MCU/CW Black Widow and Melinda May vs Iron fist and White Canary

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deactivated-5cc073360931e

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  • Round 1 : Strictly h2h combat (Both teams are morals off)
  • Round 2 : Standard gear for all and Powers allowed

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anthp2000

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#2 anthp2000  Moderator

Team 2, Danny is a rather weak link, and Sara isn't as good as the Agents either, at least not w/gear.

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TheSuperor

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#3  Edited By TheSuperor

Iron Fist and White Canary handily for both rounds. Danny and Sara are both superior to either of the agents.

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deactivated-5ed476aa4e89a

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  1. Team Ninjas, both are superior to either of the agents.
  2. Team Ninjas, Danny is the MVP of this one.
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Paytience

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May solos.

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SupremeGeneration

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R1: Agents

R2: Ninjas

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deactivated-5cadf799d578c

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  1. Team 1 handily - I can’t picture a situation where Natasha could contend with either h2h, May’s marginally better than Danny but not Sara
  2. May doesn't carry anything as standard gear, she's the weak link this round

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TheSuperor

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Alavanka

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Agents win round 1.

Danny solos round 2. No SHIELD agent is dodging gunfire from a guy that can snipe bullets mid-air.

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The_Justiciar

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#10  Edited By The_Justiciar
  1. Nat's a bit of a weak link in terms of sheer feats, so I'd back Danny/Sara
  2. Agents for sure, this is their bread and butter + they're outstanding marksmen
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The_Justiciar

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TheSuperor

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SuperVision123

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  1. Nat's a bit of a weak link in terms of sheer feats, so I'd back Danny/Sara
  2. Agents for sure, this is their bread and butter + they're outstanding marksmen

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TheSuperor

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@alavanka said:

Agents win round 1.

Danny solos round 2. No SHIELD agent is dodging gunfire from a guy that can snipe bullets mid-air.

What are you referring to?

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Paytience

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#15  Edited By Paytience
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Paytience

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@alavanka: Bobbi morse "sniped" bullets by throwing her batons, so w/e.

If you think Danny is a better gunmen then the agents are, you're wrong. Doesn't matter whether or not it's chi. He isn't as good at utilizing firepower as they are at combating it. Danny doesn't play in this tier, period.

@thesuperor: Well, I mean, Widow solos too, so...

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deactivated-5cadf799d578c

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@paytience: Bobbi threw her batons at the guns before Giyera pulled the trigger on them.

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Paytience

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#18  Edited By Paytience

@hispanicspidey: Bobbi was under steady fire from four guns and there was no way to physically predict the trigger pull since two of the guns were telekinetically controlled. Try again.

Here's the vid and not the gif so that there is no confusion. She and Hunter were under suppressive fire the entire time:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n0M2Vzpb_zY

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TheSuperor

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@thesuperor: Well, I mean, Widow solos too, so...

Sara is the only one that even has a remote chance to solo and that isn't happening. Nat is by far the weakest opponent here.

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Alavanka

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#20  Edited By Alavanka

@paytience: Bobbi threw her batons at the guns that were being controlled telekinetically. If the bullets that hit the batons were fired from that gun after she threw the batons, then it means that Bobbi wasn't trying to snipe the bullets. The batons were just in the line of fire as the guns discharged. Danny took his shots after his opponent pulled the trigger first. He had to visually track the trajectory of the bullet after it was fired, and then place shots from each of his pistols to meet it. Danny's case is undeniably bullet timing. I mean, my memory isn't exactly great and I've missed quite a few episodes of AOS. But do you think that if Bobbi used guns, she would be able to shoot individual bullets out of the air after they have been fired? If you do, I'll take your word for it. That would be the level of gunmanship Widow and May would need to have to match Danny in a gunfight. Otherwise, he will just shoot down their bullets/taser prongs. I agree that the agents are probably tactically superior to Danny, but Danny's superpowers lets him treat a gun fight like a game of whack-a-mole.

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TheSuperor

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@alavanka: I kinda forgot that happened but guns shouldn't be his standard gear either way I assume.

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Alavanka

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#22  Edited By Alavanka

@thesuperor We'll never know, because this came at the last scene of season 2 and the show is cancelled.

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Paytience

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@thesuperor: Sara stands zero chance of besting anyone besides Danny who is kinda pathetic.

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RBT

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Sara could potentially solo. Danny would beat either. Stomp in favor of team 2.

