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#101 Edited by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@macleen said:

@rajjar: sorry I can't zoom enough to read it on my PC but what does it say? Also whats stopping DCEU SM from blitzing his head off? Does he have planetary or even tectonic level of durability?

Odin turned a cup, which was a relatively big cup, into a constellation...of a cup.

Clark's tectonic feat was a lifting feat. His striking feats aren't really tectonic level. Otherwise he would have slaughtered Doomsday and leveled the city they were battling in. If Clark was a tectonic plate - buster, then I would concede this point. But his maximum damage out put isn't that high. Based on MoS, I think it would somewhere around mountain level. If there is a bigger destruction feat Clark has, lemme know.

Independently, speed is the real problem for Odin. I think Odin has the durability to tank a few shots, but that is because of how he did versus Prime Surtur. Hela, who was tanking shots from Ragnarok Thor, got one-shotted by Surtur with a single strike. Hulk's punches were barely chipping Surtur's crown. In that sense, Odin would have to use energy manipulation on Clark, and since Clark normally bodies with his blitz rather than straight up blitz punches like Faora, I think distance wouldn't be too much of a problem.

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#102 Posted by incursion2 (1889 posts) - - Show Bio

Based on Odin beating Surtur he should have zero trouble stomping all of this team.....by actual feats the other way around..

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#103 Posted by macleen (3287 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar:

Odin turned a cup, which was a relatively big cup, into a constellation...of a cup.

Clark's tectonic feat was a lifting feat. His striking feats aren't really tectonic level. Otherwise he would have slaughtered Doomsday and leveled the city they were battling in.

His neck is toast also the striking feats will be for someone who is stronger than a planet the difference between lifting and striking isn't that big especially if you have the speed. He wouldn't have slaughtered DD regardless because DD was stated to be unkillable.

Independently, speed is the real problem for Odin. I think Odin has the durability to tank a few shots, but that is because of how he did versus Prime Surtur. Hela, who was tanking shots from Ragnarok Thor, got one-shotted by Surtur with a single strike. Hulk's punches were barely chipping Surtur's crown. In that sense, Odin would have to use energy manipulation on Clark, and since Clark normally bodies with his blitz rather than straight up blitz punches like Faora, I think distance wouldn't be too much of a problem.

I doubt that, not even Thor has that level blunt force durability and Odin stated he was stronger than him. Hela wasn't oneshotted by Surtur, Asgard blowing up did ( which was a special circumstance) and that was an energy durability feat. Surturs standard attacks weren't on that level.

Clark blitz grappled WW, Blitz grappled The African warlord, blitz grappled Batman (rammed him through a building rather than hit him outright), The Flash instance shows he can indeed blitz with rapid punches. I can see him ramming Odin into the earth crust, he's not surviving that.

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#104 Posted by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@macleen said:

@rajjar:

His neck is toast also the striking feats will be for someone who is stronger than a planet the difference between lifting and striking isn't that big especially if you have the speed. He wouldn't have slaughtered DD regardless because DD was stated to be unkillable.

So if Wonder Woman cut off DD's head, what would have happened?

I doubt that, not even Thor has that level blunt force durability and Odin stated he was stronger than him. Hela wasn't oneshotted by Surtur, Asgard blowing up did ( which was a special circumstance) and that was an energy durability feat. Surturs standard attacks weren't on that level.

Yeah, but Odin initially got wrecked by Loki magically (he complimented him for that spell) and he faded away. Ragnarok Odin was minutes away from dying, and "You're stronger" was motivation referring to "Asgard is not a place," otherwise Thor would have been able to beat up Hela, then Surtur.

I don't know about Hela not getting one-shotted. We don't see her body after it gets hit with that big sword.

Clark blitz grappled WW, Blitz grappled The African warlord, blitz grappled Batman (rammed him through a building rather than hit him outright), The Flash instance shows he can indeed blitz with rapid punches. I can see him ramming Odin into the earth crust, he's not surviving that.

Why would he start out with his strongest attack? He didn't do that even in Justice League, and if he is gonna blitz grapple like that, he won't be dodging any of Odin's attacks before Odin starts using the nifty magic.

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#105 Posted by macleen (3287 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar: So if Wonder Woman cut off DD's head, what would have happened?

Dunno, that was what's stated, featwise I know that's a NLF

Yeah, but Odin initially got wrecked by Loki magically (he complimented him for that spell) and he faded away. Ragnarok Odin was minutes away from dying, and "You're stronger" was motivation referring to "Asgard is not a place," otherwise Thor would have been able to beat up Hela, then Surtur.

Even his prime self doesn't have tectonic level durability let alone planetary durability

I don't know about Hela not getting one-shotted. We don't see her body after it gets hit with that big sword.

Hela was far away from Surtur for his basic attacks, but she was still on Asgard when it blew up

Why would he start out with his strongest attack? He didn't do that even in Justice League, and if he is gonna blitz grapple like that, he won't be dodging any of Odin's attacks before Odin starts using the nifty magic.

because that's in character for him to do so and the fact that battle forum rules warranty it. He doesn't even have to use his planetary strength because that's overkill, just a fraction of it. Why would he need to dodge a statue? Show me feats of Odin operating at SM's speed for him to retaliate?

