MCU Hulk vs DCEU Superman striking power breakdown.

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kalkent

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In this thread, we will be taking a look at the two's best striking feats in order to determine who has better striking power.

Hulk.

Striking, in my opinion, is one of the most underrated categories of Hulk's power set here on the vine. From the beginning of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, his striking has been some of the best in the universe when you take a deeper look at it.

Image result for mcu hulk leviathan punch

One shots a leviathan and slows its momentum. This is a very impressive feat when you consider that we see the leviathans swimming through skyscrapers and taking them down effortlessly.

We see here that Hulk seems to have dented a wall made of Vibranium. Although the feat happened off screen and is lacking context, it is still a very impressive feat when taking a look at the durability of the metal.

Animated GIF\

Thor's hammer is unable to even put a scratch in the shield when he brings it down with full force, leveling a forest in the process. This same Thor leveled multiple city blocks when he brought down the hammer in Sokovia in order to prevent Ultron from succeeding in his plan.

Image result for hulk moves surtur gif

Staggers Surtur greatly when he runs in order to build up momentum for his strike. This is by far Hulk's greatest striking feat to date, considering the fact that Surtur was 4 kilometers tall, was described as shaking the entirety of Asgard just by rising, and no selling the initial explosion of Asgard.

He also was able to knock out thor in the arena after using momentum to build up his punch. This is very impressive considering thor's durability, although the taser like device may have weakened him to the point where Hulk could one shot KO him.

Superman.

On the contrary, Superman's striking seems to be the most underrated part of his particular power set. Now, I am not saying that his striking in general is underrated, but people seem to put his strength and durability as the most impressive thing about him.

Animated GIF

Casually busts the side of a kryptonian ship. Later in the film, Kryptonian metal was shown to be able to completely no sell Mach 24 re-entry impacts, yet Superman plowed through it like it was not even there.

Image result for dceu superman train punch

Punches Namek hard enough to send him across a vast distance with enough leftover momentum to derail three train engines. These train engines are in the 100-200 ton weight range.

Animated GIF

One shots the World engine with a bullrush. He did this while weakened due to the way the World Engine worked. The World engine was humongous in size and also no sold re-entry impacts.

No Caption Provided

No Caption Provided

Although more of a combined feat, the collision between Superman and Zod creates a massive shockwave. I am a bit conflicted however, as Zod was able to overpower Superman's bullrush and send him thousands of feet in the other direction and taking out two buildings in the process. This is a ridiculously impressive striking feat for Zod and with scaling, Superman should be capable of this as well.

There are more striking feats for Superman, but I feel like these are the most impressive. Feel free to give more striking feats if you wish.

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Flashkings

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Hmmmm.. idk, I'd prefer to be punched by Hulk than sups though

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Arthur_Morgan

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so who makes who bleed first?

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#4  Edited By BOC

Pretty sure what Hulk dented was secondary vibranium. Other than that, looks good.

Edit: You forgot to mention that Superman was also under constant pressure during his WE feat.

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#5  Edited By NWName

@kalkent:

Hulk

1- IIRC the wall was a Vibranium alloy not pure Vibranium. I don't see Hulk casually crushing Cap's shield or hitting way harder than Mjolnir. He would have one-punched Thanos if that was the case.

2- Thor's Sokovia hit is nearly %100 caused by the lightning energy, not the impact force of his hit.

3- Surtur was 800 meters at the start. And he reached 4 km after killing Hela and just before blowing up Asgard and dying. His shockwave feat is only relevant to his 4 km self. And in that particular scene Surtur was reduced to only ~90 meters so i don't think it would be a safe bet to say he can actually stagger a 800 meter being.

Superman:

1- The ships did not survive mach 24+ impacts. They survived mach 24+ atmospheric air drag. They landed much slower.

2- The world engine landed much slower than its top or re entry speed.

Rest seems okay to me.

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#6  Edited By Smarinteko
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Everything I'll post below needs actual verifications through calculations and the numbers are rough estimates.

Striking wise, I don't think Hulk vs Superman is much of a contest if you calculate the World Engine feat with real world physics.

The WE was apparently 600 metres tall, would have a humongous amount of mass and according to the US army guy tracking it through the satellite in the movie, was travelling down at Mach 24 and was accelerating. Such a large object hitting the earth at such high hypersonic speeds would produce multi gigaton level impact energy or more, considering an Asteroid impact roughly thrice that size can wipe out all life on earth. Idk how much speed it had while landing but even at subsonic speeds, it should have large nuke level impact energy and The WE no sold all that energy and retained its structural integrity even after landing. You could see the humongous amount of water displaced by the landing.

Now consider the fact that Superman one shotted the WE, in presence of a Kryptonian atmosphere which severely weakens him and under the direct path of a matter transmutation beam (the beam emerging from the WE increased Earth's gravity by terraforming according to the scientist, which means it was transmutating Earth's matter into something much heavier considering Krytonian elements were not even on Earth's periodic table according to Jonathan Kent). To one shot it, Clark probably would need to produce multi megaton levels of energy at the very least, depending on how much energy the WE withstanded and he did this while weakened.

