MCU Surtur vs BOBF Luke Skywalker(Canon)

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nassergrant19

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Surtur

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Luke Skywalker

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They start 30ft apart on Tython

Surtur starts off at full size

Disney Canon Star Wars

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Gaoron

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Surtur stomps.

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frozen

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#4 frozen  Moderator

Luke stomps.

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frozen

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#5 frozen  Moderator

@gaoron said:

Surtur stomps.

Pre ESB Luke already has a small island level AP feat. BOBF Luke scales far above that. And scales above Vader who in turn is stronger than ISDs AP. How does Surtur stand a chance?

Luke blitzes and ragdolls.

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mr-yes

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Luke

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Gaoron

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@eredin12: Vader clearly used TP on it not TK. "Vader bends monster to his will" aka mind controls it.

Comparing Summa Verminoth to Surtur based on size alone doesn't matter. It's not size that makes Surtur impressive, it's his feats. It's him vaporizing entire mountain ranges with mere shockwave while no selling said shockwave himself and of course busting entire asteroid Asgard was in. I don't see Luke hurting someone on this tier at all... canon Luke at least.

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Ajak_XV

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#9  Edited By Ajak_XV

Luke blitzes with his peak human+ combat speed

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#10 frozen  Moderator

@ajak_xv said:

Luke blitzes with his peak human+ combat speed

Microseconds feel like hours for AOTC Anakin. Luke scales above this by orders of magnitude.

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macattack1

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#11  Edited By macattack1

Surtur one shots. Luke has no feats near this level.

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#12 frozen  Moderator

Surtur one shots. Luke has no feats near this level.

Pre ESB Luke has a verified small island feat. Luke as of BoBF is massively above.

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macattack1

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#13  Edited By macattack1

@frozen: what feat? Sounds like a massive outlier if that’s the case. Luke in ESB struggled to lift pebbles and was overwhelmed by Vader throwing a few small objects at him. But now Luke before that point is already island level? Lol

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Gaoron

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@frozen: Not nearly enough even if true.

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frozen

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#15 frozen  Moderator

@frozen: what feat? Sounds like a massive outlier if that’s the case. Luke in ESB struggled to lift pebbles and was overwhelmed by Vader throwing a few small objects at him. But now Luke before that point is already island level? Lol

Shaking an ISD feat. Luke in ESB just didn't believe in himself. It was never a case of never having the power.

Luke scales above Vader who is stated to be stronger than an ISDs. ISDs can obliterate countries and continents. Surtur gets stomped.

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kataraaaa

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Luke

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heiqn

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Luke scales someone who beat Surtur+ tier character, effortlessly.

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macattack1

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#20  Edited By macattack1

@frozen: Luke has no other feats on that level, which is the definition of an outlier. And even if we take it at face value, it has long been established in Star Wars that force user can sometimes tap into their true potential, for example during times of great emotion. Luke accidentally shaking an ISD once does not mean he can call upon that sort of power at will. He never has done, even post ROTJ. Show me any post ROTJ feats from Luke that shows he is capable of calling upon that sort of power when he chooses?

Vague and unproven analogy’s like ‘Vader is stronger than an ISD’ mean very little without evidence for it, which there isn’t, let alone extrapolating such statements to Luke.

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heiqn

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#21  Edited By heiqn

@macattack1: Vader didn't beat Summa with accidentally tapping into his true potential, he effortlessly hand-waved it. Combine this scaling with Luke's pre ESB feat and it becomes usable.

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macattack1

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#22  Edited By macattack1

@heiqn: that was a TP feat. There is no evidence that the size of the creature dictates how hard it is to TP, so Vader overpowering it in that way doesn’t scale him to Summas size.

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Gaoron

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@eredin12 said:

@gaoron:

@eredin12: Vader clearly used TP on it not TK. "Vader bends monster to his will" aka mind controls it.

He used both actually. He first slammed it down and overpowered it,

Nowhere was that shown in the comic and usually when someone uses TK in SW comics it is signaled by an aura around the hand of force user or TK lines around the lifted object/person/creature. When Sidious fought the same monster in the same comic there actually were TK outlines present, in Vader's case there weren't any signs of TK.

He cannot instantly use TP like that as he has shown before.

Why wouldn't he? Especially on a mindless wild beast?

Note that " Vader bends monster to his will" part comes after full stop, Before that, we are told that monster is no match for him.

Yeah, he's no match because Vader can mind control him with the force.

This is also consistent with him being confirmed to be more powerful than Star Destoryers:

Hyperbole and figure of speech. No different than "The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force" from the movies. Unless you genuinely think Lucas had planet busting Vader in mind when writing that line...

Comparing Summa Verminoth to Surtur based on size alone doesn't matter. It's not size that makes Surtur impressive, it's his feats. It's him vaporizing entire mountain ranges with mere shockwave while no selling said shockwave himself and of course busting entire asteroid Asgard was in. I don't see Luke hurting someone on this tier at all... canon Luke at least.

I agree that feats are most important, but why would that be above weaker monsters punching through star destroyer? Star Destroyer have consistent country level feats and they can tank shots from each other

I mean that's what? Small island level? Divided by 3because it took 3 shots to cause that damage, it's not impressive compared to Surtur.