Also I forgot to ask, did Odin use an incantation for the cup spell or did he just do it with a thought?

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#106 Edited by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@macleen said:

@rajjar:

Dunno, that was what's stated, featwise I know that's a NLF

Didn't she cut his arm off?

Even his prime self doesn't have tectonic level durability let alone planetary durability

Neither does Clark. MB's are only surface level, too.

Hela was far away from Surtur for his basic attacks, but she was still on Asgard when it blew up

How do you know she was alive after he hit her? I don't recall seeing her afterwards.

because that's in character for him to do so and the fact that battle forum rules warranty it. He doesn't even have to use his planetary strength because that's overkill, just a fraction of it.

Unless you are saying Clark can one-shot Prime Surtur easily with this method, then I think it wouldn't be as easy as that.

Why would he need to dodge a statue? Show me feats of Odin operating at SM's speed for him to retaliate?

He wouldn't need to IIRC. Kryptonians don't have hax resistance nor start statue-ing unless someone pulls a Barry Allen on them.

Also I forgot to ask, did Odin use an incantation for the cup spell or did he just do it with a thought?

It definitely wasn't an incantation, because he dispersed the cup. As far as I can remember for all the feats presented, Odin's only incantation is on Mjolnir. Otherwise, he waves his hands around - which is usually his energy manipulation on-screen, or Bifrost manipulation on-panel. I just assumed it was magic because the cup itself is a magic cup that amps strength and is made from the threads of the Fates, and so is the ridiculous nature of the feat.

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#107 Edited by macleen (3287 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar: Didn't she cut his arm off?

She did, feats contradict the statement which isn't part of my original stand

Neither does Clark. MB's are only surface level, too.

he does, he tanked motherbox energy ( it's the basis of him being stronger than a planet) any other being couldn't possibly handle that power.

How do you know she was alive after he hit her? I don't recall seeing her afterwards.

The better question is how do you know Surtur hit Hela? because AFAIK she didn't

Unless you are saying Clark can one-shot Prime Surtur easily with this method, then I think it wouldn't be as easy as that.

yes if we got by statements and implied power, Surtur is virtually featless durability-wise, he's just big and SM has the strength to handle big.

He wouldn't need to IIRC. Kryptonians don't have hax resistance nor start statue-ing unless someone pulls a Barry Allen on them.

that's some lame counter. Clark's superspeed doesn't activate only when he's facing a speedsters, and forum rules disagree with you, characters fight to the best of their abilities. You trying to use PIS in your favor isn't going to work.

It definitely wasn't an incantation, because he dispersed the cup. As far as I can remember for all the feats presented, Odin's only incantation is on Mjolnir. Otherwise, he waves his hands around - which is usually his energy manipulation on-screen, or Bifrost manipulation on-panel. I just assumed it was magic because the cup itself is a magic cup that amps strength and is made from the threads of the Fates, and so is the ridiculous nature of the feat.

Regardless he still needs to be as fast as Clark which he isn't.

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#108 Edited by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@macleen said:

@rajjar:

She did, feats contradict the statement which isn't part of my original stand

That means he isn't unkillable, though.

he does, he tanked motherbox energy ( it's the basis of him being stronger than a planet) any other being couldn't possibly handle that power.

How does one become stronger than a planet? Because AFAIK, that is just a statement about energy durability because of the quote "A human being can only absorb so much" out of

My father thought that he could use the Mother Box to rebuild the broken parts of me with a few cybernetic enhancements. Instead, he built a living machine. I may be stronger than its host. Too much. Too much life. What's on your weird mind? Muscles. Coordination. Basic cellular integrity. A human being can only absorb so much. The Mother Box was designed to reshape a planet. So? So... What if you were stronger than a planet? Your cells lying dormant, but incapable of decay. Read more: https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/movie_script.php?movie=justice-league

Independently, that's bunk, because that turns surface-level forces into planetary forces, and I think that statement is a bad standard for debate and inconsistent with Clark's nuke level energy durability.

The better question is how do you know Surtur hit Hela? because AFAIK she didn't

No Caption Provided

yes if we got by statements and implied power, Surtur is virtually featless durability-wise, he's just big and SM has the strength to handle big.

He wouldn't need to IIRC. Kryptonians don't have hax resistance nor start statue-ing unless someone pulls a Barry Allen on them.

that's some lame counter. Clark's superspeed doesn't activate only when he's facing a speedsters, and forum rules disagree with you, characters fight to the best of their abilities. You trying to use PIS in your favor isn't going to work.

