MCU Rematch: Captain America ( / Endgame) vs Iron Man

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deactivated-5ea48b09caace

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Tony was knocked out cold by a hammer strike in Endgame. Steve kills him.

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krisbishop

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#53 krisbishop  Moderator

Cap should win quite handily.

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deactivated-5edbb4007f071

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Steve beats the tar out of him

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rawsos

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Cap wrecks. With Mjolnir he fared better against Thanos than either Thor or Iron Man did. And I think we can all agree that Endgame Thor and Endgame Iron Man would have wiped the floor with pre-IW Iron Man.

Iron Man still gets a few rounds, on the account of Captain America being somewhat of a glass cannon.

thanos had like three infinity stones and tony held well, while thanos had no stones and cap still had trouble

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deactivated-5e37510e25a10

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Steve should win. Mjolnir has the best striking in the MCU besides Giant Man. The MCU’s scaling throws everything off.

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DreadBringer

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@rawsos said:

@ouroborik said:

Cap wrecks. With Mjolnir he fared better against Thanos than either Thor or Iron Man did. And I think we can all agree that Endgame Thor and Endgame Iron Man would have wiped the floor with pre-IW Iron Man.

Iron Man still gets a few rounds, on the account of Captain America being somewhat of a glass cannon.

thanos had like three infinity stones and tony held well, while thanos had no stones and cap still had trouble

The infinity stones where Thanos only uses 1 of them twice and not at full potential (unless you believe Iron Man can tank planet busting attacks).

That's like saying someone that fights a gun wielding enemy BUT he doesn't use the gun, and say that people can hold on against guns.

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Composite?

Jericho missiles is more than enough to destroy Cap, let alone Iron Legion and composite Iron Man himself.

Bonus Round: could go either way

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Eri_Joni

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Cap.

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Alsimmons77

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@kolkent said:

Steve beats the tar out of him

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Rebake

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@bearderby: It's worthy Cap. Lol at the paper Iron Legion beating someone even half of Thor's level. Those prototypes were fragile. And Jerichos create explosions Thor can tank. Worthy Cap scales to Pre-Ragnarok Thor. He was killing Thanos while Iron Man in his IW suit never got close. We all know stones weaken the user when equipped. Cap has more damage output than Iron Man with Mjolnir.

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BOC

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Steve beats the tar out of him

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#64  Edited By jimmyvailer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjiSVunIWpU

Iron Man already survived blows from Mjolnir and Thor's lightning in the Mark 6.

Thor with 1500 years of experience >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cap with 15 seconds of experience

Stark wins. Handily with the Mark 50.

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Lilbroomstick

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Both Iron Man and Hulk should take Cap for now more often than not.

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deactivated-5f34b01dd81ff

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Cap gets taken out quickly and easily.

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Floopay

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Iron Man fairly decisively imo.

Iron Man was far less inclined to take his fights to a melee confrontation in IW and EG. From a distance, Iron Man pretty much stomps. Especially considering all Cap can do is throw his shield or weapon in those situations, as lightning will only empower Tony. And even in melee Tony can contend fairly well.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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Darkthunder

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@floopay: what can tony dish out that cap can't tank?

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Lilbroomstick

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#69  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@floopay: what can tony dish out that cap can't tank?

What are Cap's tanking feats that make him so hard to put down?

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Floopay

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@floopay: what can tony dish out that cap can't tank?

Effective ranged attacks?

I honestly just don't see how Cap is taking the majority between Iron Man's mobility and his omni-directional ranged attacks.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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MattyBoi

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R1: Cap stomps.

Bonus: Tony wins mid diff.

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Floopay

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@lilbroomstick: @darkthunder: Cap got slapped around through his shield by Thanos. So, I just don't see him being quite on Thor's level of strength/durability tbh.

Avengers 1 Tony was able to give Thor kind of a good match (ultimately got whooped; but still sent him flying on a few occasions). And we have a clearly line of improvement from there that would lead me to believe he can more than harm Thor; who I still believe is above Worthy Cap based on showings.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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Lilbroomstick

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@floopay: I'd put current Iron Man pretty high up there tbh. His normal repulsors can oneshot Leviathans and Hydra tanks without much effort. He could easily analyze Cap's fighting style and avoid his attacks(although lightning actually helps him here). In EG he definitely did get more powerful at least durability, repulsor, and maybe strength wise but it's not as clear since he doesn't really get spotlight until the snap unlike in IW.

