MCU Iron Man & Rescue vs. DCEU Shazam & Dr. Sivana

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fatalsniper728

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Poll MCU Iron Man & Rescue vs. DCEU Shazam & Dr. Sivana (45 votes)

Tony & Pepper 58%
Billy & Sivana 42%
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VS.

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  • Tony has his suit from Infinity War.
  • No prep.
  • Teams start 500 feet apart.
  • Who wins?
 • 
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fatalsniper728

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StealthCobra117

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#2  Edited By StealthCobra117

Tony & Pepper should win.

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KryptonianKing88

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Does DCEU get deleted scene feat?

If Yes? Stalemate or Shazam wins after spending days breaking apart the suit

If No? Iron Man solostomps

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deltahuman

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"Weapons of man draw no blood from our kind" statement was mostly figurative but I don't think Stark's bullets or bombs will hurt Shazam or Sivana.

Repulsor unibeam etc might hurt them but Shazam and Sivana are extremely fast. They reached above clouds, that is Stratosphere level in seconds, putting their speed at hypersonic levels. Stark and Pepper can't really tag them. Striking power of the DCEU duo aren't at Kryptonian levels but it doesn't have to be. Titanium Gold can be broken much easier than that.

DCEU Duo should win but Stark puts up a hard fight. Pepper is just a distraction. Even if she's wearing the same suit, Stark's battle accomplishments can't be equated with her. She lacks feats.

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Apostles

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Ironman win repulsor>>> batarang.

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PastorJarvis

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Ironman solo.

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deactivated-5ebb616323ddd

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Improved

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#8  Edited By Improved

IW ironman >>> avenger 1 thor >>>> shazam and dr sivana.

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BladeOfFury

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#10  Edited By BladeOfFury

Assuming there are no weak points in the armors, Iron Man solos regardless of the DCEU team's lightning-timing capabilities. Billy's level of strength was established when he struggled to hold up a bus, and it's ridiculously lower than Iron Man's durability, so the team will tire out before it scratches the suit.

If there are weak points (like the eyes or the uni-beam blaster), speed becomes the focus of the debate. In order for the lightning-timing to be legit, we first have to make the assumption that the deleted scene is a decent indicator of authorial intent, and also prove that intent actually matters. It must also be argued that Shazam's lightning is as fast as natural lightning, which is debatable. On one hand, it looks like lightning and has been stated to be lightning multiple times. On the other hand, there are many instances throughout fiction where so-called lightning travels at the speed of plot, so it's possible that this is one of these instances. This possibility is strengthened by the fact that Shazam's lightning isn't identical to natural lightning in other aspects, such as raw power, so if it's different in power, then why can't it be different in speed? This is where the inability presumption might come in and force us to call Billy's lightning featless in terms of speed. If that's the case, I don't believe Billy and Sivana's other speed showings are good enough to find and hit the suits' weak spots before the MCU team tags him once. There is also the possibility that the DCEU team will break their hands when punching Iron Man, which only makes matters worse.

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deactivated-5e123615b76ca

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Archangel01

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Only strong magic can hurt champions so Billy should solo

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deltahuman

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Lmao what, Shazam will break his hands punching Iron Man apparently.

Also love the hypocrisy. When MCU Thor uses lightning, that is real lightning and must be as fast as natural lightning so it will tag DCEU speedsters but DCEU Shazam can't fire real lightning, despite the fact that the lightning that gave him his powers clearly come from the sky, because Reasons.

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Eri_Joni

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Tony and Pepper.

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fatalsniper728

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#16  Edited By fatalsniper728

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Joker567892

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@deltahuman: Thor's lighting doesn't work like that, it obviously has properties exclusive to itself like that amount of damage it outputs(I doubt real lighting could damage concrete, or skyscraper sized metal ships)...

I doubt real lighting could do what Thor's lighting does, so I would assume Thor's lighting has some magical properties or some sort of enhancement.

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deltahuman

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@joker567892:

I don't know what you're trying to say honestly.

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Joker567892

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@deltahuman: Simply put Thor's lighting isn't real lightning either, it does more damage than real lighting can and has different properties.

Now do you understand?

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fatalsniper728

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Bartolomo87

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I like how a sharp object can harm a guy, therefore explosives can. Makes sense.

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TheOmniDoctor

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Did we forget that Sivana is a lot weaker when the sins are out of his body?

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subline

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Shazam duo.

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Apostles

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#24  Edited By Apostles

@deltahuman: @theomnidoctor: @subline: Ironman can hurt thanos and thanos's durability >>>> shazam.

Attacking by ironman should can build damage to they both.

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Weapons of man can't hurt hulk.

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Crunch5481

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#25  Edited By Crunch5481

yikes this thread.

Iron Man is being seriously overrated here.

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BladeOfFury

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@deltahuman: Considering the vast durability gap, Billy should break his hands. The only question is if it works like that in fiction.

And what hypocrisy are you referring to? I don’t believe I ever said that Thor’s lightning is as fast as natural lightning either.

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mossbeard

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This isn’t a close fight here

Billy’s Lightning won’t even harm Rescue, and Neither sorcerer has the damage output to destroy the nanotech armor. The only wildcard is the sins but Tony could just melt Sivana once they’re out even if Rescue gets hit.

Neither of them have any damage output comparable to the meteor Tony Tanked

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StealthCobra117

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deltahuman

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#30  Edited By deltahuman

@bladeoffury:

Sure man whatever you say. Mjolnir which wasn't even going Supersonic, one shotted Stark in his suit but Billy will break his hands punching Tony. You should watch Billy vs Sivana again. Wasn't Superman vs Zod tier by any means but still inspired by that fight.

Also that fact about Thor is a general statement. I've seen lot of people calling it real lightning and I'm fine with that. But it should apply for everybody.

