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#1 Posted by nfactor1995 (12873 posts) - - Show Bio
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T'Challa is wearing street clothes and is unarmed. Ra's is equipped with his sword and is wearing his standard Ra's outfit. The fight takes place in the same building where T'Challa fought the re-brainwashed Winter Soldier, and they start 10 yards apart. The fight is to the death.

Who wins and why?

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#2 Posted by reaverlation (25866 posts) - - Show Bio

T'Challa

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#3 Posted by WF_Mxyzptlk (6794 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Posted by deactivated-5ba89dccd4593 (353 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Posted by Sawed_Off_It (13250 posts) - - Show Bio

Ras

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#6 Posted by BruceRogers (17297 posts) - - Show Bio

BP

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#7 Edited by LoveLessNHK (71 posts) - - Show Bio

Does anyone plan on explaining anything?

Who wins? Why? Explain, preferably with references to stats, and the feats/powerscaling (and thus feats the powerscaling came from) that the stats came from.

I mean, maybe not all of that is necessary, but why even waste anybody's time if you're too lazy to even fully type out a single characters name?

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#8 Posted by cpt_nice (9894 posts) - - Show Bio

Does anyone plan on explaining anything?

Who wins? Why? Explain, preferably with references to stats, and the feats/powerscaling (and thus feats the powerscaling came from) that the stats came from.

I mean, maybe not all of that is necessary, but why even waste anybody's time if you're too lazy to even fully type out a single characters name?

So why don't you go ahead and do said things, instead of ranting?

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#9 Edited by LoveLessNHK (71 posts) - - Show Bio

@cpt_nice

I'm just here to be entertained. I know nothing about any of these characters enough to carry a debate of any sort. I have seen the materials, but have not dissected them for details.

I do think T'Challa is faster, given he was out racing vehicles, and I don't think Ras has|

I don't recall how he fared in any fights, not that any of those details would matter anyway, since he was wearing his suit during them (as far as durability goes). Can't recall his strength either.

Idk, without his suit, he has speed, but I don't know if it's blitz levels over Ras, and Ras has gear, and is a skilled fighter. I could see Ras taking it if he can land blow before T'Challa snaps his neck and or takes Ras's sword from him and sheathes it through his heart. I'd give it to T'Challa 6-7/10.

Those numbers are completely pointless though. I'm slightly drunk, and have almost no idea what I'm talking about. I don't debate, because I'm a shit debater. I make comments. If a person is going to go so far as to be part of the debate though, to answer the thread, they should do it with a debater's mindset. Like, they should actually debate. Not all threads are created equal, some debates are heavily one sided. Still. Give an information filled answer. I feel like that's part of the rules somewhere, but who knows, I could be confusing this site with another site right now.

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#11 Posted by KingCurry30 (953 posts) - - Show Bio

@lovelessnhk: take out the F word it's against the rules

OT: Probably T'challa but I could see it going either way

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#12 Posted by Khael (15331 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Panther due to better stats

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#13 Posted by Killermovies (962 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by KingCurry30 (953 posts) - - Show Bio

@killermovies: Nah but he's new, warning him now so he won't get 'an official warning'

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#15 Edited by jashro44 (52339 posts) - - Show Bio
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#17 Posted by never give up (24994 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by Apathy121 (224 posts) - - Show Bio

Breaking even and even slightly overwhelming a bloodlusted Bucky Barnes without the Vibranium suit or gear puts T'Challa way above the scope of most CW street levelers.

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#20 Posted by DarkRaiden (15466 posts) - - Show Bio

T'Challa in a stomp

- 58 wins and counting. 3 tournaments.

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#21 Edited by cfrehse (2902 posts) - - Show Bio

Tchalla might lose ra's owned Oliver with his sword in both fights he did lose second because of a slick move by ollie

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#23 Posted by GeorgeWBush (11816 posts) - - Show Bio

Ras gets worked

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#24 Posted by lubub55 (12895 posts) - - Show Bio

Ra's stomps without much difficulty. Take away Ra's's sword to make this a more even fight.

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#25 Posted by nfactor1995 (12873 posts) - - Show Bio

@lubub55: Do you really think it would be at all debatable if both combatants were unarmed?

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#26 Posted by lubub55 (12895 posts) - - Show Bio

@nfactor1995: I would probably give it to Black Panther, but it would be a far closer match than against an armed Ra's.

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#27 Posted by Lawz (893 posts) - - Show Bio

T'Challa in an omega curb stomp. Street level fighters on the CW cannot hang with the likes of enhanced humans from the MCU. In before the hail of "bullet" time feats from Oliver that have nothing on T'Challa's feats from Civil War.

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#29 Posted by Arcus1 (27753 posts) - - Show Bio

@lubub55: Dude, his sword is the only thing giving him any sort of chance

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#30 Posted by rogueshadow (29248 posts) - - Show Bio

T'challa.