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Void_Reborn

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#74  Edited By Void_Reborn

Tony's repulsor blasts just get blocked by the shield as usual. Eventually Mjolnir wins Cap the fight. Actually, knowing MCU Iron Man, he probably does something stupid like get into CqC despite his ridiculous range advantage and mobility then he dies.

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Lilbroomstick

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Tony's repulsor blasts just get blocked by the shield as usual. Eventually Mjolnir wins Cap the fight. Actually, knowing MCU Iron Man, he probably does something stupid like get into CqC despite his ridiculous range advantage and mobility then he dies.

Wouldn't a close quarters fight be in Iron Man's favor since he could just scan his fighting style? To be honest by feats Iron Man should outlast Cap in a slugfest anyway due to his durability.

Pre-IW Iron Man kind of just gets wrecked though.

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Void_Reborn

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@void_reborn said:

Tony's repulsor blasts just get blocked by the shield as usual. Eventually Mjolnir wins Cap the fight. Actually, knowing MCU Iron Man, he probably does something stupid like get into CqC despite his ridiculous range advantage and mobility then he dies.

Wouldn't a close quarters fight be in Iron Man's favor since he could just scan his fighting style? To be honest by feats Iron Man should outlast Cap in a slugfest anyway due to his durability.

Pre-IW Iron Man kind of just gets wrecked though.

IM was having difficulty in CqC against Bucky and pre-IW Cap. Worthy Cap is going to win CqC tbh. IM's fighting style scanning doesn't seem to work as well or even work at all in the MCU because if so he would barely take any hits and attacks would be close to 100% efficient. I know his suit doesn't depower from Mjolnir's lightning but the damage is going to destroy his armor eventually.

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Rebake

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@void_reborn: pretty much. Scanning fight patterns requires time to soak a long combo. Cap couldn't put IM down quickly with his combo in CW, but here, IM isn't taking a beating half as long with Mjolnir enhancing Cap in the equation.

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Lilbroomstick

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@lilbroomstick said:
@void_reborn said:

Tony's repulsor blasts just get blocked by the shield as usual. Eventually Mjolnir wins Cap the fight. Actually, knowing MCU Iron Man, he probably does something stupid like get into CqC despite his ridiculous range advantage and mobility then he dies.

Wouldn't a close quarters fight be in Iron Man's favor since he could just scan his fighting style? To be honest by feats Iron Man should outlast Cap in a slugfest anyway due to his durability.

Pre-IW Iron Man kind of just gets wrecked though.

IM was having difficulty in CqC against Bucky and pre-IW Cap. Worthy Cap is going to win CqC tbh. IM's fighting style scanning doesn't seem to work as well or even work at all in the MCU because if so he would barely take any hits and attacks would be close to 100% efficient. I know his suit doesn't depower from Mjolnir's lightning but the damage is going to destroy his armor eventually.

Iron Man is less skilled than Bucky and he didn't actually use the scanning until near the end of the fight where he started dominating Cap. Cap is about as skilled as they come so if it works on him it should be able to work on people with simpler fighting styles(he never even attempted to use it on anyone outside of the Civil War fight since that's really the only situation where skill was the main issue for him).

Iron Man has the feats to win the slugfest.

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Lilbroomstick

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@rebake: The scanning only took about a minute or less. Do you really think that Iron Man would go down that fast? It honestly shouldn't even take that long considering he his armor already has most of Captain America's fighting style in it. I'd also argue he wouldn't get beat down like that here without the scanning since his speed seemed nerfed like everything else that wasn't Cap in Civil War.

I could see Iron Man taking quite a few blows before going down but I'm not sure I could say the same for Steve taking solid hits from Tony. His weaponized fists should be better or comparable to Thanos' normal serious punches. Cap didn't fare so well against those and Iron Man isn't any slower than Thanos either.