Danny solos R2.

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EmmaFrostXmen

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Round 1- Team 2, Widow And May are better fighters than anyone on team 1

Round 2- Widow Solos due to widow bites that were hurting Black Panther And 1 shorting regular humans effortlessly

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RBT

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Round 1- Team 2, Widow And May are better fighters than anyone on team 1

Round 2- Widow Solos due to widow bites that were hurting Black Panther And 1 shorting regular humans effortlessly

And how is Nat going to land those bites on an arrow timer and a bullet timer? How is she dealing with shurikens and chi strikes?

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TheSuperor

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@thesuperor: Sara stands zero chance of besting anyone besides Danny who is kinda pathetic.

I assume you don't watch Legends of Tomorrow, otherwise you wouldn't make such a stupid claim. I will therefore shine some light on Sara's abilities as a combatant.

First of all, Sara has superior durability to either of the agents by a decent margin. She has taken hits from Vixen, Pilgrim, Hawkgirl, Dominators and a Minotaur that could damage Steel with his hits. Neither May nor Nat can regularly tank hits from heavy hitters like Sara has done. May is definitely the closest as far as durability is concerned but she is not on the same level.

Second of all Sara has way superior speed to either of the agents as she is an arrow timer and consistently out speeds other arrow timers and even bullet timers such as Savage and the Minotaur. Here is the speed of the minotaru, and Sara danced around his hits.

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Sara is also stronger than both of the agents. Sara has matched May's striking feats in her fights against Hawkgirl and Damien Darhk where she launches them through the air with kicks. Sara is also strong enough to break someones neck with a punch and can tear through steel chains, that is way beyond the capabilities of either of the agents. She is also regularly one shotting people in heavy armor and is constantly rag dolling people with her punches like this:

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May has some good feats against superhuman opponents but nothing Sara hasn't replicated against Atom, Dominators or various types of ridiculous monsters or aliens.

Sara's feats against fodder are also massively superior. She has on numerous occasions taken on dozens of combatant, such as the next gif.

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That is just one of a ton of feats of the same caliber. One of her other feats against random fodder is taking out 6 of them in about 5 seconds, where she basically one shots all of them.

She has gone up against higher tier fodder than either of the agents have, in Samurais, ninjas, Space pirates, zombies and heavily armored medieval and Roman soldiers.

Her feats against established opposition is also massively superior. May has fought Ward which is a good feat and she has fought Daisy which is decent, Nat on the other hand has only really fought Clint. Sara has defeated and is consistently depicted as superior to high tier combatants such as Malcolm Merlyn, Damien Darhk, Vixen, Rory and Ava Sharpe. Only character that is consistently depicted as Sara's superior is Oliver Queen, who most have realized by now, would beat all of the agents handily.

There is no shame in losing to Sara Lance. She is in a show that hardly takes itself serious anymore, which allows for some completely ridiculous and unrealistic feats. May and Nat belong to media which treats feats more seriously and takes itself more serious and doesn't allow for all the ridiculous shit Legends can pull off.

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Paytience

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#28  Edited By Paytience

@thesuperor: I know her feats...she's pathetic. And Oliver Queen is the sloppiest main fighter in any series. Period.

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TheSuperor

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@thesuperor: I know her feats...she's pathetic. And Oliver Queen is the sloppiest main fighter in any series. Period.

You still have an inability to back up your claims?

She has better than feats than both of the agents, doesn't matter if you call her pathetic when feats say otherwise.

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Paytience

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#30  Edited By Paytience

@thesuperor: I've backed up the claims in multiple threads and am pretty tired of you Arrow wankers ignoring the amount of times I've proved you wrong.

You guys have literally deleted threads and changed links to try and avoid those points...so look into other threads. Such as the one we evaluate Malcolm and Sara vs Punisher an dit' sshown flat out with vids and tine stamps that Frank was faster...but whatever.

Or the breakdowns of the Nyssa vs Ollie an Ollie vs several others here I broke down Ollie's shitty ass grappling compared to Ward and Daisy. Or the ones where we broke down Ollie's draw speeds to half a second based on the speed of a 40mm grenade.

Or the thread where the Mirakuru punching through the container was shown as not impressive.

Or where we broke down Ward vs 7 Agents compared to Ollie vs 6 mercs.

The fact of the matter is, I've proven you all wrong and cats like yourself @rbt and @arcus flat out ignore those points expressly because they prove you wrong.

