MCU PRIME ODIN VS MCU FULL POWER SCARLET WITCH

ALL THEIR POWERS THEY HAVE ACHIEVED ARE ALLOWED.

TAKES PLACE ON MIDGARD

ODIN HAS JUST IMPRISONED HELA AND WANTS TO RID THE WORLD OF POWERFUL FEMALE BEINGS WITH AN APPETITE FOR CONQUEST.

SCARLETT WITCH IS ENRAGED THINKING ODIN KILLED EVERYONE SHE LOVED INCLUDING HER CHILDREN

PLEASE PROVIDE DETIAL TO YOUR ANSWER (WHAT SPECIFIC POWER /FEAT, DURABILITY)

Wanda crushes him

@emmafrostxmen: PLEASE STATE HOW AND BY WHAT METHOD

Prime Odin should destroy by portrayal and intent, having defeated Hela and Surtur at his most powerful, but to my memory he's almost completely featless.

@allfatherodin: she grabs him with TK and crushes his body like a soda can

Prime Odin will likely still be much less durable than Thanos. Besides, he already admitted that Thor is stronger than he ever was

Wanda one shots with TK crush

@deltahuman: Prime Odin will likely still be much less durable than Thanos. Besides, he already admitted that Thor is stronger than he ever was

Daddy style motivational speech. Clearly not accurate given a near-powerless and dying Odin was still strong enough to hold back Hela's return to the material world.

OT: Via intent and stated feats, Odin slaughters. Via on-screen feats, Odin's best feat is one-shotting Thor and depowering him, so not sure.

Odin by statements, Waanda by feats

@breakofdawn:

I don't think so. The same dying Odin you've hyped up, who apparently was still powerful enough to hold back Hela, wasn't powerful enough to break Loki's spell? It took him years to just do that. Even earth based sorcerers like Dr Strange treat Loki like trash.

Odin, even in his prime, when he waged wars was just a regular Asgardian with no innate abilities except super stats. Thor, in addition to super stats, can generate lightning, which last time I checked, was powerful enough to more or less bust a city, even before his awakening. Thor has better feats by virtue of moving the rings that would weigh billions of tons. Even if Odin were powerful enough to physically lift Prime Surtur, it still wouldn't be a billion ton feat. Thor's star feat is better than any and every durability feat Odin has or is implied to have.

Also, Odin depowering Thor doesn't mean he can depower just about anyone, certainly not Wanda. He couldn't even depower Hela, an Asgardian. It is most likely that Odin used sorcery or deceit to defeat Surtur Prime, which is still his best implied feat yet too vague to apply here.

Thor is stronger and more powerful than Odin by all intents and purposes. Odin, even in his prime, required the services of Hela and his army to loot the 9 realms. If he truly were more powerful than Surtur Prime, he wouldn't have needed them at all. He also would've been powerful enough to defeat and kill Hela or Malekith by himself

Ok and i wanna know how has he done those godlike feats, maybe he needed tools and prep time. Maybe he did those feats by creating prepped ambush. Maybe he has done this threatening with tesseract. Maybe he was threatening by releashing bifrost on their planet etc.

@deltahuman:

Odin, even in his prime, when he waged wars was just a regular Asgardian with no innate abilities except super stats.

Also, Odin depowering Thor doesn't mean he can depower just about anyone,

Eh these aren't really true IMO. Odin didn't just depower Thor. He physically transformed him into a human. Mjolnir gave Thor his powers back and seemed to transform him back into an Asgardian but before that he was a human. Odin also turned Loki into an Asgardian. He placed an enchantment on Mjolnir casually, had the ability to hold Hela at bay for thousands of years and we know he has the ability to teleport individuals considering Avengers 1.

These are just the abilities we're aware of and we've never even seen prime Odin. I wouldn't use showings from Odin in Ragnarok like struggling to break out of Loki's spell when we know Odin was so weak that he literally died of old age.

My father by statements, Scarlet by current feats. No other explanation needed.

@amcu:

No, actually I mentioned Odin not being able to break Loki's spell because the other guy said that weak Odin can hold off Hela. I just pointed out that the same weak Odin also couldn't break out of Loki's spell for years.

