Superman stomps, also OP made the thread with winner in mind.
Superman isn't winning anything. He is not even strong enough to beat Ocean Master. How is he beating someone FAR superior to him?
Because ABC logic is so weak. Ocean Master is from the animated universe not from the MCU, blunt force shown alone clearly has attacks that will wreck Thor.
Superman stomps, also OP made the thread with winner in mind.
Superman isn't winning anything. He is not even strong enough to beat Ocean Master. How is he beating someone FAR superior to him?
Because ABC logic is so weak. Ocean Master is from the animated universe not from the MCU, blunt force shown alone clearly has attacks that will wreck Thor.
Superman can't even destroy a building in this universe. He ain't hurting Thor.
Superman stomps, also OP made the thread with winner in mind.
Superman isn't winning anything. He is not even strong enough to beat Ocean Master. How is he beating someone FAR superior to him?
Because ABC logic is so weak. Ocean Master is from the animated universe not from the MCU, blunt force shown alone clearly has attacks that will wreck Thor.
Superman can't even destroy a building in this universe. He ain't hurting Thor.
Is it stated somewhere in the animated movie he cant building bust? those shockwaves and the surface cracking clearly look good enough to be hurting Thor with ease. Those are being dune by punching. He is also faster. His respect thread on comicvine has pretty great speed feats as well and his fight with Darkseid actually shows city block level blunt force. Hes got all what he needs to win here.
Superman stomps, also OP made the thread with winner in mind.
Superman isn't winning anything. He is not even strong enough to beat Ocean Master. How is he beating someone FAR superior to him?
Because ABC logic is so weak. Ocean Master is from the animated universe not from the MCU, blunt force shown alone clearly has attacks that will wreck Thor.
Superman can't even destroy a building in this universe. He ain't hurting Thor.
Is it stated somewhere in the animated movie he cant building bust? those shockwaves and the surface cracking clearly look good enough to be hurting Thor with ease. Those are being dune by punching. He is also faster. His respect thread on comicvine has pretty great speed feats as well and his fight with Darkseid actually shows city block level blunt force. Hes got all what he needs to win here.
Darkseid is only city block level with the Omega Force amp
Superman stomps, also OP made the thread with winner in mind.
Superman isn't winning anything. He is not even strong enough to beat Ocean Master. How is he beating someone FAR superior to him?
Because ABC logic is so weak. Ocean Master is from the animated universe not from the MCU, blunt force shown alone clearly has attacks that will wreck Thor.
Superman can't even destroy a building in this universe. He ain't hurting Thor.
Is it stated somewhere in the animated movie he cant building bust? those shockwaves and the surface cracking clearly look good enough to be hurting Thor with ease. Those are being dune by punching. He is also faster. His respect thread on comicvine has pretty great speed feats as well and his fight with Darkseid actually shows city block level blunt force. Hes got all what he needs to win here.
Darkseid is only city block level with the Omega Force amp
Anyway,
Actually in the gif Darkseid attacks the ground (true he maybe amping his fists with omega) the city block destruction is just AOE, Superman is bracing from the shock-concussive force of the blast.
I'm talking about blunt force from Supermans punches the gifs show it pretty clearly thats a lot of damage. Also Superman is faster as well.
@thewalterwhite: I feel that no-selling the town-sized Destroyer explosion should be good for that - the Destroyer beam acts like a concussive force beam like what Cyclops does in the X-Men, it's not similar to say a laser beam or heat vision
Thor tanked an concussive force attack from Malekith that overpowered his own lightning Mjolnir attack too
@rajjarsalt: I have to disagree here, its not like a physical force attack, yes its having a destructive force but its not to be counted as a physical forces, a lot of times the energy attacks are shown destroying things heat vision included which show that they seem to have a concussive affect but actually they arent "Forces" because Energy blasts/energy projection =/= physical forces its as simple as that, forces need to be exerted in contact for eg by "punching" shooting beams isn't that. A common showing for such Forces is that when exerted crack things for eg. these are some of the affect shown for AOE physical attacks.
