• 124 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
Avatar image for anthp2000
#101 Edited by ANTHP2000 (12074 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1:

Bobbi’s physically superior to May anyway

That's irrelevant in regards to skill, and that's how Bobbi faught Vin Tak, not through her strength.

Sinara’s not as good as a Centipede, and I’ve always argued for Bobbi being able to beat May (there’s other threads for that)

If you're suggesting that Sinara would lose to a Centipede, I strongly disagree. And May faught her under much more extreme circumstances.

Wether or not Bobbi can beat May is irrelevant, they're clearly close enough to go toe to toe for an extended period of time on equal footing. Each one's showings translate to the other just fine.

We don’t see him keeping up with Panther for more than a few seconds, beyond that is speculation as to how the fight went down

Yet we pretty much see them fighting far away from any distractions before T'Challa finally gets away. Using our headcanon to assume thigns like T'Challa being distracetd or someone getting in the fight is baseless.

Are you arguing that a Centipede soldier is better than Black Panther?

If that's what you got by my saying "they might not be so far below someone like Bucky", I don't know what to say.

Anyway, regarding stats, the Centipedes have better feats than the Super Soldiers, including Steve and Bucky. Skill is not on that level really, but we shouldn't just assume they're so far below them when they have only ever faught 1 battle against highily skilled fighters (May and Ward).

Heck if we're going further, May didn't even lose to Centipede there. She got up a few moments after she was dropped, and we know she usually turns the tides last minute in fights, so it's very possible that she could've kept fighting, and imo it's the most sensical explanation too.

After the bullet fired=bullet timing, no?

With powers. Sara didn't fight him with powers. Her showing against him is useless regarding speed.

Missing the point, if he didn’t fully transform then, then why would he when she kicked him?

I'm not missing the point, you're drawing away. Because he would think he can take May with his sphere before she kicked him. Why else would he afford getting hit again, by something clearly strong enough to hurt him?

Avatar image for kroczilla
#102 Posted by kroczilla (1243 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: multitonner feats for sif if you don't mind. Mirakuru users are also multitonners btw. Cyrus gold reduced a reinforced steel door to scrap papper. If you think that doesn't take multitonner strength then I don't know what to tell you.

Catching an arrow with full knowledge of the incoming attack and prep is a peak human feat.

catching an arrow fired from behind in a surprise attack without even so much as a turn around is a superhuman feat. heck merely perceiving the fired arrow is above peak human talk less of perfectly reading it's trajectory without even seeing it.

I think you are overselling the precog feat a bit. Even if may beat a "precog master", the thing is precog can only take you so far. If you aren't as skilled as your opponent knowing what they will do next is barely enough to get a win.

And while we are on the subject of speed, I would like to point out a feat from onyx who murdered a room full of people in seconds with blunt force trauma and so fast, it was like she never moved. She would be hardpressed to make high tier btw talk less of sara ' s lvl.

The USB feat is not as impressive as some of hawkeye's other feats not to mention only hawkeye was stated as pulling his punches. Didn't see your explanation for why winter soldier wrecks black widow twice yet somehow she's in black panther 'ss league.

Bruh, it's a bullet timing feat. Same as darhk btw whom sara defeated.

Avatar image for arcus1
#103 Posted by Arcus1 (25514 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000:

Of course Bobbi’s physicals played a role, how could they not help her? It takes physical ability to stagger a superhuman, not just skill

What’s Sinara done to show superiority to a Centipede soldier?

If the fight was as continuous as you say, then how’d they end up so far away?

You’re arguing that Hawkeye fought Panther evenly for as long as, if not longer than, May could fight a Centipede

And Absorbing Man apparently didn’t try to use his powers against May, unless you’re arguing May is faster than a bullet. In their fight in S3 he transformed in response to May hitting him from behind, so he’s capable of reacting to her through the same instinctive reactions that protected him from the bullet

Avatar image for angeljax
#104 Posted by AngelJax (5745 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:
@kroczilla said:

@anthp2000:

And she also scales from a bullet timer (e.g. vandal savage, damian darhk)

Technically, Sara never had a real fight with the present/future version of Savage, just his past self who was far less impressive. Ollie did fight that Savage though

But she did fight Darhk with his magic, and if you wanna say fighting Absorbing Man counts as fighting a bullet timer, then the same logic would have to apply to Darhk

No Caption Provided

Damien puts his hand up before the bullet was fired.