Clark only used it once against a speedster and another time to dodge Steppy's punches, and all offensive strikes against Steppy were at normal speed. And if characters fight to the best of their abilities, Odin is in his prime, and wouldn't be shaken by shots that Steppenwolf of all people managed to endure. He is physically under Clark. Clark isn't this superspeed demon unless he is bloodlusted, and forum rules would have us assume in-character since OP says nothing about it. Independently, Odin's energy manipulation should be enough to defend himself for a bit. Independently, his Bifrost BFRs via dark energy and his ability to seal Hela in Hel can be counters to delay Clark.

Independently, Thanos used that same BFR strat against Glads to avoid having to fight him when he and Adam were stomping the Annihilators.

Regardless he still needs to be as fast as Clark which he isn't.

Was Doomsday as fast as Clark? Odin can strike him down if Clark goes for a blitz-grapple. Independently, this is team effort, so Clark will be working together with WW if it is in-character.

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#109 Posted by macleen (3287 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar:That means he isn't unkillable, though.

What's your point? Read post 86.

How does one become stronger than a planet? Because AFAIK, that is just a statement about energy durability because of the quote "A human being can only absorb so much" out of

It wasn't specified. And strength is strength. Point in case is SM was stated to be stronger than a planet and thus his body could handle forces that can reshape an entire planet.

Independently, that's bunk, because that turns surface-level forces into planetary forces, and I think that statement is a bad standard for debate and inconsistent with Clark's nuke level energy durability.

Not just surface the tendrils were burrowing inside the earth as we saw in JL. The rest of your arguments are irrelevant because you haven't read post 86. And talking about consistency when has Odin replicated the cup feat?

He wouldn't need to IIRC. Kryptonians don't have hax resistance nor start statue-ing unless someone pulls a Barry Allen on them.

Kryptonians have statue hax, only someone in denial would disagree. Your only argument is when Clark fights his equals/superiors(making him not look fast) and guys he himself states that he doesn't want to kill them using speed. He has the speed, he has used his speed in all his fights even when he holds back, you have no argument as to why he won't use his speed.

And BTW Barry isn't the only person he's pulled out his speed on, he did the same thing against WW and SW only he wasn't even trying and was goofing around, that won't work with forum rules.

Clark only used it once against a speedster and another time to dodge Steppy's punches, and all offensive strikes against Steppy were at normal speed. And if characters fight to the best of their abilities, Odin is in his prime, and wouldn't be shaken by shots that Steppenwolf of all people managed to endure. He is physically under Clark. Clark isn't this superspeed demon unless he is bloodlusted, and forum rules would have us assume in-character since OP says nothing about it. Independently, Odin's energy manipulation should be enough to defend himself for a bit. Independently, his Bifrost BFRs via dark energy and his ability to seal Hela in Hel can be counters to delay Clark.

False Clark has used his speed against Faora, Nam-Ek, Zod, African Waarlord, DD, WW, Barry, Batman, SW. That shows a lot of consistency. Odin has no blunt durability feats and would be destroyed by planet level strength. Prime Odin even got his eye busted by eye SW would skewer him.

Forum rules states in character and best of their abilities, no PIS, WIS. Clark blitzes come back with Odin's speed feats and we'll talk. Odin's energy manipulation doesn't grant him speed nor blunt force durability.

Independently, Thanos used that same BFR strat against Glads to avoid having to fight him when he and Adam were stomping the Annihilators.

Irrelevant

Was Doomsday as fast as Clark? Odin can strike him down if Clark goes for a blitz-grapple. Independently, this is team effort, so Clark will be working together with WW if it is in-character.

DD was a kryptonian so yes. Odin isn't striking him down when he is dead because he couldn't even see SM coming.

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#110 Posted by DammeFavour (8292 posts) - - Show Bio

MCU Odin is fodder. The statements contradict his actual power level since we see Odin in his prime face the frost giants and lost an eye. He probably did used the bifrost to remove surtur's crown and siphoned his flames, nothing proving he actually fought him, even thor doesn't know what actually happened according to his 'statement'

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#111 Posted by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

MCU Odin is fodder. The statements contradict his actual power level since we see Odin in his prime face the frost giants and lost an eye.

Not Prime Odin but whatever. It isn't like offensive and defensive feats are split or anything.

He probably did used the bifrost to remove surtur's crown

Headcanon, Surtur's crown is on his head when Thor meets him at the beginning of Ragnarok.

and siphoned his flames,

TF? The Bifrost can siphon flames now? Headcanon and reaching, mate.

nothing proving he actually fought him,

You are the one who said Zeus created an island in an instant. That's an unequal burden of proof, considering that all of those Zeus feats you are relying on came out of a picture book and are about as valid as Thor's statements.

even thor doesn't know what actually happened according to his 'statement'

But Surtur does. And Surtur's was beaten(confirmed), his power taken away(confirmed), and left for dead on Muspelheim (Thor's statements>headcanon). Unfortunately, plot armor protects Surtur from dying(confirmed), which is why Thor thought wrong(confirmed).

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#112 Edited by DammeFavour (8292 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar: I mean he was prime enough since he wasnt as weak as he was in his old age plus that fight was 1000 years ago. Even when he had hela, he still needed his entire army to conquer the realms. He's not some super powerful God you seem to think he is.