I wouldn't consider Odin transforming Thor into a human or placing enhancements on Mjolnir as something that is relevant here. He clearly can't depower beings from all races cuz that would be NLF. He couldn't even physically face Hela in a fight, let alone depower her, and Hela is an Asgardian. He kept Hela at bay not by fighting her physically and defeating her fair and square but by using sorcery to imprison her in a different realm. So Odin's ability of affecting Asgardians and Asgardian artifacts is clearly limited (I think it has something to do with some form of control he has over Mjolnir and the connection of Thor's powers to the hammer before it was retconned in Ragnarok) and so wouldn't be of any use against Wanda. Odin's teleporting ability is also clearly mentioned to require Dark Energy which makes him weak and we don't know if it's instantaneous or requires other devices and rituals. Either way, it will not meaningfully effect the fight with Wanda at all.

Let's not forget Wanda can snap Thanos's sword which is probably one of the strongest artifacts/weapons in the MCU, like a twig. Wanda is strong enough to crush Thanos with TK and by Russo Brother's own admission, Thanos is the most durable being in MCU. I don't see Odin standing a chance at all unless he has some instantaneous one shot magic which is highly unlikely. I've already explained how Thor, by the end of IW, should clearly be stronger by both feats and intent. The most likely explanation for Odin defeating Surtur is deceit. He probably stole the Eternal Flame in some way and that's how he had tamed Surtur all these years

LMAO wanda dies here Hela would wreck her and Odin >>Hela

@deltahuman:

I don't think so. The same dying Odin you've hyped up, who apparently was still powerful enough to hold back Hela, wasn't powerful enough to break Loki's spell? It took him years to just do that. Even earth based sorcerers like Dr Strange treat Loki like trash.

Given that he was apparently even weakened or dying at the time, was caught unawares and was trapped with spells Odin claimed would impress even Frigga, I don't see why this is a bad feat. It's like saying SW is weak because a physical blow can take her out.

Odin, even in his prime, when he waged wars was just a regular Asgardian with no innate abilities except super stats.

We literally see him shooting energy blasts:

Casting enchantments:

Creating illusions:

Calling upon dark magic:

If memory serves, he created a constellation.

And lastly, can transcend death and appear to Thor:

So I'm not entirely sure what you mean by him having no innate abilities. His powers are far more versatile than the likes of SW's.

Thor, in addition to super stats, can generate lightning, which last time I checked, was powerful enough to more or less bust a city, even before his awakening. Thor has better feats by virtue of moving the rings that would weigh billions of tons.

Cool, and Odin one-shotted him.

Even if Odin were powerful enough to physically lift Prime Surtur, it still wouldn't be a billion ton feat. Thor's star feat is better than any and every durability feat Odin has or is implied to have.

First, Odin is clearly leagues above Odin. Second, physicals are irrelevant here. I was discussing Odin's power, not his physicals.

Also, Odin depowering Thor doesn't mean he can depower just about anyone, certainly not Wanda.

I didn't say he could. I was using it as an example of how powerful he is, that he can casually strip beings of Phase 1 Thor's level powerless.

He couldn't even depower Hela, an Asgardian.

Ok? Hela is on a completely different level from Phase 1 Thor, nor do we know why he did this (e.g. her awakened powers were too heavily intertwined with Asgard).

It is most likely that Odin used sorcery or deceit to defeat Surtur Prime,

Do you have any proof of this? Thor says he heard Odin defeated Surtur, Surtur confirms this, and is only marshalling his forces because he knows Odin isn't there to stop him:

You're going to put your crown into the Eternal Flame and then you'll suddenly grow as big as a house?

A mountain!

The Eternal Flame that Odin keeps locked away on Asgard?

Odin is not on Asgard. And your absence has left the throne defenseless.

Surtur is clearly crippled, as though he's been physically beaten:

Note the hunched pose, struggle to lift his sword, and the crooked and damaged right arm.

There is zero indication that he used sorcery or deceit to somehow badly wound and cripple Surtur (who even here is strong enough to strain Phase 3 Thor) when even Hela revered him in his prime as a warrior.

which is still his best implied feat yet too vague to apply here.

I don't see how. It's consistent with everything else we've seen from him.

Thor is stronger and more powerful than Odin by all intents and purposes.

This is factually false.

Odin, even in his prime, required the services of Hela and his army to loot the 9 realms. If he truly were more powerful than Surtur Prime, he wouldn't have needed them at all.

Um...what? Even in the comics, Odin frequently marshals his armies rather than use his full power. It's what you'd do if you enjoy the thrill of conquest.

He also would've been powerful enough to defeat and kill Hela or Malekith by himself

No proof he couldn't have defeated or killed her. She was his daughter, he's not going to just slaughter her. As for Malekith, he was waiting for the war to come to Asgard and was unbalanced by rage and grief. No way of knowing he couldn't have, especially since by that point he was apparently weakening from age or was approaching the Odinsleep:

Frankly, you're trying to lowball Odin.