If you look at this the skull cracking affect is explored. Like I was talking about above. Energy beams mostly have a vaporizing affect. That is consistent for energy even with the physics logic which we can not ignore.
those are dangerous because all that power is concentrated into a fist and that damages an organ, imagine the shockwaves destroying city for eg. and then using punches to pummel someone with it, the damage to the organs will be critical here like throwing up blood organ failure level critical.
I'm gonna go with Thor, barring his fight with doomsday ,an52 clark was'nt really impressive hell i don't think he'd beat dceu superman, i feel i'd call that fight an outlier tbh
@rajjarsalt: I have to disagree here, its not like a physical force attack, yes its having a destructive force but its not to be counted as a physical forces, a lot of times the energy attacks are shown destroying things heat vision included which show that they seem to have a concussive affect but actually they arent "Forces" because Energy blasts/energy projection =/= physical forces its as simple as that, forces need to be exerted in contact for eg by "punching" shooting beams isn't that. A common showing for such Forces is that when exerted crack things for eg. these are some of the affect shown for AOE physical attacks.
If you look at this the skull cracking affect is explored. Like I was talking about above. Energy beams mostly have a vaporizing affect. That is consistent for energy even with the physics logic which we can not ignore.
those are dangerous because all that power is concentrated into a fist and that damages an organ, imagine the shockwaves destroying city for eg. and then using punches to pummel someone with it, the damage to the organs will be critical here like throwing up blood organ failure level critical.
Well an explosion is basically energy + physical force, the Destroyer explosion had a huge shockwave and even its beam was generating explosions.
Energy does have that effect but at the same time, AoEs generate shockwaves that exert a thing called overpressure. Fundamentally there's no difference between getting impacted by a shockwave and a punch that is = to the shockwave hitting you. It seems you agree that shockwaves and punches are essentially the same given concentration.
For blunt force feats, Thor has tanked getting punched by Malekith, who has matched his lightning Mjolnir with a punch.
@rajjarsalt: I have to disagree here, its not like a physical force attack, yes its having a destructive force but its not to be counted as a physical forces, a lot of times the energy attacks are shown destroying things heat vision included which show that they seem to have a concussive affect but actually they arent "Forces" because Energy blasts/energy projection =/= physical forces its as simple as that, forces need to be exerted in contact for eg by "punching" shooting beams isn't that. A common showing for such Forces is that when exerted crack things for eg. these are some of the affect shown for AOE physical attacks.
If you look at this the skull cracking affect is explored. Like I was talking about above. Energy beams mostly have a vaporizing affect. That is consistent for energy even with the physics logic which we can not ignore.
those are dangerous because all that power is concentrated into a fist and that damages an organ, imagine the shockwaves destroying city for eg. and then using punches to pummel someone with it, the damage to the organs will be critical here like throwing up blood organ failure level critical.
Well an explosion is basically energy + physical force, the Destroyer explosion had a huge shockwave and even its beam was generating explosions.
Energy does have that effect but at the same time, AoEs generate shockwaves that exert a thing called overpressure. Fundamentally there's no difference between getting impacted by a shockwave and a punch that is = to the shockwave hitting you. It seems you agree that shockwaves and punches are essentially the same given concentration.
For blunt force feats, Thor has tanked getting punched by Malekith, who has matched his lightning Mjolnir with a punch.
Well an explosion is basically energy + physical force, the Destroyer explosion had a huge shockwave and even its beam was generating explosions.
Yes but it isn't concentrated into a fist the force of that level from a punch will be leagues ahead. Also in the gif Thor just walks in, I watched the movie long time back I'm thinking he walks in after the result from the shockwaves from the energy beams.
Energy does have that effect but at the same time, AoEs generate shockwaves that exert a thing called overpressure.
