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#51 Posted by APEX_pretador (21255 posts) - - Show Bio
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#52 Posted by APEX_pretador (21255 posts) - - Show Bio
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#53 Posted by webinyoureye11 (5784 posts) - - Show Bio

If your team had any chance of survival here, it would be begging for mercy like this woman.
If your team had any chance of survival here, it would be begging for mercy like this woman.

Superman, the "Man of Steel"

For those who haven't seen Man of Steel, Batman v Superman or Justice league, here is a compilation of all his fight moves and flights from those movies

Loading Video...

In it you will see Superman's incredible speed, strength and durability that will all prove far too much for the opposing team to handle. I'm guessing anthp missed the part that said "high tier" tournament, judging by the team they assembled.

Perks

The only relevant perk I want to bring attention to would be the spider sense.

Spider sense can warn the user of threats that are about to happen
Spider sense can warn the user of threats that are about to happen
Spider sense can show the user whats around them as if they had eyes on the back of their head when the user threatened.
Spider sense can show the user whats around them as if they had eyes on the back of their head when the user threatened.

So with this perk, Clark will be able to see incoming threats before they become immediate threats to himself, and be able to react accordingly

Counters

I'd also like to note that no more than one team member is needed to remotely pilot and control every single one of these vehicles - placing their own devices on each of the Quinjets (and the Helicarrier), Hill can control the entire fleet alone, as shown when she single handedly took remote control of the 3 Helicarriers of Project Insight and made them fire at each other to destroy them. This Helicarrier is one part I won't focus on for this battle, because while it's one of the things they would certainly go for a Hunger Games situation like this, it wouldn't really be too useful against Superman. I am obliged to cover it though.

Hill didn’t pilot the incyte helicarriers, but instead just took control of the targeting system to replace the millions of innocent people with the 3 helicarriers.

Sif will summon the Bifrost and travel back to Asgard or another planet in the Nine Realms to bring in weapons - anything small she can gather besides the enchanted double edged sword of hers; daggers, spears made of alien metals (like, presumably, uru or dragon-related material) technology capable of fazing even the most dangerous beings, such as the Obedience Disks and electricity-related weapons shown on Sakaar.

Since I can't contest going to asgard, since apparently asking heimdall for help is allowed, I will only argue Sif getting weapons she has never shown any experience or knowledge with.

Is there even any evidence to suggest Sif can just find uru lying around? Thor needed Eitri to craftStormbreaker just to fight Thanos. It doesn't seem like these uber powerful weapons are just lying around.

Okoye will travel back to Wakanda to assemble what she'll bring in. Unfortunetely, Okoye cannot bring in the Dora Milaje with her, as no human army is allowed in battle, but she can still bring in a fleet of incredibly advanced Dragon Flyers, Wakandan airships made of vibranium

As for controlling the wakandan ships, that would require Shuri’s lab. Seeing as how every time this remote control was used, it was in a seat generated in Shuri's lab. So this is impossible given the setting here, since I don’t believe Okoye can viably carry it with her

Basically, the moment Superman gets teleported on the field, he will be under a solid effect of Kryptonite, weakening him, slowing him down.

Considering Bruce found and used the only piece big enough to mean something as far as the world and the viewers know, finding enough kryptonite to lace the battlefield will be extremely unlikely, if not impossible.

Yes, the shield agents will have the resources to scour the world and internet for data, that doesn't mean they will easily find any kryptonite. Fury needed Banner to detect the mind stones gamma signature in The Avengers. So what logical reason is there for them to be able to track a radioactive signature they have no prior experience tracking? Satellites can't just see through hundreds if not thousands of feet of water to detect something. And as we saw, the biggest piece of kryptonite found was underwater, and its important to note that Lex's crew found the first, small sample in metropolis. If there had been more in the city, its highly likely that Lex would have found it considering he was in charge of the rebuilding of Metropolis

Clint's arrows could incapacitate him for a decent while - how much is up for debate - given they immobilised Vision, someone who is at the very least decently comparable to Clark in terms of durability - and I'll elaborate on that if necessary - completely for about 20 seconds straight.

As for Clint’s arrow, I don’t see why it should affect Clark when he can basically tank doomsday’s electricity emissions without damage or even being visibly stunned.

These same emissions were also shattering buildings in conjunction with the shockwave.

I don't see Clint's arrows working solely on account of Vision being susceptible to them.

From there on, he will have a fleet of over a good dozen powerful ships ready to knock him out through sheer firepower, 2 expert snipers with bullets that will penetrate his skin and Sif ready to kebab him to the ground. Clark's not surviving this one, period.

Perhaps you could clarify why any of your weapons can penetrate Clark’s skin when he is completely bulletproof and has better durability feats than anything your weapons have pierced.

How the fight will go

Clark will not be pulling his punches. The closest to a morals off Superman we’ve seen in the Snyder films was in a dream/alternate world scene where he melted a few rebels as soon as he saw them.

Seeing as how Clark’s own heat vision has melted steel near instantly, as well as temporarily matched Doomsday’s heat vision which was able to slice through the bat jet like a hot knife through butter. I don’t see why Clark can’t instantly one shot most of your team, as well as quickly bring down the helicarriers.

If the helicarriers don’t kill everyone left on the field on impact, I don't see whats stopping Clark from killing the rest of the team with either more heat vision or a beat down.

Combined with his super vision which allows him to see through objects as well as zoom in from great distances, which will allow him to see anyone on the battlefield, and super hearing that can hear the underwater pounding of Lois lane from thousands of feet in the away in the middle of a fight, to detect anyone he can’t immediately see, your team would find it nearly impossible to escape the wrath of Superman.

Any kryptonite on the field near Superman can also be blown away by one super powered leap, or a high speed crash into the ground. Which also helps to destabilize anyone nearby, as well as build distance between Clark and whoever is around him.

Whatever way you look at it, Clark can just easily destroy your team as well as vehicles with direct attacks, indirect attacks. From range or up close.

I haven't even touched his speed, but even if your team did pose a threat to him, Clark will abuse his speed as he did to Wonder Woman in order to prevent her bracelet clash.

Its your move @anthp2000

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#54 Posted by ANTHP2000 (28474 posts) - - Show Bio
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#55 Posted by King-Ragnar (4412 posts) - - Show Bio

Anthp will wank his way out of this one.

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#56 Edited by APEX_pretador (21255 posts) - - Show Bio

Cool

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#57 Posted by Marishtar (2167 posts) - - Show Bio

TV4

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#58 Posted by APEX_pretador (21255 posts) - - Show Bio
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#59 Posted by APEX_pretador (21255 posts) - - Show Bio
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#60 Posted by ANTHP2000 (28474 posts) - - Show Bio
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#61 Edited by ANTHP2000 (28474 posts) - - Show Bio

Counters

Okay, I'll divide the counter in categories based on the arguments WIYE brought up to make it easier to keep up with.

I'm guessing anthp missed the part that said "high tier" tournament, judging by the team they assembled.

No part said that :)

Gathering the Weapons

Hill didn’t pilot the incyte helicarriers, but instead just took control of the targeting system to replace the millions of innocent people with the 3 helicarriers.

I know she didn't, but taking control of their firing systems is all that needs to be done to single handedly attack the opposition with every Quinjet or vehicle. RPAS (Remotely Piloted Aircraft Systems) are common even IRL, let alone in a fictional organisation more elite than any other goverment agency in history. We know that S.H.I.E.L.D. HQ (which includes the Triskelion, the Hub and the Helicarrier No64) can take remote control of their vehicles without them been piloted, so all Hill needs to do is target the opponent.

