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#1 Posted by The_Kidd (11956 posts) - - Show Bio
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#2 Posted by AllStarSuperman (43137 posts) - - Show Bio

The team obviously

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#3 Posted by ANTHP2000 (26800 posts) - - Show Bio

Given how Bucky could take on the group of Widow, Sharon and Tony, it's going to be a tough fight.

However, Bruce has physicals comparable to those of super soldiers and he's at least as skilled as T'Chlla if not moreso, him and Matt alone could do it.

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#4 Posted by AngelJax (11646 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: T'Challa is a good deal above Bucky so I don't see how that matters tbh

I don't see anyone on the Team having the means to manually put down a super soldier level combatant without context.

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#5 Posted by TheOneWhoPullsTheStrings (2746 posts) - - Show Bio

However, Bruce has physicals comparable to those of super soldiers and he's at least as skilled as T'Chlla if not moreso, him and Matt alone could do it.

The physicals to toss fodder and tank tough punches from superhumans you mean? Neither would be helpful here; those vibranium claws will shred him despite being able to tank those punches, and he isn't tossing T'Challa as easy as that, despite those bigger than normal physicals. So yeah, that is almost not worth bringing up in this fight.

I don't see the way that this team is beating Black Panther when it comes to both his stats, skill AND especially his gear/suit being involved.

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#6 Posted by tj849 (8569 posts) - - Show Bio

Team obliterates, Matt is not needed.

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#7 Posted by ANTHP2000 (26800 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax: He's better, but they're very close in civilian clothes, it's when Black Panther wears the suit that he has the means to take out Bucky rather easily.

@theonewhopullsthestrings: T'Challa doesn't have his suit here.

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#8 Posted by TheOneWhoPullsTheStrings (2746 posts) - - Show Bio

@theonewhopullsthestrings: T'Challa doesn't have his suit here.

I missed that. In that case, then team may prove too much then.

It was mainly the awesomeness of that suit that really put him in the win category.

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#9 Posted by TheGerudoKing (1594 posts) - - Show Bio

Seeing as how Bruce has zero feats of fighting without his gear, he goes down first and extremely hard.

Matt is highly skilled, but he doesn't punch as hard as "Winter Soldier" Bucky does with his metal arm, so he's not putting T'Challa down with his fists alone.

Don't watch Arrow consistently enough so I can't attest to Oliver's skills without his gear. But, I'd probably still go with T'Challa.

Black Panther wins decisively.

Bruce doesn't belong here either. He's out of his league and will only be a hindrance to his team.

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#10 Posted by jayc1324 (26422 posts) - - Show Bio

T'Challa one shots three times. Come on guys.

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#11 Posted by Amcu (16612 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't see them putting him down.

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#12 Posted by FirestormFate1919 (6217 posts) - - Show Bio

T'Challa's good, but he's not nearly this good, he goes down pretty hard against this squad.

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#13 Posted by RBT (27754 posts) - - Show Bio

The team obviously

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#14 Edited by ErickAgl17 (396 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a hard one, Bruce has 0 feats without his suit, he is the weakest link based on feats, Ollie and Matt however are extremely skilled on their own, Ollie Probably being MVP but they are all behind on stats.

I would say T'Challa takes it 7/10, he has way to much stats, and his h2h skills are enough to handle this 3 guys. But he would end up pretty bruised.

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#15 Posted by King_Majestros (1929 posts) - - Show Bio

T'Challa easily. He's faster, stronger, and highly more skilled than each team member. Bruce is the weakest link, then Oliver and Matt.

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#16 Posted by TheOneWhoPullsTheStrings (2746 posts) - - Show Bio

Since he doesn't have his Vibranium suit, this is just the Panther's skill and stats really. Do people forget that Oliver fought Mirakuru soldiers and the like? I think this is all being overlooked here. Maybe not enough to beat Slade outright with a lot of his gear, but with the others, seems like it should be enough.

