MCU: Wanda & Vision vs. Thor - All Bloodlusted

And yet Thor never dented the sword or his armour :)

Wanda very clearly broke it, and he never used it again except to charge at Carol (which doesn't involve actually using it) and then throwing it at the van. With his strength, he could have thrown a rock at the van and had a similar effect. So tossing a broken weapon doesn't mean it was still functional as a sword.

@scipio123 said:

@geekryan:

And I don't know what "gigantic land structures" you are referring to.

Try watching some of the other MCU movies besides EG. You'll be amazed by what you'll find!

I've seen every MCU movie, more than once. I regularly debate with MCU characters.

Destroying an already unstable mass of land isn't as impressive as what Wanda has done with her TK.

@scipio123: I never said it was in half ya weirdo get tae.

@xzone said:

@scipio123:

1. Most of that damage was Thor charging through it, not the lighting itself.

2. Not impressive in the slightest.

3. Although the lightning arcs covered a large area, the damage itself was limited to the balcony and Hela survived this with no visible damage.

4. This is his most impressive lightning feat, but it involved conducting the lightning off the entire metal building to do.

@geekryan: the power of Thor's lightning don't matter much, since Wanda can't tank any of it and can't block them all.

She couldn't tank a full blast, no. But why couldn't she block it? She should be able to match it with her TK.

@geekryan: "She couldn't tank a full blast, no. But why couldn't she block it? She should be able to match it with her TK."

She can if she has a shield up before the strike, but she is not fast enough to react to lightning.

Ods are she'll get hit eventually, and unlike Thor that can come back from a tough hit, Wanda will stay down.

1, 2. Outright killing Thanos wouldn't even be in the same tier as hurting him pretty badly. Suspension and pain aren't the same things as killing him so we didn't see Wanda killing Thanos on-screen. You can interpret it that way if you want, but it's not definitive. Again, that isn't to underestimate how powerful her TK was that it made Thanos call down an airstrike.

3. I was explaining why Wanda's TK is not as powerful as you think.

4. Thanos might've been wounded, but he definitely wasn't weaker after Wanda did her thing.

5. I'm aware he didn't, but it's still a notable feat nonetheless. It looks like someone already provided the other feat I was referring to.

Destroying an already unstable mass of land isn't as impressive as what Wanda has done with her TK.

I didn't know this actually, but it seems like it's still a better destructive feat than anything Wanda has pulled off. Perhaps, you can provide a counter.

And yet Thor never dented the sword or his armour :)

Thor never got the opportunity to. You really think if Thor got a proper hit in with Stormbreaker that he wouldn't pierce Thanos' armor despite the fact that Thor's throw with Stormbreaker was enough to overpower a blast from a fully powered Infinity Gauntlet, and that Thor casually pierces Thanos' actual body.

She has reacted to automatic gunfire after it was fired, she has reacted to an explosion, and Thor's lightning is rarely ever instantly charged and fired. So yes, she could likely react to a ranged lightning attack.

If Wanda is bloodlusted, Thor won't be easily recovering from whatever she attacks him with.

1/2. Even if you don't take the on-screen feat as proof that Thanos was being killed, we have a statement to back it up. What do you have that says otherwise?

3. I'm well aware of how strong Wanda's TK is. Your attempts at downplaying it do nothing to change my mind.

4. It's pretty obvious he was hurt from Wanda's attack. Being hurt tends to reduce your effectiveness in combat.

5. It can't be used as a stand-alone feat because it involved Iron Man AND Ultron's machine.

6. Briefly holding up an airport control tower, lifting a Leviathan, holding back Thanos (using the Space Stone) with half her power while using the other half to destroy the Mind Stone and kill the love of her life, owning Thanos in a fight.

7. Stormbreaker was specifically designed to beat the Infinity Gauntlet. We saw that when Thanos unleashed a full gauntlet blast against the incoming Stormbreaker and it didn't work. That's the only reason why Stormbreaker was able to pierce him. Thanos expected his blast to stop it and didn't anticipate that it wouldn't work. Even then, it only pierced him a couple of inches until Thor pushed it in more. And this was Thanos WITHOUT his EG armour btw.

Thanos blocked a strike from Stormbreaker with his sword (which did nothing to the sword btw) and then proceeded to disarm Thor, beat him up, catch Stormbreaker, and would have killed Thor if Cap didn't intervene.