@deltahuman:

No, actually I mentioned Odin not being able to break Loki's spell because the other guy said that weak Odin can hold off Hela. I just pointed out that the same weak Odin also couldn't break out of Loki's spell for years.

Fair.

I wouldn't consider Odin transforming Thor into a human or placing enhancements on Mjolnir as something that is relevant here. He clearly can't depower beings from all races cuz that would be NLF. He couldn't even physically face Hela in a fight, let alone depower her, and Hela is an Asgardian.

I agree it would be a NLF to say he can do that to anyone. But the Hela instance honestly reinforces this ability for Odin since we know it's not just something he can do to Thor because he's an Asgardian or his son. We know he couldn't do it to Hela which means that this ability has no relation to Asgardians or Odin's children. He legit just took the power away from someone as powerful as Thor, casually. Of course Thor didn't really understand his powers at the time but that's still an insane feat.

He kept Hela at bay not by fighting her physically and defeating her fair and square but by using sorcery to imprison her in a different realm. So Odin's ability of affecting Asgardians and Asgardian artifacts is clearly limited (I think it has something to do with some form of control he has over Mjolnir and the connection of Thor's powers to the hammer before it was retconned in Ragnarok)

I don't buy this tbh. It was never implied that Odin just has some control of artifacts that allows him to take Thor's powers. He also didn't just remove Mjolnir or Thor's lightning. He removed his physicals and transformed him into a human.

and so wouldn't be of any use against Wanda.

I'm not fully referring to him vs Wanda tbh. I think that's debatable. I'm just noting these abilities.

Odin's teleporting ability is also clearly mentioned to require Dark Energy which makes him weak and we don't know if it's instantaneous or requires other devices and rituals. Either way, it will not meaningfully effect the fight with Wanda at all.

Again I'm noting abilities for Odin because you said that Odin in his prime only had Asgardian stats and no innate abilities. I'm noting that even Odin far passed his prime has a number of abilities.

Let's not forget Wanda can snap Thanos's sword which is probably one of the strongest artifacts/weapons in the MCU, like a twig. Wanda is strong enough to crush Thanos with TK and by Russo Brother's own admission, Thanos is the most durable being in MCU.

Oh I'm aware of Wanda's power. She is the most powerful Avenger in the MCU by a notable amount IMO. I do wonder if that statement regarding Thanos was meant to include Odin or not considering he had likely passed away when the Russo's said that. Regardless I don't think Odin's feats are clear enough to place him above Wanda in pure power based off of what we've seen.

I don't see Odin standing a chance at all unless he has some instantaneous one shot magic which is highly unlikely. I've already explained how Thor, by the end of IW, should clearly be stronger by both feats and intent. The most likely explanation for Odin defeating Surtur is deceit. He probably stole the Eternal Flame in some way and that's how he had tamed Surtur all these years

There's a lot of assumptions that have to be made regarding Odin at the present time which is his main issue IMO. I disagree with you but I can't prove my case which is why I think Wanda might win this. I doubt Odin was intended to be weaker than Surtur in his prime tbh. At least by any notable extent. IIRC Surtur even said that Asgard was vulnerable to him due to Odin not being there. I doubt he would have such respect for Odin's power if Odin only beat him via trickery. As for Thor vs Odin that statement can be taken in different ways tbh. By all implication Odin in his prime is at least more powerful than Hela, which Thor was not. That alone raises some questions regarding what he said there.

Regardless Odin needs more feats or at least some clarification regarding what he's done before we can place him on the level I believe he is likely intended to be.

@amcu Odin is already stated to be the most powerful Asgardian, too. It's implied he holds back alot as well, since he doesn't actually need to use all of his power in a fight.

Also, Odin practically left Surtur atrophied, almost crippled him.

Surtur’s character was to be somewhat broken physically. We withered one of his arms, gave him a heavy limp and made him fairly lean, but when we did that, the fight with Thor looked too unevenly matched, so we beefed him up to Arnold Schwarzenegger type proportions. That looked too big so we toned him back down and didn’t make as much of his arm and leg being deformed.

Is it just me or is the OP high as a kite?

OT: Odin smacks

@rajjarsalt: Good points.

He prolly thinks this is a spite due to that username alone tbh

@rajjarsalt: yep. I can also hear Odin yelling as I read the title.

@avengergamer676: I wanted to see other people’s opinion because someone said SW and it made me laugh. So I thought I get opinions.

Odin should stomp both logically and by intent.

He got stomped by Loki...

When?

Probably Odin.

How do you think Loki got the throne of Asgard?

