MCU T'Challa (NO Heart-Shaped Herb) vs. CW Oliver Queen

I searched this fight up on Google several days ago, and didn't find a match quite like this. If there is one, moderators may feel free to lock it down.

vs.

Rules

• Random encounter.
• No prior knowledge.
• Morals on. Oliver will kill T'Challa only if he is forced to do so. T'challa will only accept victory via submission/incapacitation or KO.
• Oliver Queen has feats from all six seasons, unless otherwise specified.
• T'Challa has the equipment shown in the above picture. Oliver's equipment will vary between the rounds. However, he has no protective gear throughout all rounds (so, as shown in the picture above).

Round One

Oliver is completely unarmed. He has to fight with his hands only, but can disarm T'Challa if he can manage it.

Round Two

Oliver has two swords. However, this is Pre-Al Sal-him training. He only has his physique, training that Malcolm gave him, and whatever hand-to-hand moves he can incorporate in his combat.

Round Three

Oliver Queen has his Season One bow (first recurve bow in the link) and two standard arrows. However, all feats from all seasons (outside of specialized equipment) will remain valid.

Honestly Oliver could take all round with 1 being the hardest.

Ollie

Ollie.

Depowered T'Challa can't contend with Ollie.

Oliver in a decent but not close fight.

Its impossible to make a case for black panther when he has basically no physical feats and only 2 fights. Depowered T'challa kind of scales off of m'baku who is a fodder wrecker with impressive strength. He doesn't have the feats to contend with Oliver.

Oliver stomps.

He could possibly scale off of Killmonger too, who was like a Frank Castle level soldier. He could have killed him but asked him to yield instead. I agree he has little feats and Oliver definitely wins but that is worth something at least.

I don't agree with scaling killmonger over Frank and vice versa. The netflix shows are treated very separately from the movies aside from the occasional reference. Killmongers only feat is his fight with T'challa so it doesn't really help T'challa out. The most we can say about there fight is they showed the precision to scratch but not kill each other when they wanted to. Other than those two fights all T'challa has are accolades which can only get him so far.

Personally I rate depowered T'challa above Diggle but below Nyssa.

Why T'Challa above Diggle? Diggle and Killmonger have about the same level of training and pedigree, when you take into account all of Dig's experience throughout the series itself and going from Black Driver > Spartan > Green Arrow. We know that he trains with Oliver on a regular basis, the showrunners even stated this. That's six years of superhero training. Surely fighting against the forces of HIVE, the Mirakuru, and the League of Assassins is at least equivalent to Erik being part of a "ghost unit." (Because I know people will bring up that a "ghost unit" is much better then the "regular special forces" that Diggle commanded.)

And then what does Erik have after his training pedigree? Nothing. Diggle fist fought 7 foot tall aliens and teams of ninja. He's a badass and has wins over two extremely noteworthy fighters now (Onyx and Black Siren). Diggle ftw, Killmonger is dead and forgotten.

@the_hajduk: LMAO Black Driver

So John curbstomps Killmonger 10/10?

John has better feats imo, but I don't see that happening if it actually goes down. I'm inclined to say it could go either way, balancing out feats and in-universe standing.

Why does baka Killmonger have better in-universe standing then SPARTAN.

@the_hajduk: I find T'challa's accolades more impressive than Diggle's. While Diggle has more showings he has one win against an established enemy after over 100 episodes. I also don't think Diggle can display the same precision with weapons Killmonger and T'challa did during there fight. T'challa is limited on showings but I think when you compare consistent showings and accolades T'challa is better.

Ollie should take all rounds handily IMO

I get why the cutting each other thing is remotely impressive, but it's really not a substitute for the kind of actual feats that Diggle has. I mean, with all the crazy made up technical knowledge that is thrown around in every Arrow training sequence, I don't see how cutting somebody with the precision to not kill them is even really relevant. What about this crazy knife shit from S1? S1 Oliver cuts Diggle here but he makes sure it's just a scratch.

Honestly I can picture Arrow trash tiers like China White and Bronze Tiger cutting somebody like that no problem... and we are so far beyond the likes of them by this point, Diggle can probably put them both to pasture at the same time.

Oliver, but it's not going to be easy.