Yeah and somehow the eternal flame was taken from him and put on that pedestal thing,we don't know how the event went but we know for a fact from all the fights we've seen Odin in, even Bor, neither displayed power on the scale of surtur, the only thing powerful enough to sever surtur from his crown would be the bifrost, and dealing with little surtur would be easy. I mean they did take the flame from him, do you happen to know how? Because it doesn't seem to be apart from surtur in any way, it would have had to be siphoned away somehow.

My claim that Zeus did those things would be valid because ares who hates his father so much also confirmed it and the fact that he created humanity.

Lol Thor didn't even know he had a sister, any statement that would have come from him is nor entirely reliable. No one is denying the fact that surtur was beaten, how he was beaten is the issue, the asgardians also beat kurse but we have the context on how he died, we do not in the case of surtur. Saying Odin is capable of beating him is just reaching since it doesn't match up with any of his onscreen feats and the fact that it lacks context

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#113 Posted by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar: I mean he was prime enough since he wasnt as weak as he was in his old age plus that fight was 1000 years ago. Even when he had hela, he still needed his entire army to conquer the realms. He's not some super powerful God you seem to think he is

Sure, but so did Zeus, who could have been pulling those godly feats on those fodders. I only emphasize this because people say Zeus's lightning is multi-continent to planet level because of the MB feat. I recognize that Odin's piercing durability is kinda arse, but he was still old when Thor was young. Surtur Prime was either back in Hela's days or pre-Hela. It is most likely pre-Hela because even Thor was able to recognize Surtur even though he has never seen him before. And Hela got one-shot by Surtur's sword.

And honestly, I got no problem with using the Bifrost as a combat application - it is just that on this site, it is hard to debate because there are few willing to debate it as that.

But the problem about Gods is that they aren't Kryptonians with the ability to easily renew their energy resources. Plus, it isn't like Odin was trying to go all out on those realms. Otherwise, 8x Bifrost, and 9 realms -> 1 Realm, the Eternal Realm Asgard. I'm just saying if we go on all statements from movies, tie-ins, and prequels, Odin's offensive magic is broken powerful, which make him some sort of Asgardian glass cannon by his old age, kinda how Strange is a human glass cannon.

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#114 Posted by CyberpunkCop (2971 posts) - - Show Bio

How is Odin beating Surtur not an actual feat are people high??? anyway it's enough for him to stomp this team

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#115 Posted by CyberpunkCop (2971 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar said:
@macleen said:

@rajjar: sorry I can't zoom enough to read it on my PC but what does it say? Also whats stopping DCEU SM from blitzing his head off? Does he have planetary or even tectonic level of durability?

Odin turned a cup, which was a relatively big cup, into a constellation...of a cup.

Clark's tectonic feat was a lifting feat. His striking feats aren't really tectonic level. Otherwise he would have slaughtered Doomsday and leveled the city they were battling in. If Clark was a tectonic plate - buster, then I would concede this point. But his maximum damage out put isn't that high. Based on MoS, I think it would somewhere around mountain level. If there is a bigger destruction feat Clark has, lemme know.

Independently, speed is the real problem for Odin. I think Odin has the durability to tank a few shots, but that is because of how he did versus Prime Surtur. Hela, who was tanking shots from Ragnarok Thor, got one-shotted by Surtur with a single strike. Hulk's punches were barely chipping Surtur's crown. In that sense, Odin would have to use energy manipulation on Clark, and since Clark normally bodies with his blitz rather than straight up blitz punches like Faora, I think distance wouldn't be too much of a problem.

He said 'dispersed' I take that as he spread pieces of it into the stars not made actual stars from the cup

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#116 Posted by DammeFavour (8292 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar: for the record, I don't think think zeus' lightning is planet level or anywhere close, it is powerful but it is nowhere close to that. Thor was also able to recognize the dark elves even though Odin had never seen one, they have books and history stuff to remind them.

We already know the bifrost creates a rune on impact and has snatched things away from the battle field before so it should easily be able to do the same to surtur given his durability.

There's no really going all out if we have no basis on how much more powerful he is than he's been depicted. I mean it took one kurse and one dark elf mothership on the asgardian home turf to bring asgard to its knees and they were helpless to do anything. Some of the tie-ins are non canon, the canon ones don't depict Odin as broken anything

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#117 Edited by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@DammeFavour said:

@rajjar: for the record, I don't think think zeus' lightning is planet level or anywhere close, it is powerful but it is nowhere close to that.

Oh thank god.

Thor was also able to recognize the dark elves even though Odin had never seen one, they have books and history stuff to remind them.

Yeah, I forgot about that lol.

We already know the bifrost creates a rune on impact and has snatched things away from the battle field before so it should easily be able to do the same to surtur given his durability.