A healthy DCEU Superman, functioning in his full capabilities is multiple tiers ahead of Hulk or anybody in the MCU baring guys like Dormammu or Surtur. This striking feat, if calculated by real world science is multiple tiers ahead of anything shown in the MCU. Nothing Hulk has done even remotely compares. The Surtur striking feat would be the closest that is to this feat. He was probably roughly the same height was the WE when Hulk struck him and staggered him.

Once again, whatever I've written, including the numbers I've put up are rough estimates. You should verify them with calculations.

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Everything I'll post below needs actual verifications through calculations and the numbers are rough estimates.

Striking wise, I don't think Hulk vs Superman is much of a contest if you calculate the World Engine feat with real world physics.

The WE was apparently 600 metres tall, would have a humongous amount of mass and according to the US army guy tracking it through the satellite in the movie, was travelling down at Mach 24 and was accelerating. Such a large object hitting the earth at such high hypersonic speeds would produce multi gigaton level impact energy or more, considering an Asteroid impact roughly thrice that size can wipe out all life on earth. Idk how much speed it had while landing but even at subsonic speeds, it should have large nuke level impact energy and The WE no sold all that energy and retained its structural integrity even after landing. You could see the humongous amount of water displaced by the landing.

1- The secondary W.E. superman destroyed was barely half the size of the other main ship in Metropolis. It should be closer to 250-300 meters.

2- It entered the high atmosphere at mach 24 and got faster. That doesn't mean it got faster non-stop until impact. It obviously slowed down in the lower atmosphere (it has thrusters after all) down to around mach 3 and landed even slower. I would guess to around mach 1. Considering its shape, size and likely density and the fact of its thick outter layer that should be around ~2 kiloton lowball (80 meter wide spherical main body with %10 filled volume with density comparable to titanium + the legs) and ~2300 kiloton highball(This ignores the later scene and disregards it as "not real time" and goes with mach 3, assumes 120 meter wide main body that can be entirely filled with density above even tungsten) so not actually large nuke level at subsonic speed.

3- Even a 10 km (500 000++ times the volume of the larger main ship) mach 33+ meteor can't life wipe. Ask the 65.000.000 BC Earth.

Now consider the fact that Superman one shotted the WE, in presence of a Kryptonian atmosphere which severely weakens him and under the direct path of a matter transmutation beam (the beam emerging from the WE increased Earth's gravity by terraforming according to the scientist, which means it was transmutating Earth's matter into something much heavier considering Krytonian elements were not even on Earth's periodic table according to Jonathan Kent). To one shot it, Clark probably would need to produce multi megaton levels of energy at the very least, depending on how much energy the WE withstanded and he did this while weakened.

A healthy DCEU Superman, functioning in his full capabilities is multiple tiers ahead of Hulk or anybody in the MCU baring guys like Dormammu or Surtur. This striking feat, if calculated by real world science is multiple tiers ahead of anything shown in the MCU. Nothing Hulk has done even remotely compares. The Surtur striking feat would be the closest that is to this feat. He was probably roughly the same height was the WE when Hulk struck him and staggered him.

Once again, whatever I've written, including the numbers I've put up are rough estimates. You should verify them with calculations.

Unfortunately real life science isn't simple enough to say "Oh this thing can take a 1 kiloton (tnt) impact. So anything that breaks it much be above that level." A human can, albeit barely, survive a 30000 joule impact with a relatively soft or liquid medium with 1000 kgs density (namely water) no human can survive a 300 joule bullet impact to the head or a 3000 joule hammer hit. It has alot to do with surface area difference, which superman has waaay less that the impactor that is the world engine. And the fracture strength, ductility etc. play a role in comparing impacts too. Basically making a scientific model comparing the WE impact and Superman's penetrating damage done to the WE is impossible without making several assumptions and i would say even then it wouldn't, in most cases, come above city block level impact energy.

Still his flight boosted hits or bullrushes should be above the strikes of MCU top tiers except Surtur.

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@nwgzsjuwhm96y2

It wasn't 100% lightning bolts in Sokovia. Check this out.

No Caption Provided

That's the force from the channeled Mjolnir strike

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Loading Video...

@nwgzsjuwhm96y2

Are you talking about when the ship's legs separate and that heating stops?

When compared to this, I think I can see it.

No Caption Provided

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@rajjar: Yeah thats why i said nearly %100 lightning instead of flat out %100.

And yeah thats the exact scene im talking about.

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@nwgzsjuwhm96y2: We can actually quantify the damage output of Tony's heat seal, but it requires 0.25x or 0.5 speed on a video

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@rajjar: Do you mean overloading the spire up to 300% or something? I remember noticing something like that like 2 years before. But i don't think we can put a number on it since the spiral was powering up anti-gravity tech instead of normal thrusters. And assuming it was the energy of the machine that lifred sokovia instead of the anti-gravity magic it would result in Iron man having enough energy to pulverise Sokovia 1000 times over or something like that.