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Void_Reborn

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@rebake: The scanning only took about a minute or less. Do you really think that Iron Man would go down that fast? It honestly shouldn't even take that long considering he his armor already has most of Captain America's fighting style in it. I'd also argue he wouldn't get beat down like that here without the scanning since his speed seemed nerfed like everything else that wasn't Cap in Civil War.

I could see Iron Man taking quite a few blows before going down but I'm not sure I could say the same for Steve taking solid hits from Tony. His weaponized fists should be better or comparable to Thanos' normal serious punches. Cap didn't fare so well against those and Iron Man isn't any slower than Thanos either.

No, his hits are definitely not Thanos level, not in this suit. That's why he needed Hulkbuster to contend with the Hulk. Thanos put Hulk down very quickly on his own.

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@lilbroomstick: In CW IM had the strength and durablilty advantage. Even landing a counter attack won't rock Cap the same way now. He also did not scan Cap while using hammer and shield combos, so he cannot counter the same way he did last time. And IM isn't lasting a minute after the first attack lands bc the man in the suit can't tank Mjolnir even if the metal holds up. And there's no dark magic weakening Cap like with Thor. Strikes that bruise and bloody Thanos will wreck the suit internally as well as the human inside. Cap in CW (normal Cap) is fodder to Thanos and can't damage him at all so most of his hits being tanked by IM in CW was to be expected. But now IM can't tank even half the amount of hits with Cap's boosted striking power.

Scanning won't save IM this time even if it's given time to work. Cap was mixing it up against Thanos, not spamming shield strikes and punches like he did against IM in CW. And with the stat difference more or less gone, he's not getting disarmed as easily as in CW. Catching the shield by the edge may cost IM a hand.

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@void_reborn:

No Caption Provided

The only reason why Cap even landed hits on Thanos is because for some reason Thanos jumped at Cap when they charged at each other which gave Cap the early advantage. There's really no way Tony loses this fight as he has versatility and can physically remove Mjolnir from Cap's hands.

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@sufferedtoker: Removing Mjolnir shouldn't be easy for IM to do since Cap has Thor's stats and Cap can just summon it if he does somehow drop it. Thanos was on another level of strength and durability. IM's armor cracked from his punches. IM doesn't get to do everything Thanos did against Cap. Also, Cap was always going to land the first attack bc his shield was in position to block it. The shield can take certain hits from the sword without damage. I doubt that hit would've done it since there was no room for a full force swing. A scratch might've occurred at most. IM can't damage the shield nor the hammer. He'd be hard pressed to damage Cap. He can't hit like Thanos and his ranged attacks can be blocked or tanked. In close combat, IM is outmatched due to the "lag" of his strongest attacks taking too long while Cap could get many more hits in before Thanos could retaliate. IM only has lightning absorption going for him, but gets absolutely dismantled if he fights up close (which he will bc it's Tony Stark). Even bringing up Thanos getting the first hit shouldn't matter to the discussion of whether IM will. Cap was the first to actually touch Thanos in the 3v1 fight. Thanos was fresh too. IM fought a mourning Thanos (who held back in and took hits from other heroes before their 1v1 in IW) and a weakened Thanos in EG (nearly killed by SW and beat up by Worthy Cap). IM has to get lucky to win. Or have prep and more than one suit ready. Or use the stones.

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Lilbroomstick

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#84  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@rebake: I don't really agree with a lot of the stuff you said, but let's say it does go down like that. Iron Man could just counterattack like this

WHAMM!
WHAMM!

Then he could quickly clamp Captain America down with thruster boosted pieces of his armor(similar to what he was using on the Staten Island Ferry in Spider-man: Homecoming which should work since I literally doubt his lifting strength is even a portion of Iron Man's...now that I think about this alone could be a win via incap since he can't escape without Mjolnir and can't call Mjolnir with his hands completely pinned.), while that happens he can siphon plenty of energy from Mjolnir like he does to these guys

"Mmm. Tasty."
Finally he can finish Cap off using something like this
Finally he can finish Cap off using something like this

Cap is not the only one that can hurt Thanos. He was blasted back by Rescue here(she had the help of Shuri and Wasp but neither of them can even kill a leviathan from what I recall).