@breakofdawn:

Well you might think I'm trying to lowball Odin. I can do nothing about what people think. But I'd say I'm just being a realist. Most people would try to somehow build a relationship between comic Odin and MCU Odin by relating their ways, like you did. I'd say they are different characters with different powers altogether. For me, MCU Odin is an elite Asgardian with a knowledge of sorcery. That's it. No innate powers like Thor's ability to generate lightning from his body.

Let's address some of your points now.

Initially you said, dying Odin is strong enough to resist Hela. I said, same dying Odin couldn't break Loki's spell. And Odin wasn't even dying when Loki cast a spell on him. He was just mourning his wife. I didn't say it's a bad feat or a good one. I just showed you that, the dying Odin you've hyped up also couldn't counter a sorcerer who is treated like trash by Strange. That's it.

Odin shooting energy blasts from his spear is not his innate power. Loki can shoot energy blasts from the same spear as well. It's a feature of the weapon. Odin casting a spell on Mjolnir is most likely an ability that arises from his mastery over sorcery. Not his innate ability. He hasn't shown that he can cast spells on all weapons and artifacts. Assuming otherwise would be NLF and defy logic because he struggled against much lower tier beings like Malekith or couldn't depower the Casket of Winters and lost an eye fighting frost giants and couldn't do anything to Hela except lock her up. The daughter argument is baseless. He definitely wanted to kill Hela or else he wouldn't have sent an army of Valkyries to kill her. He definitely would kill Hela also because he knew she would cause Ragnarok and destroy all the nine realms including Asgard. He just can't kill or fight Hela tier beings. Hela would kill him had he faced her in battle.

You said Odin's powers are much more versatile than Wanda. That is true. But those powers aren't useful in battle. In terms of battle worthy powers, Odin has only a few and those aren't enough to counter Wanda at all. That's what I mean when I'm being a realist. I acknowledge that Odin is more versatile than Wanda but those powers accomplish nothing from a battle perspective.

Odin can't strip just about anyone who is Phase 1 Thor level or lower, of their powers. That's NLF. Odin's power clearly is limited in that domain. It's clearly evident that Odin can't do the power stripping even on all Asgardians. So this ability is of no use against Wanda.

As far as Surtur is concerned, yes I can't prove that he used deceit to defeat him but neither can you prove that Odin defeated him in a fair and square battle. Those statements don't indicate anything

So to sum up, I acknowledge that Odin is more versatile than Wanda. But those powers accomplish nothing in a battle with her. Odin isn't physically as strong or durable as Thor by either feats or statements and Wanda can just crush beings stronger and much more durable than Thor. Wanda can snap Uru weapons like twigs. Practically there's nothing Odin can do to defeat Wanda even with his intended powers. Wanda could causally snap him in half like a twig

@amcu:

Well yeah, I see where you're coming from. I'd certainly have liked Odin to be more fleshed out in terms of his abilities but relying on statements and implied powers in a battle is tough.

I think we can at least agree that Odin might have been more versatile than Wanda but most of that versatility isn't that useful from battle perspective. In practical terms and by feats, Wanda has far surpassed him and should be able to crush him with TK pretty easily

By hype Odin easily

By actual on screen feats the witch takes it

@deltahuman: Odin can use spells against Wanda who can only beat bricks with no AOE which Odin does she has to focus and Odin isn't allowing her to do that. Also anyone who can lock away Hela would be able to easily do the same to Wanda

@destinyman75:

No.

We don't know how Odin locked Hela. Was it an instantenous spell that created a portal to hell? Was some device involved? We know Odin had the tesseract earlier. Was some ritual involved? Nobody knows that. So this doesn't count as a win. In any case, battlefield BFR isn't a win anyway and there's no proof Odin can do it instantaneously

Odin has no AoE. He can just blast with his spear which Wanda can react to and block easily. Odin is a brick as well who can't fly like Thanos. What's worse, Thanos had an uru weapon, arguably equal to Stormbreaker in durability and Stormbreaker is mentioned to be more powerful than Odin's spear. Thanos was also one of the most skilled combatants of the MCU and was arguably the strongest and most durable being too. And Wanda snapped the uru sword like a twig and was just about to crush Thanos like a tin can.

Odin stands no chance against her

@rajjarsalt: that Odin was not prime Odin; it was end of life cycle Odin after destroying for like half a million years ago. Remember when he was speaking to Thor after the events of the dark elf attack he was weakened mid speech.