Were that so, it wouldn't have been Odin's kill. But Odin can remotely activate Bifrost energies, so that might be possible. The only problem is, the Eternal Flame isn't something that lies in Surtur's chest or any part of his body, based on his appearance as Surtur Prime, and that since it is fire that keeps on burning, I don't think fire can just be transported like solids can. The Bifrost would then have to have its own energy manipulation abilities, and if it can do that to an infinite source of fire, it can be used as a weapon in these LA battles.

I mean, it is all up to interpretation, but if Odin is using his bifrost as a tractor beam, then that has its own application to this thread.

There's no really going all out if we have no basis on how much more powerful he is than he's been depicted. I mean it took one kurse and one dark elf mothership on the asgardian home turf to bring asgard to its knees and they were helpless to do anything.

Odin's been inactive (in regard to military readiness) and peace-loving for somewhere under 1500 years (depending on when that Tonsberg battle took place relative to Thor's birth). I think it might be generational, and the fact that as you said, he's never seen a Dark Elf before, and he's the oldest one in Asgard. Independently, he was slow moving around in the invasion, and Kurse took them out from the inside - the ship, which was cloaked and only visible to Heimdall, had to kamikaze itself for the surprise attack invasion to take place. I mean there isn't a standard for people being able to handle such things without prep anyway, especially when your enemy is armed to the teeth with rifles that pierce your armor and black hole grenades that bypass durability.

Remember, Bor, who is more featless than Odin, managed to turn Dark Elves into an endangered species without having a man on the inside in less than a day. And Odin was 2 years from dying, anyway.

Some of the tie-ins are non canon, the canon ones don't depict Odin as broken anything

Well, yeah, but those are specified as non-canon before hand. While the preludes that aren't specified usually blatantly contradict what happened on screen, and can be thrown out.

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#118 Edited by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@cyberpunkcop said:
@rajjar said:
@macleen said:

@rajjar: sorry I can't zoom enough to read it on my PC but what does it say? Also whats stopping DCEU SM from blitzing his head off? Does he have planetary or even tectonic level of durability?

Odin turned a cup, which was a relatively big cup, into a constellation...of a cup.

Clark's tectonic feat was a lifting feat. His striking feats aren't really tectonic level. Otherwise he would have slaughtered Doomsday and leveled the city they were battling in. If Clark was a tectonic plate - buster, then I would concede this point. But his maximum damage out put isn't that high. Based on MoS, I think it would somewhere around mountain level. If there is a bigger destruction feat Clark has, lemme know.

Independently, speed is the real problem for Odin. I think Odin has the durability to tank a few shots, but that is because of how he did versus Prime Surtur. Hela, who was tanking shots from Ragnarok Thor, got one-shotted by Surtur with a single strike. Hulk's punches were barely chipping Surtur's crown. In that sense, Odin would have to use energy manipulation on Clark, and since Clark normally bodies with his blitz rather than straight up blitz punches like Faora, I think distance wouldn't be too much of a problem.

He said 'dispersed' I take that as he spread pieces of it into the stars not made actual stars from the cup

On panel > statements. There is a constellation of a cup. Whether he made stars or moved stars into that shape is up for debate, but it is headcanon to assume that the constellation already existed, because that would also contradict Thor's statements. Even if the stars are the size of moons, which they aren't, based on luminosity alone, that is still a massive feat.

If you are right, that is some broken BFR power.

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#119 Posted by IndomitableRegal (15692 posts) - - Show Bio

Hasn't Odin done nothing? He's all hype and not even much of it. And being that he's dead, we're not gonna see any feats for him. Team stomps.

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#120 Edited by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@macleen said:

@rajjar:

What's your point? Read post 86.

Post 86 only says what you think the result will be.

It wasn't specified. And strength is strength. Point in case is SM was stated to be stronger than a planet and

That doesn't matter. Superman's been phased by the same guy's sonics before and had to shield himself with metal. Sure, the material of planets is extremely weak compared to Kryptonian tissue. \

thus his body could handle forces that can reshape an entire planet.

Not combat applicable. The MB's are slow as hell. Terraforming does not = busting. Otherwise MCU Ego is a universe-buster.

Your underlined words just made this a durability claim, which means that planetary offensive stats of Clark are not based on anything.

Independently, since the MB's take their time at terraforming, it is most likely to say Clark only received the energy that the MB's released for the time it took to revive him. That's supported by the fact that when the Unity is on, it is a gradual AoE spread over time.

Not just surface the tendrils were burrowing inside the earth as we saw in JL.

Extremely slowly.

The rest of your arguments are irrelevant because you haven't read post 86.

@macleen said:

Based on statements and implications Team stomps in a spite match, based on feats team curbstomps again. There is no way Odin is winning.

Nothing relevant in Post 86 here.

And talking about consistency when has Odin replicated the cup feat?

Why does he need to? When has Clark showed planetary strength? 616 Odin when written by Jason Aaron claims he is omnipotent all the time, even though Thor wrecked his a$$ in the last issue.

Atleast Odin has a feat. Clark just has statements and an off-screen tectonic plate, which he shifted.

