MCU: T'Challa vs MCU: Matt Murdock , CW: Oliver Queen & DCEU: Bruce Wayne

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T'Challa still gets stomped

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buildhare

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If they had some melee weapons they'd have a chance but as is they aren't doing shit to the guy that can shrug off a WS punch.

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If they had some melee weapons they'd have a chance but as is they aren't doing shit to the guy that can shrug off a WS punch.

Elektra could tank hits from the Iron Fist yet she was still being staggered by Matt

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buildhare

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@buildhare said:

If they had some melee weapons they'd have a chance but as is they aren't doing shit to the guy that can shrug off a WS punch.

Elektra could tank hits from the Iron Fist yet she was still being staggered by Matt

When did she tank it? Sewer fight it one shot her, tower fight it one shot her and iirc those were the only times she was hit with it. She's durable but I don't think she and T'challa are really on the same level.

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@_kingoflatveria said:
@buildhare said:

If they had some melee weapons they'd have a chance but as is they aren't doing shit to the guy that can shrug off a WS punch.

Elektra could tank hits from the Iron Fist yet she was still being staggered by Matt

When did she tank it? Sewer fight it one shot her, tower fight it one shot her and iirc those were the only times she was hit with it. She's durable but I don't think she and T'challa are really on the same level.

in the end sewer scene she got back up and smiled

in the first sewer scene she used it as a means to get lost cause she succeeded in killing the Chaste member

I think Elektra would beat T'Challa but I guess thats just me

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buildhare

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@_kingoflatveria:

in the end sewer scene she got back up and smiled

After being one shot by it twice the third would either be an inconsistency or due to Danny not going all out yet. Given the entire fight up until that point had been her goading him into actually giving it everything I'd go with the latter.

in the first sewer scene she used it as a means to get lost cause she succeeded in killing the Chaste member

Seems unlikely, she was fine with fighting until she took that hit. Even if she was only injured having to flee isn't a good feat.

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@buildhare:

After being one shot by it twice the third would either be an inconsistency or due to Danny not going all out yet. Given the entire fight up until that point had been her goading him into actually giving it everything I'd go with the latter.

She was never oneshot by it even in the first sewer scene, she killed the Chaste member there was no reason for her to stay and fight she was in Hand Ninja mode.

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@_kingoflatveria:

She was never oneshot by it even in the first sewer scene, she killed the Chaste member there was no reason for her to stay and fight she was in Hand Ninja mode.

Yeah that doesn't really make sense. She had staggered Danny even early on and chose to press that advantage rather than run. Even after she had stealthed and Danny couldn't find her she tried to surprise attack him rather than run away, which she obviously could have;

No Caption Provided

She gets hit with the fist just after. If she was set on fighting and kept coming back before getting hit with the fist, yet immediately fled after being hit with it should be obvious she was hurt badly.

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@buildhare: Danny was not meant to be there, her job was the kill the guy and get out, she did step 1 and she used the fist for Step 2. She could also take full on swings from Jessica Jones and hardly bothered.

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@_kingoflatveria:

Danny was not meant to be there, her job was the kill the guy and get out,

And yet she kept hanging around to fight Danny even when she had fully ghosted him (in the gif), repeat what her job was again if you like but she obviously wanted to continue fighting.

she did step 1 and she used the fist for Step 2.

At this point Elektra was still essentially a mindless drone, she had no idea how important Danny would be. She had no reason to hold back or try and flee to avoid hurting him.

She could also take full on swings from Jessica Jones and hardly bothered.

JJ isn't comparable to the fist in any sense, taking hits from her isn't really worth mentioning in the scheme of things.

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Kingyang

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Does the batsuit enhance physicals? If not Bruce is not useless.

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anthp2000

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#63 anthp2000  Moderator

They can't hurt T'Challa. He just overpowers them.

Bruce has good striking, but not better than people who have already failed to cause significant damage to Super Soldiers, Ollie could barely stagger lesser superhumans, Mathew couldn't even stumble the Black Sky, someone far less tough.

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Given how Bucky could take on the group of Widow, Sharon and Tony, it's going to be a tough fight.

Daredevil => Widow.

Oliver is leagues above Sharon Carter.

Bruce is leagues above Tony.

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Team Win, everyone in the team has good skill and they are all fast in combat. No way he's beating all 3.

