Mcu Iw Thor and Mcu Captain Marvel vs Dceu Superman and Dceu Wonder Woman

@supermanforever: cp has not shown any combat speed that is lightspeed. Not even remotely close. He combat speed was consistently supersonic at best.

Funny, since "Cap Marvel", Supes fans are considerably scholarized, and some of them can even tell travel speed from combat speed - which wasn't the case before. They're getting subtle.

It's no use; Superman's combat speed is still quite relatively mundane.

Supermans combat speed far exceedes everyone here. If his combat speed is mundane, then everyone everyone else must move like a snail.

It's the very same kind of speed as Carol's.

@nucleon: Combat speed isn't travel speed.

Yeah, they both get the Steppenwolf treatment until they dead, which won't take long.

@bayman007: I wrote: Superman's speed is the very same kind of speed as Carol's.

@nucleon: I saw what you wrote. And Supermans Combat Speed far exceedes that of everyone here.

Just to be clear, i'm not talking about travel speed.

@ipvman: Wow - Supes actually dodged a blow - and in slomo, nothing less. Now someone tie me up before I mess the place with exitement.

Street levelers dodges blows all of the time, dude. If they had it filmed it in slomo, then they become "bullet timers". Yeah.

@bayman007: Yes - you are. I suspect you still can't tell the two of them apart.

@nucleon: Slow mo? Haha you're right. SW appeared to be moving in slow mo.. because Superman combat speed means he can't keep up.

@nucleon: Let me know when Captain Fodder and Slowdinson have any reaction feats. Then you might finally start making sense. Until then you'll continue to live in a dreamworld where Black Widow is faster than Superman according to your horribly twisted logic.

@nucleon: Well you are wrong as usual.

Superman has actual combat speed feats that put him well above the rest here. This has been proven many many times when he uses in battle.

With travel speed it would be a race.

@ipvman: Thor's got plenty of reaction feats - what are you talking about? Have you seen some of the movies he appeared in? Reaction speed isn't combat speed.

And the Black Widow can likely at least equal Superman in the number of actions she executes in any given time in a fight, yes. But admitedly she's good. Just look at the gifs you posted; Supes' sole act of "superspeed" is when he dodged SW - even characters in old cowboy movies can do that, except they're not filmed in slomo. His other attacks on SW happen at lower than normal speed for the genre.

In BvS, Batman's fight in the warehouse demonstrate more combat speed than Superman ever shown. =)

@nucleon:

Thor's got plenty of reaction feats - what are you talking about? Have you seen some of the movies he appeared in? Reaction speed isn't combat speed.

Thor's got reaction feats of grunting and screaming in pain when he gets constantly tagged. Other than that he doesn't have much in the way of anything impressive in combat.

And the Black Widow can likely at least equal Superman in the number of actions she executes in any given time in a fight, yes. But admitedly she's good. Just look at the gifs you posted; Supes' sole act of "superspeed is when he dodged SW - even characters in old cowboy movies can do that, except they're not filmed in slomo. His other attacks on SW happen at lower than normal speed for the genre.

In BvS, Batman's fight in the warehouse demonstrate more combat speed than Superman ever shown. =)

Lmao. Dance clown, dance.

@bayman007: Superman has actual combat speed feats that put him well above the rest here. This has been proven many many times when he uses in battle.

When? And please don't bring up vs the Flash, because if it's a proof of anything, it's a proof that Superman can't keep up with a de-stabilized, backward-running, non-combattant speedster.

@ipvman: Thor's got reaction feats of grunting and screaming in pain when he gets constantly tagged. Other than that he doesn't have much in the way of anything impressive in combat.

@nucleon: Then you miss understand what is happening in that fight sequence. Because both Superman and the Flash are showcasing combat speed, whilst 3 Justice league members are statues. You may prefer Batmans and Black Widows fighting styles, but they do not have these type of Combat Speed feats.

Superman faught Kryptonians in his first film, and danced around Steppenwolf his third. He is a speedster unlike Thor.

@bayman007: Then you miss understand what is happening in that fight sequence. Because both Superman and the Flash are showcasing combat speed, whilst 3 Justice league members are statues.

First - how fast can the Flash go when de-stabilized and running backwards?

Second - Supes threw like three punches. It ain't exctly a flurry.

Third - all of them missed. That's the point; Supes failed to fight even at those low speedster speeds.

You may prefer Batmans and Black Widows fighting styles, but the do not have these type of Combat Speed feats.

Superman faught Kryptonians in his first film, and danced around Steppenwolf his third.

Styles are irrelevant: The Black Widow, or even Batman executes more (successful) moves in the same amount of time. That's it. As for Kryptonians, it's like saying Thor is fast enough to fight other Asgardians. Of course he is - he is an Asgardian himself.

He is a speedster unlike Thor.