Loki most likely took advantage of the Odin sleep

@allfatherodin: @deltahuman: @rajjarsalt:

1. Odin conquered nine realms effortlessly

2. Defeated the frost giants

3. Defeated prime Surtur and took his eternal flame

4. No one has defeated Asgard or conquered it in those years

5. Singlehandedly saved Thor and the warriors 3 from an army of jotuns

6. Striped Loki of his jotun and turned him asgardian

7. Striped Thor of his power effortlessly amd pulled the hammer from him. He wills what he wants by saying it

8. Teleported Thor

9. Defeated hela and held her out

10. Knew about and where the stones were (dark world scene )

11. Thanos never dreamed of even challenging, always had to be sneaky.

12. Defeated hela twice once in the throne room and once in hel when the valkaries were slaughtered it’s explained in ragnarok

13. Odin wiped out the entire memory of asgardians of hela and her history

14. Odin was still powerful in the end where strange could not even question him and had to be nice and leave him alone or else

15. Odin is the reason timor grovelled at meeting sif and volgstaff

16. Wanda has not shown anything but being able to lift thanos, while Odin banishes beings more powerful than her (surtur, laufey, hela) and probably many more we don’t know about. Wanda can hit Odin with all she has and what will she do when he hits back because frankly she has shit durability she got stopped by Hawkeye lol

17. Odin has shown the ability to cast a spell/enchantment where no one but whom he deemed worthy can lift the hammer. Only cap was worthy no one else including thanos could. He did this with one sentence

There is a reason they killed of Odin he would have singlehandedly crushed everyone in endgame by himself. The fact that throughout the first three phases of the MCU no one dared to make a move until the bifrost was destroyed and the realms were cut off.

https://youtu.be/_rpVKIIfu5c

@deltahuman:

this is stated clearly in ragnarok.

1. He fought her twice. Once when she killed everyone in the throne room when Odin was away and he returned to Asgard defeated her and banished her to hel.

2. When she tried to end her banishment he sent the Valkyries in, whom she slaughtered. Then Odin when to hel and defeated her in battle and put a spell that her imprisonment is locked to his life

@emmafrostxmen: what if Odin rains odinforce? Or blasts her with the full power of the bifrost. What if she was doing her glowy thing getting ready he just strips her of her powers then sends her to space to die? What if he uses dark magic to turn her into a frog? What he just slaps her and crushed her skull? What if he just disintegrates her with the Odin force. What if he runs mlojnir storm breaker and gungnir into her head? What if he just wills her dead like he turned Loki to an asgardian or what he did when he made it so no one but whom he deemed worthy can use the hammer and we are talking universe of ppl? He just used a sentence to do this lol

Ok she tk Odin crushes him, he heals laughs and is back now what?

I have not seen Odin come close to being beaten while I’ve seen Hawkeye incapacitate Wanda quite easily

@allfatherodin: Odin has no combat speed feats while Wanda has contended with Thanos...

Wanda’s just going to grab him at the start and crush him

@allfatherodin:

Half of your statements are hyperboles without any proof. I won't go ahead and counter them one by one, too much work.

@deltahuman: please tell me which is hyperbole and I will provide examples from the mcu.

@emmafrostxmen: @deltahuman: he does have it you just have not paid attention they have not shown it but they have stated it. Watch the Thor movies again and the comics in between Thor and avengers

1. Full power surtur

2. Hela twice once in Asgard once in hel

3. Frost giants

4. Conquering the realms effortlessly

5. Able to teleport anyone anywhere

6. Never seen him even get hurt

7. Strip people of power

8. Wipe our memories of an entire generation (hela)

9. And made sure no one hurt any of the realms during his reign

10. His magic is the most powerful bar none . No one has come close to what he has done with magic. He even saw the infinity stone when it was in Jane (he isolated it in her veins)

That’s power not lifting up a thanos who did not even know who she was and even then thanos got out .... Odin has Magic , more durable, more powerful

What combat feats does Wanda have? She got stopped by mortals in every movie. She is glass canon nothing she can do will hurt the all father absolutely nothing. Maybe her parikash may give him diarrhea

Name one being who has grabbed Odin or put Odin in a bind during his prime? Any instance where he lost anything?

@allfatherodin: saying “he’s never gotten hurt” isn’t a durability feat, nice try though. I could say Wanda’s never gotten stabbed, but that doesn’t mean she has impenetrable skin.

Wanda’s combat speed >>> Odin

Wanda’s Rae power >>> Odin

Stop speculating, Odin’s never even teleported in the middle of a fight....

wanda effortlessly

By feats, Wanda most likely however what we know of lore, Odin would stomp

I completely agree with you