Since I can't contest going to asgard, since apparently asking heimdall for help is allowed, I will only argue Sif getting weapons she has never shown any experience or knowledge with.

Is there even any evidence to suggest Sif can just find uru lying around? Thor needed Eitri to craftStormbreaker just to fight Thanos. It doesn't seem like these uber powerful weapons are just lying around.

I really won't focus on that part much because (a) it's not a vital part of my strategy against Superman and (b) it's partially subjective. I will say though that Sif has extensive knowledge in the Nine Realms, evident by her being knowledgable in every single race:

"You've visited different Realms... seeing different species, aliens. Have you ever encountered any that were blue?"

"Yes, of course."

"Which ones?"

"Interdites, Levians, Pheragots, Kree, Sarks, Centaurians. The Frost Giants tried to conquer your earth a millenia ago, but Asgard drove them away."

Phil Coulson and Lady Sif, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. S1E15, "Yes Men"

Obviously Sif's travelled around the Realms a lot.

"Only seven intelligent species across the known Realms require heightened levels of nitrogen gas, none humanoid. I learned this as a child, did you not?"

Lady Sif, Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. S2E12, "Who You Really Are"

And she's very well aware of their history. Sakaar was honestly just a hint of what weapons the Nine Realms have lying around. Basically it's just a random planet and yet it possessed weapons strong enough to restrain Thor. We've seen it with other alien races in the MCU as well, the Chitauri's weapons, Kronan weapons, Asgardian weapons themselves and weapons from various races Thanos had wiped out and gathered his adopted children from. I'm guessing Sif could find something to equip her teammates here with.

Regardless, Sif does have unique Asgardian weapons of her own that can kill Superman, which I'll elaborate on below.

As for controlling the wakandan ships, that would require Shuri’s lab. Seeing as how every time this remote control was used, it was in a seat generated in Shuri's lab. So this is impossible given the setting here, since I don’t believe Okoye can viably carry it with her

That's just a highily advanced method of remote piloting that's better suited for most situations because it's controlling vehicles all over the world from the comfort of your own home, doesn't mean they don't have more basic methods of piloting. Besides, that's not all that complicated when you realise that this is nothing but a straight up battle against an individual opponent they're in. Just set the Dragon Flyers on autopilot to sustain themselves in the air and Okoye only needs to control their targeting systems, just like Hill would do with the Quinjets, which is pretty basic.

Locating Kryptonite

Considering Bruce found and used the only piece big enough to mean something as far as the world and the viewers know, finding enough kryptonite to lace the battlefield will be extremely unlikely, if not impossible.

Bruce specifically said that this is the first meaningful sample of Kryptonite found though, that's what they had him say, and Luthor didn't search any further, he just put his plan to kill Superman in motion the moment he found a big enough piece. Besides, we know the terraformation of Earth to Krypton, before Clark stopped it, lasted quite a while. It'd be unreasonable to assume no more Kryptonite exists IMO.

Also even if they don't find enough Kryptonite to spray the battlefield they can carry weapons with them, which can be used after Superman is successfuly restrained, something I'll elaborate on below.

Yes, the shield agents will have the resources to scour the world and internet for data, that doesn't mean they will easily find any kryptonite. Fury needed Banner to detect the mind stones gamma signature in The Avengers. So what logical reason is there for them to be able to track a radioactive signature they have no prior experience tracking?

If anything, the comparison you made with the Tesseract helps my argument. The reason S.H.I.E.L.D. couldn't track down the Mind Stone was because the gamma rays it omited were too weak, which there's no reason to assume would be the case with Kryptonite:

"This is the Tesseract. It has the potential energy to wipe out the planet."

"What does Fury want me to do, swallow it?"

"Well, he wants you to find it. It's been taken. It omits a gamma signature that's too weak for us to trace. There's no one that knows gamma radiation like you do."

Natasha Romanoff and Bruce Banner, "The Avengers"

In fact, if Kryptonite emits gamma rays, which it probably does since it's radioactive, it'll be a lot easier for the Team to locate it, seeing as how one of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s specialties is tracking down these materials, alien and whatnot. Not only that, but unlike the Tesseract, the Kryptonite is only going to be located around Metropolis and the Indian Ocean, not anywhere in the entire world. It's not stolen by Loki, it's just remnants of an alien material that crushed on earth in a very specific area.

Satellites can't just see through hundreds if not thousands of feet of water to detect something. And as we saw, the biggest piece of kryptonite found was underwater, and its important to note that Lex's crew found the first, small sample in metropolis. If there had been more in the city, its highly likely that Lex would have found it considering he was in charge of the rebuilding of Metropolis

Satellites actually can see through hundreds of feet inside the ocean. Oceanography is a science field in which satellite scanning is incredibly important. With a quick google search, you'll find loads of info on the matter, but basically, oceanographers use satellites to map the ocean floor, the landscape and topography underwater, and they go deep down as far as they can.

"The surface of the ocean bulges outward and inward, mimicking the topography of the ocean floor. The bumps, too small to be seen, can be measured by a radar altimeter aboard a satellite."

National Ocean Service

Obviously there's limits to that, but seeing underwater at great depths isn't beyond the agents' capabilities from the satellites, neither is actually having Clint and Natasha do up-close underwater research using resources that Luthor did not have.

This isn't just a diving team with hopes of maybe finding something, it's people who have past experience locating alien minerals, they have specialised resources to track down radioactive waves and they have knowledge on the general area of the material they'd be looking for.

The Weapons vs Superman

Perhaps you could clarify why any of your weapons can penetrate Clark’s skin when he is completely bulletproof and has better durability feats than anything your weapons have pierced.

I already claimed that the team has access to a wide array of weapons that can hurt Superman, and kill a Kryptonian. Let's have a quick breakdown. Now, I've watched Superman's appearances more than once, and to my knowledge, his best piercing resistence showings involve tanking high caliber bullets. Obviously this isn't his limit, it'd be dumb to argue that, and yes, his density is great, but my team also has weapons well past the level of any bladed or piercing weapons Superman's encountered, besides maybe Wonder Woman's Sword of Athena, which still worked on a more powerful Kryptonian than Clark. I've already presented some of the weapons the team has access to here, so I'll just analyse some more below.

Wakandan Technology

Okoye provides very advanced military weapons, including Dragon Flyers, vibranium spears and vibranium bullets. I've already shown the aircrafts having adequate firepower to completely annihilate other vibranium vehicles designed for war.

Black Panther (2018)
Black Panther (2018)

The Royal Talon and the Dragon Flyers project sonic blasts powerful enough to do this to what's the second most powerful known metal in the universe, and they can spam these blasts too.

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2
Black Panther Prelude #2 (2017)

In addition to this, vibranium bullets used by the Agents here have proven powerful enough to go right through the Panther Habit, T'Challa's suit, and damage him. Imagine just 2 or 3 headshots from this, Clark will go down hard. T'Challa in that suit can completely no-sell, as in not even get fazed by, high caliber machine gunfire from above.

Black Panther (2018)
Black Panther (2018)

Lastly, Okoye's vibranium spear, which has similar effects to the above weapons. She can cut clean through dense vibranium layers like nothing, and without actually trying. She simply unconcealed her spear and this happened.