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#17 Posted by GeorgeWBush (11816 posts) - - Show Bio

What’s Bruce doing here? Lol

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#18 Edited by deactivated-5a82516fb1df0 (36 posts) - - Show Bio

I think T'Challa is being somewhat underrated here. He contended evenly with the Winter Soldier while off his suit and even tanked a punch from his bionic arm straight to his chest. In fact, I'd argue that he would've won there if not for Bucky's bionic arm. I don't think anyone from this trio can hit nearly as hard as Bucky. While Oliver and especially Matt certainly have the skill to hang with T'Challa for a while, Bruce is the only one here who can contend with him physically as well, making him the MVP in the team. So the only possible way for the team to win here is if Bruce can act as the tank and create openings for the team to capitalise on. And even then, I'm hesitant to give team the majority here as none of them have feats of taking down super soldier level opponents in unarmed combat. So I'm gonna wait until I see the BP movie before coming to a definitive conclusion.

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#19 Edited by deactivated-5a89ca5697052 (8063 posts) - - Show Bio

T'Challa stomps.

I like how people claim that Batman is out of his league. He is like the only one could do some decent dmg here.
Oliver & Matt can't do anything.

Always the same people claiming the same type of bs.

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#20 Posted by LDM (5361 posts) - - Show Bio

T’Challa

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#21 Posted by Jooosh1996 (2737 posts) - - Show Bio

Team and its not as close as everyone seems to think lmao.

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#22 Posted by deactivated-5c8fd6cb3e4f4 (18365 posts) - - Show Bio

Team stomps.

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#23 Posted by war of light_2814 (2694 posts) - - Show Bio

Team.

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#24 Edited by TheGerudoKing (1594 posts) - - Show Bio

@ithemanwithoutfeari: it's really not bs though.

Batman doesn't have any good showings against other skilled combatants. And when he fought an opponent that clearly outmatched him in just strength alone but not skill, the parademons, he struggled heavily.

And this is considering that he had his entire gear at his disposal. In this fight with no gear, no feats with him fighting without said gear and versus an opponent that outclasses him in everyway, he's definitely the weakest link.

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#25 Posted by Lord_Titan_ (2633 posts) - - Show Bio

The team stomps him, black panther is overrated

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#26 Edited by deactivated-5a82516fb1df0 (36 posts) - - Show Bio

@thegerudoking said:

@ithemanwithoutfeari: it's really not bs though.

Batman doesn't have any good showings against other skilled combatants. And when he fought an opponent that clearly outmatched him in just strength alone but not skill, the parademons, he struggled heavily.

And this is considering that he had his entire gear at his disposal. In this fight with no gear, no feats with him fighting without said gear and versus an opponent that outclasses him in everyway, he's definitely the weakest link.

That's not true though. Bruce was able to ragdoll Parademons who were stronger than him, send them flying several yards with his kicks and even beat one up in unarmed combat. As for his durability, he was able to endure their hits and getting ragdolled by them. And I'm hoping you won't make me use the Superman feat to prove my point. A Kevlar armor doesn't protect you from blunt force damage and neither does it enhances your strength. So saying that Bruce is totally dependent on his gear is patently false.

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#27 Posted by the_wspanialy (4002 posts) - - Show Bio

Oliver and Matt have skills matching, if not surpassing, T'Challa. With Oliver and Bruce's strenght added to the mix, the team wins.

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#28 Posted by Helloman (29618 posts) - - Show Bio

The team wins.

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#29 Posted by TheGerudoKing (1594 posts) - - Show Bio

@demiurge: he never ragdolled a parademon. When he kicked it the parademon was still in complete control of his functions and was even able to stop his backwards momentum.

If you look at his warehouse scene and compare that to his fights with the parademons you can see that he was struggling heavily and the only thing the parademons have over the mercs in the warehouse is strength. They probably have about the same skill level.

And Bruce does depend on his gear a lot. In that same warehouse scene, if not for his gear he would've died with that gunshot to the back of his head.