Cap's shield was destroyed by Thanos's sword. Thor's charge with Stormbreaker did nothing to Thanos' sword. Wanda broke a piece off Thanos' sword. I think you can put together that scaling.

@geekryan: what are your arguments?? TK. Tbor even if Wanda caught him in that crushing hold would literally one shot her glass cannon self with lightning. SHE CANT hold him like Thanos AOE stomps Wanda...Thor also has TK btw as shown in Ragnarok bi frost brige... Wanda can't do anything to put him down before Bloodlusted Thor one shots her.

And no Wanda isn't dodging the lightning while trying to hold him and a throwing weapon at the same time

Your profile picture is literally MCU Thor, so of course you are biased, so I won't bother arguing with you lol.

And that even isn't what we were discussing, so read before you interject in something you don't know about.

Wanda and Vision would still logically take the majority at the very least.

Let me just address a few quick things before I forget.

The statement was about Wanda being enough to defeat Thanos, right? Not about whether Wanda was killing Thanos with her attack in Endgame.

But Thanos wasn't any less effective.

That's all impressive, but how exactly are any of those better destructive feats than what Thor has done with his lightning. We don't know durable the Mind Stone was, to begin with.

This is unsupported speculation though. Stormbreaker was specifically designed to help stop Thanos, but there is no evidence that it is magically bypassing Thanos' durability and the Infinity Stones attack. As far as we know Thor with it is simply overpowering Thanos. Thanos may not have expected Thor's attack to be so effective, but that doesn't mean his blast was somehow not at it's best. As far as we know, Thanos saw a threat and used a fully powered IG to try and stop it.

If you look carefully Stormbreaker's handle hits Thanos' sword not the actual edge of the axe. Thanos blocks it at the handle because it's an axe with very little reach.

@geekryan:

And yet Thor never dented the sword or his armour :)

Maybe that had something to do with Thor never landing a clean hit on Thanos?

And as Xzone has pointed out, Cap was able to damage Thanos' helmet with a few strikes from Mjolnir. So unless Cap>>>>Thor now, it's reasonable to assume that Thor would be able to do the same.

Wanda very clearly broke it, and he never used it again except to charge at Carol (which doesn't involve actually using it)

The only reason he didn't use it against Carol was because he was prevented by the A-Force blast. Otherwise, he would have engaged her with it. The fact that Thanos regarded the weapon as being in good enough condition to fight the woman who just annihilated his flagship shows that it was still usable.

and then throwing it at the van. With his strength, he could have thrown a rock at the van and had a similar effect. So tossing a broken weapon doesn't mean it was still functional as a sword.

Again, throwing the sword was the result of him being pushed back by A-Force. It was a last resort. There was no time for him to drop his sword and pick up and throw a random rock that had no guarantee of totally destroying the Quantum Tunnel. The sword was already in his hand and so it made sense for him to throw it instead of something else, given that this was the last hope for him. If Carol had reached the tunnel, he would have lost the stones forever. He only had seconds to act, so he threw what was already in his hand.

How this proves that the sword was no longer usable is beyond me.

Wanda and Vision stomp any other answer is laughable and it was shown Endgame Thor hasn’t used lightning in combat

@geekryan:

Destroying an already unstable mass of land isn't as impressive as what Wanda has done with her TK.

If that land was so unstable, then why did the Frost Giants build their King's Palace right on top of it?

That giant monster, which would easily weight several tons, was also able to run and jump around on that surface without doing any damage to it.

We also see giant building structures collapse. But I guess those are unstable too, right?

And finally, the film's script literally states that it was the shockwave of Thor's attack that caused the ground to collapse:

"But the force of the blast also cracks the ice below, the shockwave continuing to spread outwards."

So, the ice didn't fall on its own. Thor destroyed it. Name one destructive feat from Wanda that surpasses that.

3. Although the lightning arcs covered a large area, the damage itself was limited to the balcony and Hela survived this with no visible damage.

4. This is his most impressive lightning feat, but it involved conducting the lightning off the entire metal building to do.

It's kinda funny, given that Thor explicitly states in Ragnarok that the lightning blast he hit Hela with was the most powerful one he had ever summoned. And the fact that it wasn't able to kill Hela, a being who required a literal country-busting attack to kill, is hardly a low-showing. It clearly temporarily KO'd Hela, given that she was off-screen for several minutes. That's damn impressive.

Not to mention that it's irrelevant here. Hela is orders of magnitude more durable than Wanda.