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Alphamon

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Probably surtur, though they both might die so eh

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destinyman75

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@frozen: When Luke gets country level feats let us know cause he's getting squished like a bug here unless he runs

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frozen

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#28 frozen  Moderator
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nassergrant19

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Supreme101

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Like scales to Vader who ripped open the force and tanked lightning from it. He slams badly

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w3b

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Luke blitzes and ragdolls

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Hmm, I wonder where the blitzing & ragdolling was here


Luke blitzes and ragdolls

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good time to use that island level force power…. Or a bone works just as well


Luke blitzes and ragdolls

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Apparently a stone is a sufficient alternative to the force

Luke blitzes and ragdolls

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Luke blitzes and ragdolls

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Ok, how tough is this gate?

Luke blitzes and ragdolls
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I mean, he didn’t even use the force to push a button

As far as I’m aware, luke is already on vaders level by this point, yet when confronted with mortal peril, he chose to not use the force to save his life, instead choosing to utilize what was around him, almost as if out of desperation.

Make it make sense to me.

Heres what lucasfilm themselves have to say regarding canon

… the six 'Star Wars' episodes, and the many hours of content he(George Lucas) developed and produced in 'Star Wars: The Clone Wars'. These stories are the immovable objects of 'Star Wars' history, the characters and events to which all other tales must align.

If Luke could ragdoll surtur, nothing regarding the films makes sense anymore

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nassergrant19

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ODIN619360

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@frozen: I Cannot see this Surtur tagging Luke, but I cannot see this Luke effectively taking down Surtur.

What would Luke best offensive strategy be?

I get his speed and reaction time are insane.

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#34 frozen  Moderator
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americanspeeddemon

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@frozen: While Luke did unintentionally shake a star destroyer he has never shown the ability to consciously exert a similar amount of power.

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#37 frozen  Moderator

@frozen: While Luke did unintentionally shake a star destroyer he has never shown the ability to consciously exert a similar amount of power.

ESB Luke can't sure. Luke 6 years after ESB who is massively more powerful and masterful would be able to.

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americanspeeddemon

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@frozen: What makes you think Master Luke could do it?

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#39 frozen  Moderator

@frozen: What makes you think Master Luke could do it?

There's no logical reason he wouldn't be able to. A younger inferior ESB Luke did it under rage. Luke 6 years on is far more powerful and masterful. It stands to reason he can perform a feat his younger inexperience self did under his own power.

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americanspeeddemon

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@frozen: I think Luke probably tapped into what is near his full potential for the feat. I haven't seen anything to state he could consciously pull a feat like this. Even still in the actual feat he only exerted a small amount of force on his actual target so directing that amount of force would mean he have to do more than just replicating that particular feat.

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#41 frozen  Moderator

@frozen: I think Luke probably tapped into what is near his full potential for the feat. I haven't seen anything to state he could consciously pull a feat like this. Even still in the actual feat he only exerted a small amount of force on his actual target so directing that amount of force would mean he have to do more than just replicating that particular feat.

Luke's full potential in canon is stated to be equal to Anakin's twice in canon. Anakin at full potential is Mortis Anakin who is universal tier and can ragdoll The Ones and replace The Father. So shaking a star destroyer is nowhere near his full potential. Luke's full potential is beyond Sheev, who can electrocute a fleet of tens of thousands of ISDs. Shadow of The Sith set 10ish years before TFA states that Luke never reached his full potential.

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americanspeeddemon

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@frozen: What's the canon source for universal chosen one?

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#43 frozen  Moderator

@frozen: What's the canon source for universal chosen one?

The fact that he can replace The Father. But even if we go along with the idea that he isn't, I hope you would at least think The Ones are more powerful than shaking a star destroyer...

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americanspeeddemon

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@frozen: Sure. Either way my point was that Luke used an amount of his potential more than he ever consciously has shown to achieve.

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#45  Edited By frozen  Moderator
@americanspeeddemon said:

@frozen: Sure. Either way my point was that Luke used an amount of his potential more than he ever consciously has shown to achieve.

Not really though? Shadow of Sith author said that he is the most powerful person in the galaxy, which scales him over Zombie Sheev. Zombie Sheev in his journals (Secrets of The Sith) states that TLJ Luke possess power which threatens him. Sheev is way above shaking ISD level.

There's nothing to suggest that he tapped into his potential in some oneness moment when he shook the ISD. If there is a statement then fair enough but nothing points to that. Its is applicable power which comes out when he enters an enraged state. We've seen it happen before.. when he used TK on Grand Inquisitor or when he was rage amped against Vader. It's just another example of raw power unleashing.

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w3b

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@eredin12:

This has not been thing for more than 10 years. It was thing long before Disney, back when entire SW, Legends included, was one universe but now such hierarchy does not exist any longer, both Chee and Martin have said as much. All sources are equally canonical:

my quote is from April of 2014, so you are wrong.

Lucasfilm made that statement stating the canon is the films & tcw, & that moving on from that point, the storytelling will be connected, unlike what legends was.

So there’s no squirming around the stuff we see onscreen. Even in kenobi, neither Vader or kenobi was portrayed as anything like what you would have me believe.

Im sure everything is canon, storytelling wise. Because that’s what storytellers care about. Stop using their words as if they are thinking about feats

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w3b

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@eredin12:

Vader does not really have any low showings in Kenobi

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nassergrant19

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