Avatar image for arcus1
#105 Posted by Arcus1 (25514 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax:

Yeah, but he has to actually focus on the bullet to stop it (he’s got other feats of stopping bullets too, iirc)

I think it’s about as relevant as what Anthp’s talking about with Absorbing Man (which isn’t all that relevant tbh, just brought it up as a counter)

Avatar image for anthp2000
#106 Posted by ANTHP2000 (12074 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:

@anthp2000:

Of course Bobbi’s physicals played a role, how could they not help her? It takes physical ability to stagger a superhuman, not just skill

What’s Sinara done to show superiority to a Centipede soldier?

If the fight was as continuous as you say, then how’d they end up so far away?

You’re arguing that Hawkeye fought Panther evenly for as long as, if not longer than, May could fight a Centipede

And Absorbing Man apparently didn’t try to use his powers against May, unless you’re arguing May is faster than a bullet. In their fight in S3 he transformed in response to May hitting him from behind, so he’s capable of reacting to her through the same instinctive reactions that protected him from the bullet

First of all, Bobbi's so physically inferior to someone like Vin Tak that it hardly plays a factor, second Bobbi's not so much physically superior to May either. And I get it that you agree that each one's feats translate to the other given how you ginored the point.

Not superiority in h2h, but I'm certain she'd drop more than a centipede with her orbs... And that's the conditions May faught her, with an injury that should have crippled her, let alone let her fight.

What? People move while fighting. Everyone else who has prolonged fights with peak humans has as well.

Not really. Like I said, May could've very easily kept fighting the Centipede hadn't he left immediately after flooring her. Because we've seen her getting out of similar situations, many times.

I am arguing that May can move faster than a bullet at times, which part did you miss about it? That's what fighters with bullet timing do in combat, it's not so amazing. And you also ignored the other explenation I gave you on her hitting him from behind - AM has always been absordbing everything that hit him offensively instinctively, with May's kick, he didn't have anything to absorb in conduct with the hit. Just like when Hunter shot him. He absorbed the rock he was holding, not the bullet - yet it was instinctive.

Avatar image for anthp2000
#107 Posted by ANTHP2000 (12074 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:

@angeljax:

Yeah, but he has to actually focus on the bullet to stop it (he’s got other feats of stopping bullets too, iirc)

I think it’s about as relevant as what Anthp’s talking about with Absorbing Man (which isn’t all that relevant tbh, just brought it up as a counter)

If you genuinely can't tell the difference, I still don't know what to say.

Avatar image for angeljax
#108 Edited by AngelJax (5745 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: Does he? For all we know his magic can have an AoE all the time, and we just can't see it. The other time was when Damien was amped IIRC. To where he didn't even have to gesture if he didn't want to.

I think he's overselling that a bit. Tagging a bullet timer (or a high-end aim dodger) doesn't make said fighter a bullet timer. Most of his other arguments are solid though.

Avatar image for arcus1
#109 Posted by Arcus1 (25514 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000:

A fully healthy May couldn’t physically match Ward as well as a tortured Bobbi did

Well with her orbs, yeah maybe. May’s better at dodging than a Centipede, sure

Apparently they were quite a distance away, why’d they move so far?

Do you have a gif of Absorbing Man’s bullet defense?

The alternate explanation (which I’d be more inclined to agree with) means May fighting Absorbing Man doesn’t make her faster than a bullet

Avatar image for arcus1
#110 Posted by Arcus1 (25514 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax: I mean it’s always been shown as tk over objects before

Avatar image for anthp2000
#111 Posted by ANTHP2000 (12074 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: @angeljax: If we're agreeing that fighting someone with certain reaction feats does not necessarily mean we can apply those feats on the other, I'm fine with agreeing to disagree on that.

Not saying May's necessarily a bullet timer, but if she can keep up with Absorbing Man this way, she's imo faster than someone like Sara. At least in regards to close quarters combat.

Avatar image for angeljax
#112 Posted by AngelJax (5745 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: I just don't think her showing against Creel alone is enough to put her definitively above Sara in combat speed, who has fought and beaten casual arrow timers on multiple occasions.

Avatar image for anthp2000
#113 Edited by ANTHP2000 (12074 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:

@anthp2000:

A fully healthy May couldn’t physically match Ward as well as a tortured Bobbi did

Well with her orbs, yeah maybe. May’s better at dodging than a Centipede, sure

Apparently they were quite a distance away, why’d they move so far?

Do you have a gif of Absorbing Man’s bullet defense?

The alternate explanation (which I’d be more inclined to agree with) means May fighting Absorbing Man doesn’t make her faster than a bullet

To be fair, Bobbi also caught him off guard and gained a monmentum by cornering him - Bobbi's not as much of a physical beast as Ward either. I agree that she's tougher than May, but not by such a huge margin.

Why'd Daredevil and Elektra switch rooms fighting?

Er, here's a video.

