MCU Shang Chi VS CW Green Arrow

VS

R1 : H2H

R2 : Standard Gear ( Rings for Shang)

@the_magister@frozen

Oof. Hype V Arrow God. I can’t compute.

Shang was able to dodge the cones from Wenwu's rings, which seemed to move at mach speeds. We could scale him to Wenwu's reaction time given he showed comparable speed in combat. Wenwu was arrow timing an entire army and reacted to bullets IIRC (though he could have aim blocked.. I'd have to re-watch).

@frozen: who wins in H2H?

Oliver solos their entire family. He is a God compared to them

@mexcomics2078: Thanks for the tag

Going with Shang-Chi, but like with all other battles involving him; there's some room for interpretation with his feats

Shang-chi stomp. Oliver sucks, he's pure fodder by his side.

Oliver stomps H2H while Shang-Chi stomps with Ten Rings.

Shang chi stomps

Shang-Chi wrecks both rounds.

Ollie stomps R1(assuming they fight as pictured).

R2 is a toss-up. Shang Chi isn't an arrow timer but his damage output is insane. Whoever hits first really. But given Ollie's draw speed and Shang Chi's lack of good reflex feats, I'll go with Oliver.

@rbt: I'm curious why you don't think he is an arrow timer?

He was dodging Wenwu's cones, which were creating sonic booms. He also scales to Wenwu's speed, and Wenwnu arrow timed an entire army. NWName took a look at that feat and has it as legit arrow timing.

@frozen:

I'm curious why you don't think he is an arrow timer?

He never dodged anything as fast as arrows, let alone Oliver's arrows.

He was dodging Wenwu's cones, which were creating sonic booms.

Sonic booms as in mach cones? Don't remember that. Visually they weren't fast.

He also scales to Wenwu's speed, and Wenwnu arrow timed an entire army. NWName took a look at that feat and has it as legit arrow timing.

Couple of things wrong with this argument. The rings created an omnidirectional shield which were deflecting the arrows. And two, reflexes don't scale.

Shang Chi comfortably as he's easily the superior h2h fighter. They aren't even in the same class.

R2 Oliver is getting one shotted.

Ollie shoots the non-arrow timer, IMO.

@rbt: Going by what NWName said (and I'd have to tag him here, can't on mobile so if you can do that much appreciated) he would have to be moving his arms extremely fast in order to block then.

As for reflexes not scaling, well if two characters scale to each other's physical stats, I think it doesn't make much sense for one character to have massively faster reflexes than another. That seems like intent butchery. You could say they're not entirely the same, but they should be relative.

@rbt: Yes the cones made sonic booms.

Any screengrabs of them making mach cones when he shot them at Shang Chi?

Whether Wenwu was an arrow timer or not is of no relevance here.

Don't remember that. Definitely not when he shot them at Shang.

@frozen:

Going by what NWName said (and I'd have to tag him here, can't on mobile so if you can do that much appreciated) he would have to be moving his arms extremely fast in order to block then.

Wdym? Are you saying the rings were what's blocking the arrows and not the shield they made?

As for reflexes not scaling, well if two characters scale to each other's physical stats, I think it doesn't make much sense for one character to have massively faster reflexes than another. That seems like intent butchery. You could say they're not entirely the same, but they should be relative.

Absolutely no reason for them to have the same reflexes. At all. Just because you are as strong or durable as someone does not necessarily mean you are as fast.

@rbt: Seems like the rings were blocking, didn't seem like a contsnt forcefield given he had to keep moving the rings around.

As for reflexes, that's not what I meant. I'm aware strength and durability doesn't scale, but if two characters are shown of comparable speed then I think its illogical for one to have massively faster reflexes against projectiles than the other.

@frozen:

Seems like the rings were blocking, didn't seem like a contsnt forcefield given he had to keep moving the rings around.

If you watch the scene on YT, there are multiple instances of arrows hitting where there is no ring.

As for reflexes, that's not what I meant. I'm aware strength and durability doesn't scale, but if two characters are shown of comparable speed then I think its illogical for one to have massively faster reflexes against projectiles than the other.