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#31 Edited by Cooldudeachyut (501 posts) - - Show Bio

Panther wins 5.5/10 due to superior feats and having the capability to fight enhanced humans. Ra's is good at using swords so that gives him an advantage here but Panther is more agile and is trained for unarmed fighting.

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#32 Posted by jashro44 (52339 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think either side stomps. With Bucky vs Ra's I give Bucky a majority since he can block Ra's sword with his bionic arm and disarm Ra's but despite my belief T'challa is more skilled he doesn't have that, which makes it a lot harder for T'challa to disarm Ra's. MCU super soldiers are stronger than someone like Ra's and can one shot but I don't think there much faster in reflexes and combat speed. If T'challa is faster than I think Ra's having a sword kind of makes up for a speed edge.

I think this could go either way.

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#33 Posted by Arcus1 (27753 posts) - - Show Bio

Would Panther's ring have any effect on Ra's sword? He was using it to mess with Bucky's arm, some sort of magnetic power?

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#34 Posted by nfactor1995 (12873 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: That scene was confusing. It seemed like T'Challa was just as confused as Bucky was, given that he gave Bucky kind of a "wtf" look.

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#35 Posted by Stormdriven (17850 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: What makes you think Ra's compares at all in reflexes or combat speed? At the very least, Bucky (who has the best reflex feats of the three super soldiers) has far an away better feats in reflexes. As far as combat speed, Ra's really only has two feats that would suggest he has fast combat speed. But he's still lacking against any of the super soldiers.

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#36 Posted by Arcus1 (27753 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: That scene was confusing. It seemed like T'Challa was just as confused as Bucky was, given that he gave Bucky kind of a "wtf" look.

Does Bucky's arm have any vibranium?

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#37 Posted by nfactor1995 (12873 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: I don't think so, but I'm not sure.

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#38 Posted by jashro44 (52339 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:

Would Panther's ring have any effect on Ra's sword? He was using it to mess with Bucky's arm, some sort of magnetic power?

I don't think the ring does anything. I think T'challa was just surprised at Bucky's strength (particularly his bionic arm). It doesn't make sense the writers of civil war would hint at something and not establish something, for a future movie they wont be writing. I'm not sure what point the script the black panther movie is at but I imagine marvel would want to keep the plot hush hush.

We'll see when T'challa's movie comes out if the ring has any powers but I think for now it makes sense to just kind of assume its a ring.

@jashro44: What makes you think Ra's compares at all in reflexes or combat speed? At the very least, Bucky (who has the best reflex feats of the three super soldiers) has far an away better feats in reflexes. As far as combat speed, Ra's really only has two feats that would suggest he has fast combat speed. But he's still lacking against any of the super soldiers.

I don't think Bucky blocking bullets with his arm is really better than Oliver's showing against Mr.Blank I think its roughly on par. In terms of your last 2 sentences I'm a little confused with what your saying. You said he has 2 feats that suggest he is fast but than say he is lacking in comparison to the super soldiers?

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#39 Posted by Arcus1 (27753 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:
@arcus1 said:

Would Panther's ring have any effect on Ra's sword? He was using it to mess with Bucky's arm, some sort of magnetic power?

I don't think the ring does anything. I think T'challa was just surprised at Bucky's strength (particularly his bionic arm). It doesn't make sense the writers of civil war would hint at something and not establish something, for a future movie they wont be writing. I'm not sure what point the script the black panther movie is at but I imagine marvel would want to keep the plot hush hush.

We'll see when T'challa's movie comes out if the ring has any powers but I think for now it makes sense to just kind of assume its a ring.

It looked like the ring was pulling the arm, iirc, I think the video's on youtube

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#40 Posted by jashro44 (52339 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:

It looked like the ring was pulling the arm, iirc, I think the video's on youtube

It doesn't look like anything is going on to me personally but I've seen this debated before. I think its best to just wait until black panther's movie comes out before we say anything for a fact:

Loading Video...

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#42 Posted by jashro44 (52339 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Wouldn't Ra's swords simply break upon impact when hit against T'Challa's claws? That's literally the only edge he had here. How is Ra's winning at all?

OP says T'challa is unarmed and wearing regular clothes.

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#43 Edited by LlehDevil (7259 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Oh... I'd still go with T'Challa due to better stats.

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#44 Edited by Arcus1 (27753 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:
@arcus1 said:

It looked like the ring was pulling the arm, iirc, I think the video's on youtube

It doesn't look like anything is going on to me personally but I've seen this debated before. I think its best to just wait until black panther's movie comes out before we say anything for a fact:

Loading Video...

