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#1 Posted by GeorgeWBush (10609 posts) - - Show Bio

Davos vs. Season 2 Matt

H2H only

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VS

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#2 Posted by imagein (847 posts) - - Show Bio

If Matt has his suit, he wins due to added durability to dampen blows so he can counter attacks easier. His senses are a plus too, but they won't tilt the fight in his favor alone. If not, the Steel Serpent (who was said to be Iron Fist's equal skill wise without chi) wins.

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#3 Posted by GeorgeWBush (10609 posts) - - Show Bio

up

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#4 Edited by bflynn316 (2643 posts) - - Show Bio

Davos was tearing through Hand ninjas like they were fodder. Matt doesn't even take on regular gangsters and bikers that easily. Davos should stomp here due to better skill and better physicals, despite Matt's suit.

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#5 Posted by imagein (847 posts) - - Show Bio

@bflynn316: you know what...you're right. Even with the added durability of the suit, Davos is still too skilled.

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#6 Posted by AngelJax (10957 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, Matt is kinda out of his league

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#7 Edited by nickzambuto (29289 posts) - - Show Bio

That's Davos?

Wow lol

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#8 Posted by deactivated-5a89ca5697052 (8063 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Matt should win this.

Davos is more skilled, but Matt has a huge durability advantage with his suit.

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#9 Posted by mrmonster (12257 posts) - - Show Bio

Davos

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#10 Posted by Komboing (1134 posts) - - Show Bio

Davos fairly easily

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#11 Posted by DSTREET45 (5126 posts) - - Show Bio

Even if Davos wins I doubt it would be as easily as people are saying here.

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#12 Posted by AngelJax (10957 posts) - - Show Bio

Even if Davos wins I doubt it would be as easily as people are saying here.

Why do you think so?

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#13 Edited by HeroUp2112 (17392 posts) - - Show Bio

Davos wins, but like Dstreet said. I don't think it would be as easy as people are saying.

Danny would win too, obviously, but it would be no cake walk. Matt can just take too much punishment.

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#14 Edited by DSTREET45 (5126 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax: Based on what I read so far people are giving it to Davos because he fought the Hand pretty easily while Matt had more trouble against lower level fodder. However by the end of the season Matt was also clearing through Hand ninjas with ease and, for the most part, went toe to toe with Nobu despite being shot in the shoulder earlier (though I'm sure the suit reduced the impact.

Davos was also mid-diffed by Danny (TBF I think his mindset may have affected his fighting) and had a harder time against Bakuto's guards than he did so I wouldn't put him around Danny's level. And if I'm being honest I don't think Danny (at normal levels) is far ahead of Matt.

Add Matt's pain tolerance, and striking power (sent full grown men flying, broke a 2x4 in half before it could hit him) and I think an argument could be made for Matt with or without his suit.

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#15 Posted by Arcus1 (27276 posts) - - Show Bio

Davos did nothing to indicate he could take Matt easily.

Matt had trouble taking on multiple Hand ninjas at once because their stealth techniques countered his senses. By the end of the season, he was clearing through them no problem

By statements, Davos is pretty close to Danny, but by feats, he's definitively inferior to Danny.

In theory, Davos has the potential to win, but Matt has the actual showings to win (and there's been no implication that Davos should be significantly above Matt either)

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#16 Posted by deactivated-5bb6a6f86dc65 (4972 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt, but barely.

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#17 Posted by Gotoucanario (2888 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil slaugtherhouse

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#18 Edited by FirestormFate1919 (5990 posts) - - Show Bio

I also think people need to keep in mind Matt was fighting a different Hand faction than Danny/Davos were, and a clearly superior one at that. The Hand Ninjas Matt fought seemed substantially better than the ones Bakuto was in charge of (especially since the ones being fodderized were only recruits).

I think they might be close in skill, but Matt's suit certainly gives him the win.

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#19 Posted by nfactor1995 (12675 posts) - - Show Bio

I also think people need to keep in mind Matt was fighting a different Hand faction than Danny/Davos were, and a clearly superior one at that. The Hand Ninjas Matt fought seemed substantially better than the ones Bakuto was in charge of (especially since the ones being fodderized were only recruits).

I think they might be close in skill, but Matt's suit certainly gives him the win.

Is this conjecture or is this stated in the show explicitly?

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#20 Posted by Number1Boss (197 posts) - - Show Bio

Davos, but he's not stomping Matt or anything.

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#21 Posted by Arcus1 (27276 posts) - - Show Bio

Come on people, there's no sound reason to say that Davos stomps Matt, heck there's barely any reason to say he beats Matt

@firestormfate1919 said:

I also think people need to keep in mind Matt was fighting a different Hand faction than Danny/Davos were, and a clearly superior one at that. The Hand Ninjas Matt fought seemed substantially better than the ones Bakuto was in charge of (especially since the ones being fodderized were only recruits).