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#30 Edited by deactivated-5a82516fb1df0 (36 posts) - - Show Bio

@thegerudoking said:

@demiurge: he never ragdolled a parademon. When he kicked it the parademon was still in complete control of his functions and was even able to stop his backwards momentum.

If you look at his warehouse scene and compare that to his fights with the parademons you can see that he was struggling heavily and the only thing the parademons have over the mercs in the warehouse is strength. They probably have about the same skill level.

And Bruce does depend on his gear a lot. In that same warehouse scene, if not for his gear he would've died with that gunshot to the back of his head.

He did ragdoll a Parademon in the rooftop scene early into the film. I'm responding from my cell right now or I could've shown you. Nevertheless, you can't deny the fact that his kicks did send the Parademons flying at least 15 ft on more than one occasion, regardless of whether or not they were in control of their functions. You also can't deny the fact that he did beat up a Parademon in unarmed combat.

As for the warehouse scene, he literally engaged more than 20 mercenaries in CQC at the same time, moments after his fight with Superman which had left him exhausted. If you think any non-enhanced street-leveler could've cleared the warehouse scene under similar circumstances w/o gear, then you couldn't be more wrong.

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#31 Edited by Dre_Savage (5508 posts) - - Show Bio

Team wins. T’Challa has the strength/durability, but let’s not forget that Arrow was going against Mirakuru soldiers and Mirakuru Slade; he also has taken quite a few shots and stabs and managed to keep on pushin’. T’Challa’s only unarmed battle was when he, Tony, Widow and Bucky were fighting in the building, right? That lasted like 30secs and showed a few cool things. But not enough to COMPLETELY wash out all that Ollie has done without arrows, PLUS adding DD (who wasn’t vastly impressive, more so in the strength dept). As people have stated, Bruce has 0 feats, but to discredit him altogether seems a bit unfair. At the very least he’s a distraction since the suit doesn’t GIVE HIM his martial arts (or agility) capabilities; he should have those regardless. Now his hit power and durability, that’s something else.

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#32 Posted by TheGerudoKing (1594 posts) - - Show Bio

@demiurge: we probably have different ideas of what ragdoll means but for me it's when someone gets completely taken over by the force of something else. Like when Hulk ragdolled Loki in Avengers. The parademons never got ragdolled by Batman where they couldn't recover after being hit or kicked.

And in the warehouse scene, Bruce didn't get shot or stabbed because he was exhausted. It was because he was careless. He was wailing on one guy when another merc walked up on him and casually shot him in the head. Then he got overwhelmed by 2 or 3 other mercs and got stabbed. He never showed signs of being exhausted.

The point is though that Bruce doesn't have any feats of fighting without his gear and he doesn't have any feats of fighting anyone in the same skill level as T'Challa.

He's out of his league in this fight by feats.

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#33 Posted by deactivated-5a82516fb1df0 (36 posts) - - Show Bio

@thegerudoking:

we probably have different ideas of what ragdoll means but for me it's when someone gets completely taken over by the force of something else. Like when Hulk ragdolled Loki in Avengers. The parademons never got ragdolled by Batman where they couldn't recover after being hit or kicked.

This is not a fair comparison. Loki was weaker than Hulk, whereas the Parademons were stronger than Bruce. And here's the feat I was talking about:

No Caption Provided

Also, I can't help but notice that you chose to completely ignore these points that I made in my earlier response to you:

Nevertheless, you can't deny the fact that his kicks did send the Parademons flying at least 15 ft on more than one occasion, regardless of whether or not they were in control of their functions. You also can't deny the fact that he did beat up a Parademon in unarmed combat.

Let me know if you'd like me to post GIFs for these feats too, in case you don't remember them.

And in the warehouse scene, Bruce didn't get shot or stabbed because he was exhausted. It was because he was careless. He was wailing on one guy when another merc walked up on him and casually shot him in the head. Then he got overwhelmed by 2 or 3 other mercs and got stabbed. He never showed signs of being exhausted.