2:21 he does it again, appears to make Bucky stop choking him

Idk, it's kinda unclear, and probably nothing that's actually relevant to this battle for now

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#45 Posted by jashro44 (52339 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: 2:21 he just pulled the arm from his throat (which is weird because he failed to over power Bucky's arm in the earlier scene).

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#46 Posted by Arcus1 (27753 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@arcus1: 2:21 he just pulled the arm from his throat (which is weird because he failed to over power Bucky's arm in the earlier scene).

Hence why I think it had something to do with the ring

But idk, I guess we'll find out more in the BP movie

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#47 Posted by jashro44 (52339 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:
@jashro44 said:

@arcus1: 2:21 he just pulled the arm from his throat (which is weird because he failed to over power Bucky's arm in the earlier scene).

Hence why I think it had something to do with the ring

But idk, I guess we'll find out more in the BP movie

But the ring was covered up in the second instance. I don't think that makes sense but yea we need to wait.

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#48 Posted by Stormdriven (17850 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

I don't think Bucky blocking bullets with his arm is really better than Oliver's showing against Mr.Blank I think its roughly on par.

The Mr. Blank feat is sketchy at best. Oliver turns before Mr. Blank pulls the trigger. I wouldn't consider that bullet timing, and certainly not anywhere close to Bucky actually deflecting bullets off his arm in multiple instances.

You said he has 2 feats that suggest he is fast but than say he is lacking in comparison to the super soldiers?

His fight against the assassins suggests fast combat speed, and his first fight against Oliver is supposed to as well despite it being much slower than the aforementioned. And yes, he can still be slower than the super soldiers even if he has fast combat speed.

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#49 Posted by jashro44 (52339 posts) - - Show Bio

@stormdriven:

The Mr. Blank feat is sketchy at best. Oliver turns before Mr. Blank pulls the trigger. I wouldn't consider that bullet timing, and certainly not anywhere close to Bucky actually deflecting bullets off his arm in multiple instances.

Someone posted this screen shot in another thread:

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It looks like Oliver is turning around as the bullet is fired. Either way he doesn't duck until after. I don't think this feat is any more sketchy than Bucky's feat.

His fight against the assassins suggests fast combat speed, and his first fight against Oliver is supposed to as well despite it being much slower than the aforementioned. And yes, he can still be slower than the super soldiers even if he has fast combat speed.

My bad. I thought you were saying that Ra's had 2 feats that suggests he is as fast as the super soldiers but is still lacking in feats. I see what your saying now. What feats does T'challa have that compare to what casually dodging Oliver's sword strikes on the mountain? Do you think if T'challa fought Oliver on the mountain in the same position he could maneuver through Oliver's attacks like this:

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I know Oliver wasn't a master sword fighter at this point but this is still pretty impressive. I think T'challa's combat speed might be equal because his running/movement speed is higher than Ra's and he is super human but I don't think he is so fast he can blitz Ra's which is what I was trying to say in my original post. I think Ra's can keep up and there in the same tier but because Ra's has better reach that gives him an edge. By the same token T'challa seems more agile and mobile than Ra's so maybe he could flip around him a bit so that could compensate a little for Ra's reach. But in terms of raw speed I don't see Ra's struggling to keep up.

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#50 Posted by Stormdriven (17850 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

It looks like Oliver is turning around as the bullet is fired. Either way he doesn't duck until after. I don't think this feat is any more sketchy than Bucky's feat.

The problem with that feat is Mr. Blank missed completely. Had Mr. Blank not missed or aimed for Oliver's CoM, the series would be over. The fact that Oliver ducks is irrelevant.

What feats does T'challa have that compare to what casually dodging Oliver's sword strikes on the mountain? Do you think if T'challa fought Oliver on the mountain in the same position he could maneuver through Oliver's attacks like this:

T'Challa's handling of Bucky should be more than enough to suggest being able to dodge Oliver's telegraphed sword strokes. Besides, Oliver swung with wide, sweeping strokes that were easier to maneuver around.

I think T'challa's combat speed might be equal because his running/movement speed is higher than Ra's and he is super human but I don't think he is so fast he can blitz Ra's which is what I was trying to say in my original post.

I don't think he'll blitz either, but Ra's lacks any sort of reaction feats to suggest comparable reflexes to any of the supersoldiers. Combat speed is kinda iffy, I think it's more his martial arts than anything that makes up for what he lacks in speed.

I think Ra's can keep up and there in the same tier but because Ra's has better reach that gives him an edge.

I wouldn't consider them in the same tier, but I agree the reach is a good equalizer.

By the same token T'challa seems more agile and mobile than Ra's so maybe he could flip around him a bit so that could compensate a little for Ra's reach. But in terms of raw speed I don't see Ra's struggling to keep up.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on the speed. Ra's really didn't do enough to suggest he's comparable in any speed department, and he won't be getting any more feats to speak of.