I think they might be close in skill, but Matt's suit certainly gives him the win.

Is this conjecture or is this stated in the show explicitly?

Never stated explicitly, but the ninjas Matt fought were resurrected ones. At the compound Danny and Davos were fighting some guards but also some students

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#22 Posted by Sy8000 (34490 posts) - - Show Bio

Davos probably without much effort.

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#23 Posted by Arcus1 (27276 posts) - - Show Bio

Davos probably without much effort.

What did he ever do to say he can take Matt without much effort?

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#24 Posted by nfactor1995 (12675 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1:

Never stated explicitly, but the ninjas Matt fought were resurrected ones. At the compound Danny and Davos were fighting some guards but also some students

I don't remember this being stated either, but I might be forgetting. Quote or confirmation?

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#25 Posted by Arcus1 (27276 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1:

Never stated explicitly, but the ninjas Matt fought were resurrected ones. At the compound Danny and Davos were fighting some guards but also some students

I don't remember this being stated either, but I might be forgetting. Quote or confirmation?

Umm I remember when they were doing the autopsy on one of the Hand ninjas, they talked about how an autopsy had already been done or something along those lines, I can try to find which episode that was

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#26 Posted by the_real_seamAn (2039 posts) - - Show Bio

I really hated how the Hand was portrayed in Iron Fist. The people that they were fighting weren't the Hand ninjas that DD was fighting, they just seemed like kids off the street.

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#27 Edited by Comickidd77 (463 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: I just thought it was simply implied that these were lesser hand ninjas seeing as how half of them were recruited kids that were used for inflitertration not combat. The hand under bakuto for the most part were brainwashed didn't seem to know what they stood for. Heck look at Coleen she thought the hand was good. The hand in daredevil clearly knew what they were about and knew exactly what they were doing and why

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#28 Posted by Arcus1 (27276 posts) - - Show Bio

I really hated how the Hand was portrayed in Iron Fist. The people that they were fighting weren't the Hand ninjas that DD was fighting, they just seemed like kids off the street.

There was a mix, there were guards and such who would've been, in theory, full hand soldiers. But logically, they've gotta get new people from somewhere

@arcus1: I just thought it was simply implied that these were lesser hand ninjas seeing as how half of them were recruited kids that were used for inflitertration not combat. The hand under bakuto for the most part were brainwashed didn't seem to know what they stood for. Heck look at Coleen she thought the hand was good. The hand in daredevil clearly knew what they were about and knew exactly what they were doing and why

They were definitely different factions

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#29 Posted by deactivated-5a89ca5697052 (8063 posts) - - Show Bio

I really hated how the Hand was portrayed in Iron Fist. The people that they were fighting weren't the Hand ninjas that DD was fighting, they just seemed like kids off the street.

100% agree.

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#30 Edited by deactivated-5a89ca5697052 (8063 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt would win everytime, in some good fights.

But Davos would make him work for it everytime as well.

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#31 Posted by Sy8000 (34490 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:
@highaccuser said:

Davos probably without much effort.

What did he ever do to say he can take Matt without much effort?

Fighting the Hand at the compound is a much better fodder feat than anyone managed in Daredevil except maybe all the Hand on the rooftop but everything got weird by that fight.

I misremembered how good Davos was compared to Danny when I posted that and Danny did pretty easily when he tried. Maybe not a stomp but Davos is still superior.

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#32 Posted by Ready_4_Madness (13302 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt

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#33 Posted by Arcus1 (27276 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:
@highaccuser said:

Davos probably without much effort.

What did he ever do to say he can take Matt without much effort?

Fighting the Hand at the compound is a much better fodder feat than anyone managed in Daredevil except maybe all the Hand on the rooftop but everything got weird by that fight.

I misremembered how good Davos was compared to Danny when I posted that and Danny did pretty easily when he tried. Maybe not a stomp but Davos is still superior.

Matt could clear though Hand just fine, and he's got way better physicals than anything Davos has demonstrated, plus feats of actually beating notable opponents like Nobu. Davos is good, but he's no Danny, as their fight made pretty clear

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#34 Posted by rogueshadow (28631 posts) - - Show Bio
@arcus1 said:
@comickidd77 said:

@arcus1: I just thought it was simply implied that these were lesser hand ninjas seeing as how half of them were recruited kids that were used for inflitertration not combat. The hand under bakuto for the most part were brainwashed didn't seem to know what they stood for. Heck look at Coleen she thought the hand was good. The hand in daredevil clearly knew what they were about and knew exactly what they were doing and why

They were definitely different factions

I actually think it's possible, if not likely, that some of the students were being trained to become Hand Ninja we saw in DDS1, like the teenager Matt fought in his apartment. They would be different factions, but working under the same banner. Especially talented students like Colleen (and maybe Darryl)would be put in positions of more authority rather than used as foot-soldiers.

