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#1 Posted by mexcomics2078 (2174 posts) - - Show Bio

H2H

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#2 Posted by mrmonster (14142 posts) - - Show Bio

Fisk

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#3 Edited by OriginalCaptain (4836 posts) - - Show Bio

Fisk in a tough fight. Pilgrim fights dirty and his durabilty & pain tolerance would allow him to win some rounds. He is just like Frank.

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#4 Posted by Supermanthor (13367 posts) - - Show Bio
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#5 Posted by Floopay (11040 posts) - - Show Bio

John Pilgrim. He was basically Frank's equal. While Fisk had the upper hand on Frank in their brief encounter, Frank had also taken quite a beating immediately prior. John was almost a perfect match for Frank in combat, and both were equally messed up.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#6 Posted by KingCrimson (5069 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Frank wasn’t exactly utilising his skill to the max in that fight. If they were both in perfect condition, Frank would destroy him.

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#7 Posted by ANTHP2000 (24789 posts) - - Show Bio

People should stop using Fisk and Frank's "fight" to try and say Fisk is better. Frank was half dead and chained down and he still landed more hits that dealt more damage before Fisk fully abused the restraints to knock him down.

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#8 Posted by Floopay (11040 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: Frank wasn’t exactly utilising his skill to the max in that fight. If they were both in perfect condition, Frank would destroy him.

That's pretty much exactly what I was saying...

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#9 Edited by OriginalCaptain (4836 posts) - - Show Bio
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#10 Posted by Amendment50 (15111 posts) - - Show Bio

Pilgrim is tough but not Fisk tough.

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#11 Posted by Floopay (11040 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay: @kingcrimson:

Pilgrim was in a worse condition and they were still almost evenly matched.

I don't know if worse condition is necessarily true. Even Rock Salt and rubber bullets can do some pretty extensive physical damage, especially at close range. Plus the beatings and lacerations he took. I'm not saying Frank had it worse; but he took a lot of blunt force injuries. So while he may not have been as damaged on the outside; he was physically in pieces on the inside. And this was stated a few times by the people around him after he went to the hospital iirc.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#12 Edited by OriginalCaptain (4836 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay:

Yea true, but he was in a hospital in which he at least got some professional help and rest. Pilgrim had none of that. He was suffering from so many injuries at this point... he got stabbed, shot and beaten up and never had professional help or any rest to recover from his wounds. Like I don’t even know how is leg was still functional. He got shot by Amy with a shotgun ... he pulled out the slugs by himself and kept fighting.

Amy even told John that it’s suicide to fight frank in his current condition at that time.

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#13 Posted by Floopay (11040 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay:

Yea true, but he was in a hospital in which he at least got some professional help and rest. Pilgrim had none of that. He was suffering from so many injuries at this point... he got stabbed, shot and beaten up and never had professional help or any rest to recover from his wounds. Like I don’t even know how is leg was still functional. He got shot by Amy with a shotgun ... he pulled out the slugs by himself and kept fighting.

Amy even told John that it’s suicide to fight frank in his current condition at that time.

It was birdshot from the looks of it, and it looked like soft tissue damage.

Frank may have gotten professional help; but he was also in a car accident immediately afterwards (granted, Pilgrim got shot in the same encounter). Again, I'm just saying neither was that much worse than the other. Even with professional help; broken and fractured bones aren't gonna be much better on 24 hour rest.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

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#14 Posted by CelestialKnight (1436 posts) - - Show Bio

Fisk

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#15 Posted by MAZAHS117 (12027 posts) - - Show Bio

Fisk ragdolls

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#16 Edited by OriginalCaptain (4836 posts) - - Show Bio

@floopay said:
@originalcaptain said:

@floopay:

Yea true, but he was in a hospital in which he at least got some professional help and rest. Pilgrim had none of that. He was suffering from so many injuries at this point... he got stabbed, shot and beaten up and never had professional help or any rest to recover from his wounds. Like I don’t even know how is leg was still functional. He got shot by Amy with a shotgun ... he pulled out the slugs by himself and kept fighting.

Amy even told John that it’s suicide to fight frank in his current condition at that time.

It was birdshot from the looks of it, and it looked like soft tissue damage.

Frank may have gotten professional help; but he was also in a car accident immediately afterwards (granted, Pilgrim got shot in the same encounter). Again, I'm just saying neither was that much worse than the other. Even with professional help; broken and fractured bones aren't gonna be much better on 24 hour rest.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

A birdshot is still lethal. It might take minutes or hours before the victim succumbs to their wounds, but it can be lethal nonetheless.

May hit him in the leg from point blank range. His whole leg was fucked up. On top of that he got sliced through the stomach and got his face smashed in by multiple men with brass knuckles in the restaurant. The Car accident is not comparable IMO.

Frank wasn't at his best, but Pilgrim was in a miserable condition.

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#17 Posted by diydeath (2372 posts) - - Show Bio

Pilgrim wins 6/10

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#18 Posted by lubub55 (12832 posts) - - Show Bio

Not fair.

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#19 Posted by pastepotpete1 (3308 posts) - - Show Bio

piligrim would win

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#20 Posted by juiceboks (24634 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't recall any striking or durability feats John displayed that would allow him to last more than a couple minutes against Fisk.

