Morals off.
Peak condition
The fight in wasteland
Anything goes from here.
This topic is locked from further discussion.
@funkynamu: Think again
@funkynamu: pause, she's powerful but not that powerful xD
@ragegod: that wouldn't be peaked Medaka then? It didn't say EoS adult Medaka when she lost her reality warping powers.
@futureisbest: well, why wouldn't she beat Goku? She can erase her own death, meanwhile, she could just open up all his wounds, having him drop dead, not even needing All Fiction. She could also remove all of Goku power with bookmaker. If you hit her, all the damage reflects back to you. She is not just a fighter, she's a reality warper who can't be killed in conventional means. It's funny, she leaned ultra instinct in her series decade before Goku as well.
So what's Medaka gonna do to counter the fact she'd just get Reiatsu Crushed infinitely in Ichigo's vicinity before being able to take any action ?
@gelato_exotic: you are joking right?
@delein: No? I don't remember Medaka having any feats to resist passive soul destruction...
@gelato_exotic: All fiction counters anything that Ichigo has.
@delein: The only part of All Fiction that's passive is the revival mechanic AFAIK. I'm pretty sure she actually has to make use of it which she won't exactly be able to do if she gets passively soul crushed by Ichigo existing. Not to mention how disadvantaged she is in reaction speed compared to Ichigo.
she moves at sub-light speed while playing an instrument and that is her "base form".
when she is using the proper version of the kurokami phantom she moves way faster than her normal self and of any other forms:
and iirc all fiction allows her to have a sort of time stop and teleportation.
Regarding her dying to soul crush : All fiction can erase cause and effect of anything including soul crush. All fiction allows her to resurrect herself too. She has many ways to deal with Ichigo, turning him into fiction, controlling him , reality warping him etc...
@delein: All Fiction's never shown the ability to be still able to take effect after the complete destruction of both tangible body and soul in the first place pretty sure, but that aside being unquantifiable above Relativistic+ is way slower than EoS Ichigo, and the rest of those abilities are cool but still something she needs to take the action to perform which won't happen if she's passively soul crushed just by Ichigo existing.
Even assuming All Fiction would still be able to take affect and undo anything (which is highly questionable), it'd be a stalemate at best since she'll be stuck in a loop of getting crushed before she can do anything. All Fiction can undo her death but it won't negate a passive ability always active that Ichigo doesn't have to even take an action for (no cause and effect occurring).
You don't need time to perform your attacks when you can just erase time it takes to use it.
Honestly, Medaka just has so many ways to win, and the argument is "maybe" it fails to erase some kind of techniques which doesn't have any basic behind.
Even if Ichigo slashes her, he would just be slashing himself with Encounter.
People got all fiction wrong that it erases the event from happening in the first place, so if the act that destroyed her didn't exist l, she would be okay, not revival. The effect of the attack didn't exist if the event of her being hit by it didn't happen.
@gelato_exotic: as much as I don't like Medaka Box. Medaka has too many ways to win.
Dead scar can reopen any wombs physically or mentally Ichigo has ever suffered.
All fiction to undo the effects of any attack Ichigo has made encounter can redirect any damage is she going to fix on her to another target.
In theory destroying her body and soul to put her down permanently but it's not like Ichigo has shown any proficiency with utilizing Soul Crush.
Due to the fact the all fiction has no Feats of undoing is user being erased from existence.
you're right when you say she doesn't have any resistance to Soul destruction or manipulation that could be a win condition but again Ichigo has never shown any kind of proficiency with soul crushed maybe if this was medeka versus Aizen or ywhach.
I can actually see her losing pretty badly.
@delein: No? I don't remember Medaka having any feats to resist passive soul destruction...
Souls don't even exist in the Medaka Box verse in the same way they do in Bleach, so reiatsu crush is practically worthless. The physical pressure it exerts can simply be pushed away with encounter or reduced to nonexistence with All Fiction.
@bossmountain: Emitting Reiatsu is something any competent Bleach character does though. It's not a matter of proficiency really since it's a passive in verse ability. I could show so many more examples than just Aizen for Reiatsu Crush being a general ability. It's like saying Hit can't use Ki Blasts because he's never shown them even though he's shown to use Ki and that's a basic power of it. Ichigo has Reiryoku and emits Reiatsu and RCing is a passive effect of that universally in Bleach so there's no reason he shouldn't be able to.
Dead Scar is something she still needs to use herself first, right?
And Ichigo has shown to be capable of Reiatsu Crushing before, in fact:
So yeah I really don't see any reason to assume Medaka doesn't get passively pasted along with her soul before she can even think.