The point is though that Bruce doesn't have any feats of fighting without his gear and he doesn't have any feats of fighting anyone in the same skill level as T'Challa.

I think it's only logical to assume that he'd be exhausted after his fight with Superman. It's not rocket science, it's logic. If you're still not convinced, then watch the Batman vs Superman fight again. You'll see that every time Clark shoved/ragdolled/hit Batman, he was grunting with pain. That fight must have taken a toll on him. He's still only human after all. I will even agree with you to some extent that he was careless in his approach, but what choice did he have? After all, he had to save Martha before the time ran out. So I think it'd be better if we don't bring up the warehouse fight anymore.

He's out of his league in this fight by feats.

Well, so far I'm the only one who has bothered to post any feats whatsoever to support his argument, so there's that.

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#34 Edited by deactivated-5a82516fb1df0 (36 posts) - - Show Bio

@dre_savage said:

Team wins. T’Challa has the strength/durability, but let’s not forget that Arrow was going against Mirakuru soldiers and Mirakuru Slade; he also has taken quite a few shots and stabs and managed to keep on pushin’. T’Challa’s only unarmed battle was when he, Tony, Widow and Bucky were fighting in the building, right? That lasted like 30secs and showed a few cool things. But not enough to COMPLETELY wash out all that Ollie has done without arrows, PLUS adding DD (who wasn’t vastly impressive, more so in the strength dept). As people have stated, Bruce has 0 feats, but to discredit him altogether seems a bit unfair. At the very least he’s a distraction since the suit doesn’t GIVE HIM his martial arts (or agility) capabilities; he should have those regardless. Now his hit power and durability, that’s something else.

Eh, that's not possible. He must have gotten some feats after appearing in two and a half movies.

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#35 Edited by TheGerudoKing (1594 posts) - - Show Bio

@demiurge: I'm not comparing strength level with Hulk and Bruce, I'm just showing what I consider to be ragdolling. Even Steve has ragdolled before better than Bruce has with kicks.

What Bruce did to the parademon was not something I consider ragdolling because it was never out of control and easily reestablished itself.

And the warehouse scene is one of only a few fighting feats we have for Bruce so we have to use it. It might be logical to assume he was exhausted but it was never stated or shown explicitly in the movie.

In fact he got shot in the head because he was focusing on one guy, punching him repeatedly. If he was taking guys out in one or two punches why keep punching the guy? He got shot because he was careless, not exhausted.

And I know the scene you're talking about where he kicks the parademon but even that wasn't ragdolling. The parademon easily caught himself and reestablished himself.

And I'm on my phone so I can't post any scans but the points I'm bringing up are in the movies, I'm not just making stuff up. It would be ridiculous to because it's easily found out if I'm lying or not.

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#36 Posted by Dre_Savage (5508 posts) - - Show Bio

@demiurge:

I can’t think of any off the top of the head, but assuming you’re right, it only adds to my claim that the team wins (and I’d add that they win rather convincingly to my argument).

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#37 Posted by lubub55 (12896 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think this is a mismatch.

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#39 Posted by mrmonster (15118 posts) - - Show Bio

Team stomps.

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#41 Posted by Amcu (16612 posts) - - Show Bio

T'Challa imo.

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#42 Posted by deltahuman (4969 posts) - - Show Bio

Team wins this.

People are disregarding Bruce because he doesn't have feats without his suit on but the Batsuit only increases his durability. The strength is fully his. So is the agility and skill. Bruce is borderline Superhuman. So is Oliver Queen as of now. Matt is not on their level physically but his skills are awesome which enabled him to battle the Black Sky who was enhanced. T'Challa could beat anyone here one vs one but team will win this after a hard fight.

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#44 Posted by Amcu (16612 posts) - - Show Bio
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#46 Posted by tj849 (8569 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly Bruce can solo

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#49 Posted by FlashingSabre (3863 posts) - - Show Bio

T'Challa baby shakes. His physicals massively outclass theirs, and he's comparably skilled.