goes straight for Sara.

Danny goes out of his way to show off to everyone as he is in character. He heads for Oliver too.

Matt takes on Sara, while May intercepts Danny.

Matt beats Sara in a brutal fight.

May beats Danny in an extremely brutal fight.

Oliver beats Ward in a tough fight.

Matt and Oliver are both capable of beating May, and when that's done after one hell of a fight, Oliver beats Matt in what would be an awesome fight.

In fact, the only matchup I'd like to see more would be Oliver vs Bobbi. The two best CQC fighters in their universes(imo) going head to head. He'd win I think but... damn it'd be good.

Anyway, Oliver carries his team to victory.

Just my opinion though, as I know a lot of people consider Oliver overrated. And I can see a case made for that too.

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#6 Edited by The_Magister (13493 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhodoesso said:

Just my opinion though, as I know a lot of people consider Oliver overrated. And I can see a case made for that too.

As someone who will more often than not side with the Netflix or AoS characters, I'm definitely fine with people supporting Ollie in these battles so long as they don't blow his capabilities out of proportion. I don't necessarily agree with parts of your post, but I respect it. Nice post, and welcome to ComicVine.

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#7 Posted by TheOneWhoDoesSo (113 posts) - - Show Bio
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#8 Posted by AngelJax (11596 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_magister: Thank you!

"Disable teamwork" you think Ward and May would win without perfect teamwork?

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#9 Edited by The_Magister (13493 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax: I'm not saying you should disable teamwork! I'm just saying that without perfect teamwork, the dynamics of the fight would change and I'd give the edge to May and Ward. They are like a well-oiled machine when they work together, their combat scenes in Season 1 were exceptional.

What's fascinating is that Ward, despite receiving no new showings as time progresses, still consistently manages to be considered by fans/debaters to be on the same level as top-tier combatants by feats and statements. The writers and choreographers both did one hell of a great job with his character, using it to max potential.

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#10 Posted by Paytience (4719 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_magister: It's the grounded TACTICS of AoS that make that possible. Really hard to argue against common sense some times, and aos does a good job of doing things correctly.

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#11 Edited by The_Magister (13493 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience: I agree. Of course there are lots of elements of comic book logic, but techniques and strategies are really shown accurately at the same time. There is a good balance of both.

I wouldn't even mind if stunt doubles were obvious and the fights were poorly choreographed, the show would still be fantastic. But excelling at the little stuff sets the show apart in combat scenes. That's just my two cents.

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#12 Posted by AngelJax (11596 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience: I can agree to that for the most part.

Do you have an opinion on which team wins this battle royale?

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#13 Posted by deactivated-5a89ca5697052 (8063 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt and Danny.

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#14 Posted by The_Magister (13493 posts) - - Show Bio

This fight would be the most badass fight ever...

I would also just like to point out that this statement could not be more true.

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#15 Posted by AngelJax (11596 posts) - - Show Bio
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#16 Posted by TheSuperor (6317 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax: Sara is slightly superior to the likes of Danny and Ward. She'd also edge out May in a tough fight, but likely fall short against Matt. Oliver being the best fighter here should be able to beat anyone, no matter who he faces. Sara should be able to hold off or beat anyone here, maybe with the exception of Matt.

I view the quality of the fighters like this: Oliver>Matt>Sara>/=May>Danny>Ward. There are of course many factors to take into consideration, but I feel like Oliver should be able to carry his team to a victory under most circumstances.

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#17 Edited by mrmonster (14675 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil and Iron Fist, with Green Arrow and White Canary a close second.

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#18 Edited by The_Magister (13493 posts) - - Show Bio

The combat ranking for me (based on logic, scaling, and feats):

May > Matt = Ward > Oliver = Danny > Sara

I'd normally say that May/Ward would win, but the reach and striking advantage possessed by Sara/Ollie is a big factor. They BOTH have their melee weapons of choice. May/Ward team is fully unarmed, and Matt's billy clubs don't have as much reach. Danny is unarmed too.

