MCU Punisher vs T'Challa

Melee fight between Punisher and depowered T'Challa. Takes place in a gym. Both start with knives. Both pissed off.

Frank

T'Challa. More skilled.

T'Challa due to overall skill and fighting ability.

If it were unarmed combat, I'd back Frank due to stats.

T'Challa absolutely annihilates him, w/no real effort whatsoever.

@anthp2000: IDK what's stranger at this point. Nick's Punisher wank or your Punisher lowball.

T'Challa has already shown little to no impressive skill when depowered. Frank humiliates him similar to how Killmonger did.

@king-ragnar: You're acting like Frank doesnt get tagged by gym rats loads? And how did Killmonger humiliate him?

Call me unimpressed with depowered T'Challa, really. I'm backing Frank due to more lethality, better damage soak, and having enough skill to compete. He's more environmentally creative, which he's already shown in a gym

@tonymartial:

You're acting like Frank doesnt get tagged by gym rats loads?

You're acting like herbless T'Challa has actually shown any noteworthy skill.

And how did Killmonger humiliate him?

Oh i don't know, because he cut T'Challa 3 times, stabbed him in the gut, beat him down then proceeded to mock him and throw him off of a cliff.

Frank.

They have roughly equal skill. Frank is physically tougher.

You're acting like herbless T'Challa has actually shown any noteworthy skill.

With scaling we can. Killmonger was able to take on 4 Doras (including Okoye who can hold her own vs Proxima) without getting tagged, this beats anything Frank has done. Now I know what you're gonna say "but Killmonger stomped him"! This is false.

Oh i don't know, because he cut T'Challa 3 times, stabbed him in the gut, beat him down then proceeded to mock him and throw him off of a cliff.

Kol gave a good analysis I feel to their fight on discord earlier this week. Which is fair to use here. Feel free to rewatch the fight.

T'Challa arguably beat him in the ritual. He had a spear pointed directly at his chest with erik on the ground. He doesn't press that advantage. Then again he intentionally slits the side of his cheek and makes what could be a killing shot into a non lethal one. I always interpreted T'Challa holding back due to his backstory and the fact that he was his long lost cousin and he decisively beat him on the train tracks using his own weapon

And remember, T'Challa doesnt lose his skill when he loses his stats.

Like being able to clown Bucky whos just below Cap a little. Stomping Clint in melee whos equal to Widow.

And lets not forget that even depowered T'Challa even has good pain tolerance. He was stabbed clean through the chest by M'Baku and still was able to fight until the end and beat him. Stabbed in the stomach and still was able to throw punches at Killmonger as well.

T'Challa is likely to outskill him and land the lethal blows.

@tonymartial:

With scaling we can. Killmonger was able to take on 4 Doras (including Okoye who can hold her own vs Proxima) without getting tagged, this beats anything Frank has done.

With scaling and ABC Logic i can say Frank has given Matt a good fight. The latter has shown superior skill to Iron Fist, fought Murakami and Bakuto simultaneously and was able to fight Black Sky.

Kol gave a good analysis I feel to their fight on discord earlier this week. Which is fair to use here. Feel free to rewatch the fight.

I have seen the fight. Multiple times. T'Challa only got one knock down on Erik, who after that cut the former 3 times (Leg, Stomach and Arm) then stabbed him in the gut, beat him down then proceeded to mock him and throw him off of a cliff. If that doesn't qualify as blatant humiliation idk what does.

And remember, T'Challa doesnt lose his skill when he loses his stats.

Judging by what we've seen from T'Challa so far in the MCU, his lack of noteworthy skill is compensated by his stats.

Like being able to clown Bucky whos just below Cap a little.

Exactly how is that clowning ? Bucky evaded his punches and kicks multiple times and landed hits on him as well.

Stomping Clint in melee whos equal to Widow.

For the same reason i mentioned before. His super soldier like stats compensate for his lack of skill.

And lets not forget that even depowered T'Challa even has good pain tolerance. He was stabbed clean through the chest by M'Baku and still was able to fight until the end and beat him.