There's also this:

That same bridge previously required 10 strikes from Mjolnir to destroy. It also tanked having Dark Elf ships that are capable of plowing through dozens of stone pillars with taking any damage crash into it at high speed.

Oh, and it off-screened Hela for over a minute.

@emmafrostxmen:

Because Endgame is the only movie that counts now. Let's just totally forget all the other times Thor has used lightning in combat, right? Like against the Frost Giants, Iron Man, the Chitauri, Malekith, Hulk, Hela and yes, Thanos in IW?

Endgame is the only movie that counts as canon now.

@scipio123: I guess you’re trolling

The OP said Endgame versions of Thor. He didn’t use lightning in combat during endgame thus it’s no longer in character and Wanda Solo stomps in a mismatch

@emmafrostxmen:

But you do accept that Thor has used lightning in combat in other movies, yes?

@scipio123: yes I’m not ignorant like everyone else on the site lol

I know he has, but how he fights in endgame it is no longer in character to use lightning cloak

I think Thor didn't use lighting cloak in EG because Thanos was just too durable for that. Same for Hela as Thor was mostly used lighting cloak in Ragnarok to wreck fodder and mostly used lighting-charged sword afainst her (though lighting was more helpful there due to it desintegrating Hela's blades).

Most likely he would fight differently against glass cannon like Scarlet Witch and his chances aren't that bad tbh, going by feats (like 50/50). In-universe Scarlet Witch would be definitely written to win tho.

@xzone: Because Thanos tanked Captain Marvel's hits with ease and she flew through Sanctuary like nothing. Destroying Sanctuary >> destroying Outrider ships which is lighting cloak's best feat.

And he used it to desintegrate Hela's blades once and mainly to charge the sword. Hela is comparable to Thanos durability-wise (maybe a bit better, judging by how she took Bifrost lighting), not counting regen. Lighting cloak wasn't hurting her at all (I mean, it didn't do any damage she needed to regenerate from).

@nn5: Also, Thor's cloak in IW was far superior to his cloak in Ragnarok

Also, was not once, but many times he used his cloak

@finalkingthanos:

Do you really believe Wanda would crush Thor before Thor can fire one lightning bolt? If your answer is no, then they are not winning the majority. Then bear in mind he has two weapons that needs one hit to severely wound or kill any of them. The only way Thor loses is if he tries to beat them to death with his fist only.

@xzone: He roughly knows how strong & durable Thanos is. He knows lighting cloak isn't good weapon against such opponents (Hela).

What the GIF with Cap calling lighting from the sky means in context of cloak?

He kept it active because it was more useful as it helped him to protect against Hela's blades (at least once). It doesn't change his main offensive weapon was his lighting-charged sword and in EG he had two such weapons, made from enchanted Uru. Thanos wasn't throwing at him anything lighting cloak would help against.

@johndeyvido: I really believe 2v1 they have more ways of winning this than Thor does, the factor of bloodlust is for all parties involved and I tend to favour a team with just as much hax and varied abilities as Thor does coming out the Victor's, especially when we have seen two of them bloodlust on screen more or less.

@finalkingthanos:

I believe I gave you their best chance since none of them have the physical strength to ko or outright beat him to death. Vision beam doesn't have the feats of hurting people on Thor's level. The only other way would be sth he hasn't done before which is to phase Thor's organs out. Wanda's only shot is to give Thor the Thanos treatment which she won't pull off before Thor's lightning or thrown weapons ko her or kill her.

Maybe you can be kind enough to list other ways they can win aside the ways I've come up with.

@xzone: Forget these two situations but they only prove what I said - every time he defends himself against her blades. Something that wasn't useful against Thanos.

Plus attacking Hela with sword.

IW cloak wasn't doing much damage to Outriders for example (like they weren't exploding after getting hit with lighting-charged Stormbreaker, sometimes cut in-half but that's due to blade), unlike the ships. Either it's Russos style of ignoring environmental damage quite often or Thor just e.g. charged Stormbreaker with lighting from the sky before going after the ships and used the stored energy to blow the ships (as lighting cloak alone didn't show that kind of power except this one moment). We don't know what happened and even if it was just his own internal power in form lighting cloak, Thanos can withstand that with ease (tanking Captain Marvel's hits again).

@xzone: Thor had hammers in EG to extend his reach. At the same time lighting cloak wouldn't protect him from getting cut in half by Thanos' sword while Stormbreaker could parry it.

Anyways, it's a direct hit from SB. Lighting cloak alone wasn't doing much.