That's the only reason I am giving this to Ollie and Sara in a very close battle.

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#19 Posted by geekryan (4252 posts) - - Show Bio

Oliver & Sara take this but not easily.

My ranking from best to worst is: Oliver, Matt, Sara, May, Ward, Danny

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#20 Posted by AngelJax (11596 posts) - - Show Bio

Callouts:

@llehdevil: @killers10333: @cramandman: @khael: @highaccuser: @buildhare: @peterparkerjr: @dstreet45: @brucerogers: @royal_warrior: @js_the_beast: @nfactor1995: @ready_4_madness: @foxerdes: @xtreme1: @mutant1230: @dirtytree333: @webinyoureye11: @jayskee: @celestialknight: @komboing:

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#21 Posted by webinyoureye11 (5519 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax: isn't ward like, superhuman?

I don't know much about AoS or Sara tbh. I can make a case for the defenders, but from what I hear about ward and Sara, they could be too much for Matt, and Danny is not as good as Matt, so he would fare even worse

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#22 Posted by AngelJax (11596 posts) - - Show Bio

@webinyoureye11: Nah Ward isn't superhman, just really good at doing what he does (kicking ass)

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#23 Edited by BruceRogers (17180 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax: Not kept up with AOS lately, mate. Sorry.

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#24 Posted by DSTREET45 (5246 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax: Haven't seen enough of LoT to comment about Sara.

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#25 Edited by The_Magister (13493 posts) - - Show Bio

@webinyoureye11 said:

@angeljax: isn't ward like, superhuman?

I don't know much about AoS or Sara tbh. I can make a case for the defenders, but from what I hear about ward and Sara, they could be too much for Matt, and Danny is not as good as Matt, so he would fare even worse

Ward is very much superhuman by real-world standards, but still a peak human master combatant within the narrative of the MCU.

Sara is a fantastic fighter, but not on Oliver's level. I'd confidently wager that Matt could take her if this was h2h. But she has her staff here, which does make a big impact.

Oliver and Sara should take this in a brutal fight.

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#26 Posted by Mutant1230 (6379 posts) - - Show Bio

Canary and Green Arrow.

This is an extremely tough fight though.

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#27 Posted by CramAndman (1665 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax: Probably Canary/ARrow because of their team weapons advantage, though it's going to be pretty close to a draw with DD/Ifist. May and Ward can't compete with the other duos without melee weapons.

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#28 Edited by deactivated-5bb6a6f86dc65 (4972 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, I concur with @cramandman. The Arrow duo get my vote, with the ninjas close behind.

Although if Danny was in zen-mode like he was against Scythe, that'd be enough to take the majority. But he's only shown that ability once, so it's not relevant here.

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#29 Posted by CramAndman (1665 posts) - - Show Bio

@dirtytree333: @angeljax: It's also worth noting that if we're being more realistic, no team would win this. There really would just be one person left standing and it would either be Oliver or DD. In fact, I'd probably go with DD over Oliver, since his melee weapon has better range and can be used more diversely than Ollie's to choke, trap, trip or KO his opponents.

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#30 Edited by killers10333 (3416 posts) - - Show Bio

Based on the op, ollie and sara win

Matt is the only problem for them, because he has his gear, but ultimately he cant beat two on his own, not at this level at least (i could see him pulling a win against ward and may)

If it was purely unarmed h2h, i could see any of the teams winning, but personally id give the edge to grant and may. Ollie or matt are arguably the most skilled here, and can take the most damage soak, but danny is a weak link as is sara (i dont watch legends, but even in her appearances i have seen from clips) compared to someone like grant or may, though not by much. Basically it would likely come down to a 2v1 against matt or ollie and its not one they will win after already being tired

Although as someone mentioned, in all likelyhood as a free for all between teams, there will be one person left standing and it will come down to ollie vs matt, and matt will win due to gear

Without gear, still ollie or matt but its a tossup based on how they got there

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#31 Posted by xtreme1 (4106 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a very close fight and the teams are separated by inches rather than yards.