Stark Technology

Widow and Hawkeye have access to S.H.I.E.L.D. tech further advanced by Tony Stark. The one, specific weapon I brough up that will prove very important here is Clint's set of electricity projecting arrows. As Renner said before, Hawkeye has specialised stuff that could put down the Hulk lol. Anyway, they've only been used on Vision twice (which honestly says something), so we can judge their output based on this.

No Caption Provided
Captain America: Civil War (2016)
Captain America: Civil War (2016)

The Vision is an android body, the wet dream of Ultron, composed of synthetic simulacrum of organic tissue and further reinforced by vibranium. When a bus was thrown at high speeds by a multitonner on him, it split in half with Vision not even flinching, and when Scarlet Witch incapacitated him, she crushed him at high speeds through all the floors of the Avengers Facility and deep below the ground, which still didn't cause him any physical injuries. Basically, Vision is very durable. Superman is not made of vibranium, and I don't feel comfident saying he's as dense as vibranium (he might or might not be), but regardless of what you think of Vision, he's likely comparable to Clark.

As for Clint’s arrow, I don’t see why it should affect Clark when he can basically tank doomsday’s electricity emissions without damage or even being visibly stunned.

These same emissions were also shattering buildings in conjunction with the shockwave.

I don't see Clint's arrows working solely on account of Vision being susceptible to them.

Before anything, I must say that that's kinda weird to me that people often consider this electricity.

Loading Video...

Electric discharges conduct most waters, especially sea water, very well, and Lois survived Doomsday's attack by diving underwater, with the attack passing right above her... so correct me if I'm wrong but does it make sense that it'd be electricity? Many times in fiction, lightning-like VFX are used on attack that have nothing to do with electricity, just cause it looks cool. Besides this is just Doomsday unleashing the energy he absorbed from being blown up by Superman in a nearby factory. Doesn't sound like it would have anything to do with actual electricity.

And even if you want to say that this attack has some kind of electricity-related component, it obviously has a lot more going for it, shockwaves, energy and heat as shown when the cars were sent flying or when Wonder Woman's shield visibly absorbed some heat. The whole scene is an insane durability feat but it's too vague to say it's electricity resistence specifically, certainly not good enough to resist something with this voltage. Vision doesn't have any magical weakness to electricity either, and I'd wager he can replicate the above showing in Superman's place.

Let's also make something else clear: continuous discharge of electricity is not the same as a straightforward momentary hit with an electric blast. You need durability to tank a blast, you need actual electricity resistence to overcome something like these arrows. And finally, Superman did tank this blast, but he couldn't do anything about it until it was over. He had to defend against it like Diana.

Don't get me wrong, Hawkeye doesn't have electricity arrows that can actually hurt Clark at all, he'd never hurt Vision either, that'd be pretty ridiculous, but he can stun him and incapacitate him for a time, and that's all that's needed so that the rest of the team can take him out with wakandan and asgardian weapons.

Asgardian Weapons

First off, I think it's implied Sif's weapon of choice is Uru, it's been described as "enchanted" (the main attribute of Uru-made weapons) and is forged and provided to her by Odin personally. The only other Asgardian weapons described that way are the royal weapons (Mjolnir, Stormbreaker, Gungir) and the sword of the Bifrost.

Marvel Studios Visual Dictionary (2018)
Marvel Studios Visual Dictionary (2018)

Sif is also known as the Goddess of War and Odin's greatest warrior besides Thor so it'd make sense. Regardless of wether or not you agree with this now, since we don't really have an explicit statement of it being Uru (although same can be said about Mjolnir or Stormbreaker), it's still more than powerful enough to kill Superman, esspecially when used by someone of Sif's strength:

Thor (2011)
Thor (2011)

She cut through the Destroyer like butter and immediately shut it down. Unfortunetely, the Destroyer had massive regeneration so Sif couldn't put it down for good, but that's not the case with Superman. The Destroyer was the protector of Odin's vault, and one of the most advanced pieces of machinery in Asgard. It's a literal walking armour stated to be impenetrable by almost all known weapons. Seeing that thing walking around made Fury realise that S.H.I.E.L.D. needed firepower upgrades. This should give you an idea of how powerful Sif's enchanted weapons are.

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. S3: Who You Really Are (2015)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. S3: Who You Really Are (2015)

And here Sif bypasses Vault D's force field, cutting through one of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s maximum security prison cells, "inertial confinement laser barriers", logically highily impenetrable and shutting it down by applying enough pressure with her sword. And of course her weapons can also easily kill Frost Giants like Loki, who are highily bulletproof, so there's that too I guess. She also carries more than one blades with her, her sword can be dual wielded and she carries custom knives.

Lastly, one point you made in your last section that I feel like is worth adressing because of the worst-case-scenario that for some reason Clark won't be incapacitated by the arrows:

Any kryptonite on the field near Superman can also be blown away by one super powered leap, or a high speed crash into the ground. Which also helps to destabilize anyone nearby, as well as build distance between Clark and whoever is around him.

You're underestimating how quick and painful the effects of Kryptonite are to Superman.

Batman Vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (2015)
Batman Vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (2015)

He literally collapsed and couldn't breathe because he was exposed to a tiny kryptonite gas grenade by Batman. He won't be able to make these high speed leaps and punches while he's dying.

Conclusion

Basically, the moment Superman enters the battlefield he'll be trapped in a voltage, which he won't be able to overcome until it's too late. The Kryptonite will also affect him and weaken him significantly. Then, he can be sniped by the agents and/or impaled by Sif or Okoye (wether or not Okoye has enough strength to kill him is debatable I guess, but I think the spear is enough). Or he can be blasted to hell by the Dragon Flyers, the Quinjets and Hawkeye's explosives. He just won't be able to do anything about it. Heck in the very, very bad to worst case scenario where the Kryptonite won't be enough or that the team won't be able to find it (which I don't see any real reason for), he'll still be incapacitated enough for the team to kill him.

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@webinyoureye11 it's up

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#63 Posted by DarkDementor101 (505 posts) - - Show Bio
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#65 Posted by DarkDementor101 (505 posts) - - Show Bio
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#66 Posted by JSDoctor (1649 posts) - - Show Bio

Um. I came onto CV after a couple weeks of not using it much, had a notification, went onto my notifications tab and was met with what can only be described as an excessiveamount of gay porn. Clicking the notification took me here, where I can see post #64 was removed.....

So I'm guessing Ta-er is back?

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#67 Posted by ANTHP2000 (28474 posts) - - Show Bio
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#68 Posted by JSDoctor (1649 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: Yeah, that figures. Gay porn's a new one though, haven't seen him use that before.

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#69 Posted by ANTHP2000 (28474 posts) - - Show Bio

@jsdoctor: It's been going on for a few days now.

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#70 Posted by DarkDementor101 (505 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: How far back has he existed on the vine?

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#71 Posted by deactivated-5ce31fd2abc3a (110 posts) - - Show Bio
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#72 Posted by DarkDementor101 (505 posts) - - Show Bio

@mhm-: I guess some people just don't have a life!

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#76 Posted by ourmanuel (12269 posts) - - Show Bio

got your pm faggot

imma remember you

Bruh, what kinda threat is that?

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#78 Posted by DarkDementor101 (505 posts) - - Show Bio

@ourmanuel: Read this right now lmfao!

Tf else can he do to me apart from sending the exact same gif over and over again, lel!