Thor danced around the Hulk two times, and in each of these times not only did he dodged the Hulk, but also gave a hit of his own - and in slomo, no less. Even you can't miss it. Thor also easily deflected Chitauri blasts. His mere hammer throw equals all that your headcannon Supes can do, probably better.

Superman is no speedster. Wake up.

@nucleon: Do tell me about those amazing Thor reaction feats Mr. Nucleon.

@ipvman: Do tell me about those amazing Thor reaction feats Mr. Nucleon.

Because obviously, you can't see them by yourself, or read them just a couple of posts above yours.

Nucleon, if you actually applied that intelligent brain of yours to this instead of twisting and turning we would get some where.

First - how fast can the Flash go when de-stabilized and running backwards? - This has nothing to do with my point, but to answer his combat speed was a bit faster than Clarks at the time - which enabled him to evade being hit.

Second - Supes threw like three punches. It ain't exactly a flurry. - I've never even mentioned the word flurry, regardless if you have acknowledged that 3 punches where thrown at Barry, whilst the three other league members were statues - then you acknowledge that Clark has superior combat speed to them.

They are frozen, and clark has swung 3 times, without them even seeing it. (I haven't counted these punches after what you said, im going by YOUR statement)

Third - all of them missed. That's the point; Supes failed to fight even at those low speedster speeds. - Flash operated at high speeds, he had faster combat speed at that point. Supermans combat speed, although not as good as Barrys, was still way way faster than the rest of the leagues. And even more so than Thors.

Superman is a speedster, doesn't matter how many times you say otherwise. I'm here for as long as it takes man

@nucleon: Oh you mean those street level reaction feats Cap and Bucky have replicated? I didn't notice those. Must not be very relevant cause he still doesn't have any feats to successfully react to Superman or Wonder Woman...

@ipvman: You just have no idea what you are talking about. Reaction speed isn't combat speed.

@nucleon:

Reaction speed isn't combat speed.

@ipvman: No, it isn't: Combat speed is a matter of muscles, reaction speed (or reflexes) is a matter of nerves. No need for super-powers to have good reflexes; Good reflexes are the staple of about every hero ever pictured on-screen, whereas mooks generally don't have them.

Did someone ever told you how ridiculous you sound?

@bayman007: captain marvel caught and tossed a triple& quadruple digit Mach missile before the other missiles of similar speed could catch up, that craps on anything combat speed wise from both DCEU and MCU herald bricks, and she can just choose to bull rush at FTL speeds

@nucleon:

Did someone ever told you how ridiculous you sound?

@ipvman: Ha ha ha you're already spent up. Not the deep ressources kind or person, are you?

@jaakor: Proof? Also, i'm talking about combat speed in battle. Not catching a rocket, like say the hulk catching an ejector seat.

Another question, do you think Danvers could replicate that scene Superman vs Flash in JL, where everyone else is frozen?

Thor or Carol can solo wonder woman are people weakness.

@bayman007: Another question, do you think Danvers could replicate that scene Superman vs Flash in JL, where everyone else is frozen?

You mean replicate Superman's failure to tag the Flash? Everybody can miss the Flash, except maybe Quicksilver.

@nucleon: So Black Widow could replicate that scene against the flash, leaving Aquaman, Diana and Victor frozen?

Well, no, of course she couldn't - the Black Widow doesn't have any travel super speed. I'm pretty sure she can, however, shake her arms at least three times the time it takes for these bodies to continue being projected then fall.

Lemme be honest here: Yes, what Superman did vs the Flash can indeed be considered "combat speed", but it ain't an impressive nor a successful attempt, which leads me to believe it was way over Supe's speed level, because he ain't no speedster. Evey character can have these, it even happened to Iron Man when he analysed Cap's combat style at the end of "Civil War". Like I've wrote, Batman does multitasks in the warehouse fight, too.

@nucleon: Again not travel speed, you admited yourself that Clark threw 3 punches whilst they were all frozen. They didnt see him do that. Combat Speed dear fellow

@bayman007: It's realtively easy to wildly shake your arms in the air a few time in a split second. It would have more mattered if Supes connected. IMO, the Flash appeared to him as a blur, even at the limited speed he had at the time, hence Supes' apparent clumsiness.

@nucleon: You're basically saying "Superman, learn MMA like Batman".

This still doesnt change the fact he is a speedster, who has superior combat speed to BW and Thor (probably combined)

Yes, martial arts are among the means that makes you have more combat speed.

But mainly it is bona fide speedsters domain. Guys and gals like Superman and Cap Marvel, they have the same speed as Iron Man do, probably on a higher level, but neither here have consistent combat speed: Wonder Woman's does have it (sometimes), and it's a kind of speed so different that she wasn't even considered in Supes vs Superman speed pissings contest.