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anthp2000

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#66 anthp2000  Moderator

@subline said:
@anthp2000 said:

Given how Bucky could take on the group of Widow, Sharon and Tony, it's going to be a tough fight.

Daredevil => Widow.

Oliver is leagues above Sharon Carter.

Bruce is leagues above Tony.

Widow is better than any of them, and that wasn't the point I was trying to make at all. Bucky could walk through humans like nothing because they couldn't cause significant damage to him, and these guys can't either.

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SupremeGeneration

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Team, Batfodder isn't even needed

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#68  Edited By MarvelandDCfan24

Team good fight but they win more often than they'll lose but barely

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Widow is better than any of them, and that wasn't the point I was trying to make at all. Bucky could walk through humans like nothing because they couldn't cause significant damage to him, and these guys can't either.

What makes you think Widow is above Oliver? Oliver clearly has better Physicals, better Reaction Speeds and probably better Skill.

OT: After reviewing T'Challa's feats again you're probably right. They can't really hurt him so he wins.

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#71 anthp2000  Moderator

@subline said:
@anthp2000 said:

Widow is better than any of them, and that wasn't the point I was trying to make at all. Bucky could walk through humans like nothing because they couldn't cause significant damage to him, and these guys can't either.

What makes you think Widow is above Oliver? Oliver clearly has better Physicals, better Reaction Speeds and probably better Skill.

OT: After reviewing T'Challa's feats again you're probably right. They can't really hurt him so he wins.

I just can't see him replicating her better H2H feats, but let's not get off topic, team can dance around T'Challa for a while, like Nat and Sharon did to Bucky, but he'll shrug off their hits and take them, eventually.

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buildhare

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Look at all these people that can't do shit. That said T'challa doesn't need to rely on his durability, his speed and strength advantage (plus the fact that's he's extremely skilled himself) are more than enough to wreck here.

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I just can't see him replicating her better H2H feats, but let's not get off topic, team can dance around T'Challa for a while, like Nat and Sharon did to Bucky, but he'll shrug off their hits and take them, eventually.

Yeah probably, it was the feat where he tanked a Winter Soldier Metal Arm punch that made me change my mind.

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omriamar

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BP Too Strong To Fast

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#75 anthp2000  Moderator

@subline said:
@anthp2000 said:

I just can't see him replicating her better H2H feats, but let's not get off topic, team can dance around T'Challa for a while, like Nat and Sharon did to Bucky, but he'll shrug off their hits and take them, eventually.

Yeah probably, it was the feat where he tanked a Winter Soldier Metal Arm punch that made me change my mind.

I think it was implied all around that he was on equal footing with the Super Soldiers stat-wise, but also had enhansed reactions and speed. Pretty much a slightly more refined enhancement.

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Team wins, Oliver is MVP given his experience with superhumans. It will be hard to KO him but Batman and Oliver have insane striking power and can get it done eventually.

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Amcu

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T'Challa. Don't see them putting him down, and he's faster than any of them.

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depinhom

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Is this a joke?

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I think it was implied all around that he was on equal footing with the Super Soldiers stat-wise, but also had enhansed reactions and speed. Pretty much a slightly more refined enhancement.

What about Strength?

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anthp2000

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#82 anthp2000  Moderator

@subline:

I talked about this feat on my second post in this CaV:

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/mcu-cav-black-panther-gearsecond659-vs-proxima-mid-1968342/?page=2

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T'Challa hasn't done much outside of his suit to justify this. He loses.

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T'Challa loses this, but goes down swinging.

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@amcu said:

T'Challa. Don't see them putting him down, and he's faster than any of them.

Why can't they put him down? Both Bruce and Oliver have feats to suggest they can hurt him, even put him down over time. Bruce was able to tear through armor that was implied to be able to tank an explosion and Oliver punched out an amped Damien Darhk who can tank grenades. Matt lacks striking feats like these but he makes this up through his other advantages.

Individually yes he's faster than them but I don't think it makes much of a difference when Matt and Oliver have kept up and even outperformed bullet timers, Bruce is the only one lacking speed feats like these. I don't think T'Challa can keep up with three opponents at once especially since two of the team members can keep up with him just fine individually.

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Amcu

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@danieldaripper: Don't really feel like Bruce or Oliver are supposed to hit that hard. Particularly Oliver.

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This would make for a good CaV.