Avatar image for anthp2000
#114 Edited by ANTHP2000 (12074 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax said:

@anthp2000: I just don't think her showing against Creel alone is enough to put her definitively above Sara in combat speed, who has fought and beaten casual arrow timers on multiple occasions.

It's not really alone, it's just high end. For instance, Daisy reacted to an RPG (which is more than twice as fast as an arrow IIRC) and I think May blocking her hits like that has to do with a speed edge partially.

Like I said, how much faster she is is debatable - scaling from Arrow helps. But I think she is faster.

Avatar image for arcus1
#115 Posted by Arcus1 (25514 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000:

Except nothing indicates that AM tried and failed to absorb something to counter May. He’d already transformed, and there’s nothing to indicate she was somehow faster than his powers

I mean, to use some scaling for Sara, Steel’s a clear bullet timer (physically blocking bullets with his hands) yet Malcolm Merlyn was dodging his hits, and Sara’s beaten Malcolm (just as fast as him). Not gonna argue that Sara/Malcolm actually have Steel’s reflexes, but that’s at least as relevant as the Absorbing Man situation

Avatar image for anthp2000
#116 Posted by ANTHP2000 (12074 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:

@anthp2000:

Except nothing indicates that AM tried and failed to absorb something to counter May. He’d already transformed, and there’s nothing to indicate she was somehow faster than his powers

I mean, to use some scaling for Sara, Steel’s a clear bullet timer (physically blocking bullets with his hands) yet Malcolm Merlyn was dodging his hits, and Sara’s beaten Malcolm (just as fast as him). Not gonna argue that Sara/Malcolm actually have Steel’s reflexes, but that’s at least as relevant as the Absorbing Man situation

Except for the fact that his powers work instinctively, as you pointed out more than once.

That I can agree with, if Steel's actually a bullet timer.

Avatar image for arcus1
#117 Posted by Arcus1 (25514 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:

@anthp2000:

Except nothing indicates that AM tried and failed to absorb something to counter May. He’d already transformed, and there’s nothing to indicate she was somehow faster than his powers

I mean, to use some scaling for Sara, Steel’s a clear bullet timer (physically blocking bullets with his hands) yet Malcolm Merlyn was dodging his hits, and Sara’s beaten Malcolm (just as fast as him). Not gonna argue that Sara/Malcolm actually have Steel’s reflexes, but that’s at least as relevant as the Absorbing Man situation

Except for the fact that his powers work instinctively, as you pointed out more than once.

That I can agree with, if Steel's actually a bullet timer.

And there was nothing instinctive for him to react to when May kicked him

Loading Video...

He's got some other bullet deflecting scenes, but this is one of the clearest examples, he even catches a bullet in his teeth

Avatar image for anthp2000
#118 Edited by ANTHP2000 (12074 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1:

And there was nothing instinctive for him to react to when May kicked him

Except for May's kicks.

He's got some other bullet deflecting scenes, but this is one of the clearest examples, he even catches a bullet in his teeth

You can drop the others cause this is not cut clear at all. Can easily be atributed to high end aim blocking, as we've discussed many times before. This is the very problem with CW 'bullet timing' - it can easily not be bullet timing. Whenever someone in the MCU is that fast, they make sure we get it.

Look at the end of the day, Salvage has something close to bullet timing and I'm more than willing to accept that they're comparable, which I already have, but May has a slight speed edge on my book.

Avatar image for arcus1
#119 Posted by Arcus1 (25514 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1:

And there was nothing instinctive for him to react to when May kicked him

Except for May's kicks.

He's got some other bullet deflecting scenes, but this is one of the clearest examples, he even catches a bullet in his teeth

You can drop the others cause this is not cut clear at all. Can easily be atributed to high end aim blocking, as we've discussed many times before. This is the very problem with CW 'bullet timing' - it can easily not be bullet timing. Whenever someone in the MCU is that fast, they make sure we get it.

Look at the end of the day, Salvage has something close to bullet timing and I'm more than willing to accept that they're comparable, which I already have, but May has a slight speed edge on my book.

You think Steel catching a bullet in his teeth isn't bullet timing? Come on dude, you wouldn't argue that Black Panther's bullet timing in the prelude comic is just high end aim blocking

Avatar image for anthp2000
#120 Posted by ANTHP2000 (12074 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:
@anthp2000 said:

@arcus1:

And there was nothing instinctive for him to react to when May kicked him

Except for May's kicks.

He's got some other bullet deflecting scenes, but this is one of the clearest examples, he even catches a bullet in his teeth

You can drop the others cause this is not cut clear at all. Can easily be atributed to high end aim blocking, as we've discussed many times before. This is the very problem with CW 'bullet timing' - it can easily not be bullet timing. Whenever someone in the MCU is that fast, they make sure we get it.