If by comparable speed, you mean combat speed, then it happens all the time in fiction(for there to be a disconnect between combat speed and reflexes). Its not a new concept. Otherwise, CW Ollie can react to Barry given he kept up with Savage. And so can everyone in Arrowverse.

@banditarla:

This has no relevance?

No. Because we aren't talking about whether Wenwu could arrow time. We're talking about whether Shang Chi can.

Also you can clearly see he just made whip constructs and was physically swinging his arms around to deflect the arrows with his shield.

There is literally a scene of the entire front of his being covered with a shield. How are two 3 inch wide whips covering the entire front of a man and a horse?

Shang-Chi wins R1; Oliver wins R2

Reason?

I think Oliver just has so many feats that it's really hard to tell. I think Shang is definitely more skilled than Oliver (or any other CW-Verse fighter for that matter), but he doesn't really have the feats to back that up.

I think he'd win both rounds, but I think R1 will be fairly close. I don't think Oliver has any feat as impressive as Shang beating a fully powered Wenwu. Oliver lost to Darhk when he was powered up (even when he didn't use TK) constantly, and Wenwu was way stronger than Darhk. Oliver definitely has way better group fight feats (beating like 48 people in about 2mins in the final episode, taking on like 30 guys in like 19s in S1, etc.), but the people Shang were fighting were significantly more skilled. I don't see Shang losing if Oliver doesn't have his gear.

R2 is a mismatch, Shang dominates.

More skilled. It would be close, and it could go either way, but I see Shang-Chi taking a very slight majority in pure H2H. Even though he has less feats than Oliver, that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

@geekryan: Why is he more skilled? Oliver's skill scaling is much more solid IMO. Oliver also has far superior stats feats. I can't think of any area where Shang has better feats except maybe agility.

@vacanus:

Oliver lost to Darhk when he was powered up (even when he didn't use TK) constantly, and Wenwu was way stronger than Darhk.

That's such a weird comparison to make. In a fight, Darhk would just snap Wenwu's neck with TK.

From a martial arts standpoint, Shang-Chi is more skilled. Strength and durability are arguable.

Oliver does have great skill scaling, but that works both ways. He has anti-feats as well, whether it's against getting tagged by fodder or struggling against named characters. I don't recall Shang-Chi getting tagged by fodder at any point. I'd need to watch the film a few times and analyze his feats before I can be certain that he'd take slight majority over Oliver.

@rbt: So you're saying Shang Chi could react to and dodge the rings that Wenwu was throwing at him and swinging at him, when he was swinging them fast enough to deflect an army's worth of arrows, and also create mach cones, and Shang Chi was also fighting evenly with Wenwu, who had the reactions to deflect those arrows, but somehow Shang Chi isn't an arrow timer? What?

@geekryan:

From a martial arts standpoint, Shang-Chi is more skilled.

Obviously, from a martial arts standpoint, but based on which feat from Shang Chi?

Strength and durability are arguable.

Oliver can snap metal chains and break open helicopter doors. Shang Chi doesn't even begin to compare. As for durability, unless we're taking into account Shang Chi's feats with his armor on, he doesn't compare there either.

Oliver does have great skill scaling, but that works both ways. He has anti-feats as well, whether it's against getting tagged by fodder or struggling against named characters. I don't recall Shang-Chi getting tagged by fodder at any point.

Shang Chi had 2 fodder fights. Oliver has had over 200. Why is it surprising that he'd have more low showings? Why would we even consider low showings?

The rings were very OP. Don't see how he loses to someone like Oliver, Cap or Black Sky with those.

@darkpsychiclord_prime:

So you're saying Shang Chi could react to and dodge the rings that Wenwu was throwing at him and swinging at him, when he was swinging them fast enough to deflect an army's worth of arrows

You mean when he created a shield from the rings and the arrows got deflected off of it? How is that a reflex feat?

and also create mach cones

Never did.

and Shang Chi was also fighting evenly with Wenwu, who had the reactions to deflect those arrows, but somehow Shang Chi isn't an arrow timer?