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#79 Posted by APEX_pretador (21255 posts) - - Show Bio
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#81 Posted by APEX_pretador (21255 posts) - - Show Bio
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#82 Posted by webinyoureye11 (5784 posts) - - Show Bio
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#83 Posted by King-Ragnar (4412 posts) - - Show Bio

I vote for Anthp cause he's using humans with no penises.

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#84 Edited by ANTHP2000 (28474 posts) - - Show Bio

I vote for Anthp cause he's using humans with no penises.

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#85 Posted by APEX_pretador (21255 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: dude, you don’t have to tag me. I’m working on it

Well I have to remind you that its been ten days. Please be as quick as you can, I don't want this match to end abruptly.

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#87 Posted by webinyoureye11 (5784 posts) - - Show Bio

Whoops, that was an accident

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#88 Posted by APEX_pretador (21255 posts) - - Show Bio
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#89 Posted by webinyoureye11 (5784 posts) - - Show Bio

Counters 2.0

Weapon prep

I know she didn't, but taking control of their firing systems is all that needs to be done to single handedly attack the opposition with every Quinjet or vehicle. RPAS (Remotely Piloted Aircraft Systems) are common even IRL, let alone in a fictional organisation more elite than any other goverment agency in history. We know that S.H.I.E.L.D. HQ (which includes the Triskelion, the Hub and the Helicarrier No64) can take remote control of their vehicles without them been piloted, so all Hill needs to do is target the opponent.

And how will she be doing all of this from the ground? Is she bringing a laptop with wifi?

Allow me to remind you the rules of this battle :

Battle rules:

  • The fight takes place in a large field of grass. Fighters start 40 meters (127 feet) apart near the middle of the field. They start on the ground. About a km away from there is a river surrounding the field from all sides, ie circular. It is 5 m wide, 5 m deep.

Show me Hill or anyone on your team remotely piloting these ships so that way we can determine if it’s even possible to do with the conditions in this match. Otherwise, I don't see any reason why they will be able to adjust the targeting system to attack Clark before they get vaporized or their heads knocked off.

And she's very well aware of their history. Sakaar was honestly just a hint of what weapons the Nine Realms have lying around. Basically it's just a random planet and yet it possessed weapons strong enough to restrain Thor. We've seen it with other alien races in the MCU as well, the Chitauri's weapons, Kronan weapons, Asgardian weapons themselves and weapons from various races Thanos had wiped out and gathered his adopted children from. I'm guessing Sif could find something to equip her teammates here with.

Again, this is speculation. Prove Sif has knowledge on all these weapons you wanna have her find. Sakaar wasn’t just some random planet, it was a hub for numerous jump points. It makes more sense that the universal dump would have tech from all around the universe rather than Sif being able to find and attain said weapons.

That's just a highily advanced method of remote piloting that's better suited for most situations because it's controlling vehicles all over the world from the comfort of your own home, doesn't mean they don't have more basic methods of piloting. Besides, that's not all that complicated when you realise that this is nothing but a straight up battle against an individual opponent they're in. Just set the Dragon Flyers on autopilot to sustain themselves in the air and Okoye only needs to control their targeting systems, just like Hill would do with the Quinjets, which is pretty basic.

Show me these dragon flyers flying on auto pilot. Show me Okoye or anyone mass controlling wakandan weapon systems. Or better yet stop making unsubstantiated claims altogether.

Countering kryptonite

Bruce specifically said that this is the first meaningful sample of Kryptonite found though, that's what they had him say, and Luthor didn't search any further, he just put his plan to kill Superman in motion the moment he found a big enough piece. Besides, we know the terraformation of Earth to Krypton, before Clark stopped it, lasted quite a while. It'd be unreasonable to assume no more Kryptonite exists IMO.

Also even if they don't find enough Kryptonite to spray the battlefield they can carry weapons with them, which can be used after Superman is successfuly restrained, something I'll elaborate on below.

Yes, the first meaningful sample found in 18 months. Now how does that prove there is more kryptonite for your team to utilize? If kryptonite was so plentiful, why did it take 18 months to find a worthwhile sample?

If anything, the comparison you made with the Tesseract helps my argument. The reason S.H.I.E.L.D. couldn't track down the Mind Stone was because the gamma rays it omited were too weak, which there's no reason to assume would be the case with Kryptonite

Huh?? How can you possibly know what radiation is emitted, or how strong it is? This is a baseless statement.

In fact, if Kryptonite emits gamma rays, which it probably does since it's radioactive, it'll be a lot easier for the Team to locate it, seeing as how one of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s specialties is tracking down these materials, alien and whatnot. Not only that, but unlike the Tesseract, the Kryptonite is only going to be located around Metropolis and the Indian Ocean, not anywhere in the entire world. It's not stolen by Loki, it's just remnants of an alien material that crushed on earth in a very specific area.

Shield needed Bruce Banner to find the tesseract because they didn’t have the knowledge or experience on gamma radiation he had. So unless someone on your team is rivaling Bruce Banner in terms of intellect, this point is moot.

Like, how does the tesseract have anything to do with kryptonite? The tesseract having the potential energy to wipe the planet makes it dwarf any reasonable assumption you can make about kryptonite’s radiation output, and yet it was still too weak to be detected by shield.

You don’t even know what kind of radiation kryptonite emits. I can just as easily assume it admits radiation unknown to earth, and no shield tech will be equipped to detect it whatsoever.

Satellites actually can see through hundreds of feet inside the ocean. Oceanography is a science field in which satellite scanning is incredibly important. With a quick google search, you'll find loads of info on the matter, but basically, oceanographers use satellites to map the ocean floor, the landscape and topography underwater, and they go deep down as far as they can.

Mapping the ocean floor isn’t the same as visually seeing the floor. Your own quote says bumps can be too small to be seen. So how does this help them spot kryptonite?

Obviously there's limits to that, but seeing underwater at great depths isn't beyond the agents' capabilities from the satellites, neither is actually having Clint and Natasha do up-close underwater research using resources that Luthor did not have.

This isn't just a diving team with hopes of maybe finding something, it's people who have past experience locating alien minerals, they have specialised resources to track down radioactive waves and they have knowledge on the general area of the material they'd be looking for.

When has anyone on your team participated in underwater missions? What experience do they have finding alien minerals? The tesseract doesn’t count.

Your weapons vs Superman's durability

The Royal Talon and the Dragon Flyers project sonic blasts powerful enough to do this to what's the second most powerful known metal in the universe, and they can spam these blasts too.

I don't recall you mentioning the Royal Talon in your prep. Is that a not so subtle revision to your original plan?

Vibranium has a specific weakness to sonics. The same car you label as “dense vibranium” was blasted apart by a wave that T’Challa was able to block with a casino safe and not die. Superman has already tanked 300 decibel sound cannons, so this attack just proves that vibranium isn’t as durable as Superman.

Plus, the royal talon is far more powerful considering the regular flyers couldn’t even one shot glass. Hell, even in the clip you posted the blasts aren't doing more damage to the ground then an Ultron drone repulsor can do

No Caption Provided

In addition to this, vibranium bullets used by the Agents here have proven powerful enough to go right through the Panther Habit, T'Challa's suit, and damage him. Imagine just 2 or 3 headshots from this, Clark will go down hard. T'Challa in that suit can completely no-sell, as in not even get fazed by, high caliber machine gunfire from above.