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@nwgzsjuwhm96y2 said:

@rajjar: Do you mean overloading the spire up to 300% or something? I remember noticing something like that like 2 years before. But i don't think we can put a number on it since the spiral was powering up anti-gravity tech instead of normal thrusters. And assuming it was the energy of the machine that lifred sokovia instead of the anti-gravity magic it would result in Iron man having enough energy to pulverise Sokovia 1000 times over or something like that.

Loading Video...

Look very closely between the 0:56 and 0:57 mark and you'll see the blue light pop up near the bottom before Sokovia fully explodes. It's distinct because there isn't any damage immediately associated with that glow, so it's not like the rest of the offensive energy emission that is blowing up the rest of Sokovia.

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@kalkent: I always think his Ultron punch is underrated tbh.

Good thread.

Edit - except for the usual fanboy fan clac stuff gets boring.

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@darthvaderrocks: yep it cuts away mid flight but he easily sent partly vibranium large humanoid machine miles into the air lol yet it’s always overlooked.

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Everything I'll post below needs actual verifications through calculations and the numbers are rough estimates.

Striking wise, I don't think Hulk vs Superman is much of a contest if you calculate the World Engine feat with real world physics.

The WE was apparently 600 metres tall, would have a humongous amount of mass and according to the US army guy tracking it through the satellite in the movie, was travelling down at Mach 24 and was accelerating. Such a large object hitting the earth at such high hypersonic speeds would produce multi gigaton level impact energy or more, considering an Asteroid impact roughly thrice that size can wipe out all life on earth. Idk how much speed it had while landing but even at subsonic speeds, it should have large nuke level impact energy and The WE no sold all that energy and retained its structural integrity even after landing. You could see the humongous amount of water displaced by the landing.

Now consider the fact that Superman one shotted the WE, in presence of a Kryptonian atmosphere which severely weakens him and under the direct path of a matter transmutation beam (the beam emerging from the WE increased Earth's gravity by terraforming according to the scientist, which means it was transmutating Earth's matter into something much heavier considering Krytonian elements were not even on Earth's periodic table according to Jonathan Kent). To one shot it, Clark probably would need to produce multi megaton levels of energy at the very least, depending on how much energy the WE withstanded and he did this while weakened.

A healthy DCEU Superman, functioning in his full capabilities is multiple tiers ahead of Hulk or anybody in the MCU baring guys like Dormammu or Surtur. This striking feat, if calculated by real world science is multiple tiers ahead of anything shown in the MCU. Nothing Hulk has done even remotely compares. The Surtur striking feat would be the closest that is to this feat. He was probably roughly the same height was the WE when Hulk struck him and staggered him.

Once again, whatever I've written, including the numbers I've put up are rough estimates. You should verify them with calculations.

Wow didn't even think about the landing impacted how durable it was.

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#22  Edited By MrTrey

@deltahuman: @nwgzsjuwhm96y2:

No Caption Provided

The plane in this pic is a C-17 Globemaster III, which is around 53 meters long, and the Black Zero is almost 20x bigger than it, which would make it around 1 kilometer in height.

No Caption Provided

The WE is around/a bit more than 6/10th of the Black Zero's size, so around 600 meters.

Loading Video...

Based on this shot and going frame by frame the WE covered the comparably sized mountain's height in around a 1/4 of a second at the moment of impact, so it should still be decently hypersonic. Nowhere close to life-wiping, but still a massive impact overall.

No Caption Provided

The resulting kilometer+ wide explosion also failed to completely vaporize the WE like it would likely do so to any real metal, as we see in BVS where large pieces of it are still intact (even the sphere, which would receive the most explosive energy still has a large piece left).

No Caption Provided

So two cases of extreme durability.

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WE landing impact didn't release anywhere near the energy of the nuke.

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CocaColaMan

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I think Superman has better striking. He scales above Zod, who has striking feats better than Hulk.

Without scaling to Zod, Hulk is better due to the Vibranium feat.

Discounting the Vibranium feat, we get into an interesting discussion. Superman should logically have stronger bullrushes, because I don’t see Hulk doing what Superman did to the World Engine. But at the same time, Hulk’s is also extremely impressive if we look at everything.

As far as regular striking, Superman has better feats consistently, but Hulk’s high ends are pretty freaking good. The Leviathan Leveler is a feat that should be on the same level as the Train Toppler. The Wall Wacker is impressive, mostly because of how casual it was, but Hulk’s physical inferior in Thor is a casual thousand-ton striker based off his fingertips crushing Tony’s Armor. Overall, though, I think Superman is better, since he has both quantity and quality on his side, while Hulk just has quality. Plus, Superman seems more powerful on average based off a glance.

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@cocacolaman said:

I think Superman has better striking. He scales above Zod, who has striking feats better than Hulk.