First Place - Matt and Danny

Second Place - Oliver and Sara

Third Place - May and Ward

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#32 Posted by LlehDevil (7259 posts) - - Show Bio

This is not Grant Ward-taken-over-by-alien right? So if this is Ward before he got offed by Coulson, then Green Arrow and White Canary win.

White Canary beats Melinda and Ollie beats Ward.

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#33 Edited by AngelJax (11596 posts) - - Show Bio

@llehdevil:

This is not Grant Ward-taken-over-by-alien right? So if this is Ward before he got offed by Coulson, then Green Arrow and White Canary win.

Correct, this is normal Grant Ward. Not Hive.

White Canary beats Melinda and Ollie beats Ward.

What about Daredevil and Iron Fist?

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#34 Edited by LlehDevil (7259 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax said:

@llehdevil:

White Canary beats Melinda and Ollie beats Ward.

What about Daredevil and Iron Fist?

Does Matt get his mask and batons? If so, this is tough! I think Team Ollie might lose then, if Oliver get's matched with Daredevil. Lack of arrows is a hindrance for Oliver.

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#35 Posted by tj849 (8569 posts) - - Show Bio

CW

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#36 Edited by Komboing (1134 posts) - - Show Bio

Lmao Oliver and Canary.

Oliver could handle May and Ward by himself.

Only one who gives him any trouble is Matt. Danny just jobs and dies.

Matt would likely beat Sara, barely. Matt could also probably go toe to toe with May and Ward. Oliver would beat them both.

If Danny isn't jobbing, he's almost as skilled as Matt, and they would have a chance against Oliver, and probably win, but Ollie and Sara would beat them both fairly handily.

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#37 Posted by ghost_rider1 (4235 posts) - - Show Bio

Tough fight...this will go down to Matt vs Ollie...and honestly, I don't see Ollie winning. Matt would disarm Ollie if anything. Ollie have good featts but with the skill that Matt showed while fighting the Hand. Matt will always win a majority over him

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#38 Posted by Komboing (1134 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghost_rider1: Oliver KO's people by kicking their legs.

Has fought and beat superhumans, and aliens, as well as the Flash...

What feat does Matt have that comes remotely close to that?

Oliver's room clearing feats are far superior, he takes less hits, KO's people faster, and does it far better.

Oliver would take 10/10 over Matt, and could feasibly hold his own against the Defenders.

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#39 Posted by AngelJax (11596 posts) - - Show Bio
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#40 Posted by ANTHP2000 (25791 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1.

May's better than anyone here, and Ward probably comes next.

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#42 Posted by deactivated-5a4868fccca5c (167 posts) - - Show Bio

Oliver is the best fighter here, and with a bow he can bring down anyone. Sara and May are roughly equals, with Matt not far behind. I would put Ward above Danny, but barely.

For me it would be Oliver/Sara on top, then May/Ward, with Matt/Danny coming in last.

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#43 Posted by the_wspanialy (3910 posts) - - Show Bio

Oliver and Sara, but it's close.

Oliver > Ward while the argument can be made for either Sara or May. Ollie and Sara should have the best teamwork as well.

Matt is good and can give a very good fight to anyone here but without chi Danny is a weak link and drags Matt down.

Personally I think:

  1. Oliver
  2. Sara/May
  3. Ward/Matt
  4. Danny

The gaps beetwen "tiers" are small (except for Danny who is noticably below the rest).

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#44 Posted by Arcus1 (27659 posts) - - Show Bio

People still putting May above Matt? (Course, we’ve also seen Ward be superior to her without improvised weapons, but that’s another matter)

Ollie and Sara probably win, Matt and Danny close second. I could argue for Matt and Danny beating the CW team, but Ollie’s greater quantity of feats is still a lot for Matt’s Defenders showings to overcome

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#45 Posted by ANTHP2000 (25791 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: I don't think Wards above May at all in unarmed combat.