OT: The team can't hurt T'Challa, so I'll say him.

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@amcu said:

@danieldaripper: Don't really feel like Bruce or Oliver are supposed to hit that hard. Particularly Oliver.

Why not? Oliver hurting Damien was consistent through out the season. The grenade feat was accomplished by a much weaker totem user than Damien himself before the amp.

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@amcu said:

@danieldaripper: Don't really feel like Bruce or Oliver are supposed to hit that hard. Particularly Oliver.

Why not? Oliver hurting Damien was consistent through out the season. The grenade feat was accomplished by a much weaker totem user than Damien himself before the amp.

I just don't feel as if Oliver is supposed to be capable of putting down people that are that superhuman in durability. I know he has some nice high end feats like this but it doesn't feel consistent to me. Unless all the people he fights are all superhuman he should be one shotting everyone in his path.

In the same fight with Damien wasn't he also tanking his TK attacks? When less powerful users of the same magic have obliterated airplanes?

Seems to me like he reached a level he's not supposed to be in that fight if we use scaling. Unless you think he's like way, WAY above super soldier level.

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MilliardoPeacecraft

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haha BP has the heart shaped herb.

he is slightly less captain american level almost without the suit.

BP stomp. lock this

based on H2H combat BP outclasses Bruce in everything.

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Jagerzi

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The king stomps

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Panther dies a horrible death.

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#93  Edited By ArkhamAsylum3

@milliardopeacecraft said:

haha BP has the heart shaped herb.

he is slightly less captain american level almost without the suit.

BP stomp. lock this

based on H2H combat BP outclasses Bruce in everything.

Lol at this. Team murders him.

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ArkhamAsylum3

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This would make for a good CaV.

OT: The team can't hurt T'Challa, so I'll say him.

How can they not hurt him?

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SUNMAN

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T'Challa is far too strong and skilled he stomps.

Marvel super soldiers are far above regular humans even absurd regular superhero humans

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#96  Edited By jashro44

Technically T'challa doesn't really have the durability feats without the suit. Scaling him off of what bucky and Steve have done (which I think is fair since both Kevin Feigie and Ryan Coogler says he has physicals in the same range as the super soldiers) he should win through attrition.

Also not sure if its been considered but has anyone considered what kind of synergy this team would have? Its a random encounter and no one here has ever even met let alone worked together before. Numbers are really only an advantage if you can coordinate your attacks effectively. Otherwise they can actually turn into a disadvantage if your attacks are unorganized. And while they have teamed up before pretty much everyone here has a "lone wolf" mentality and doesn't usually play well with others the first time meeting.

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@arkhamasylum3: He walked off strikes from Bucky’s metal arm w/ and without his suit, and survived a hit from a Rhino.

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@amcu:

I just don't feel as if Oliver is supposed to be capable of putting down people that are that superhuman in durability. I know he has some nice high end feats like this but it doesn't feel consistent to me. Unless all the people he fights are all superhuman he should be one shotting everyone in his path.

Knocking out superhumans isn't something new to Oliver. He knocked out Dominators as well, Sara who Oliver is on par with was knocking out Hawk hybrids who were superhuman as well. I think he just uses strength appropriate to the situation, if he's facing a higher threat he'll go all out but if he's facing a fodder he's not gonna try as hard to waste stamina and strength.

In the same fight with Damien wasn't he also tanking his TK attacks? When less powerful users of the same magic have obliterated airplanes?

Usually when a multi-tonner hits a street leveler we take the feat at face value. We don't say Oliver can tank attacks that blow up planes but rather we take it at face value and say he can tank attacks that send him flying through multiple feet of asphalt instead, it's much more believable that way. Another example of these types of feats are Batman endures an attack by Martian Manhunter, we don't say Batman can survive city level attacks rather we say Martian Manhunter hit him hard enough to send him flying into gym equipment.

Seems to me like he reached a level he's not supposed to be in that fight if we use scaling. Unless you think he's like way, WAY above super soldier level.

It's more of a showing of his willpower, durability, and striking power.

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@arkhamasylum3: He walked off strikes from Bucky’s metal arm w/ and without his suit, and survived a hit from a Rhino.

None of these suggests the team can't hurt him all it proves is he will be able to take a lot of hits but given 2 of the members of the team are vastly more skilled than T'Challa I really don't know if he will be able to tag them.

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