One, Wenwu is not an arrow timer. Two, even if he was, that wouldn't make Shang Chi an arrow timer because reflexes don't scale. Otherwise, everyone and their mother would be a bullet-timer in fiction.

What?

Ollie shoots the non-arrow timer.

@rbt: It isn't a weird comparison, I said when he didn't use TK. Oliver lost almost every single fight to him due to his enhanced strength. He managed to out-fight him one time when he had his magic. Wenwu is not only significantly stronger than Darhk, but I'd argue more skilled as well at H2H. I love Oliver, in fact, I think I rate him higher than most other people even on this site(I still maintain he'd beat Ras handily in a H2H fight by S7), but I don't see him beating Shang.

Even without using Shang's skill feats as an example, because Oliver definitely has more of those to pick from, Shang has such an advantage from his physicals. He is so ridiculously strong that I'd argue that he basically is enhanced/superhuman despite not actually being so (prior to his whole spiritual training stuff).

Out of any single live action fighter, I think Oliver is really the only one who is gonna give Shang a good fight with R1 rules. I think Matt, Danny, SHIELD agents, etc., would be dominated, but I don't see Oliver taking this win. I think he'd put up a good fight, he has insane feats, but Shang isn't called the master of Kung Fu for nothing.

Yeah after re-watching clips of the fight, he definitely seemed superhuman in the end fight to me...

@vacanus:

Oliver lost almost every single fight to him due to his enhanced strength.

Except Oliver beat him in the finale. After being through hell.

Wenwu is not only significantly stronger than Darhk

Again, I'm confused? Stronger as in he can lift more? Because he can't. Stronger overall as a fighter? If Darhk has TK, then he isn't. If Wenwu has the rings and Darhk does not have his TK, only then I can see Wenwu beating Darhk.

but I'd argue more skilled as well at H2H.

Based on which skill feat from Wenwu? I rate Darhk a bit below Ollie in skill.

He is so ridiculously strong that I'd argue that he basically is enhanced/superhuman despite not actually being so

What's Shang's best strength, striking, reflex and durability feat? Let's compare those with Oliver's.

I think Matt, Danny, SHIELD agents, etc., would be dominated, but I don't see Oliver taking this win.

I'd argue Matt and Danny would beat Shang Chi as well assuming he is in street attire and does not have the rings of course. Which is what I'm assuming for this fight as well.

So….how’d you like Shang Chi? I remember you saying the trailers were garbage lol.

Like I said, I'd need to rewatch the film and analyze the feats once they are available online.

Those are definitely high-ends for Oliver. He's peak human with a few superhuman outlier feats, but the intent is that he is peak human. He isn't a meta.

Because low showings need to be taken into account as well. We can't just rely on high ends.

@geekryan:

Those are definitely high-ends for Oliver. He's peak human with a few superhuman outlier feats,

I can list about 10 feats of Oliver damaging metal one way or another. More if we include other peak humans from Arrowverse. They are definitely not outliers.

but the intent is that he is peak human. He isn't a meta.

And Shang Chi is a meta? What does Oliver being a peak human has to do with what I said? What, P52 Batman snapping a chain won't be valid because he is a peak human?

Because low showings need to be taken into account as well. We can't just rely on high ends.

Given that the battle forum rule explicitly says that we consider characters at their best, this makes little sense. Low showings should not be considered for the same reason outliers aren't. Otherwise, Oliver's arrow move at Mach 4 and he has Mach 4 reflexes.

@rbt: It looks like he's deflecting them by using them in whip mode and swinging them fast enough. It doesn't look any different than when he fought against Shang.

I'm not going to get into this with you because I can see a case for Oliver winning, and I know how you feel about Oliver and the CW in general.

IIRC, there was a shot where the entirety of his front was covered in shield which were deflecting the arrows. That never happened in any of his other fights.

Shang Chi Both rounds. Lol at Oliver having similar physicals to him. Shang Chi was a tank for being just Peak human and was fighting Wuwen without the rings.

And an even Harder LOL AT Oliver beating 10 Rings Shang-Chi