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@rebake said:

@sufferedtoker: Removing Mjolnir shouldn't be easy for IM to do since Cap has Thor's stats and Cap can just summon it if he does somehow drop it. Thanos was on another level of strength and durability. IM's armor cracked from his punches. IM doesn't get to do everything Thanos did against Cap. Also, Cap was always going to land the first attack bc his shield was in position to block it. The shield can take certain hits from the sword without damage. I doubt that hit would've done it since there was no room for a full force swing. A scratch might've occurred at most. IM can't damage the shield nor the hammer. He'd be hard pressed to damage Cap. He can't hit like Thanos and his ranged attacks can be blocked or tanked. In close combat, IM is outmatched due to the "lag" of his strongest attacks taking too long while Cap could get many more hits in before Thanos could retaliate. IM only has lightning absorption going for him, but gets absolutely dismantled if he fights up close (which he will bc it's Tony Stark). Even bringing up Thanos getting the first hit shouldn't matter to the discussion of whether IM will. Cap was the first to actually touch Thanos in the 3v1 fight. Thanos was fresh too. IM fought a mourning Thanos (who held back in and took hits from other heroes before their 1v1 in IW) and a weakened Thanos in EG (nearly killed by SW and beat up by Worthy Cap). IM has to get lucky to win. Or have prep and more than one suit ready. Or use the stones.

This

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Lilbroomstick

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#89  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@void_reborn said:

@lilbroomstick: This isn't nanotech IM

The bonus round is

Edit: although composite Iron Man stomps with Jericho missiles either way

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Void_Reborn

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Lilbroomstick

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@lilbroomstick said:
@void_reborn said:

@lilbroomstick: This isn't nanotech IM

The bonus round is

Oh lol. IM can win bonus round then. Still think Cap takes R1

Actually composite Iron Man would have Veronica + Jericho missiles + Iron Legion. Jericho missiles seal Tony's victory more often than not.

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Void_Reborn

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#92  Edited By Void_Reborn

@lilbroomstick: Is this not MCU IM? Or has he used Jericho missiles somewhere during the MCU?

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Lilbroomstick

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#93  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@void_reborn said:

@lilbroomstick: Is this not MCU IM? Or has he used Jericho missiles somewhere during the MCU?

His whole first movie was pretty much revolved around the Jericho missiles he made. Composite Iron Man definitely has them.

No Caption Provided

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#95  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@void_reborn said:

@lilbroomstick: Why does he never use them afterwards

Logically because he stops making weapons and wants to change himself. Those terrorists were trying to steal the missiles. Jericho missiles probably would cause too much destruction. Although I think it's kind of stupid that he never uses anything remotely similar against Thanos. I blame Disney though.

I think he might have some Jericho missiles built into his suit or at least some of them still around because we see in a tie-in comic that he was messing around with some weapons he made that were similar to Jericho missiles. He just never uses them due to plot(just like sonics, flamethrowers although these would probably be less effective than repulsors, and what I think is liquid nitrogen which is something that he could've used in Iron Man 3).

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@lilbroomstick: How do we know Iron Man's missiles weren't the best concentrated explosives he had on hand against Thanos? He doesn't need something like the Jericho, he needs something like Stormbreaker that can deliver seriously concentrated damage. His tank busting rocket didn't look impressive but just was. Tony Stark concluded that Thanos had no weaknesses. If he believed he had better explosives in his suit that could do the job, he'd regret not doing so rather than act like he did all he could. Those missiles don't have quantifiable damage output but it doesn't mean those are certainly weaker than anti-tank rockets. A shield and Mjolnir clash busted a Hydra tank with its shockwave alone but it only caused Thanos to stumble. Thanos tanking Iron Man's attacks doesn't mean Stark wasn't using everything he had that he believed would be effective. Sonics wouldn't do any better than Cap's shockwave attack.

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@lilbroomstick: also, weakened A1 Thor took zero damage from Iron Man blasting him with his repulsors and unibeam at the same time while charged up by 400%. Am I supposed to believe Cap can't rush through the multi-beam attack with a vibranium shield? He can tank whatever gets through.