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Karkus

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Iron Man and Rescue win. Shazam and Sivana are lacking in feats.

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BladeOfFury

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@deltahuman: If we're going by visual speed, then Iron Man was knocked out by a 20 kg weight moving at under 70 km/h, meaning that he would be completely destroyed by a car hitting him. If I was to use the same kind of argument against the DCEU duo, I would say that Billy and Sivana only punch as hard as regular humans, since they only weigh as much, have little skill, and their fists move about as fast. The same applies to Iron Man and Thor. This is fiction, however, where directors don't bother to speed up punches and projectiles in order to satisfy the viners' calculations, so this entire line of reasoning goes out of the window.

Those people that call it real lightning should apply it to everyone. I'm not one of those people. I do consider the subject debatable, however. My main reason for doubt is the fact that we differentiate Billy's/Thor's lightning from natural lightning in terms of power, so we're acknowledging that there are differences. How do we know that speed isn't one of them?

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Crunch5481

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#34  Edited By NWName

@deltahuman said:

"Weapons of man draw no blood from our kind" statement was mostly figurative but I don't think Stark's bullets or bombs will hurt Shazam or Sivana.

Repulsor unibeam etc might hurt them but Shazam and Sivana are extremely fast. They reached above clouds, that is Stratosphere level in seconds, putting their speed at hypersonic levels. Stark and Pepper can't really tag them. Striking power of the DCEU duo aren't at Kryptonian levels but it doesn't have to be. Titanium Gold can be broken much easier than that.

DCEU Duo should win but Stark puts up a hard fight. Pepper is just a distraction. Even if she's wearing the same suit, Stark's battle accomplishments can't be equated with her. She lacks feats.

I doubt Iron man still uses gold titanium. The minuscule amount stored inside the arc reactor would be melted by any hit above mid tier.

If anything Tony has a mountain of combat anti-feats. He goes H2H and gets his ass handed to him. Pepper has no anti feat she should be a smarter fighter.

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deltahuman

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@bladeoffury:

I get what you're trying to say but I didn't mean it was going just 70kmph. I just said it wasn't supersonic. Even professional lawn tennis players can hit balls at 150 miles per hour. Thor obviously hits much harder. Plus the suit wasn't really dented or anything. Tony was KOed by the blunt force shock. I know it's fiction but to quantify feats you have to use science. Or else no feat gets quantified.

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deltahuman

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@nwname:

I don't know. Nanotech is just nanoscale engineering. Nothing was specifically mentioned about him switching to some other alloy. And this is fiction. It's very much possible within fictional constraints that you store an entire armour in a necklace. Black Panther does the same. It's not explicitly stated but it's implied that Tony picked up nanotech after Wakanda opened up to the world and released their technological knowhow. Tony could use a similar mechanism to store his suit in his chest compartment.

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Dmnb2wavy

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#37  Edited By Dmnb2wavy

What were Shazam feats in the movie?

Iron man has feats of lifting 60-70 ton tanks and stopping half of a ship from falling

Which should be around 1,000 tons

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NWName

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@nwname:

I don't know. Nanotech is just nanoscale engineering. Nothing was specifically mentioned about him switching to some other alloy. And this is fiction. It's very much possible within fictional constraints that you store an entire armour in a necklace. Black Panther does the same. It's not explicitly stated but it's implied that Tony picked up nanotech after Wakanda opened up to the world and released their technological knowhow. Tony could use a similar mechanism to store his suit in his chest compartment.

What i was trying to say is the armor weights very little since it has less raw material and is thin like BP armor. If its still Gold and Titanium it would melt if only about a few MJ of energy hit it also if its the same material but far thinner it would by far be the most fragile armor which is definitely not the case.

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Improved

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@nwname said:
@deltahuman said:

@nwname:

I don't know. Nanotech is just nanoscale engineering. Nothing was specifically mentioned about him switching to some other alloy. And this is fiction. It's very much possible within fictional constraints that you store an entire armour in a necklace. Black Panther does the same. It's not explicitly stated but it's implied that Tony picked up nanotech after Wakanda opened up to the world and released their technological knowhow. Tony could use a similar mechanism to store his suit in his chest compartment.

What i was trying to say is the armor weights very little since it has less raw material and is thin like BP armor. If its still Gold and Titanium it would melt if only about a few MJ of energy hit it also if its the same material but far thinner it would by far be the most fragile armor which is definitely not the case.

Shazam can't build damage to ironman.

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tsunamiwave

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#40  Edited By tsunamiwave

Team Iron Man wins. Shazam can win with his powerset but Tony is a much better fighter many times over. If you were to give the Shazam powers to a skilled fighter like Captain America then I think he’d beat Tony. Unfortunately for Billy he’s not there yet.

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BladeOfFury

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@bladeoffury:

I get what you're trying to say but I didn't mean it was going just 70kmph. I just said it wasn't supersonic. Even professional lawn tennis players can hit balls at 150 miles per hour. Thor obviously hits much harder. Plus the suit wasn't really dented or anything. Tony was KOed by the blunt force shock. I know it's fiction but to quantify feats you have to use science. Or else no feat gets quantified.

It was going slower than 70 km/h though, so if you're using visual speed then that's how bad the feat would be.

If you find it reasonable to put a limit on Thor's attack based on the speed at which Mjolnir flew, wouldn't you also find it reasonable to put a limit on Billy's attacks based on the speed at which his fists travel? And since this speed is similar to that of regular humans and since the mass of his fist is similar, would you agree that an average boxer hits harder than Shazam (since he has better form)?

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fatalsniper728

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angelwithl

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#43  Edited By angelwithl

Logic: Shazam wins with trouble...

Feats: Iron Man stomps...

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Iron Man oneshots twice

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Eredin12

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Tony one-shots