No Caption Provided

He didn't lift the plate, and he didn't bust it either. That's like saying if I manage to push or shift a car, I am somehow car-level.

Kryptonians have statue hax, only someone in denial would disagree.

That's not hax. Clark isn't some phasing speedster who can speed steal and IMP all in the same picosecond.

Your only argument is when Clark fights his equals/superiors(making him not look fast) and guys he himself states that he doesn't want to kill them using speed. He has the speed, he has used his speed in all his fights even when he holds back, you have no argument as to why he won't use his speed.

Clark doesn't consistently fight at statue reaction speed. He uses his speed to blitz-grapple.

And BTW Barry isn't the only person he's pulled out his speed on,

Yeah, I mentioned Steppy.

he did the same thing against WW

What's this?

and SW only he wasn't even trying and was goofing around

Yeah, because he was fodderizing Steppy, and because Steppy was telegraphing his punches right when he started running at Clark.

that won't work with forum rules.

False Clark has used his speed against Faora, Nam-Ek, Zod, African Waarlord, DD, WW, Barry, Batman, SW.

False BArry is the first time for statueing. That ain't consistency.

That shows a lot of consistency. Odin has no blunt durability feats

And Clark isn't even nuke-level. He got flash-fried.

and would be destroyed by planet level strength.

And Clark would get KOed by any yield above 400 kilotons.

Prime Odin even got his eye busted by eye SW would skewer him.

That ax has no energy durability feats. And Jotunheim ice isn't real ice - the planet couldn't hold itself together if it was made of frozen H2O.

Forum rules states in character and best of their abilities, no PIS, WIS.

So Odin won't get his eye busted by ice in order to look more like the Odin of mythology. Prime Odin has both eyes and is above Surtur, who one-shotted Hela, as I proved in my gif.

Clark blitzes come back with Odin's speed feats and we'll talk.

Come back with Clark's energy durability feats and we will talk. Equal burdens here, and neither can actually be satisfied.

Odin's energy manipulation doesn't grant him speed nor blunt force durability.

Clark's speed doesn't grant him planetary striking power nor nuke level energy durability.

DD was a kryptonian so yes.

So now you are scaling off all the best Kryptonian feats, even though DD was demolishing Clark?

Odin isn't striking him down when he is dead because he couldn't even see SM coming.

He will when Clark is going to blitz-grapple with him mid-flight. Sure, he isn't tagging Clark outside of an AoE spell, but Clark will take care of that tagging problem by his own blitz-grappling.

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#121 Posted by cliffrice (1089 posts) - - Show Bio

Odin lost an eye to frost giant equipped with an Uber artifact. Cask of ancient winters.

Odin can transform things into stars.

Thor's comment reguarding odin killing surtur who was at full continant busting power, it also seemed casual as to such a feat being easy for odin.

We don't get to see his weapons do much but they are probably similarly powered to mjolnir but probably not on par with stormbreaker.

Can dimensionally travel.

Loki got the jump on Odin because he was distracted by his wife's death, he kind of lost his will to live.

I don't know who would win but it's things to consider.

Some things to consider.

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#122 Posted by Mister_Surreal (9246 posts) - - Show Bio

Odin can come back when he gets actual feats.

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#123 Posted by wacko_from_waco (235 posts) - - Show Bio

Odin doesn’t have the feats to take any of them.

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#124 Edited by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_surreal said:

Odin can come back when he gets actual feats.

@wacko_from_waco said:

Odin doesn’t have the feats to take any of them.

He has the cup feat, which is the only reason I bumped this thread.

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#125 Posted by Mister_Surreal (9246 posts) - - Show Bio
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#126 Edited by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_surreal said:

@rajjar: What cup feat?

No Caption Provided

I know it is ridiculous, but so is any battle that has MCU Odin in it.

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#127 Posted by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

Odin lost an eye to frost giant equipped with an Uber artifact. Cask of ancient winters.

Odin can transform things into stars.

Thor's comment reguarding odin killing surtur who was at full continant busting power, it also seemed casual as to such a feat being easy for odin.

We don't get to see his weapons do much but they are probably similarly powered to mjolnir but probably not on par with stormbreaker.

Can dimensionally travel.

Loki got the jump on Odin because he was distracted by his wife's death, he kind of lost his will to live.

I don't know who would win but it's things to consider.

Some things to consider.

He did eventually break Loki's depowering spell, though. Do we know if Odin was the one who got Eitri to get the Stormbreaker mold? He did say, weapon for a king. Odin told Thor during the coronation ceremony in Thor 1 that Mjolnir was a weapon of a king, but he was lying left and right during his speech (Frigga even looked at him when he said "firstborn").

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#128 Posted by Mister_Surreal (9246 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar: If you think that it’s ridiculous then why use that as a feat?

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#129 Edited by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_surreal said:

@rajjar: If you think that it’s ridiculous then why use that as a feat?

Because there is no feat standard for MCU Odin. There are only ridiculous low-end feats and ridiculous high-end feats. The point is, Odin isn't featless without the exclusion of certain feats. This serves no purpose, since there is no purpose in debating featless characters. In that case, using this feat yields a better debate than "featless Odin," which isn't a debate at all. This allows at least some debate over the character.