And please do tell me, where are you gonna find vibranium bullets? I don’t believe anyone on your team will be able to just craft vibranium bullets on a whim. Unless you have evidence to back this claim up.

As for the high caliber rounds that T’Challa withstood, they were a far cry from the rounds that Superman has shrugged off without damage. The biggest rounds T’Challa has faced were just 7.62 mm rounds whereas Clark has faced .50 bmg as well as 30 mm tank busters.

Here is a comparison on the size of each round

T'Challa tanked number 2, while Clark has tanked 3 & 6 with zero penetration
T'Challa tanked number 2, while Clark has tanked 3 & 6 with zero penetration

So Clark still has better durability feats than the panther suit.

Lastly, Okoye's vibranium spear, which has similar effects to the above weapons. She can cut clean through dense vibranium layers like nothing, and without actually trying. She simply unconcealed her spear and this happened.

Ok, now prove that car is as durable as Superman.

The Vision is an android body, the wet dream of Ultron, composed of synthetic simulacrum of organic tissue and further reinforced by vibranium. When a bus was thrown at high speeds by a multitonner on him, it split in half with Vision not even flinching, and when Scarlet Witch incapacitated him, she crushed him at high speeds through all the floors of the Avengers Facility and deep below the ground, which still didn't cause him any physical injuries. Basically, Vision is very durable. Superman is not made of vibranium, and I don't feel comfident saying he's as dense as vibranium (he might or might not be), but regardless of what you think of Vision, he's likely comparable to Clark.

And how does any of this prove an electric arrow will work? Just cause it worked on Vision? That's a false equivalency. Vision is not as durable as Superman, and as you said, hes an android. A simple explanation for Clint's arrows effectiveness would be that they interfered with Visions computer like mind. Electrical surges can damage computer hardware, so it stands to reason this is why it works so well on things that are run by computers. As we've seen with Iron Man's armor in Avengers: Infinity War.

And even if you want to say that this attack has some kind of electricity-related component, it obviously has a lot more going for it, shockwaves, energy and heat as shown when the cars were sent flying or when Wonder Woman's shield visibly absorbed some heat. The whole scene is an insane durability feat but it's too vague to say it's electricity resistence specifically, certainly not good enough to resist something with this voltage. Vision doesn't have any magical weakness to electricity either, and I'd wager he can replicate the above showing in Superman's place.

First of all, Clint’s arrows electrical output is unquantifiable. Second, doomsday’s electricity never touched the water Lois was in. You might as well say the shockwave he emitted wasn’t a real shockwave since it was red. That’s basically your argument here. Prove that Clint’s arrows are more powerful, otherwise I don’t see why they will do anything. Falsely equating Vision to Superman is not gonna work considering Clark has far better durability feats.

Let's also make something else clear: continuous discharge of electricity is not the same as a straightforward momentary hit with an electric blast. You need durability to tank a blast, you need actual electricity resistence to overcome something like these arrows. And finally, Superman did tank this blast, but he couldn't do anything about it until it was over. He had to defend against it like Diana.

As you said, there was more to the emission than just electricity. So its not like he was held back solely by electricity.

Don't get me wrong, Hawkeye doesn't have electricity arrows that can actually hurt Clark at all, he'd never hurt Vision either, that'd be pretty ridiculous, but he can stun him and incapacitate him for a time, and that's all that's needed so that the rest of the team can take him out with wakandan and asgardian weapons.

Ok lets just say Clint's arrows will work. Why would they touch Clark when he has the spider sense? The electricity will move in slow motion from his perspective.

Not to mention that the spider sense will warn of the traps so Clark will know to avoid them altogether. This added with his speed to move relative to Flash's electricity, there is always the option of dodging it.

She cut through the Destroyer like butter and immediately shut it down. Unfortunetely, the Destroyer had massive regeneration so Sif couldn't put it down for good, but that's not the case with Superman. The Destroyer was the protector of Odin's vault, and one of the most advanced pieces of machinery in Asgard. It's a literal walking armour stated to be impenetrable by almost all known weapons. Seeing that thing walking around made Fury realise that S.H.I.E.L.D. needed firepower upgrades. This should give you an idea of how powerful Sif's enchanted weapons are.

Unfortunately for you the Destroyer armor lacks the feats to claim damaging it would prove Sif is capable of damaging Clark the same way. If you wanna go the statement route, I can dig up statements saying Clark is stronger than a planet. Hell, he's even indirectly stated to be unkillable by way of the general in BvS claiming Doomsday was unkillable for surviving the nuke Superman also withstood.

But lets say the bullets penetrate. Anything short of a kill shot will not be enough due to the healing factor provided by the sun (provided the sun is visible) for Superman.

Conclusion

There is still nothing stopping from Clark vaporizing your team and vehicles from the start like so

No Caption Provided

Even if Sif can withstand heat vision, I doubt she will also be fine after the helicarrier you've brought falls on top of her head.

There's nothing your team can do against a blitz like so:

No Caption Provided

They will be just as helpless as Wonder Woman against Superman's speed.

Any potential dangers are too slow to tag a Clark that's willing to dodge as he did against Steppenwolf

No Caption Provided

Your argument seems to rely on your team being extremely fortuitous in their preparations and Clark either standing still for your weapons to hit him or walking into your traps. While Clark can pretty much dodge anything thrown at him as well as one shot just about everything your team brings.

your move @anthp2000

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#91 Posted by webinyoureye11 (5784 posts) - - Show Bio

@apex_pretador: I already posted my counter. Did you see the post prior to yours?

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#92 Posted by webinyoureye11 (5784 posts) - - Show Bio
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#93 Posted by APEX_pretador (21255 posts) - - Show Bio
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#94 Edited by ANTHP2000 (28474 posts) - - Show Bio

I had to make this sooner than I intented to because I have loads of responsibilities and exams coming up IRL, so I won't be very active for the next weeks. Here comes.

Closing Post: Killing the Man of Steel

"If you want to stay ahead of me, you need to keep both eyes open."

Gathering the Weapons

And how will she be doing all of this from the ground? Is she bringing a laptop with wifi?

What? Did you not read my opener? Hill and Fury are positioned inside the Helicarrier, which, as explicitly stated already, is a moving S.H.I.EL.D. H.Q. And since this is my closing post and I'll have to prevent any possible misconceptions, Apex already said that while we can't bring in a living human army to fight, the non-combat ready crew working to keep the Helicarrier sustained in the air can be ignored.

Show me Hill or anyone on your team remotely piloting these ships so that way we can determine if it’s even possible to do with the conditions in this match.

I've already proven S.H.I.E.L.D. H.Q. can remotely pilot their planes and vehicles like Victoria Hand did with Coulson's plane - Agent May explains it in the screenshot I posted from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. in my previous post. I've already shown Hill changing the targets of 3 massively advanced Helicarriers with a sweep of her fingers. What more do you need?

Again, this is speculation. Prove Sif has knowledge on all these weapons you wanna have her find. Sakaar wasn’t just some random planet, it was a hub for numerous jump points. It makes more sense that the universal dump would have tech from all around the universe rather than Sif being able to find and attain said weapons.

Like I said, I won't insist further on this because (a) I see where you're coming from and (b) it's not a vital part of my plan. I just felt like it's worth mentioning in a hypothetical scenario, for the hell of it or as an indication of what she might be able to bring in.