Also, Iron Man's combat speed isn't as good as Worthy Cap's when heavy attacks are required. Showing scans of IM taking down fodder targets he can one-shot isn't a good representation of how he'll be fighting Cap. If the hit is too weak, Cap will immediately counter and every hit that lands from either the vibranium shield or uru hammer will do damage. Thanos received a cut on his face from the shield and his helmet was cracked by the hammer. Regen will help IM but the man inside will be hurt and doesn't have regen. Also, unless IM catches Cap completely off-guard like he did Thanos, clamping Cap will likely not happen. Cap can just smack the part away with either weapon (especially if he starts the fight spinning Mjolnir). Thanos tore it apart with one hand so even if it catches one limb, Cap can break it off. Thor has about half of Thanos's strength but higher striking power with weapons. IM did not launch pieces off his suit at Thanos when had his full attention. He's better off spamming ranged attacks (which will mostly fail). Cap should be able to tank any explosives IM has. He may get knocked down like Thor does, but that doesn't indicate damage unless he struggles to get up. Thor has heat resistance beyond what repulsors can dish out even without the star forge feat, so it's just knockback that's affecting him in the forest fight. Gungnir can completely disintegrate Loki level beings with a casual blast and Thor took multiple shots from it. Worthy Cap gets phase 1 Thor stat related feats. IM can't win as quickly as you believe. He's more versatile but not more powerful. His tricks might win him 1/10 fights (being generous) but in most situations he gets beaten by the raw power and combat skill Cap has. Cap counters a lot of IM's arsenal and the attacks that can do more serious damage are too slow. Thanos had no time to grab and rip off Cap's helmet like he did IM after the first few hits. The attack rate gap is noticeable when IM can't just fodderize his opponent and needs to hit hard.

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Darkthunder

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@lilbroomstick: he has Thor stats and he well he didn't tank but he didn't instantly die from a bloodlusted punch to the face from Thanos

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Lilbroomstick

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#100  Edited By Lilbroomstick

@rebake:I don't think you get the strategy I was going for. The situation is Worthy Cap is beating up Iron Man and seems to overwhelm him. Cap won't be expecting Iron Man to hit him with the things that come out of his back. This gives Iron Man the opportunity to clamp him and siphon some of Mjolnir's energy. He uses the multi-beam attack on Cap while he's clamped. I don't think this will be similar to the forest fight considering Iron Man apparently gave a better fight to Thanos than Hulk and Ragnarok Thor, and as of Endgame, Iron Man can hurt Thanos with some of his attacks.The two main problems for Iron Man in their fight was that he couldn't do any real damage to Thor and that he didn't abuse his long range weapons. Also looking at feats any armor AoU and above really shouldn't have too much trouble simply hurting phase 1 Thor, let alone nanotech Iron Man. Also going back to what you said Cap might actually have trouble running through those multi-beams considering someone way stronger than Cap did(Thanos) even if he does have good defense. Nowadays a casual one handed repulsor>>>>>>>>Mark IV blasts

I really do think Civil War Iron Man's speed was nerfed. He felt like a flying a brick in that movie. I've seen him react to missiles during close quarters combat before though. He's can also react fast enough to suit up mid-explosion(an explosion big enough to leave a crater where he his house used to be). Even in Infinity War he reacted to a meteor(which actually weren't visually that slow they only slowed down right at the moment Stark got hit by one so we can know what's happening) and that's at the very least mach 23. He usually has no problem fighting off multiple opponents at once at high-speeds:

No Caption Provided

During flight he's really fast. If he could get Cap into the air and keep him there the speed advantage definitely goes to him by a landslide. On the otherhand if the is on the ground Iron Man won't be getting outpaced due to raw speed, it could be for skill though. Iron Man most likely could weave around some attacks like he did to that meteor.

In-character I see this fight being in Cap's favor as he will likely counter anything Tony throws at them and Tony will be fighting him ineffectively.

Bloodlusted is where I see a character fighting to the best of their ability. This is Tony's fight to win. He can use sonics to disrupt cap, fire some clamps on him, fly up and dive bomb him at like this:

Except at roughly mach 32
Except at roughly mach 32
And with repulsor fists
And with repulsor fists

Not to mention that Iron Man has the ability to use nearly every attack he has at once in an instant. He has a lot of potential combos here and just potential in general. Like I could see him launching a piece of himself on Cap's shield hand in the middle of being attacked to leave Steve wide open.