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#130 Posted by Mister_Surreal (9246 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar: I suppose that makes sense. But either way that feat can’t be applied to an actual fight unless we make heavy assumptions.

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#131 Edited by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_surreal said:

@rajjar: I suppose that makes sense. But either way that feat can’t be applied to an actual fight unless we make heavy assumptions.

Yeah, I regret bumping this thread in particular. Now I'm debating star-level Odin vs planetary speedster Superman.

Now, there was the MCU Odin vs Ego thread, which would allow statements. But what assumptions are you referring to?

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#132 Posted by Mister_Surreal (9246 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar: Assumptions like “Odin can rearrange stars so that means he can BFR everyone by throwing them into space”.

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#133 Edited by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_surreal said:

@rajjar: Assumptions like “Odin can rearrange stars so that means he can BFR everyone by throwing them into space”.

Speaking of which...

No Caption Provided

He'd hurt a bit, but this is Prime Odin. Heimdall couldn't manage the same without summoning the power of the All-Fathers. Thor was weakened enough for the Iron Man fight to happen.

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#134 Posted by SuperVision123 (378 posts) - - Show Bio

Odin being able to rearrange stars speaks loads about his power level. He wins.

Online
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#135 Edited by Mister_Surreal (9246 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar: Statue force lol. But how was Thor weakned, I just assumed that he was holding back?

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#136 Edited by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_surreal said:

@rajjar: Statue force lol. But how was Thor weakned, I just assumed that he was holding back?

Odin told Thor that the transport would also cost him. I would have just taken that as a statement, but then Thor just had to NYEEAARGH before getting blasted.

No Caption Provided

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#137 Posted by Mister_Surreal (9246 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar: I would call that a canonical scan. Thank you.

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#138 Posted by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar: I would call that a canonical scan. Thank you.

No problem. Loki somehow knew of it the moment he saw Thor. Even though Loki is the master of exiting Asgard through non-Bifrost manners.

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#139 Posted by Darkthunder (1170 posts) - - Show Bio

@marvelanddcfan24: Odin is featless but by statements he wins. Thor isn't stronger than Odin. He defeated prime surtur. Prime surtur is a planet buster. Yeah MCU power levels are weird. Thor can't beat hela who is beaten by surtur. Odin beats surtur and yet he says Thor is stronger than him. Even hela is.

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#140 Posted by macleen (3287 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar: Post 86 only says what you think the result will be.

Then why keep on contradicting my arguments when I made it crystal clear on both feats and statements?

That doesn't matter. Superman's been phased by the same guy's sonics before and had to shield himself with metal. Sure, the material of planets is extremely weak compared to Kryptonian tissue. \

300dB is better than anything Odin's taken.

Not combat applicable. The MB's are slow as hell. Terraforming does not = busting. Otherwise MCU Ego is a universe-buster.

And your cup feat is also not combat applicable. Turning cups does not = turning beings you can't perceive. 2 can play this game.

Your underlined words just made this a durability claim, which means that planetary offensive stats of Clark are not based on anything.

Based on his strength which is clearly stated and implied for all intents and purposes you're just in denial which is understandable, I would too if I was arguing for Odin.

Independently, since the MB's take their time at terraforming, it is most likely to say Clark only received the energy that the MB's released for the time it took to revive him. That's supported by the fact that when the Unity is on, it is a gradual AoE spread over time.

Based on? The whole Batman explanation specifically stated the energy produced by the motherbox would be too much for anyone that wasn't planet level, there was nothing mentioned about the dosage. That's just your headcanon.

Why does he need to? When has Clark showed planetary strength? 616 Odin when written by Jason Aaron claims he is omnipotent all the time, even though Thor wrecked his a$$ in the last issue.

Ah, we're back to this, my answer is go back and read post 86.

Atleast Odin has a feat. Clark just has statements and an off-screen tectonic plate, which he shifted.

If you want to debate feats I'm game. If you want to debate statements and implied power , I'm game. Like I said before and I'm going to say it again, Odin gets stomped either way. Based on feats he's pathetic, based of statements and offscreen feats he still gets steamrolled.

He didn't lift the plate, and he didn't bust it either. That's like saying if I manage to push or shift a car, I am somehow car-level.

He shifted, who said anything about lifting? That's a poor analogy, car has wheels to reduce the load, the better analogy would be pushing a car with no wheels and also having durable bones and skin compared to a car then you'd be car level.

That's not hax. Clark isn't some phasing speedster who can speed steal and IMP all in the same picosecond.

I'm pretty sure I specified the type of hax to be statue-hax, not phasing, not speed steal and definitely not IMP. Read my posts carefully. SM still statues Odin, you've got not answer for that.

Clark doesn't consistently fight at statue reaction speed. He uses his speed to blitz-grapple.