Look at the end of the day, Salvage has something close to bullet timing and I'm more than willing to accept that they're comparable, which I already have, but May has a slight speed edge on my book.

You think Steel catching a bullet in his teeth isn't bullet timing? Come on dude, you wouldn't argue that Black Panther's bullet timing in the prelude comic is just high end aim blocking

Of course it could be high end aim blocking.

You know we have discussed this before and we know for a fact T'Challa moved and sliced down the bullet after it was fired because we see him standing motionless on the first panel, after the shot's been made, and on the second one he does it - that's how comics separate bullet timing from aim blocking.

Again, bottom line, they're comparable.

Avatar image for arcus1
#121 Posted by Arcus1 (25514 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:
@anthp2000 said:

@arcus1:

And there was nothing instinctive for him to react to when May kicked him

Except for May's kicks.

He's got some other bullet deflecting scenes, but this is one of the clearest examples, he even catches a bullet in his teeth

You can drop the others cause this is not cut clear at all. Can easily be atributed to high end aim blocking, as we've discussed many times before. This is the very problem with CW 'bullet timing' - it can easily not be bullet timing. Whenever someone in the MCU is that fast, they make sure we get it.

Look at the end of the day, Salvage has something close to bullet timing and I'm more than willing to accept that they're comparable, which I already have, but May has a slight speed edge on my book.

You think Steel catching a bullet in his teeth isn't bullet timing? Come on dude, you wouldn't argue that Black Panther's bullet timing in the prelude comic is just high end aim blocking

Of course it could be high end aim blocking.

You know we have discussed this before and we know for a fact T'Challa moved and sliced down the bullet after it was fired because we see him standing motionless on the first panel, after the shot's been made, and on the second one he does it - that's how comics separate bullet timing from aim blocking.

Again, bottom line, they're comparable.

How is reacting in time to stop a bullet in flight by biting down on it just aim blocking? He had to move after the bullet was fired to actually catch it, there's no other way to catch a bullet...that's physically required....

Bullet gets fired, when it's close enough, he brings his teeth together to catch it...how else could it happen? I'm genuinely confused

Avatar image for anthp2000
#122 Posted by ANTHP2000 (12074 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:
@anthp2000 said:
@arcus1 said:
@anthp2000 said:

@arcus1:

And there was nothing instinctive for him to react to when May kicked him

Except for May's kicks.

He's got some other bullet deflecting scenes, but this is one of the clearest examples, he even catches a bullet in his teeth

You can drop the others cause this is not cut clear at all. Can easily be atributed to high end aim blocking, as we've discussed many times before. This is the very problem with CW 'bullet timing' - it can easily not be bullet timing. Whenever someone in the MCU is that fast, they make sure we get it.

Look at the end of the day, Salvage has something close to bullet timing and I'm more than willing to accept that they're comparable, which I already have, but May has a slight speed edge on my book.

You think Steel catching a bullet in his teeth isn't bullet timing? Come on dude, you wouldn't argue that Black Panther's bullet timing in the prelude comic is just high end aim blocking

Of course it could be high end aim blocking.

You know we have discussed this before and we know for a fact T'Challa moved and sliced down the bullet after it was fired because we see him standing motionless on the first panel, after the shot's been made, and on the second one he does it - that's how comics separate bullet timing from aim blocking.

Again, bottom line, they're comparable.

How is reacting in time to stop a bullet in flight by biting down on it just aim blocking? He had to move after the bullet was fired to actually catch it, there's no other way to catch a bullet...that's physically required....

Bullet gets fired, when it's close enough, he brings his teeth together to catch it...how else could it happen? I'm genuinely confused

Didn't really think of it like that. That is fair enough then.

You know, it wouldn't take 3 pages of arguments if you had just said this at the beginning smh...

Avatar image for arcus1
#123 Posted by Arcus1 (25514 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: I mean, I still don't think May kicking Absorbing Man is her outreacting a bullet timer...

I did bring up Steel in my CaV, but yeah I could've remembered it sooner, oh well

Avatar image for anthp2000
#124 Posted by ANTHP2000 (12074 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: Subjective enough I guess, I'm fine with agreeing they're on the same level.

Actually, this is the one and only time I've seen cut clear bullet timing in Arrow. Tbh, you really are HoF material the least lmao.

Avatar image for dovydas
#125 Edited by Dovydas (30 posts) - - Show Bio

May's showings against Ward/Bobbi/Scarlotti show that she's skilled enough to challenge Sara purely on skill, but her fights against the Primitives, Eva, and Sinara show she's capable of beating physically superior opponents.