Those are the side effect from the explosions and tanking the energy blast directly doesn't have that, in most cases We mostly split energy and blunt force/physical durability and for good reasons. Bombs can be different but only if its explicitly stated on panel to have certain ppi for eg. it would still be less impressive than "all that power in a single punch". The beams are just energy attacks true they create a shockwave but those in the scan have the EM /light energies spreading out omnidirectinally (probably just a visual thing) the circles are clearly growing so its just a fluff way of showing an energy blast. I wouldn't argue that as a force in any thread. You could argue it as an AOE energy blast but not a physical durability feat.
Fundamentally there's no difference between getting impacted by a shockwave and a punch that is = to the shockwave hitting you. It seems you agree that shockwaves and punches are essentially the same given concentration.
Yes it is, as the punch will be concentrated and the shockwave intensities decreased further away from the source and spread over and area. A punch or a blunt force attack will do maximum damage to one area and the shockwaves shown will be resulting from the force itself so will do lesser damage to other areas. Energy beams are just attacks which melt/vaporise/disintegrate things thats how they show in comics as well. They normally do not do cracking stuff for eg.
those destroyer beams are clearly just "beams of energy" and just that. Results coming from punching/forces and the shockwaves are what needs to be countered with physical durability.
@rajjarsalt: I have to disagree here, its not like a physical force attack, yes its having a destructive force but its not to be counted as a physical forces, a lot of times the energy attacks are shown destroying things heat vision included which show that they seem to have a concussive affect but actually they arent "Forces" because Energy blasts/energy projection =/= physical forces its as simple as that, forces need to be exerted in contact for eg by "punching" shooting beams isn't that. A common showing for such Forces is that when exerted crack things for eg. these are some of the affect shown for AOE physical attacks.
If you look at this the skull cracking affect is explored. Like I was talking about above. Energy beams mostly have a vaporizing affect. That is consistent for energy even with the physics logic which we can not ignore.
those are dangerous because all that power is concentrated into a fist and that damages an organ, imagine the shockwaves destroying city for eg. and then using punches to pummel someone with it, the damage to the organs will be critical here like throwing up blood organ failure level critical.
Well an explosion is basically energy + physical force, the Destroyer explosion had a huge shockwave and even its beam was generating explosions.
Energy does have that effect but at the same time, AoEs generate shockwaves that exert a thing called overpressure. Fundamentally there's no difference between getting impacted by a shockwave and a punch that is = to the shockwave hitting you. It seems you agree that shockwaves and punches are essentially the same given concentration.
For blunt force feats, Thor has tanked getting punched by Malekith, who has matched his lightning Mjolnir with a punch.
Those are the side effect from the explosions and tanking the energy blast directly doesn't have that, in most cases We mostly split energy and blunt force/physical durability and for good reasons. Bombs can be different but only if its explicitly stated on panel to have certain ppi for eg.
Bombs are different because there is a component of blunt and energy durability. Nonetheless radiation pressure exists which just confirms that split dura isn't really much of a thing in this regard, just that energy attacks that involve light have very little to no pressure.
it would still be less impressive than "all that power in a single punch". The beams are just energy attacks true they create a shockwave but those in the scan have the EM /light energies spreading out omnidirectinally (probably just a visual thing) the circles are clearly growing so its just a fluff way of showing an energy blast. I wouldn't argue that as a force in any thread. You could argue it as an AOE energy blast but not a physical durability feat.
If it exerts a force that moves matter, then that would be physical, no?
Yes it is, as the punch will be concentrated and the shockwave intensities decreased further away from the source and spread over and area. A punch or a blunt force attack will do maximum damage to one area and the shockwaves shown will be resulting from the force itself so will do lesser damage to other areas.
In my defense I said the punch would be equal to the shockwave that actually hits the person
Energy beams are just attacks which melt/vaporise/disintegrate things thats how they show in comics as well. They normally do not do cracking stuff for eg.
those destroyer beams are clearly just "beams of energy" and just that. Results coming from punching/forces and the shockwaves are what needs to be countered with physical durability.