No reason to belive that Cap only had Phase 1 Thor's powers. Either he got the power Thor had at the moment (so in EG) or post-Ragnarok Thor isn't much stronger than before Ragnarok (he doesn't have feats showing he has stronger lighting, it's just the intent that Thor got somwehat stronger by the end of Ragnarok but nobody can tell to what extent). Seeing that "Prime" IW Thor's lighting did comparable to Cap's lighting against Thanos either of these can be true.

@xzone: Why? He got Mjolnir from a phase 1 level Thor

proof the Russo’s consider different phases = different power levels?

proof that The Dark World took place in phase 1?

@xzone: We saw lighting from Stormbreaker doing nothing to Thanos when hitting his armor (in the scene where Thor and Cap try to overpower him).

It's not a feat for lighting and it's all that matters here. The handle is a part of SB though, it's not made of Uru so agree it isn't even nearly as durable as blade (if that's what you mean).

Cap got Mjolnir from Phase 2 Thor yet he used it in 2023, when Thor had all powers awalened post-Ragnarok. We'll never know how the enchantment worked in such circumstances. IW Thor's lighting and Cap's lighting did relatively comparable against Thanos. Either there's no gap or there's a dmall one.

Biggest lighting bolt in history seems to be one-time thing that happened when Thor awakened his powers. Thor never used it later in fight against Hela or in IW against Thanos, or in EG (and it would be extremely useful considering it apparently knocked out Hela). I'm not saying he didn't get the boost but he's not able to throw such biggest lighting bolts consistently.

Do people not remember Wanda's shield being blown away by Ultron bots, Proxima's spear and Thanos' ship? Are you telling me Thor's lightning is < that?

Thor is one-shotting both of them. He is a bad matchup for them, especially Vision.

@nn5: Phase 1 and Phase 2 is what I meant

@xzone: Based on? Either Thor was using his own lighting to charge Stormbreaker (which would be the same as lighting cloak) or he charged it with lighting from the sky before attacking Thanos (like he did in first fight) in which case it would be likely better than cloak alone.

The GIF it's unclear so I went with what you said (the handle). We got misunderstood perhaps. Anyways cutting one Outrider in half is way below blowing ships. Blowing ships is way below Thanos' durability (as proven by fight with Carol)

And we don't know how enchantment works. There's no way to tell. Either of these options can be true, and either means Cap wasn't weaker (or not by much) thna post-Ragnarok Thor.

If Thor could KO Thanos with lighting, why wouldn't he (and not risk an attack with Infinity Stones)? If Thor could KO Hela again (like he apparently did with biggest lighting bolt) and stab her with lighting-charged sword, why wouldn't he (instead of waking up Surtur and destroying Asgard)? And from what you say it seems a biggest lighting blast in history would be useful only in Endgame.

@nn5: Let me quickly try to clarify what you're arguing? Cause I think Thor loses this fight

I think Thor was weaker in EG for many reasons, one of them being as you stated, lightning strikes would have been useful

@xzone: I think he has a chance here and would have used against Scarlet Witch cause she's a glass cannon (unlike Thanos). Not saying he wins but techically 1v1 with Wanda might go either way.

Thor used lighting in EG to charge his weapons and amp Iron Man repulsors. He wasn't calling big lighting blasts less often than in his other fights. Another buggest lighting bolt in history would be useful but not only in EG - Ragnarok later on & IW as well if he could have repeated it one more time. It's not a proof he was weaker. And he had lighting cloak in EG - after hammers exchange with Cap, Thor flies away with cloak around him.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/mcu-cav-wanda-and-vision-geekryan-vs-thor-kryptoni-2064476/

@nn5: So you're arguing Thor in EG was prime Thor?

@xzone: Yes, and directors confirmed so. IMO he isn't much stronger though, just IW Thor but with one more hammer.

Can the team block or tank a lightning charged strike? Any charged sb strike would've been a critical hit even to Thanos. Can shields even hold up against such power?

@nn5: I plan to make a thread later explaining why IW Thor is stronger

@rebake:

Thor doesn't use lightning in character.

He fights like an idiot and gets bodied in CQC.

@xzone: I'm looking forward to it. To convince me you're have to explain why giant lighting blast was unnecessary in Bifrost fight and in Wakanda, though.

@nn5: Well, he used one on the bifrost

Thor simply couldn't kill Hela with lightning or those swords

And in wakanda when should he have used that lightning strike?