Without scaling to Zod, Hulk is better due to the Vibranium feat.

Discounting the Vibranium feat, we get into an interesting discussion. Superman should logically have stronger bullrushes, because I don’t see Hulk doing what Superman did to the World Engine. But at the same time, Hulk’s is also extremely impressive if we look at everything.

As far as regular striking, Superman has better feats consistently, but Hulk’s high ends are pretty freaking good. The Leviathan Leveler is a feat that should be on the same level as the Train Toppler. The Wall Wacker is impressive, mostly because of how casual it was, but Hulk’s physical inferior in Thor is a casual thousand-ton striker based off his fingertips crushing Tony’s Armor. Overall, though, I think Superman is better, since he has both quantity and quality on his side, while Hulk just has quality. Plus, Superman seems more powerful on average based off a glance.

I'd agree that Clark has better striking, but is Hulk really tiers below him? I have to confront that alot.

And what do you think about Thor's striking here? This is the Mjolnir shockwave from Sokovia..

No Caption Provided
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#26  Edited By arqe

@rajjar: No it didn't. He triggered Ultron's machine and that explosion destroyed Sokovia.

That wave is coming from Mjollnir hitting machine and activating it. It is not Mjollnir's shockwave.

Stop overestimating his hits.

Also you should be the one watching that clip again and again. His lightning literally pops for a second and its gone. Like a taking a photo with flash. It comes and goes in an instant. Watch it at x0.25 speed.

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@arqe said:

@rajjar: No it didn't. He triggered Ultron's machine and that explosion destroyed Sokovia.

That wave is coming from Mjollnir hitting machine and activating it. It is not Mjollnir's shockwave.

Stop overestimating his hits.

You're lying and trolling - Stark and Friday agreed that Thor would crack Sokovia into pieces without the heat seal by hitting the Vibranium spire. And I've heard what you've said about Steppenwolf taking on Power+Space Stone Thanos, so no ethos for you. I never claimed he destroyed Sokovia once in my entire time on comicvine. I don't need to take your headcanon suggesting that the shockwave came from the machine's activation.

Plus, it looks similar to the lightning shockwaves from Ragnarok.

And his lightning popping for a second doesn't mean anything, it's more powerful than real lightning and doesn't act like it anyway.

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@rajjar: I don’t think Hulk is any tier below Clark. I just think Superman is on the higher end of that tier.

Thor’s feat there is underrated as heck, it’s easily above anything a DCEU character did, but that’s a hit Amped from 16 seconds of lightning charge. Hulk, nor anyone else in the MCU except MAYBE Hela, scales to that feat.

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@cocacolaman said:

@rajjar: I don’t think Hulk is any tier below Clark. I just think Superman is on the higher end of that tier.

Thor’s feat there is underrated as heck, it’s easily above anything a DCEU character did, but that’s a hit Amped from 16 seconds of lightning charge. Hulk, nor anyone else in the MCU except MAYBE Hela, scales to that feat.

Yeah, it's charged, but the lightning that caused Sokovia to crack was a single bolt after the strike. I find that really stupid. Wbu?

No Caption Provided

And what do you think of the above? We found script confirming the lightning shockwave traveled to Thor's friends.

Independently, I daresay Clark's hits are often amped by the speed he generates for extra momentum. Kinda like the gravity acting on Hulk when he slammed into Surtur, who was shrunken for that scene.

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@rajjar: I find Thor’s ice feat to be insanely impressive. Tbh, all of his big feats are. The only reason I think Superman beats him is the speed advantage. Speed equalized, Thor’s whooping him. Better in literally EVERY other way except flight maneuverability. He’s stronger, hits harder, is more durable, has better energy projection, etc.

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@cocacolaman said:

@rajjar: I find Thor’s ice feat to be insanely impressive. Tbh, all of his big feats are. The only reason I think Superman beats him is the speed advantage. Speed equalized, Thor’s whooping him. Better in literally EVERY other way except flight maneuverability. He’s stronger, hits harder, is more durable, has better energy projection, etc.

I too was backing Clark's speed, but when I saw the cloak in IW -

No Caption Provided

I shifted Thor 5.5/10

Because I was like, what's the chance Clark is going to be continually blitzing with blows hard enough to take Thor out for good, and then was like, if Clark is committing to the constant speedblitz, the cloak's lightning ought to deter him from doing that, because JL Barry's lightning is faster than his statue-mode, and Thor's cloak has some good destructive capability behind it.

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#32  Edited By NWName

@mrtrey:

Pixel scaling puts the main ship at ~770 meters. I would guess the one that resulted in 1 km did not include the back of the plane. Or did i mess something up?

And a shot with better perspective (with the ships being much closer to each other) shows the WE being roughly %40 of the main ship. And at the very last second before impact it was roughly going 2 times its length in a second. And the pic you provided with the wreckage makes me think its likely around %90 empty. I guess it should be around a 10 kt impact or a bit less. We don't know its density it can be a super material with relatively low density.