@delein: No? I don't remember Medaka having any feats to resist passive soul destruction...
Souls don't even exist in the Medaka Box verse in the same way they do in Bleach, so reiatsu crush is practically worthless. The damage can simply be pushed away with encounter or reduced to nonexistence with All Fiction.
Elaborate on wym by Medaka Box and souls, if you don't mind?
Pretty sure Encounter hasn't ever showcased the ability to interact with direct soul attacks.
When you use an in-verse ability and resistance, you could just say that he could just kill Goku, not like there's anything contradictory to it, and why wouldn't she attacks first if she uses All Fiction to erase "time" for her to use the attack on you?
@poeticwarrior: False equivalence because Goku actually has feats of resisting soul destruction and Ki itself uses soul/spirit energy just like Reiryoku, both of which Medaka lacks, but he's not even here so idk why you deflected to that.
She still needs to actually take the action to erase time, which won't happen because she gets passively destroyed before she can do anything. RC is passive and unless I'm missing something, nothing Medaka has is, aside from All Fictions revival.
@poeticwarrior: False equivalence because Goku actually has feats of resisting soul destruction and Ki itself uses soul/spirit energy just like Reiryoku, both of which Medaka lacks, but he's not even here so idk why you deflected to that.
She still needs to actually take the action to erase time, which won't happen because she gets passively destroyed before she can do anything. RC is passive and unless I'm missing something, nothing Medaka has is, aside from All Fictions revival.
Well, how do you know other fictional characters lack something if it hasn't shown? It is more or less your interpretation of what ki stand for, and every character would get passively destroyed if they don't have some kind of equivalent. It's not about Goku, but it could just be any higher tier characters like Naruto or Silver Surfer that could be destroyed by that pressure because they didn't show that universe concept thus no resistance. That's like saying Fate characters can't be put against physical, non magical characters since they are spirits and shouldn't be hurt by normal physical attacks in the first place, when those concepts are not covered by other fictional works to create a direct counter.
If Ichigo is always passively released it, he would have killed all the humans around him. If that is something he needs to enter and release then Medaka would still have an upperhand to think with All Fiction, activate and erase him or erase the combat time itself to use her attacks.
Between the two, there are a lot more what if than what Medaka can do, what if Ichigo has it and activates it, what if Medaka doesn't have enough resistance, what if Medaka couldn't erase time to attack first, what if All Fiction couldn't erase the event when it could erase time and color itself from the universe, what if she couldn't learn and adapt to it. It seems like a lot of conditions have to work right for Medaka to even fall against something that only exists in-verse.
Well, how do you know other fictional characters lack something if it hasn't shown? It is more or less your interpretation of what ki stand for, and every character would get passively destroyed if they don't have some kind of equivalent.
Um no lol any character with feats of resisting soul destruction would no sell Reiatsu Crush.
It's not about Goku, but it could just be any high tier characters that could be destroyed by that pressure because they didn't show that universe concept thus no resistance.
Unless you're gonna get into higher dimensional being stuff and whatnot, yes that's exactly the case. Being strong doesn't give you resistance to soul hax.
That's like saying Fate characters can't be put against physical, non magical characters since they are spirits and shouldn't be hurt by normal physical attacks in the first place.
What's wrong with that? You could do verse equalization or whatever but by default that's how it is.
If Ichigo is always passively released it, he would have killed all the humans around him. If that is something he needs to enter and release then Medaka would still have an upperhand to think with All Fiction, activate and erase him.
It's either due to the resistance of the humans (like what Aizen noted about Ichigo's classmates), or the fact that they go out of their way to suppress it. By default it is passive.
Between the two, there are a lot more what if than what Medaka can do, what if Ichigo has it and activates it, what if Medaka doesn't have enough resistance, what if Medaka couldn't erase time to attack first, what if All Fiction couldn't erase the event when it could erase time and color itself from the universe, what if she couldn't learn and adapt to it. It seems like a lot of conditions have to work right for Medaka to even fall against it.
There's no proof Medaka can resist the slightest magnitude of soul destruction, and a passive ability>something she needs to actively react to and use.
This seems like a Stalemate
Why would it be a stalemate when she could erase him out of existence, meanwhile, she could resurrect if she get killed somehow?
This seems like a Stalemate
Why would it be a stalemate when she could erase him out of existence, meanwhile, she could resurrect if she get killed somehow?