@the_hajduk: Well Diggle in season one wasn't that impressive. He didn't have all the experience you cited previously so he doesn't have the pedigree Killmonger has at that point. Oliver was quite a good deal faster and more skilled. Its a good feat but I don't think its equivalent to what T'challa and killmonger were doing. What impresses me about Killmonger and T'challa is the fact they were doing it to each other despite them being physical equals and peers in terms of skill (like its debatable which one of them is actually better)

And I disagree with China White and Bronze tiger being trash tier. China White beat Katana who was an equal to Nyssa in season 4. Its not like Katana did much training between the season 3 flash back and season 4 either (she mostly lived in solitude). Bronze tiger was a peer to season 2 Oliver and was slicing arrows out of the air. I still view them in the same league as Nyssa.

Regardless this is all moot because we are talking about Diggle and not every fighter in the arrowverse.

@the_hajduk: Also another point I would like to make is that T'challa and killmonger were in a serious fight to the death whereas Oliver was in a training session with Diggle and they were mostly moving in a pattern. So Diggle's movements were predictable in that scene.

Oliver.

oliver wins this version of fight

Getting a gauge for Diggle's strength requires a lot of powerscaling, though. It's just the only way, there's no way around it. It doesn't mean he's less impressive, it just means he doesn't get a lot of shine. You're like DBZ fans who still don't think that Krillin and Tenshinhan ever surpassed like, Captain Ginyu.

IMO, China White is nothing to Diggle now... Nyssa would lose to Diggle too...

@the_hajduk: Powerscaling is definitely a viable tactic, and it is every bit as logical as using feats/statements if done correctly

So Dig is only one or two steps behind Oliver always.

What are you even saying?

Dig curbs Killmonger.

@the_hajduk: If Diggle had beaten those people (or people better than those people) power scaling would be reasonable but he hasn't.

I'd love to see Killmonger fight 7 foot tall aliens.

Diggle lost to a dominator where there fight was shown in the foreground. Diggle fought them when he was in the back ground but even than I don't recall him knocking a dominator out.

And honestly the Wakandain army (including M'baku) is going to be fighting outriders in infinity war. So in a couple of months we might be able to make the claim random Wakandain fodder can beat domiantors. Let alone the likes of killmonger, T'challa, and m'baku.

And in a couple of months, Diggle could get crazy fights too. We can't predict the future. But right now, Diggle curbs ;D

Dominators are crazily inconsistent

Their lowest end is bulletproof and punching Oliver over 30 feet. Then their feats only get higher.

@the_hajduk: As I said I disagree. T'challa has better accolades than Diggle and I think he's visually shown more skill than Diggle. Diggle has higher quantity feats but looking at his feats on a consistent basis T'challa is more impressive.

Was there ever a clear reason to think that T'Challa got downgraded in skill when he was depowered? I mean, I could see him having to adapt to new physicals, but I feel like people make the difference out to be more extreme than that. He's still a more skilled fighter than Bucky and at least comparable to Cap

It's worth pointing out, I think, that he seemed to have had an opening against Kilmonger in their first fight (he had him down and told him to yield), he just didn't take it. T'Challa was not looking to hurt Eric, he was conflicted going into that fight, and imo it showed. When they later fought (both with the Herb), T'Challa outskilled him, though they were still clearly very close. This time around though, T'Challa was less reserved about hurting Eric.

Now, Ollie still wins, but I just wanted to throw that out somewhere

I agree with this. Some people have pointed out before that some moves he does while on the herb he can't do as a normal human but it still takes massive skill to hang with Cap.

Yeah, that's probably the main difference, and I can see that playing a role, but I think that can be taken into account without outright disregarding everything he did with the herb

@arcus1: It was also stated the herb gives the black panther super human instincts.

Oliver.

Oliver should honestly take all 3 rounds.

I mean, there was a reason why the search results show up nothing and that this hasn't been done before.

Ollie comfortably

T'Challa

Ollie wins all rounds.

Mismatch. T'Challa doesn't stand a chance.

I don't know why you posted that... Nobody is lowballing T'Challa, he legitimately doesn't have feat's to contend with Oliver while depowered.

@danieldaripper: Not having feats didn't stop that thug from contending lol