The explosion seems about the same size with the WE's height. With high-explosive like behavior that fireball would take around 4.5 kt and around 10 kt with nuclear like behavior. Thats enough to melt 2300 to 5200 m³ of steel. So it wouldn't melt normal metal of that size let alone vaporize it.

Its still practically impossible to calc Superman's feat since it needs us to make so many assumptions about the thing that it basically becomes something like fan fiction. And like i said surviving an x kt impact with 100s to 1000s of m² of surface area and softer material is vastly different than surviving a x kt impact over less than half m² surface area with a projectile that is made out of a stronger material.

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@rajjar: Problem with that statement about his cloak is how inconsistent it is. Even in IW (what's considered prime Thor I guess), it's completely absent when he's one shotting Outriders and since Thor isn't gonna be flying in battle against Superman because he'll he too busy getting his head caved in by Superman punches which will result in a quick KO.

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@rajjar: Just watched the Hela bridge fight and I don't think his lighting cloak was on at all, he even did a spin where he could have hit her with it and nothing came out.

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#35  Edited By MrTrey

@nwgzsjuwhm96y2: The angled perspective on your first pic would make it the less useful view, the WE would appear smaller in that angle compared to a shot that has the full height of both, I don't know how you would think that's more accurate just because they're closer. Plus its legs are open to release the World Engine, it can't be compared unlike my pic where they're closed. We also have a size comparison in this special feature video.

No Caption Provided

So around 57%, not counting the obscured top part connected to the Black Zero, so more like over 60% like I said.

No Caption Provided

Given this pixel size, it'd be a bit over 964 meters, and I believe someone else calced it to 986 meters. I don't get how you got 770 meters unless you extended it beyond the nose and into the lightning bit, or maybe your pic editor did something weird and stretched it out since it's sideways?

No Caption Provided

Using my original pic and pixel scaling I also got around 603 meters, almost exactly like I estimated.

It's sphere is also completely full of that liquid geo that attacked Superman, so it's not anywhere close to empty.

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@darthvaderrocks said:

@rajjar: Problem with that statement about his cloak is how inconsistent it is. Even in IW (what's considered prime Thor I guess), it's completely absent when he's one shotting Outriders and since Thor isn't gonna be flying in battle against Superman because he'll he too busy getting his head caved in by Superman punches which will result in a quick KO.

Like the quick KO he gave Nam-Ek, Faora, Zod, or any of the JL while bloodlusted? I think it's just a matter of scaling relative to Thanos. Because scaling Thanos in the DCEU is a big problem without that VFX knockback and shockwave which Kryptonians have yet Thanos does not. Considering what Hulkbuster put Hulk through in AoU, I'd say Thanos packs more in those purple fists than the dc capabilities it took for Hulkbuster's thrust putting Hulk into the ground and the collapse of the building as a hole. Meanwhile, Clark's strikes are either against mid-tiers who don't have good durability feats (like Diana) or his own high-tier race. The only thing he did to DD was amp him after the nuke, and the MoS Kryptonians don't actually have good durability feats on high-tier level without scaling off Clark. Hell, Zod's "re-entry" slowed to the point where it shattered a window and some stone. As for Clark KOing a person more durable than most of the people I've mentioned, it really becomes a consistency problem for him. Which is ironic because he actually has consistent showings. Showings as consistent as Thor's lightning + Mjolnir feats.

And I'd say he'd fly in a battle against Clark. Clark flies, and will fly, and the only time we didn't see IW Thor flying during combat in Wakanda was when he was talking with Cap.

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@darthvaderrocks said:

@rajjar: Just watched the Hela bridge fight and I don't think his lighting cloak was on at all, he even did a spin where he could have hit her with it and nothing came out.

Prolly because Hela's energy durability is really, really high since she got up from his biggest lightning blast, and because Thor doesn't have a weapon like Mjolnir to focus the lightning power with. Cloak wouldn't do anything since she has durability feats from bigger lightnings. SB changes things, though, but to what level, I know not. That's because uru turns lightning into city-block level lightning.

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@rajjar said:
@darthvaderrocks said:

@rajjar: Problem with that statement about his cloak is how inconsistent it is. Even in IW (what's considered prime Thor I guess), it's completely absent when he's one shotting Outriders and since Thor isn't gonna be flying in battle against Superman because he'll he too busy getting his head caved in by Superman punches which will result in a quick KO.

Like the quick KO he gave Nam-Ek or Faora? I think it's just a matter of scaling relative to Thanos.

Kryptonians have higher blunt force durability than Thor. Even if we take unadapted Zod and look at his fight in Metropolis, he never bled from being punched. Thor has, in fact, been TKOed by Thanos who’s strikes are less than, or equal to Superman’s. This is also coupled with the fact that the general consensus is that Thor is subsonic at most in both movement and reaction speed, Superman is above both. So in theory, he makes pretty quick work of Thor, especially without his lightning amps.