Show me these dragon flyers flying on auto pilot. Show me Okoye or anyone mass controlling wakandan weapon systems. Or better yet stop making unsubstantiated claims altogether.

You think something as advanced as Shuri's vehicles don't have auto-pilot? Really? That's like saying Superman cannot punch Hawkeye's head off because he's never punched a human's head off. Anyway I guess I have a "feat" of that happening regardless, Okoye was piloting the Royal Talon and she stopped so her and T'Challa could both drop at ground level and the ship was still flying. Similarly, using the weapons system shouldn't be anything more than basic. It's just hacking into a vehicle's system - I've already shown Widow hacking into the War Machine armor, a weapon built by Tony Stark, and rebooting it. Or you know... Okoye should have first hand knowledge on these weapon systems and their controls given she's the head of Wakanda's army and their weapons. Anyway, none of that is a problem obviously, let's not create issues out of nothing.

Locating the Kryptonite

Yes, the first meaningful sample found in 18 months. Now how does that prove there is more kryptonite for your team to utilize? If kryptonite was so plentiful, why did it take 18 months to find a worthwhile sample?

Yeah that, they had him say "the first", not "the only". I think the writers mean that there's more Kryptonite lying around. And first off, they weren't searching for 18 months. Luthor learned about Kryptonians' weakness to Kryptonite somewhere inside the 18 months between Zod's invasion and the locating of the chunk of Kryptonite we see. Second, Luthor hired a basic team of divers who are literally just youngsters with masks swimming underwater - SHIELD has high tech equipment used to locate minerals and other substances, underwater vehicles and expert drivers.

Huh?? How can you possibly know what radiation is emitted, or how strong it is? This is a baseless statement.

Shield needed Bruce Banner to find the tesseract because they didn’t have the knowledge or experience on gamma radiation he had. So unless someone on your team is rivaling Bruce Banner in terms of intellect, this point is moot.

Like, how does the tesseract have anything to do with kryptonite? The tesseract having the potential energy to wipe the planet makes it dwarf any reasonable assumption you can make about kryptonite’s radiation output, and yet it was still too weak to be detected by shield.

You don’t even know what kind of radiation kryptonite emits. I can just as easily assume it admits radiation unknown to earth, and no shield tech will be equipped to detect it whatsoever.

You are the one who brought this up as reasoning for why my team cannot locate Kryptonite - I'm just saying. I posted the exact conversation between Banner and Natasha when she recruits him, and she explicitly states that they can't track it down because the radiation it emits is too weak. That is why they needed Bruce's expertise on gamma radiation. Because a very weak emission of this radiation was occuring somewhere on earth, as far as they know possibly even outside of it given Loki is a dimension-travelling alien - not because they can't track down gamma radiation in general like you're suggesting. Her statement basically proves they have tools that track down gamma radiation to a reasonable degree. Kryptonite is strictly located around the World Engine ruins and we agreed my team has acquired that info, and yeah we don't know the kind of radiation it emits or the power of it or anything, that is why I did not bring that up specifically, but you did and I thought I'd use it since it goes both ways.

Mapping the ocean floor isn’t the same as visually seeing the floor. Your own quote says bumps can be too small to be seen. So how does this help them spot kryptonite?

No, my quote says that the bumps that are too small to be seen by humans are been measured and used by the satellites to map the ocean floor - which is the same as locating whatever solid substance exists in the ocean floor, which includes Kryptonite, which is terraformed ocean floor or plantlife.

When has anyone on your team participated in underwater missions? What experience do they have finding alien minerals? The tesseract doesn’t count.

Well, I already established Fury has the resources to track down minerals above. And yeah, my team has field agents who specialise in missions like those and are expert drivers. For instance,

The Avengers Prelude: The Avengers Initiative (2012)
The Avengers Prelude: The Avengers Initiative (2012)

Clint was assigned by Fury with going deep underwater and infiltrating the same Helicarrier that is in this battle as a test of the base's security, showing both Clint's experience in underwater operations and the vehicles that can be used underwater. Plus, let's be honest, that's S.H.I.E.L.D.'s whole thing, locating alien objects and securing them.

The Team's Weapons Vs Superman's Durability

I don't recall you mentioning the Royal Talon in your prep. Is that a not so subtle revision to your original plan?

No, there's no revision. What does that even change? It's just another vehicle. Again, you're trying to create issues out of nothing. The Royal Talon is technically just a more advanced Dragon Flyer anyway, and Okoye has piloted it solo more than once. But if you think that's unfair that I didn't make it clear enough in my opener or anything, I don't care enough to include it.

Vibranium has a specific weakness to sonics. The same car you label as “dense vibranium” was blasted apart by a wave that T’Challa was able to block with a casino safe and not die.

You're right that it does, so what by that? Am I supposed to believe that Wakanda's most powerful war vehicles are built just so they can shoot each other out of the sky when even the lesser Sonic Spears used by the human army can stop tanks? How do we even know these cannons are sound-related?

Superman has already tanked 300 decibel sound cannons, so this attack just proves that vibranium isn’t as durable as Superman.

No that contradicts your previous statement that "Vibranium has a specific weakness to sonics.". A "specific weakness" is not a good means of comparison.

Plus, the royal talon is far more powerful considering the regular flyers couldn’t even one shot glass. Hell, even in the clip you posted the blasts aren't doing more damage to the ground then an Ultron drone repulsor can do

That's obviously not just "glass", it's more than likely reinforced by vibranium. Humans can destroy glass by hitting it hard enough... Also, we have absolutely no evidence of what you're saying. How do you even know how much damage those blasts did to the ground? Bottom line is, they were shooting down vibranium aircrafts.

And please do tell me, where are you gonna find vibranium bullets? I don’t believe anyone on your team will be able to just craft vibranium bullets on a whim. Unless you have evidence to back this claim up.

No one needs to craft anything, vibranium bullets are a thing in Wakanda. Just because they're not often used by the military (although the gun Bucky took from Natasha's case in the quinjet was still kept in Wakanda until he woke up and they had it loaded for him, so sometimes they clearly use them) doesn't mean they don't exist. It's made a big deal in the Black Panther Prelude I showed that these bullets exist and were stolen by mercenaries too:

Black Panther Prelude (2018)
Black Panther Prelude (2018)

So there's no reason why Okoye, the Head of Wakanda's armed forces, cannot provide the Team with them.

As for the high caliber rounds that T’Challa withstood, they were a far cry from the rounds that Superman has shrugged off without damage. The biggest rounds T’Challa has faced were just 7.62 mm rounds whereas Clark has faced .50 bmg as well as 30 mm tank busters.

So Clark still has better durability feats than the panther suit.

I'm not even sure that's the highest caliber bullets the Panther Habit has no sold, he's also taken AR bullets from other mercenaries and Killmonger. Either way, vibranium's stated to be completely bulletproof, so this is clearly nitpicking. Bullets aren't a threat to this suit. Superman's never tanked bullets Panther couldn't and he has no piercing resistence feats that the Panther Habit could not replicate.

Ok, now prove that car is as durable as Superman.

The car is obviously not as durable as Superman, it won't be taking nukes any times soon. That doesn't mean Clark would do better than this vibranium object against bladed weapons or bullets - that is the whole point. And comic-book writers make that distinction very clear as well. Wonder Woman can take hits from powerhouses, yet a terrestrial bullet or a sword could theoritically kill her. So I don't see why Okoye's spear that did this to an object without her even trying to penetrate it or having the advanced properties it showed in Avengers: Infinity War against Proxima Midnight and Thanos (likely increasing the damage outpout), could not at least penetrate vital spots of Clark's body. After she did this she threw and stuck it on the street and tore a speeding car in half.