But the Destroyer beam is shown with cracking/pulverizing, explosiveness, shockwaves, and the like. There isn't melting. I'm not even using the beam, I'm using the explosion which in the end makes a shockwave just like all the Superman punches.
In any case, Malekith punching him should be enough since Malekith punches as hard as Thor's hits previously.
Bombs are different because there is a component of blunt and energy durability.
Not really it depends on case by case and on potency of bombs. Unless stated, implied clearly bombs wont tantamount to blunt force attacks from punches etc.
Nonetheless radiation pressure exists which just confirms that split dura isn't really much of a thing in this regard,
What radiation pressure? Unless implied clearly or stated in the panel no such thing is to be assumed what exists is what is shown on the panel and the conventional logic, people who tank large energy attacks get taken out by casual blunt force attacks all the time. Its imperative in this regard.
just that energy attacks that involve light have very little to no pressure.
Light doesn't do that in physics it doesn't just create blunt force. It can however melt/disintegrate stuff and vaporize shit.
Loading Video...
If it exerts a force that moves matter, then that would be physical, no?
The matter being hurled by an energy beam/blast is not an uncommon occurrence in fiction. It is not going to mean that its blunt force and a physical attack in nature. You have to interpret it like this - the energy blast is heating/energizing the stuff on the ground (for eg) and causing it to get disintegrated and spill out as heating causes expansion of the particles and puts them in excited state. As far is normally moving things goes like showing simply push or pull effects, normal energy/radiation alone does not do that on a macroscopic scale, contact forces do. They usually have a cracking, breaking effect. Long story short, split durability for blunt force and energy there are way too many differences to put them in the same category at all even if they look in certain effects similar on panel.
In my defense I said the punch would be equal to the shockwave that actually hits the person
Ah, ok. I still think a barrage of such punches will KO obviously not one. Thor is pretty durable.
But the Destroyer beam is shown with cracking/pulverizing, explosiveness, shockwaves, and the like. There isn't melting. I'm not even using the beam, I'm using the explosion which in the end makes a shockwave just like all the Superman punches.
The attack at its source is an energy attack, where is the cracking pulverizing part? I looked at the gif again it looked like a blast and a EM shockwave, read above I explained why this alone doesn't make it a force based attack. The very nature of the attack at its core is energy based just because it has some force like effects (which I accept even some other attacks like HV do) doesn't mean we ignore the split difference of blunt force and energy. Like I have explains there are too many differences for them to be grouped under the same category.
In any case, Malekith punching him should be enough since Malekith punches as hard as Thor's hits previously.
That's okay, punches are fair game. On what basis are you calling their punches equal if I may ask? However it wont be enough to give him the win.
Can a mod lock this? Even though I believe thor might win OP broke the rules by creating a thread with a winner in mind and is actively debating for a side in the same thread
@thewalterwhite: Actually Clark while he has good bull rushes his Actual combat Speed in this series Sucks. Literaly everyone nails him
Literally everyone? I mean "literally" thats a bit extreme, also Superman cab be tagged by slower characters, that doesn't mean he can't be fast when he wants to be. See the speed feats on his comicvine respect thread Those are pretty impressive actually. His physical strikes will be doing critical damage to Thor.
@thewalterwhite: merely a figure of speech. But yeah I know his feats a d they are horrible in the combat Speed department. They aren't even Beyond cap Actually. He dies bull rush amd fly fast but combat Speed he's pretty bad ..Also he's been KO'd by less then building level. Comic Clark totally different but this one not so much
Animated Darkseid got heavily nerfed as the animated movies progressed, in JL War he was giving the JL a hard time because they could barely even hurt or push him and suddenly in JLD Apokalypse War superman is able to do this lol
Log in to comment