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@rajjar said:

Like the quick KO he gave Nam-Ek or Faora? I think it's just a matter of scaling relative to Thanos. Because scaling Thanos in the DCEU is a big problem without that VFX knockback and shockwave which Kryptonians have yet Thanos does not. Considering what Hulkbuster put Hulk through in AoU, I'd say Thanos packs more in those purple fists than the dc capabilities it took for Hulkbuster's thrust putting Hulk into the ground and the collapse of the building as a hole. Meanwhile, Clark's strikes are either against mid-tiers who don't have good durability feats (like Diana) or his own high-tier race. The only thing he did to DD was amp him after the nuke, and the MoS Kryptonians don't actually have good durability feats on high-tier level without scaling off Clark.

And I'd say he'd fly in a battle against Clark. Clark flies, and will fly, and the only time we didn't see IW Thor flying during combat in Wakanda was when he was talking with Cap.

He didn't possess the speed he does now against Namek or Faora, and him not being able to ko them is just a good feat for them. And for the last point, thor could fly, but Superman is a much more agile and proficient flyer than Thor is.

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@rajjar said:
@darthvaderrocks said:

@rajjar: Problem with that statement about his cloak is how inconsistent it is. Even in IW (what's considered prime Thor I guess), it's completely absent when he's one shotting Outriders and since Thor isn't gonna be flying in battle against Superman because he'll he too busy getting his head caved in by Superman punches which will result in a quick KO.

Like the quick KO he gave Nam-Ek or Faora? I think it's just a matter of scaling relative to Thanos.

Kryptonians have higher blunt force durability than Thor. Even if we take unadapted Zod and look at his fight in Metropolis, he never bled from being punched. Thor has, in fact, been TKOed by Thanos who’s strikes are less than, or equal to Superman’s. This is also coupled with the fact that the general consensus is that Thor is subsonic at most in both movement and reaction speed, Superman is above both. So in theory, he makes pretty quick work of Thor, especially without his lightning amps.

Why would Thor not have lightning amps? And why would Clark constantly blitz with the statueforce? If we are doing best of abilities here, then Thor BFDs with real lightning that travels at sub-sub-relativistic speed.

And Zod not bleeding from a punch Clark gave him doesn't really tell much, considering what it implies at face value is that Kryptonians have real trouble hurting each other. We don't have baseline striking power for Clark's punches, so we can't say Zod will no-sell building level or city-block level or whatever-level strikes without some scaling and further analysis. Concerning that though...

We have to look at the forces of said strikes and then scale. Which can't really be compared because Thor's taken the strikes that have propelled him far distances but got beaten down by strikes that didn't, which shows why we can't translate DCEU metrics to Thor or Hulk due to said problem.

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@kalkent said:
@rajjar said:

Like the quick KO he gave Nam-Ek or Faora? I think it's just a matter of scaling relative to Thanos. Because scaling Thanos in the DCEU is a big problem without that VFX knockback and shockwave which Kryptonians have yet Thanos does not. Considering what Hulkbuster put Hulk through in AoU, I'd say Thanos packs more in those purple fists than the dc capabilities it took for Hulkbuster's thrust putting Hulk into the ground and the collapse of the building as a hole. Meanwhile, Clark's strikes are either against mid-tiers who don't have good durability feats (like Diana) or his own high-tier race. The only thing he did to DD was amp him after the nuke, and the MoS Kryptonians don't actually have good durability feats on high-tier level without scaling off Clark.

And I'd say he'd fly in a battle against Clark. Clark flies, and will fly, and the only time we didn't see IW Thor flying during combat in Wakanda was when he was talking with Cap.

He didn't possess the speed he does now against Namek or Faora, and him not being able to ko them is just a good feat for them.

He used that speed to avoid a punch, and to punch before Steppenwolf (who scripts every punch he's made, some more than others) struck him on the second time. He's also used it to react to Flash, which is consistent to how Post-Crisis Clark did to Flash (pretty sure it was Barry as well). I don't buy the statueforce beatdown idea because that seems to be way too DBZ-like for any on-screen scene in the DCEU to emulate.

And Thor getting KOed by Thanos is a good feat for Thanos. I'm willing to accept both because they operate on the same scaling method, and if I can accept the scaling method as a premise, I ought to accept the conclusions that arise from it.

Otherwise, it is my obligation to lowball the hell out of it.

And for the last point, thor could fly, but Superman is a much more agile and proficient flyer than Thor is.

I'll concede this due to it being undeniable fact.

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Thors sokovia feat is still visually the best to me, when it comes to fan calcs tho I don't know but they can kiss my a** since they have a lot pf speculation and assumptions that the directors used the same calcs and thought when showing it

I just find it easier to say Hulk, Superman and Thor have comparable striking power although I know a few enthusiasts will have a problem with that

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Thors sokovia feat is still visually the best to me, when it comes to fan calcs tho I don't know but they can kiss my a** since they have a lot pf speculation and assumptions that the directors used the same calcs and thought when showing it

I just find it easier to say Hulk, Superman and Thor have comparable striking power although I know a few enthusiasts will have a problem with that

What do you think about the Jotunheim feat?