And how does any of this prove an electric arrow will work? Just cause it worked on Vision? That's a false equivalency. Vision is not as durable as Superman,

I've shown feats for Vision which you have not even tried to counter. He stood in front of a bus (the weight of which typically ranges from 11-12 to 15 tons) thrown by Giant Man, an insane multitonner, and it tore in half when it hit him, with him not even flinching. I'd say Superman can replicate this, but yeah this is obviously far from Vision's limit. He's vibranium-built, which Superman isn't, and I don't think he has better feats than vibranium, which straight up absorbs kinetic energy. I've already explained why Vision should be at the very least comparable to Superman in terms of durability. Even being half as durable or even less than that would result to Clark being incapacitated for a few seconds, which is all that's needed.

and as you said, hes an android. A simple explanation for Clint's arrows effectiveness would be that they interfered with Visions computer like mind. Electrical surges can damage computer hardware, so it stands to reason this is why it works so well on things that are run by computers. As we've seen with Iron Man's armor in Avengers: Infinity War.

No guidebook or scene or anything even implies that while describing the scene, and you'd have a plausible point if we hadn't already seen how Ultron, a lesser form of Vision, did not have his "computer like mind" messed up when Thor's lightning hit him in Avengers: Age of Ultron. If that was the case, Thor would have shut him down or incapacitated him with a simple bolt of lightning.

Also keep in mind that I'm not comparing Clint's arrows to Thor's lightning in terms of power, I'm just bringing this up to debunk the notion that electricity is Vision's kryptonite.

First of all, Clint’s arrows electrical output is unquantifiable.

Just like most of these fictional blasts, that's why we have feats, like them having the stopping power to incapacitate Vision. And I think it's worth noting that in order for electricity to be projected in this amount in our air, it needs to produce enough power to ionize the air around its field, because air is normally electricity resistant. So that's pretty damn powerful anyway.

Second, doomsday’s electricity never touched the water Lois was in. You might as well say the shockwave he emitted wasn’t a real shockwave since it was red. That’s basically your argument here. Prove that Clint’s arrows are more powerful, otherwise I don’t see why they will do anything. Falsely equating Vision to Superman is not gonna work considering Clark has far better durability feats.

I have to prove that Clint's arrows are more powerful than what? Doomsday's energy blast? It does not translate to a continuous discharge of electricity projected by Clint's arrows - one is a whole mix of random stuff that might include some type of electricity, the other is a certain amount of voltage. Hawkeye's arrows do not have better concrete feats than the beam of Vision's Mind Stone, and this same beam he can tank while weakened, and yet that didn't stop him from getting incapacitated by the trap. Because it's not about damage output, it's about the resistence to electricity, and Superman hasn't shown any, nor is he on a different tier of durability than Vision to suggest the same standard doesn't apply to him.

As you said, there was more to the emission than just electricity. So its not like he was held back solely by electricity.

I didn't say he was. But it's just something else to consider regarding your argument that he won't be affected by the arrows because of his showing against Doomsday.

Ok lets just say Clint's arrows will work. Why would they touch Clark when he has the spider sense? The electricity will move in slow motion from his perspective.

This is an interesting and debatable matter, it's a shame we won't be actively discussing it further due to the post limit. I'll try to address everything I can here:

First off, Superman's speed. Now electricity through the wires in our homes and any normal metal conductor moves at around 1/100th of the speed of Light, which is highily hypersonic - when projected in the air in the form of a discharge like a spark or lightning (or Clint's arrows) in thin ionized air, it can go much faster because the electrons won't bump into the atoms of the conductor (the wire for instance). It will always go below the speed of light, but it will still be massively hypersonic at least. Here's a source addressing this matter - Answer 3. Wether or not Superman is that fast in terms of reaction speed is beyond me - IMO his best showing is outreacting Wonder Woman in Justice League, and practically blitzing her before she can make a bracelet blast. Diana is admittedly highily supersonic in combat and reactions at least, so that could be enough to put him on a level where he will percieve electricity and be able to time it, but the scaling has limits, he can outreact her, but how does he compare exactly? He cannot statue her, which is a popular misconception, there's a lot of problems with this scene; here's a good breakdown from @supremegeneration;

No Caption Provided

Oh well here goes my chance to fight against the statue-force meme. Gosh I was dreading this...

  • For starters, Diana is suspended in the air unable to move. The idea that Clark and Barry made a casual bullet timer frozen/a statue is wrong at it's core. You and I have apparently discussed this at length in the past. You seemed convinced that she could move her arms or head in the air and since given that I didn't respond, I became convinced as well. However, there's actually a much more reliable and, in my opinion, plausible explanation. The reason she couldn't move isn't because she was made a statue by two speedsters (considering she has moved at Flash level speed in the past; third bullet point) but because she had just been thrown by freaking Superman. The strength at which he could throw anyone would likely be enough to make sure they can't move in mid-air, especially when the camera is going in super slow-motion (last bullet point)
    • Let's be completely honest here, if you replace Diana being thrown with Barry being thrown, he'd also be frozen. The moment he pushed Clark and he lost his footing, he was no longer moving at high speeds. Being thrown by Superman is something no one ever bothered to apply. In reality, it's a big factor. Being unable to move not just because you're in mid-air but because the throw is that freaking strong is extremely important to note.
  • Wonder Woman has technically shown Flash-level speed in the past. When he gave her back the sword, she moved her fingers to grab it. I've seen the argument that the sword wasn't moving at Flash-level speed, but we clearly see her falling at the same rate she was before Barry touched the sword, and we see the sword moving way faster than the usual slo-mo that everything else was at. Furthermore, we're still in Barry's perspective even shortly after she grabs the sword.
  • People have also tried to argue in the past that the fight isn't in a speedster's perspective, but that the camera itself was in slow-motion due to facial expressions also being in what appears to be in slow motion. Superman and Flash's movements did appear to be moving in some slow motion, for example:
No Caption Provided

Look at that. From the throwing of the three heroes to the punch against Barry, Clark most certainly (visually) moves faster than that when the camera isn't in slow motion. To also further my first bullet point using this GIF you'll note that immediately after letting go of Diana, she's still moving. If he'd made her a genuine statue, she would've been frozen the moment he let go of her. Furthermore, even in the GIF you posted, Aquaman (who he threw with one arm just like he did Diana) is actually moving just ever slightly. So is Diana, but a little less than Arthur. Given that Diana's reacted at actual Flash-level in the past, it makes much more sense that the camera was simply in slow-motion. Another instance to further showcase this, let's look at how fast Superman turns his head:

No Caption Provided

For reference, I deleted all the scenes with Barry in them because it got annoying and it was hard to tell when the GIF started otherwise. Anyways if we look at the GIF, we realize how freaking long it took Superman to turn his head. He's definitely not trying to intimidate Barry, he could sense heartbeats as Cyborg pointed out to Arthur, he knew Barry was already scared. The only reason Superman would be turning his head that freaking slow would be if the camera were in slow-motion, which I hopefully proved it was.