@nucleon: Iron man doesn't have the combat speed to keep up with Superman or the Flash. Both of these, are in a different league speed wise.

If Batman had replaced Superman in that scene against the Flash, he would be a statue to. Doesn't matter how skillful he is, or what style he uses.

@bayman007: Iron man doesn't have the combat speed to keep up with Superman or the Flash. Both of these, are in a different league speed wise.

The Flash is, as he visibly proved against Superman.

If Batman had replaced Superman in that scene against the Flash, he would be a statue to. Doesn't matter how skillful he is, or what style he uses.

All of the Superman/Flash sequence was, in fact, a race of some kind, a running fight (hence on the line between combat and travel speeds). So no, Batman having no travel powers like flight or enhanced running, he couldn't. However, if he had like a jetpack, then yeah, he would have had a likewise performence, meaning a few clumsy swings. It isn't so un-imagineable.

CM is a weak link here.

@nucleon: I should make myself clear. Reaction speed in fiction can be defined as a single movement in a defined timeframe, which a character has been shown capable of. A series of movements in similar timeframes makes this combat speed. This is what combat speed looks like.

So we know Wonder Woman has combat speed equivalent to a machine gun.

So there's your combat speed right there. Superman can blitz someone with reactions capable of deflecting lightning and heat vision and massively better combat speed feats than CM or Thor. WW carries a sword capable of splitting Captain Fodder and Slowdinson in two, and Superman has punches capable of breaking them in two. So what we have here is another situation where the DCEU characters blitz the MCU characters and basically fodderize them with their superior combat speed and attacks.

And you're being blatantly contradictory saying Flash is a speedster and Superman isn't. By evidence Superman is as fast as the Flash.

So your argument is null and void. Good day.

@bayman007: proof of what?the feat calc or?. As for the combat feat, that comes from throwing the missile away after stopping it before the other missiles could catch up.

As for your last question, yes,she could easily, making a statue for a brief period put of bullet timers is easily at her level, however MCU doesn't like choreography with stuffs like that, so you probably won't see something like that on screen

@nucleon: What you are saying is false though, because Superman launched Diana and Aquaman in the air and whilst they were Frozen, jumped and landed to engage the Flash and threw 3 punches (you say) whilst the others were still Frozen.

We have esablished this, which you have already admitted. Clark is a speedster, with superior combat speed to the others here, sorry dude.

Also, your idea that Batman with a jet pack would have the same combat speed as Clark, is hilarious. Victor had rockets to propel him and got stopped in his tracks like an ironman statue. Travel Speed is not Combat Speed.. both of which Superman has in abundance.

Team 1 mega stomp Thor can solo they both lightning are magic it will kill superman.

@jaakor: Yes, i would like to see proof of that feat? As far as your description goes, it doesn't seem the same as combat speed when compared to Supermans.

The MCU has already killed off one Speedster, one whos other stats are no where near Clarks. Are you suggesting Danvers wouldn't be a statue to Quicksilver in A2? Again i'm seeking proof via feats.

@ipvman: I should make myself clear. Reaction speed in fiction can be defined as a single movement in a defined timeframe, which a character has been shown capable of. A series of movements in similar timeframes makes this combat speed. This is what combat speed looks like.

So far we agree.

So we know Wonder Woman has combat speed equivalent to a machine gun.

No, we don't know that; WW went at just the right speed, the one she needed. If she went faster she could have missed those bullets. Unless there's a failure, we can't use that to measure her combat speed's relative efficiency. Another thing: Machine guns, furthermore those of WWI, have a slower fire rate and bullet velocity.

So there's your combat speed right there.

Nah, it isn't: It's travel speed/straightline speed/a movement power. At most there's a nice display of operational speed too.

Superman can blitz someone with reactions capable of deflecting lightning and heat vision and massively better combat speed feats than CM or Thor.

Thor's thrown hammer is just as fast as a bullrushing Superman, and likely has more damage capabilities. Thor also deflects Chitauri blasts, casually.

WW carries a sword capable of splitting Captain Fodder and Slowdinson in two,

That is if they don't have a durability comparable to Steppenwolf, who no sold the sword. The problem here is that you consider WW's sword attack as some kind of one-shot, end-of-any-fight attacks whereas I consider it as a simple cutting attack not unlike no-name Asgardians can deliver. So, sure, she can cut Thor and cover him with scars, but not enough to slow him down.

and Superman has punches capable of breaking them in two. So what we have here is another situation where the DCEU characters blitz the MCU characters and basically fodderize them with their superior combat speed and attacks.

I don't know, dude; The Hulk's got better striking feats than Supes and he administered quite a beatdown on Thor in the Arena fight at some point. Thor's a hell of a tanker. IMO MCU characters, because they have advanced weapons, strike harder than their DC counterparts.

And you're being blatantly contradictory saying Flash is a speedster and Superman isn't. By evidence Superman is as fast as the Flash.