How Gao factors in considering that Nobu seemed unaware that she was a rogue element of the Hand, I really don't know. All I can think is that he was either completely unaware of Gao being an enemy of the Hand or he was complicit in her proceedings and it was some sort of trick to throw Kingpin off-target (he thought he was taking out the Hand by killing Nobu when Gao was really in charge?). Which would debunk the initial theory concerning the students.

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#35 Posted by Arcus1 (27276 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:
@comickidd77 said:

@arcus1: I just thought it was simply implied that these were lesser hand ninjas seeing as how half of them were recruited kids that were used for inflitertration not combat. The hand under bakuto for the most part were brainwashed didn't seem to know what they stood for. Heck look at Coleen she thought the hand was good. The hand in daredevil clearly knew what they were about and knew exactly what they were doing and why

They were definitely different factions

I actually think it's possible, if not likely, that some of the students were being trained to become Hand Ninja we saw in DDS1, like the teenager Matt fought in his apartment. They would be different factions, but working under the same banner. Especially talented students like Colleen (and maybe Darryl)would be put in positions of more authority rather than used as foot-soldiers.

How Gao factors in considering that Nobu seemed unaware that she was a rogue element of the Hand, I really don't know. All I can think is that he was either completely unaware of Gao being an enemy of the Hand or he was complicit in her proceedings and it was some sort of trick to throw Kingpin off-target (he thought he was taking out the Hand by killing Nobu when Gao was really in charge?). Which would debunk the initial theory concerning the students.

Some of them certainly could've been being groomed for positions like that

To be fair, we don't know for sure if Gao was a rogue element or if Bakuto was actually a rogue element. Honestly, I'd be more inclined to think Bakuto had gone more off course than Gao, considering Gao's affiliation with Nobu and the Black Sky, but hard to tell

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#36 Posted by rogueshadow (28631 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:
@rogueshadow said:
@arcus1 said:
@comickidd77 said:

@arcus1: I just thought it was simply implied that these were lesser hand ninjas seeing as how half of them were recruited kids that were used for inflitertration not combat. The hand under bakuto for the most part were brainwashed didn't seem to know what they stood for. Heck look at Coleen she thought the hand was good. The hand in daredevil clearly knew what they were about and knew exactly what they were doing and why

They were definitely different factions

I actually think it's possible, if not likely, that some of the students were being trained to become Hand Ninja we saw in DDS1, like the teenager Matt fought in his apartment. They would be different factions, but working under the same banner. Especially talented students like Colleen (and maybe Darryl)would be put in positions of more authority rather than used as foot-soldiers.

How Gao factors in considering that Nobu seemed unaware that she was a rogue element of the Hand, I really don't know. All I can think is that he was either completely unaware of Gao being an enemy of the Hand or he was complicit in her proceedings and it was some sort of trick to throw Kingpin off-target (he thought he was taking out the Hand by killing Nobu when Gao was really in charge?). Which would debunk the initial theory concerning the students.

Some of them certainly could've been being groomed for positions like that

To be fair, we don't know for sure if Gao was a rogue element or if Bakuto was actually a rogue element. Honestly, I'd be more inclined to think Bakuto had gone more off course than Gao, considering Gao's affiliation with Nobu and the Black Sky, but hard to tell

Given that Gao is almost definitely the Crane Mother, which has pretty much a certainty in my mind for ages and was further cemented by Iron Fist and her now established connection with Davos, I'm convinced that she is the rogue element, not Bakuto. I think she genuinely isn't with the Hand.

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#37 Posted by Arcus1 (27276 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:
@rogueshadow said:
@arcus1 said:
@comickidd77 said:

@arcus1: I just thought it was simply implied that these were lesser hand ninjas seeing as how half of them were recruited kids that were used for inflitertration not combat. The hand under bakuto for the most part were brainwashed didn't seem to know what they stood for. Heck look at Coleen she thought the hand was good. The hand in daredevil clearly knew what they were about and knew exactly what they were doing and why

They were definitely different factions

I actually think it's possible, if not likely, that some of the students were being trained to become Hand Ninja we saw in DDS1, like the teenager Matt fought in his apartment. They would be different factions, but working under the same banner. Especially talented students like Colleen (and maybe Darryl)would be put in positions of more authority rather than used as foot-soldiers.

How Gao factors in considering that Nobu seemed unaware that she was a rogue element of the Hand, I really don't know. All I can think is that he was either completely unaware of Gao being an enemy of the Hand or he was complicit in her proceedings and it was some sort of trick to throw Kingpin off-target (he thought he was taking out the Hand by killing Nobu when Gao was really in charge?). Which would debunk the initial theory concerning the students.