That is child's play compared to Frank's pain tolerance

Stabbed in the stomach and still was able to throw punches at Killmonger as well.

To which the latter evaded with laughable ease.

T'Challa is likely to outskill him and land the lethal blows.

Not really, it's the other way around.

Frank has edge in both skill , strength and durability , the only disadvantage is speed but he makes up for it with him damage soak.

smh with All Father's racism

@tonymartial: By beating the shit out of him, while clowning and mouthing off to Tchalla's family and royal court, before throwing him off a cliff.

___

Also, off topic, like it or not, by law of Wakanda, Killmonger WAS the rightful king of Wakanda and the actions of Tchalla at the end were those of a usurper.

___

On Topic, Punisher crushes him. T'challa has some slight technical advatages, but he isn't "more skilled".

Punisher has him beat him in a lot of the areas that count...timing for one. The ability to close quicker and control space better, and better blocking and slips.

Technicals don't win fights...FIGHTING wins fights. And fighting encompasses all the fundamentals that Frank is better at. He also has a better instinct...

...Yeah, Tchalla get's stomped. Killmonger showed us that Tchalla doesn't belong fighting guys like that.

Frank beats him by doing the exact same thing he did to DD. He blocks and defends until he get's an opening to rush, then he takes that opening, blitzes and brutalizes.

Tchalla, like DD, isn't solid enough in his foundation to stop that blitz. You need hard styles, with a strong base to take on Punisher, that's how Russo did it and he was beating Frank. Otherwise, Frank is too good at onvading people's space and disrupting their timing and eventually, their balance.

He'd do better against DD or Melinda May then he would against Punisher, if we were to try to predict this and lay odds like a real fight, imo,

@paytience: how was Kilmonger rightful king? T’Challa wasn’t dead and he hadn’t surrendered.

Frank because he probably knows knives better.

@supremegeneration: Beaten is beaten. If not for the outside interference of others he never would of survived, much less returned to fight. And he never would been a match for Killmonger without the herb and assistance from his sisters.

The match for king is fought one v one without the herb. If you don't agree that Tchalla lost when he was thrown off the mountain, he still would of been disqualified when Mbaku helped him; and certainly would not of been allowed to return with the herb.

Tchalla and his family usurped the rightful king in a rebellion...which is ironic since I'd give 20 to 1 that had Killmonger been in charge, Thanos' army would of gotten smoked by air power, and point defense weapons rather than...lol, squares of people with spears.

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Now, should we point out that Loki is technically the rightful king of Asgard?

@thespartanb345t: Wait, before I forget...

...Frank via PRISON YARD RUSH.

Yeah, if we follow Wakanda's politics, Killmonger is still the rightful king of Wakanda.

Loki was the rightful king of Asgard, especially since Frigga crowned him in a deleted scene. Though let's be honest, the laws of Asgard basically amounts to "Whatever Odin wants". It only takes like a few days after he dies for the civilization to fall apart lol.

@paytience: So I take it based on your comment you believe Killmonger>T'challa? How would you rate killmonger against the likes of punisher or daredevil? Do you think he would do better?

@drago666: Yeah...he is clearly better than T'challa.

Vs DD and Punisher...He would do better vs either than Tchalla would. Although I don't consider DD>Tchalla necessarily, just that styles make fights. They're about the same level imo. Killmonger is not as good of a match up for DD as Frank is, but I think would do better vs Frank than DD.

All three either could or would beat Tchalla with only DD being questionable in that.

frank

People are so dumb its sad. Herb doesn't increase skill lmao and Killmonger was far from a chump. T'Challa stomps the punk

Both have shown exceptional knife skill and would stomp Frank while herbless

T'Challa. Outskilling M'Baku is above Frank's current level TBH.

Depowered t’challa would get his ass absolutely handed to him by MCU daredevil, who outclasses him in just about every category. Frank was able to fight on an even playing field with Matt multiple times and even beat him. T’challa is more skilled, sure, but Matt’s more skilled than t’challa and frank handled him fine.

Frank.

Frank no question

I thought this was comic versions lol, Frank ofcourse wins, he has better showings in all areas.