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@rajjar: I'm not sure, the ground was able to support all the frost giants and those big monsters but it was hollow so I don't know

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@rajjar said:
@nightgate said:
@rajjar said:
@darthvaderrocks said:

@rajjar: Problem with that statement about his cloak is how inconsistent it is. Even in IW (what's considered prime Thor I guess), it's completely absent when he's one shotting Outriders and since Thor isn't gonna be flying in battle against Superman because he'll he too busy getting his head caved in by Superman punches which will result in a quick KO.

Like the quick KO he gave Nam-Ek or Faora? I think it's just a matter of scaling relative to Thanos.

Kryptonians have higher blunt force durability than Thor. Even if we take unadapted Zod and look at his fight in Metropolis, he never bled from being punched. Thor has, in fact, been TKOed by Thanos who’s strikes are less than, or equal to Superman’s. This is also coupled with the fact that the general consensus is that Thor is subsonic at most in both movement and reaction speed, Superman is above both. So in theory, he makes pretty quick work of Thor, especially without his lightning amps.

Why would Thor not have lightning amps?

This is simply a scenario. He didn’t use his lightning amps against Hulk until the out of body experience which told us that Thor has the ability to fight without his lightning, it’s just not his best. I personally think it’s unfair to remove a characteristic that is fundamental to a character, like Thor’s lightning.

And why would Clark constantly blitz with the statueforce?

Clark doesn’t need to blitz to use “statue force”, it’s his perception of time when moving at certain speeds. For example, him avoiding Steppenwolf’s punch was an example of him using his “statue force” without blitzing. Therefore, he doesn’t need to blitz to statue, he just needs to move fast enough, which we know he can do, casually.

If we are doing best of abilities here, then Thor BFDs with real lightning that travels at sub-sub-relativistic speed.

Thor’s BFD wouldn’t do anything to either of them. Also, can you post the sub-sub-relativistic stuff, I need that.

And Zod not bleeding from a punch Clark gave him doesn't really tell much, considering what it implies at face value is that Kryptonians have real trouble hurting each other.

Because they have higher blunt force durability.

We don't have baseline striking power for Clark's punches,

We do, they’re at the very least Supersonic.

so we can't say Zod will no-sell building level or city-block level or whatever-level strikes without some scaling and further analysis. Concerning that though...

We have to look at the forces of said strikes and then scale. Which can't really be compared because Thor's taken the strikes that have propelled him far distances but got beaten down by strikes that didn't, which shows why we can't translate DCEU metrics to Thor or Hulk due to said problem.

If the metrics are so vastly different then they can’t really scale to each other and really shouldn’t even fight. ?

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@nightgate said:
@rajjar said:
@nightgate said:
@rajjar said:
@darthvaderrocks said:

@rajjar: Problem with that statement about his cloak is how inconsistent it is. Even in IW (what's considered prime Thor I guess), it's completely absent when he's one shotting Outriders and since Thor isn't gonna be flying in battle against Superman because he'll he too busy getting his head caved in by Superman punches which will result in a quick KO.

Like the quick KO he gave Nam-Ek or Faora? I think it's just a matter of scaling relative to Thanos.

Kryptonians have higher blunt force durability than Thor. Even if we take unadapted Zod and look at his fight in Metropolis, he never bled from being punched. Thor has, in fact, been TKOed by Thanos who’s strikes are less than, or equal to Superman’s. This is also coupled with the fact that the general consensus is that Thor is subsonic at most in both movement and reaction speed, Superman is above both. So in theory, he makes pretty quick work of Thor, especially without his lightning amps.

This is simply a scenario. He didn’t use his lightning amps against Hulk until the out of body experience which told us that Thor has the ability to fight without his lightning, it’s just not his best. I personally think it’s unfair to remove a characteristic that is fundamental to a character, like Thor’s lightning.

Ah.

Clark doesn’t need to blitz to use “statue force”, it’s his perception of time when moving at certain speeds. For example, him avoiding Steppenwolf’s punch was an example of him using his “statue force” without blitzing. Therefore, he doesn’t need to blitz to statue, he just needs to move fast enough, which we know he can do, casually.

Well yeah, but Clark's not pulling a DBZ style flurry with it, which is the only way Thor gets down so quickly - where he gets 0 time to recover.

Thor’s BFD wouldn’t do anything to either of them.

Not likely. On showings displayed, building level strikes should floor a Kryptonian. City-block level strikes should KO them. Multi-city block? Perish the thought.

Also, can you post the sub-sub-relativistic stuff, I need that.

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1029/GL014i011p01150

Because they have higher blunt force durability.

For MoS Kryps, based on what objectively? If you're going to say Clark's punches, I'd need some blunt force metrics on those - well - the one's you have in mind, so I can fully understand where you're going with this.