And I gave you a very reasonable explanation as to why. Faora, Nam-Ek, DD, Zod. These guys are Kryptonians, how is Clark supposed to statue them? Batman, he was holding back and even mentioned it and yet there are 2 instances of him using it. Flash was slightly faster than him. He wasn't even trying with SW. So yes SM does indeed fight at statue speeds, it's his opponents that are fast or him holding back which he won't here.

Yeah, because he was fodderizing Steppy, and because Steppy was telegraphing his punches right when he started running at Clark.

No steppy was slow, slow people are slow. He threw his punch like any other person would, Clark was just too fast for him to tag.

False BArry is the first time for statueing. That ain't consistency.

Wrong again, Barry is the first person he's fought without holding back that wasn't Kryptonian.

And Clark isn't even nuke-level. He got flash-fried.

Odin isn't even ice level, he got blinded

And Clark would get KOed by any yield above 400 kilotons.

And Odin would be killed by ice shards, your point?

That ax has no energy durability feats. And Jotunheim ice isn't real ice - the planet couldn't hold itself together if it was made of frozen H2O.

Based on what? Since when is ice not ice? It's fiction, Asgard has a river that flows into space yet it has gravity. You know what else is interesting about Jotunheim? They don't practice farming yet they sustain themselves while Loki who is a frost giant drinks and eats like regular Asgarddians.

So Odin won't get his eye busted by ice in order to look more like the Odin of mythology. Prime Odin has both eyes and is above Surtur, who one-shotted Hela, as I proved in my gif.

So SM would shift tectonic plates so that he would be more like his old version and be stronger than a planet like his comic counterparts. Prime Odin got his eye busted go rewatch scene with the war between Asgardians and frost giants.

Come back with Clark's energy durability feats and we will talk. Equal burdens here, and neither can actually be satisfied.

He took a nuke, WE, motherbox What are Odin's bluntforce feats again?

Clark's speed doesn't grant him planetary striking power nor nuke level energy durability.

Never said it would, but he still rips Odin to pieces.

So now you are scaling off all the best Kryptonian feats, even though DD was demolishing Clark?

Says the kettle to the pot.

He will when Clark is going to blitz-grapple with him mid-flight. Sure, he isn't tagging Clark outside of an AoE spell, but Clark will take care of that tagging problem by his own blitz-grappling.

No, he won't. He is not only not tagging Clark, but he is not perceiving him, and even when he miraculously doe end up perceiving Clark he would be dead by then.

And this is not taking into account decapitation from WW, SW and clobbering from DD.

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#141 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (10547 posts) - - Show Bio

Imagine arguing for Odin one shotting DCEU's top tiers. Lmao.

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#142 Edited by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebestofthebest said:

Imagine arguing for Odin one shotting DCEU's top tiers. Lmao.

Well, we have to take statements and tie-ins for him, just like we take statements and picture books for Zeus. There is no purpose in ruling out anything, because that just makes him featless and any battle with him worthless.

Honestly, I'm just baiting wank out by using slightly more legitimate forms of wank. I know on a reasonable level, MCU Odin has no chance of winning.

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#143 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (10547 posts) - - Show Bio

@rajjar: First, I never took those statements regarding Zeus's implied powers into account just like I never took the tectonic plate statements which was first confirmed in the tie ins, seriously. Second, Odin is indeed featless. Third, there is no legitimate form of wank.

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#144 Posted by Bayman007 (1314 posts) - - Show Bio

Odin doesn't stand a chance. Mismatch.

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#145 Posted by cliffrice (1089 posts) - - Show Bio

Odin can transform matter as well. Loki is a frost giant which odin morphed into an asguardian

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#146 Edited by Rajjar (1768 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebestofthebest said:

@rajjar: First, I never took those statements regarding Zeus's implied powers into account just like I never took the tectonic plate statements which was first confirmed in the tie ins, seriously.

'Kay.

Second, Odin is indeed featless.

When you discount all canon feats, then by default a character is featless. You are just no longer being objective about it, and it doesn't allow any debate from the get-go. Sure, I'm not objective either, but I prefer counting the scans posted on this page for the purpose of debating with them. It's not like they aren't canon or anything.

Third, there is no legitimate form of wank.

Legitimacy is no longer objective when it comes to LA battles. Not when people are quicker to say "DCEU Superman blitzes" and "Wonder Woman blitzes" than they are able to say "Wally speedsteals and IMPs." And it's not a standard in this thread either, so there isn't any available application of it anymore.

That spills over to wank. Wank also can be qualitatively measured, either from up, or down, and I chose up, because my scale was based on the presence of actual evidence, which for Odin there is some. Clark being city-level from that nuke is more legitimate wank than Clark being planetary from the MBs. Which is what I had to debate here. Which is the direct proof for how said legitimacy is a deader horse than Boxer from Animal Farm.

Independently, even if it was objective, legitimacy isn't a binary on any non-quantitative level.

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#147 Posted by Subline (7024 posts) - - Show Bio

No....

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#148 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (10547 posts) - - Show Bio