Yeah, well that's travel speed, again.

Bump

@nucleon:

So far we agree.

No, we don't know that; WW went at just the right speed, the one she needed. If she went faster she could have missed those bullets. Unless there's a failure, we can't use that to measure her combat speed's relative efficiency. Another thing: Machine guns, furthermore those of WWI, have a slower fire rate and bullet velocity.

Uh yeah, we do. We see it. She's moving her arms as fast as a machine gun fires while moving. It's pretty straight forward. It was a Heckler and Koch which I can assure is a modern weapon.

Nah, it isn't: It's travel speed/straightline speed/a movement power. At most there's a nice display of operational speed too.

It's speed he uses in combat. Ie, combat speed.

Thor's thrown hammer is just as fast as a bullrushing Superman, and likely has more damage capabilities. Thor also deflects Chitauri blasts, casually.

What?

That's honestly pretty laughably slow. Superman is going to be looking at him in even slower motion because he's faster than QS.

That is if they don't have a durability comparable to Steppenwolf, who no sold the sword. The problem here is that you consider WW's sword attack as some kind of one-shot, end-of-any-fight attacks whereas I consider it as a simple cutting attack not unlike no-name Asgardians can deliver. So, sure, she can cut Thor and cover him with scars, but not enough to slow him down.

He didn't no sell it. She cut through his armor and she never got a clean shot on him anyways. It will cut Thor's head clean off, or arm. Carol's too.

I don't know, dude; The Hulk's got better striking feats than Supes and he administered quite a beatdown on Thor in the Arena fight at some point. Thor's a hell of a tanker. IMO MCU characters, because they have advanced weapons, strike harder than their DC counterparts.

Superman has pretty casually got better striking feats than Hulk.

The leviathan couldn't take down a parking garage and the Kryptonian ship was slicing through buildings like butter. That's without mentioning the world engine while weakened, Nam-Ek punch and punching Doomsday miles in space while weakened, or consistently creating shockwaves with strikes unlike Hulk. He has a lot better striking feats than anyone in the MCU.

Yeah, well that's travel speed, again.

Uh, no, it's not.

You're just being blatantly delusional trying to deny it. Flash is desperately trying to not get one shotted, tripping and stumbling over himself. And even then he couldn't get away as Superman flexed and knocked him over. So he did catch and tag him in the end, you're patently false.

@ipvman: It's speed he uses in combat. Ie, combat speed.

Travel speed can be used in combat, like in a bullrush.

That's honestly pretty laughably slow. Superman is going to be looking at him in even slower motion because he's faster than QS.

The Quicksilver bit is faster than the Flash's, which, even when de-stabilized and running backwards, was able to evade Superman. Thor's enhanced speed is making the Quicksilver bit look slower because he's still moving at an appreciable rate, but notice how repulsor-flying Iron Man is immobile.

The leviathan couldn't take down a parking garage

What? Clearly the Leviathans were "swimming" thru buildings like if they weren't there. And buddy, buildings are made to support tremendous vertical weight. You'd be surprised at how much they can "lift". Lastly, the Leviathan wasn't resting on a single building, but a couple.

and the Kryptonian ship was slicing through buildings like butter. That's without mentioning the world engine while weakened, Nam-Ek punch

The "Nam-ek punch" was simply the effect of gravity. Had both been on the ground, Supes would have knocked him like 30'. And anyway, how heavy was Nam-Ek? A few thousand tons?

and punching Doomsday miles in space while weakened,

Once you gave something in space a little push, it goes on forever. I'm debatting with kids, for Kryst's sake!

or consistently creating shockwaves with strikes unlike Hulk. He has a lot better striking feats than anyone in the MCU.

Punch velocity doesn't mean much on such tough targets; Supes and the Kryptonians went at it for hours and nobody was ever bruised, then Supes got KOed by a train. When all's said and done, a well-winded haymaker ia still the biggest punch these guys can produce.

Uh, no, it's not.

Yes it is. Well, not the one you placed in your last post, but in the one it first appeared in was the Flash and Superman racing - you can't get much more "travel speed" than that.

As for the gif to which you now linked your comment, it was pretty much a straight line. Furthermore, the fight was a moving one, which implicitely tells us it's travel speed. Like I've wrote, Batman could match Supes' "performence" if he had a jetpack. Supes essentially bullrushed the Flash (with no success).

Here's a trick; If it implies a movement power, like flight or enhanced running, then it's travel speed.

You're just being blatantly delusional trying to deny it. Flash is desperately trying to not get one shotted, tripping and stumbling over himself. And even then he couldn't get away as Superman flexed and knocked him over. So he did catch and tag him in the end, you're patently false.

Nah, Supes did nothing but stay there, The Flash basically pushed himself out of the fight. Ha ha ha.