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RBT

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@paytience: You tell them Paytience. Tell them how you can beat CW Oliver and Matt in a fight.

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TheSuperor

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@paytience: What you have done is argue real life practical implementation of combat maneuvers in fictional fights. What you will have to realize is that it doesn't matter if a move is performed perfect according to real life techniques, cause we are arguing fictional characters. Time to put away the debate on choreo cuz you are the only all knowing expert on this site, and rather look at the in-universe feats they are performing.

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Paytience

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#33  Edited By Paytience

@rbt: You tell them rbt. Tell them how you wank on a vs site.

p.s. I would.

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RBT

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@paytience: Of course you would. This claim of yours that you think you can beat CW Oliver and MCU Matt and that you can choke out MCU Cap is the reason why I don't think you wank AoS. You are just flat out crazy.

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TheSuperor

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@paytience:

p.s. I would.

I thought to my self that they had to be joking. When I heard how people talked about how you thought you'd beat Oliver in a fight. They had to be joking. Turns out they weren't.

You should stop, you are embarrassing yourself my dude.

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Paytience

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#36  Edited By Paytience

@thesuperor: lol..."heard people talk"?

????.

You have no idea how hilarious I find that statement.

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TheSuperor

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Paytience

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#38  Edited By Paytience

@rbt: On the contrary. I think anybody who can get the choke properly applied could choke out MCU Cap. That holds true for all characters up to a pretty high superhuman level. First.

___

Second, I would absolutely clinch up with Ollie and once I did I would absolutely assert the dominance of real world fighting...a place where pis does not exist to save him. Deal with it bubu. ?

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RBT

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@paytience: I mean, it makes sense that a person who thinks they can beat MCU Cap with their bare hands would think May doesn't get stomped by Sara.

Always nice conversing with you.

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Paytience

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#40  Edited By Paytience

@rbt: It makes sense that a person who doesn't know the difference between a sleeper and a mata leao wouldn't know what they're talkkng about...so do you I guess.

Like I said, you're entitled to your wrong opinion.

___

P.S. May solos. Effortlessly.

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RBT

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@paytience: Makes sense. I concede. You can indeed beat Cap, Matt and Oliver. It's insane how anyone would even think otherwise. My bad.

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Paytience

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#42  Edited By Paytience

@rbt: Oh, it's generally understood I would amongst you and your little "group or w/e." Apparently you "talk".

??

Still classic laughs btw.

___

OT...May still solo's. ?

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SupremeGeneration

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...

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Arcus1

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@paytience:you still gonna try to argue that movie Wonder Woman isn't a bullet timer?

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Paytience

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@arcus1: Oh look...the cutest little wort on my dick.

---

Are you gonna return to that thread and try and argue the feats in question? Because they've been proven wrong there.

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TheSuperor

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@paytience:

Oh, it's generally undertood I would amongst you and your little "group or w/e." Apparently you "talk".

The people I'm referring to who I heard "talking", are people who generally support MCU, and not the ones you would call the Arrow wankers.

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Arcus1

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OT: ninjas round 1 in a solid matchup, but I have Sara and a properly focused Danny as being slightly above May/Widow level

Round 2, could see it going either way depending on how things play out. Ninjas are gonna be better up close, but the agents are better at range

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RBT

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@arcus1: May doesn't use guns usually and goes for cqc. And Danny's chi strike to the ground is pretty much his go to move. Which would ragdoll anyone in proximity.

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Arcus1

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Are you gonna return to that thread and try and argue the feats in question? Because they've been proven wrong there.

Insults, very mature

And you're the one who never replied to me posting one clear example of her bullet timing, would you like more? Anyone with even a passing familiarity with the movie would know that she's constantly bullet timing, and anyone without a significant bias would at least acknowledge that

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The_Justiciar

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@paytience: Choreography and execution of techniques are certainly important (they add a lot of credibility to fight scenes), but there are definitely other factors too IMO. I've been a proponent of using choreographed skill as a measure of ability for a long time, but there's a lot of additional stuff to consider.

@arcus1 said:

ninjas round 1 in a solid matchup, but I have Sara and a properly focused Danny as being slightly above May/Widow level

I'd say Nat has the logic behind her to compete, that logic being her implied parity with May and the other elite AoS crew. Purely feats wise though, there's a gap that I don't think she can make up due to how many showings the other three have accrued over multiple seasons of combat.