Their final fight was more of a physical contest than a skill one. They were jumping on each other and flipping around through walls and sht. Ward was possibly edging it out (very debatable considering both of them had their occasional advantages and Ward just happened to have one atm) since he's physically superior.

As far as pure h2h and martial arts go, I found her all the more impressive. They showed this much sparring with each other in training and May performed much better against Bobbi than Ward did. Granted May and Bobbi didn't have an exactly straight up fight I guess, but still better than Ward losing to a severely injured Bobbi.

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#46 Posted by Arcus1 (27659 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: I don't think Wards above May at all in unarmed combat.

Their final fight was more of a physical contest than a skill one. They were jumping on each other and flipping around through walls and sht. Ward was possibly edging it out (very debatable considering both of them had their occasional advantages and Ward just happened to have one atm) since he's physically superior.

As far as pure h2h and martial arts go, I found her all the more impressive. They showed this much sparring with each other in training and May performed much better against Bobbi than Ward did. Granted May and Bobbi didn't have an exactly straight up fight I guess, but still better than Ward losing to a severely injured Bobbi.

Their final fight was an actual fight, that's far more important than a sparring match for training. Ward had May on the ground, kicking her as she crawled away, and she only regained the upper hand because of the convenient nail gun. He has a physical advantage and he used it to gain the upper hand, that's completely valid. That's how a fight works. It's the only time we've seen May and Ward fight without any other circumstances (like mind control or sparring) and it clearly showed that Ward can overpower May

Ward didn't lose to Bobbi, they were pretty evenly matched. And yes Bobbi was injured, but Bobbi was also bloodlusted against him while she didn't even want to fight May. May's never beaten Bobbi, and there's generally been indications that Bobbi's stronger

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#47 Posted by ANTHP2000 (25791 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: I agree it's far more important as a showing, I'm just pointing out the difference. Their sparring showed she was more skilled, their fight showed he's physically superior. Yes, he overpowered her. But not all their fights would be like that really. Just like he was trying to overpower him, she tried to overpower him, physical contest. That is one way to fight someone in h2h (which given Mays aggressiveness towards Ward atm made sense).

I strongly disagree here, they weren't evenly matched at all. Bobbi was severely injured and she was winning against him to the point of being able to hold hold her own even after Agent 33 jumped in and surrounded her on an enclosed hall. Of course he eventually got her from behind but Bobbi's superiority over either of them was made clear to me.

Maybe they established or implied Bobbi as better than May post season 2, not there yet. But I'm just saying, the one time they went up against each other, when May thought Bobbi betrayed Coulson, they seemed very evenly matched. Granted like I said, it wasn't that much of a head on fight.

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#48 Posted by Arcus1 (27659 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000:

It’s not like they were just pushing against each other or something, you’re making it sound like they weren’t using technique in the final fight. May’s skill was unable to overcome Ward’s physical advantage. Ward’s not gonna just not take advantage of his superior physicals, those are always going to be a factor in a legit fight

In their S2 fight, Bobbi’s the one who accomplishes her objective. The fact that Bobbi did better than May against Ward also speaks to their standing

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#49 Posted by ANTHP2000 (25791 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: I didn't see they were just punching each other. All I said is that their fight was closer to a Buck vs Widow (CW) fight rather than a Matt vs Elektra (first fight) style contest. If they were fighting in the middle of an empty room in standard mindset or whatever then I'd say the fight could go down differently.

Actually, that fight ended with May pointing a gun at Bobbi. Which is my initial point about May being better than Ward.

Honestly they're pretty even all around I don't know. But I'm not convinced he's better through that encounter.

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#50 Posted by Arcus1 (27659 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000:

Why would it go down differently? Empty room only hurts May more. Ward would still take advantage of superior physicals in standard mindset

And Bobbi escaped, which is what she wanted all along

They’re close, but that fight gave a pretty clear indication of how they compare. Ward’s physically superior, but May’s more tactical (hence how she used the environment more effectively). Put them in a room with nothing for her to use, and Ward’s gonna overwhelm her