We do, they’re at the very least Supersonic.

I was referring to destructive capability, though.

If the metrics are so vastly different then they can’t really scale to each otherand really shouldn’t even fight. ?

Sad and hilarious part is that that was my claim all along, and I can't really contest what I was arguing, lmao.

Like, see, I'm only backing Thor 5.5/10, and if Clark abuses speed, then I'd back Clark 8-9 out of 10. Speed isn't the real argument here since Clark's obv faster, but it's more about if Thor's lightning can counter it before Thor gets KTFO.

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@rajjar: Nam-Ek and Faora have armor on and he still was doing work on them when he hit them. Zod's blunt force durability is far better than Thor's so those are feats for Zod.

Term bloodlusted gets thrown way too casually on this vine. If Superman was actually bloodlusted he would have killed then all via neck snap without them knowing, popped their heads like Nam-Ek, cut their necks with heat vision, etc.

Only one's who rely on scaling are Faora and Nam-Ek and even that's iffy because we all know there's a difference between being a adapted Kryptonian and not. Zod gets all his durability feats from that final battle in MOS where he tanking everything Clark threw at him but just because he did that does not mean Thor can. That's dumb thinking.

I've told you before Thor would fly if he actually could understand what was happening to him, but he won't. State force is a meme but there's also truth behind it. DCEU Kryptonians like Superman, Doomsday and to a lesser extent Zod really do fight at mach speeds, this just cannot be ignored.

Sorry if I wasn't clear but when I mean it didn't do anything to Hela I mean lighting didn't come out. There was no cloak in that scene.

"Biggest lighting blast" my ass. Didn't even destroy anything in that scene. His biggest lighting is Sokovia and Jotunheim easily.

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@darthvaderrocks said:

@rajjar: Nam-Ek and Faora have armor on and he still was doing work on them when he hit them.

Armor as strong as that slowed re-entry metal of the World Engine? I dunno about that.

Zod's blunt force durabilityis far better than Thor's so those are feats for Zod.

"Zod's more durable than Thor because of these feats, and these are feats for Zod because he's more durable than Thor." is rather circular reasoning if you ask me. Unless there are other feats that confirm Zod's blunt force durability.

Term bloodlusted gets thrown way too casually on this vine. If Superman was actually bloodlusted he would have killed then all via neck snap without them knowing, popped their heads like Nam-Ek, cut their necks with heat vision, etc.

Nam-Ek still would have bodied him unless he dodged.

Only one's who rely on scaling are Faora and Nam-Ek and even that's iffy because we all know there's a difference between being a adapted Kryptonian and not. Zod gets all his durability feats from that final battle in MOS where he tanking everything Clark threw at him but just because he did that does not mean Thor can. That's dumb thinking.

And Clark's punches are quantified to what, exactly? Does Clark consistently hit to any level of dc? Refer to my second statement.

I've told you before Thor would fly if he actually could understand what was happening to him, but he won't. State force is a meme but there's also truth behind it. DCEU Kryptonians like Superman, Doomsday and to a lesser extent Zod really do fight at mach speeds, this just cannot be ignored.

Mach fighting during flight really is just linear travel, which hardly is anything special. Statue force is a meme because Clark used it against a speedster who was trying to blitz him and Steppenwolf's hook, which, by the way, he saw coming from a distance before speed-mode turned on.

And Thor can react to supersonics, so it's not like realistic statue-force (non-meme) is gonna fully work before the lightning strikes. He did perceive Quicksilver, after all. He's dealt with people much faster than him before.

Sorry if I wasn't clear but when I mean it didn't do anything to Hela I mean lighting didn't come out. There was no cloak in that scene.

Ah,

"Biggest lighting blast" my ass. Didn't even destroy anything in that scene. His biggest lighting is Sokovia and Jotunheim easily.

Because 100% of those feats required uru. And Asgard's rock and construction material is super-durable, too. There's a reason you can't build a giant city on a planetoid and let it drift off into space. There's a reason most bodies in space are spherical in nature. It's quite the fundamental force, too.

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@rajjar: No but this also doesn't matter. It's strong and that's all there is to it and he still did damage.

There is and it's in the MOS fight. Thor hasn't shown feats to suggest he could replicate that. Zod isn't getting hurt by a rock being thrown at him like Thor was.

Dodge what? My point wasn't about Nam-Ek persay but when he popped a humans skull. If Superman was actually bloodlusted he'd just do that but he wasn't.

There doesn't need to be DC to hurt Thor lmfao. Clark's punches are quantified by speed, momentum and obviously force. No reason to ignore him hitting people 100 feet away with super sonic punches because they don't hurt his own race who have shown to be very durable constantly.

Superman is faster than Quicksilver and Thor never actually perceived Quicksilver in a way that he could hurt him. If he could he would have. So again Thor isn't tagging Superman before he's already KO'd.

Doesn't disprove what I said.