So we're still pretending that Frank compares to Daredevil I see.

@the_magister: Lowballing someone is assuming they have feats that range from decent to mediocre. Frank has neither, he's just a really, really bad fighter. At this point, anyone he beats is solely due to physical advantages. As usual though, people are going to highball him as well as lowball T'Challa, who's fought on par with master martial artists, soldiers and assassins on more than occasion.

Frank wins. Depowered T'challa is pathetic. Superpowered on the other hand, would 1-shot kill him by flicking him in the head... okay that's overexaggeration but still. Depowered loses though if T'challa got the herb he'd win.

People are always underestimating MCU frank because he doesn’t do exceptionally well against groups of fodder because they clearly don’t understand that franks fighting style far better suits a one vs one confrontation than group confrontations. Frank utilizes his toughness and pain tolerance to tank many attacks and dish out a few attacks of his own that are far more influential than the many hits his opponent landed. This is much more difficult against groups of fodder, because rather than maneuvering around the groups and dodging blows like daredevil does, frank has to tank the attacks as befits his fighting style, and in groups that means he has to tank a much higher volume than in a one v one encounter.

Lowball frank all you want by showing him struggling with groups of fodder, I challenge you to show me one bad showing of his against a named opponent. T’challa only has good feats with the herb, and while his skill should translate over somewhat, he should also be capable of techniques with heart shaped herb that his limited human physicality would be unable to pull off. This also makes sense as to why he beat killmonger while both were amp’d on The herb. Killmonger was clearly more skilled at baseline, but since t’challa has much more experience utilizing techniques while amp’d on the herb, he was able to pull ahead when they were both on the herb.

@amcu: You're going to pretend like Frank didn't kick his ass on 3 separate occasions, I see.

@anthp2000: Frank is one of the best fighters in the MCU, and matches up well against just about anybody 1 v 1. He might not be winning against them all, but he'll hurt just about all of them.

The only REALLY bad matches that I can think of for him are like, Ward and Fisk.

His crowd control is not the best, but really other than that, even his fodder handling is good. He is excellent once he get's them tight together and fights close with groups. He just isn't as good when they are in a spread. His bathroom and elevator fights and DD2 diner fight for example.

Frank kicks his ass

T’Challa wins. Solidly I’d imagine.

If T'Challa get stabbed in the gut, he's going to do his best first nut expression and drop to his knees. From there Frank will do whatever he pleases. If Frank gets stabbed in the gut, he's just going to steal your knife. Chances are T'Challa still drops to his knees, and Frank still does whatever he pleases with him. All jokes aside, the difference between their durability is just too high. Frank is insane and can easily fight through his pain if he gets stabbed. You would have to physically disable him to take him out. T'Challa barely got M'Baku to tap, and it was a verbal tap so he didn't really have the choke. Frank won't tap. Frank would just grab on to T'Challa and throw them both over the waterfall. He probably has a better chance of surviving than T'Challa anyways.

T'Challa probably has superior skill but Frank has way higher durability. He does whatever it takes to win.

Backing Frank on this actually.

Carson Wolf is a better match for T’Challa on the vine

Frank is going to eat what ever is thrown at him, Tchalla can't do the same he'll be on his knees in pain the first real shot Frank lands with his knife.

No, I disagree.

@the_magister:

You're right. Even though T'Challa does stomp here, Frank might beat Ward and other featless AoS fighters.

I haven't seen Punisher season 2 but has Frank exhibited the dirty fighting habits he has shown in the comics? Like does he bite people's lip off, kick them in the balls, etc? If so Frank might not have to be as skilled as black panther or anyone really to fight them.

T'Challa has very little going for him in terms of skill accolades and fighting Bucky while evenly matched in terms of physical stats is about the best thing he ever did. Frank also has better physical feats across the board than an herbless T'Challa. I don't see why T'Challa really stands a chance to be honest, it seems like people are giving him credit for being a top tier martial artist when he has never demonstrated it.

Punisher.

@anthp2000: No amount of your salt changes the fact that Zaheer is still underrated.