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#21 Edited by pastepotpete1 (3308 posts) - - Show Bio

@juiceboks: I dont like to berate you bc you are one of the few nice mods but just so you know John ^ did not have the brass knucles to start with ^okay, can you prove to me that mcu mr fisk can beat more than 6 or 7 guys with weapons !? all at one time ?just bc you went the distance with DD or beat a worn-out , bleeding Dare devil .. I mean like for example the guy who makes Dare devils suits and weapons the autistic -guy who has a female police officer as a girl friend .. he was able to go the distance with dare devil twice ! does that make him a professional killer or prof fighter ? .. I mean I have been in a street fight once and yeah beating someone bigger than me is not really hard , you just need good -conditioning but beating more than one guys at a time who weigh more , beating three guys at one time with weapons is just almost impossible unless they are fighting you fair ( by attacking one at a time with no weapons ) .. and don't forget John is kind old , I mean look at him ! the bar -guy even said " saw a ghost" also, John did not use brass knuckles to win at the beginning , he got them from the last guy who attacked ( the Italian fancy suit mafia guy) I honestly think piligrim was taking it easy on the punisher bc like he said" he did nothing bad to me" and piligrim yeah his younger -self would've destroyed punisher in H2H but seriously mr fisk is good at manipulating people with his money and power but he still has no feats even after three seasons

kingpin just has size ,that is about it .. maybe in season 4 we can see mr fisk fight more than one guy at a time .. I mean dex beat a healthy dare devil twice and some people on the vine think 5'6 150 lb Nobu can beat 6'2 230 lb dex.. its all a matter of perception! weight and size

wait a freaking minute . holy crap .. the guy playing John Piligrim is not Sean Penn ?wow lol freaking dopplageaner

@anthp3000 ???? ?? I don't understand.. I could literally chew up four plastic straws watching agents of shield out of boredom .. the Arrow is okay well its good show but kind of just not practical - i mean arrows vs people with tommy guns .. and the last episode was hilarious with rene saying to a girl who shoots arrows "you could've killed that guy when he shoots bullets at people "… no matter how great a bow man you are a amateur can beat you with a gun .. you didn't like Netflix MCU shows ? I am marvel fan and I absolutely love gotham

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#22 Posted by Subline (6118 posts) - - Show Bio

Wilson Fisk / The Kingpin.

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#23 Posted by jayc1324 (26418 posts) - - Show Bio

It can go either way. I would go with Pilgrim for a majority due to his pain tolerance, which is damn near on par with Punisher's. It would be a brutal fight but Pilgrim would take it

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#24 Posted by Amcu (15810 posts) - - Show Bio

Fisk.

Pilgrim's only advantage is his pain tolerance. If he had a knife than maybe that would be enough to give him a chance but in this situation he's not winning. Fisk is massively superior physically and a tank himself.

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#25 Posted by buildhare (8562 posts) - - Show Bio

Goes about the same as Dex v Fisk.

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#26 Posted by ANTHP2000 (24789 posts) - - Show Bio

People are still using out of context fights for Fisk.

Anyway, they are both horrible in combat, so the winner is no one.

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#27 Edited by juiceboks (24634 posts) - - Show Bio

@pastepotpete1:

can you prove to me that mcu mr fisk can beat more than 6 or 7 guys with weapons !? all at one time

I'm not seeing what's so impressive about beating 5 guys (3 of them with weapons) and coming out in the condition John did. Black suit Matt beat twice as many thugs armed with more lethal weapons and while starting the encounter in a worse condition and still came out better in the end.

just bc you went the distance with DD or beat a worn-out , bleeding Dare devil .. I mean like for example he guy DD's suits and weapons the autistic -guy who has a female police officer as a girl friend .. he was able to go the distance with dare devil twice

S1 Matt consistently performed better against groups of enemies multiple times with handicaps John didn't have, and yet despite his armored suit and blunt weapons was still on the losing end of their S1 fight at some points. Fast forward to S3 and we see Bullseye in that same armor get his spine shattered after Kingpin tackled him into a brick wall.

Is there a reason why John would fair better in this scenario?

does that make him a professional killer or prof fighter

Poindexter is an Army veteran and a member of the FBI who was renowned enough to send on a one mission to retrieve possibly the most wanted man in the U.S from a squad of armed terrorists. He is a professional killer in every sense of the word.

I mean I have been in a street fight once and yeah beating someone bigger than me is not really hard

Irrelevant. Fisk clearly isn't just some big dude.

you just need good -conditioning but beating more than one guys at a time who weigh more , beating three guys at one time with weapons is just almost impossible unless they are fighting you fair

Maybe in real life, but in the MCU where unenhanced people can fight after dozens of clean blows to their heads this becomes less and less true. Let's not pretend like John was untouched in that fight, quite the opposite. Him beating those 5 guys is more a testament to his tenacity rather than h2h skill, tenacity that won't help tank repeated blows like this..

kingpin just has size ,that is about it

He has size, strength and durability to noticeable degree. He's shown the capacity to tag someone significantly faster, more skilled and agile than John which is more than what Pilgrim can say for himself. I'm struggling to see what exactly John is bringing to this fight that Fisk would have trouble with.

maybe in season 4 we can see mr fisk fight more than one guy at a time

Why are you so sure he can't? Fisk has shown an almost inhuman degree of strength and durability even relative to people who have demonstrated physical stats well above MCU fodder. There's no reason why he wouldn't be able to oneshot any regular person if he really wanted to, and given his durability feats he's certainly not going to be reeling from any blows.

I mean dex beat a healthy dare devil twice and some people on the vine think 5'6 150 lb Nobu can beat 6'2 230 lb dex

Because Nobu has h2h skill Dex doesn't despite his size advantage which you are clearly exaggerating with those inaccurate measurements.

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#28 Posted by Supermanthor (13367 posts) - - Show Bio

Fisk

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#29 Posted by ANTHP2000 (24789 posts) - - Show Bio
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#30 Posted by Subline (6118 posts) - - Show Bio

Just finished Punisher Season 2. Fisk takes this comfortably, his physicals are just way better and John's skill is nothing special.

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#31 Posted by DanielDaRipper (5180 posts) - - Show Bio

Fisk.