Because chigo has passives which Medaka can't counter with her speed and her only passive ability is her Resurrection via All Fiction which doesn't have feats for undoing soul destruction, in other words this could be in fact a stomp in Ichigo favor
@omega7373663: that passive needs to be activated. Otherwise, some 90 years old granny would get killed just by him passing by and every city he visits would face thousands of people's death. And it hasn't been shown to kill anyone but mooks. They failed to kill so many people, intentional or unintentional, not exactly seen reliable or consistent, and now you're applying it from some in verse to other verse with no concept of that. Suddenly, he can kill silver surfer, Alien X, and superman before the fight starts. It doesn't work that way. That's a nlf. Try making a thread with that and see how many stomp posts against Bleach you get if it's not locked.
I don't think it's undoing soul destruction as much as preventing the event from happening. He wouldn't destroy her soul (not that he could when he fail to do that to even random mooks) if the event didn't happen.
Plus, it has been shown to fail against normal human beings with power when used intentionally, you're now using an ability Ichigo never used on someone who is boss level?
Lmao. All fiction is a skill that erases both the cause and effect of something from reality, and encounter can push away the concept of death altogether.
So even if Medaka were hit with an attack that instantly kills her that death will merely be pushed away to someone or thing else. Medaka solos Bleach.
Not to mention Medaka could copy Ichigo’s abilities.
@thewatcherking: Yhwach stomps her easy.
But Ichigo sure a heck stands no chance in hell
@bossmountain: and how’s that?
@thewatcherking: Almighty allows him to foresee and alter the future and make himself immune to his opponent's hacks that he forsees.
Whatever ability he forsees he understands and once he understands it cannot affect him.
He could forsee all of her skills and make himself immune.
She basically can't use her skills against them Nor is she's physically capable of hurting him.
And before you ask yes the almighty has made him immune to conceptual hacks before.
Plus he can rewrite the future to bring himself back to life not that she's physically capable of killing him anyway.
A battle between the two will just result in mustache man killing her countless a time until her will to continue fighting it breaks
Anyone claiming "Ichigo would beat Medaka because he beat Yhwach" clearly misunderstood not only the ending of Bleach but Yhwach's intentions and his abilities.
The Almighty essentially grants Yhwach Omniscience at the cost of his sanity(Aside from his battle with Ichigo we see this weakness in Jugram as well after they had swapped powers as a failsafe to protect Yhwach while he slept. Because of the weakness, this would technically make him nigh-omniscient but I digress)
Yhwach even went on to state that he could utilise ANY ability that he knows of, by proxy, making him nigh-omnipotent as well.
I'm mentioning this to clarify his reason for losing. With all that power he has at his disposal, realistically speaking, there was no way for Ichigo and the gang to take him down. He "lost" because of his insanity.
Of course, using the word "lost" very loosely here as his final speech to Ichigo seems to indicate that he let them win. This is supported by the fact that after his final bout with Ichigo, remnants of his former self are sighted all around Soul Society and for the next ten years or so, the soul reapers are tasked with the mission of finding them erasing them from existence.
...This happens to all but one of Yhwach's remnants which happened to find it's way into Ichigo's home and merging with his son Kazui, essentially becoming zanpaktou and turning him into a soul reaper(Much like how Yhwach was Ichigo's zanpaktou all along)
@bossmountain: this isn’t he thread for this but she can never be killed by him with All fiction and Encounter, and all fiction itself is beyond conceptual and unless he has feats of getting around universal reality erasure than he gets erased easily. Not to mention Medaka copied a portion of Ajimu broken abilities
this isn’t he thread for this but she can never be killed by him with All fiction and Encounter,
She has before against iihiko. especially since Yhwach can negate those abilities.
"and all fiction itself is beyond conceptual"
HA HARDLY!! the all fiction best conceptual feats f is erasing color(which is a lesser concept) and seconds from a single action (also a lesser concept).
the all fiction has only ever been shown erasing lesser concepts( concepts that aren't universal or a essential in governing reality) (Color is a lesser concept not all creature see color the same some can't see it at all so it's not a universal concept same thing with seconds same thing with memories)
it is hardly beyond conceptual when it's best feats are bare basic manipulation of a few lesser concepts.
and unless he has feats of getting around universal reality erasure than he gets erased easily. Not to mention Medaka copied a portion of Ajimu broken abilities
you do know that the soul King has universal to low multiverse reality warping statements and yhwach is as strong as him?
@bossmountain: We’re not going to argue this but I’ll say conception all manipulation is a subset of reality warping, it’s not better than reality warping. And erasing time is conceptual anyway, as are many of the feats it shown.
Iihiko isn’t Yhwach either.
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