Basically, Diana was been thrown by Superman, and she could not turn around her head or make any intentional motion, and even if you want to say she could, she would not need to for no reason whatsoever. She's basically taking the effect of an attack, which no character uses their combat speed to do so. Superman literally just statued a bunch of people falling. You could replace Diana, Arthur and Cyborg with Aunt May, Tony Stark and Happy Hogan or with Quicksilver, Spider-Man and the Flash and the feat wouldn't be any less or more impressive. It's just 3 bodies been thrown away by Superman. I'm not sure about the slow-mo part, but anyways, it's there to mention. I did not include the bullet point regarding the distinction between combat and reaction speed, because I disagree with it in the specific cases of Superman or Wonder Woman and I have to be genuine, but other than that, this is the thing.

Now, WIYE, I truly apologise if this wasn't gonna be part of your argument, but since this is my last post and you didn't bring the speed argument up earlier nor did you bring up any specific speed feats for Superman in this new post, I had to address this very popular argument. Everyone can just ignore it if it's not needed.

Second, another thing I need to mention are Superman's IC tactics. He doesn't have knowledge here on my Team or anything, and he is not bloodlusted so he will fight the same way he always fights. I want to note that he has been in a directly similar situation to the one I've presented for Cilnt and Vision in Batman Vs Superman: Dawn of Justice, where he falls for the same trap twice, not because he cannot react to the weapons Bruce used aganist him (the sonic cannons that clearly affected him for a while there, and the automatic gunfire), but because he believed he could tank them with no trouble and he was sure Batman had nothing to kill him.

Batman Vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (2015)
Batman Vs Superman: Dawn of Justice (2015)

First off, I want to note that if Batman had Sif, Widow and Hawkeye there ready to put him down with their advanced weapons I brought up, Clark would've died the moment he was stunned by those sound waves (but I guess Batman was just standing there because why not). What this shows is that Superman has poor judgement when it comes to identical concepts to the ones I'm presenting. Even though he could react to these blasts, he still decided to stonewall them, which he would more than likely do with Hawkeye's arrows as well. And he then does the same seconds later with the automatic firearms - he ignores them and takes the fire - which he might also try do with other people (Nat and Clint) shooting at him, unfortunetely for him my Team has far more advanced and effective tech to Batman's.

Basically, if Clark fights the same way he does IC (which he will by default), it could easily prove fatal. The electricity will be even more effective than the sound waves and give my team more than enough time to kill him and the headshots won't be no sold this time around, they will blow his brains out. So even if we assume he can react to the electricity, it certainly does not mean he will.

Also, one last technical thing to clear up, because it's easy to get confused, my opponent has the Morals Off perk here, but that just means Superman won't hesitate to kill his opponents because of his ethical values, not that he will fight differently - that would require a Bloodlusted Perk for him to start going OOC and seeking murder for a living.

Not to mention that the spider sense will warn of the traps so Clark will know to avoid them altogether.

The traps are automatic, he won't be avoiding them. If you look at my opener, I'm stating he will be using a lot of these arrows to surround the location (I even made a beautiful blueprint). They are automatic, so the moment Superman is teleported into the field, he gets stunned. You could say that he will be alerted about the arrows surrounding him, but the electricity projection will occur the moment he enters the area, so if he doesn't dodge the actual discharge, he will be hit - and even the radius a single arrow covers is significant, because it works like a small net due to the multiple points each arrow has that shoot the electric projectile. Spider-Sense would only be helpful if this was a similar situation to the scene where Clint used them on Vision with him walking into the trap, but not here.

This added with his speed to move relative to Flash's electricity,

That definitely doesn't mean he can react to electrical currents targeting him for what it's worth. They're wild sparks thrown around.

Unfortunately for you the Destroyer armor lacks the feats to claim damaging it would prove Sif is capable of damaging Clark the same way. If you wanna go the statement route, I can dig up statements saying Clark is stronger than a planet. Hell, he's even indirectly stated to be unkillable by way of the general in BvS claiming Doomsday was unkillable for surviving the nuke Superman also withstood.

I don't even know what "stronger than a planet" means. And some random general on Midgard saying he's unkillable because he hasn't met any alien swords (like Wonder Woman's mind you, who could kill the "unkillable" Doomsday and made her appearance minutes later, disproving this statement's validity) or doesn't have access to vibranium piercing weapons, both of which have the showings to suggest they'd be effective on Kryptonians, means nothing. The statement I provided for the Destroyer armor is a very literal, not at all metaphorical, canonical statement from the Thor writers' notes. And it's not vague like "stronger than a planet", I mean on paper, you could even argue it's Uru made since it's created by Odin personally to protect his universal treasures and it took a hit from Mjolnir without a scratch and it is what caused Fury to up his weapons game. Anyway, the Destroyer armor is "imprevious to almost all known weapons". If you think it can be penetrated by high caliber bullets, which is exactly what saying Superman is harder to pierce by feats means, I strongly disagree. The armor is clearly impossible to replicate in Marvel's earth standards, and by real life standards, you can create objects that can resist the bullets Superman has resisted. I will leave it up to the voters to say if cutting through the Destroyer isn't proof she can cut through Clark.

To a lesser degree, the same standard applies to the force field S.H.I.E.L.D. used that Sif pierced and even shut down eventually using her sword. It is designed to contain superhumans and firearm specialists. It won't be penetrated by bullets, no matter how big they are. Again, I will leave this up to the voters if you disagree. That said, keep in mind that I was always open to Superman being better than he has shown, piercing resistence wise, and like I mentioned in my last post, I don't think that anything with more force than a bullet would be able to penetrate his skin, but if you want to stick into feats so hard that tanking high caliber bullets is something you consider relevant compared to the Panther Habit, S.H.I.E.L.D.'s high tech prison cells and the Destroyer armor, I will stick to that too.

But lets say the bullets penetrate. Anything short of a kill shot will not be enough due to the healing factorprovided by the sun (provided the sun is visible) for Superman.

Which is why I made it very clear that they will be going for headshots as usual whenever they're fighting aliens and superhumans.

Conclusion

Gameplan basically remains the same; Superman will be stunned the moment he enters the field and then he will be taken out one way or another. Sif will slay the Kryptonian the same way she attacked the Destroyer, viciously landing on its neck and cutting through like butter. Clint and Natasha will be the hidden snipers from a good distance going for the head. Okoye would damage Clark from above or below, ideally she will be controlling the wakandan firepower. Fury and Hill will be ready to lay SHIELD's biggest weapons in his face as well. Keep in mind that this is going by one of the most unfortunate scenarios, where my team won't be able to gather a meaningful amout of Kryptonite - which I still don't really agree with. If they get their hands on that as well, it will be easier.

It's okay Supes, no shame in losing to a tactical super-genius, a grand military specialist, a couple of master assassins, the head of the most technologically advanced Nation on earth and a millenia old War-Goddess - you're still cooler than Thor.
It's okay Supes, no shame in losing to a tactical super-genius, a grand military specialist, a couple of master assassins, the head of the most technologically advanced Nation on earth and a millenia old War-Goddess - you're still cooler than Thor.

@webinyoureye11 you're up!

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#95 Edited by ANTHP2000 (28474 posts) - - Show Bio
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#97 Posted by RBT (29186 posts) - - Show Bio

t4v

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#98 Posted by DarkDementor101 (505 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V

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#99 Posted by CRUSHYOURENEMIES (2587 posts) - - Show Bio

this will be hilarious

t4l

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#100 Posted by APEX_pretador (21255 posts) - - Show Bio