Some of them certainly could've been being groomed for positions like that

To be fair, we don't know for sure if Gao was a rogue element or if Bakuto was actually a rogue element. Honestly, I'd be more inclined to think Bakuto had gone more off course than Gao, considering Gao's affiliation with Nobu and the Black Sky, but hard to tell

Given that Gao is almost definitely the Crane Mother, which has pretty much a certainty in my mind for ages and was further cemented by Iron Fist and her now established connection with Davos, I'm convinced that she is the rogue element, not Bakuto. I think she genuinely isn't with the Hand.

I'm not all that familiar with Iron Fist lore, so you could be right

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#38 Posted by Black_Arrow (10126 posts) - - Show Bio

The ninja Hands in Daredevil were a strike force, so they are probably better than the people that appeared in Iron fist. Not only on that but It was said that they have been resurrected, so while they look like really young they could be much older, like what happened with Harold Meachum that he stopped aging once the treament was done to him, so this means that they are probably far more experienced than the students in Iron Fist.

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#39 Posted by nickzambuto (29289 posts) - - Show Bio

I really hated how the Hand was portrayed in Iron Fist. The people that they were fighting weren't the Hand ninjas that DD was fighting, they just seemed like kids off the street.

A major plot point in DD was how the Hand recruits child soldiers young and brainwashes them into loyalty for life. In Iron Fist we merely saw that process first hand.

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#40 Posted by rogueshadow (28631 posts) - - Show Bio

The ninja Hands in Daredevil were a strike force, so they are probably better than the people that appeared in Iron fist. Not only on that but It was said that they have been resurrected, so while they look like really young they could be much older, like what happened with Harold Meachum that he stopped aging once the treament was done to him, so this means that they are probably far more experienced than the students in Iron Fist.

I definitely don't think that every Hand foot-soldier goes through the same process as Nobu and Harold. They'd been resurrected, but I think that was it. Bakuto said the gift given to Meachum is one they give to very few.

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#41 Posted by Comickidd77 (463 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: I never got the whole gao is a rogue hand faction. I always thought bakuto said that to gain ironist trust and to make him and his hand faction seem good when in reality that wasn't true. also Colleen brings it up as well about the rogue faction part, but she had been lied to and believed bakuto at face value on everything. Also didn't bakuto say something after ironist found out bakuto was full of it along the lines of "she's won't work with us, but she is to smart to go against us" or something like that.

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#42 Posted by nfactor1995 (12675 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: Oh true, yeah I remember that scene. But do you think that applies to ALL of the Hand ninjas DD was fighting? I guess it could, but idk.

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#43 Posted by RBT (25232 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt

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#44 Posted by rogueshadow (28631 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: I never got the whole gao is a rogue hand faction. I always thought bakuto said that to gain ironist trust and to make him and his hand faction seem good when in reality that wasn't true. also Colleen brings it up as well about the rogue faction part, but she had been lied to and believed bakuto at face value on everything. Also didn't bakuto say something after ironist found out bakuto was full of it along the lines of "she's won't work with us, but she is to smart to go against us" or something like that.

If Gao isn't a rogue faction then I don't see why Bakuto would have apprehended her and tried to absorb her Rand accounts/assets into his South American enterprise.

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#45 Posted by Lord_Adamantium (425 posts) - - Show Bio

Daredevil wins. This guy was not impressive at all.

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#46 Edited by deactivated-5ad4cb41c7fb8 (3527 posts) - - Show Bio

DD. More skilled, better physicals, and gear.

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#47 Edited by Arcus1 (27276 posts) - - Show Bio

@nfactor1995: I mean I guess we can't know for sure, but as far as I know the one they examined was just a random ninja, no one special

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#48 Posted by Black_Arrow (10126 posts) - - Show Bio

@black_arrow said:

The ninja Hands in Daredevil were a strike force, so they are probably better than the people that appeared in Iron fist. Not only on that but It was said that they have been resurrected, so while they look like really young they could be much older, like what happened with Harold Meachum that he stopped aging once the treament was done to him, so this means that they are probably far more experienced than the students in Iron Fist.

I definitely don't think that every Hand foot-soldier goes through the same process as Nobu and Harold. They'd been resurrected, but I think that was it. Bakuto said the gift given to Meachum is one they give to very few.

Maybe they are not as resilient both Nobu or Meachum (that can revive from many thing) but It could mean that they stopped aging and maybe it's an indication on how elite they are supposed to be, since not many people in the Hand have that ability. We will learn more about this on Defenders but I speculate something like that.

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#49 Edited by AlphaQ (5753 posts) - - Show Bio

Matt wins.

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#50 Posted by g2_ (11060 posts) - - Show Bio

Davos is lame, but he wins.