MCU hulk vs DCEU SteppenWolf

No, based on what you see on screen you can absolutely tell that most of those are aim dodging(not sure why I said blocking but whatever). Her being able to perceive bullets slower doesn't matter when you clearly see her move before the guns are fired many times in those scenes. There is nothing wrong with my math just because you do not like it. But, I really shouldn't be surprised by someone that always lowballs the MCU. Have a great day, this conversation is over.

I just proved they weren't aimdodging by the fact that she also has several feats of her tracking bullets, during the Amazon fight, No mans island, bank scene. The bullets are also clearly fired before she moves. Her being able to percieve bullets makes a lot of difference.

I have no problem with your math, its just not right. reacting to mach 2 projectiles doesn't make you 1.5x faster than reacting to 115m/s projectile. It makes you alot faster.

Now you're just reaching, when did I lowball MCU and make it always, its you who is wanking MCU right now.

We've seen numerous times Diana reacted to bullets after they've been fired. She's indefinitely a bullet timer. Her turning around to react to someone shooting means she's reacting to the round after it's left it's chamber, unless you want to admit Diana has precognition to an enemy that's not in her peripheral vision.

Her having feats of tracking bullets does not, in any way, prove that a scene where you literally see her move before the bullet is fired, is bullet timing. By the very definition that is aim dodging. Am I saying she had to aim dodge? No, but the simple fact is that many of those were aim dodging. You are simpifying and leaving out the fact that at the time that Hulk reacted, the projectile was NOT moving at 115 m/s and it was only between 5-10 feet away from him and he had to turn all the way around and catch the rpg in the other hand. The simple fact, whether you like it or not, is that in that feat he was reacting at mach 2. It's been calced, double and triple checked by multiple people. Get over it. And again, this conversation is over, you are boring me.

I guess that's also aimblocking. But no need to derail the thread. Hulk is nowhere near WW. SW matched her in combat, he wrecks.

-matched someone who is barely faster than hulk and inferior in every way sans weapons

-wrecks hulk

-_-

@drpepperman: lol....hulk is a speedster or a bullet timer now heh? Go figure

Gotta love the idiotic idea some people have that only speedsters can react to bullets or better speeds. It's like they think that just because the person can't run that fast, they can't react faster than they run because you know, screw physics.

@rr79: if only that person doesn't see mach 2 projectiles at slow motion heh? Because screw physics. You're still comparing someone catching a loud subsonic projectile to a casual bullet timer. I mean how can someone make up that much rubbish from a single comic panel?

I've proven you know absolutely nothing about physics or even math before, do we really have to get into this again from one of the biggest DCEU wankers/MCU lowballers on the site? Get over it, in your mind only a speedster could possibly have reaction speeds like that. I guess Batman can't bullet time either right? Do you even think about what you post before you post it?

@rr79: lol....you must be really desperate to reach this far. My entire comment was about Diana being a low level speedster because she's proven it time and time again, by running and by casually deflecting bullets from multiple angles. Like always you make stupid claims, Diana is aim dodging but hulk catching a loud subsonic projectile isn't?

Your comment was that you could not believe that Hulk would have that fast of reactions because he wasn't a speedster. Don't try and change it now. You already said it and everyone saw it. By your logic Batman can either no longer bullet time or is now a speedster.

@rr79: lol....you can't read as well? This is getting interesting. I like how you're able to infer so much from little information and simultaneously somehow miss all of hulk's consistent speed feats in the movies

BTW I replied to a post claiming Diana was barely faster than hulk

Right there in black and white. By your logic Batman must be a speedster since he can bullet time. Or he can't bullet time anymore. Which is it?

Hulk.

Hulk.

@rr79: did you try reading the comment right before mine? Diana is a low level speedster, hulk is not. Do you get it? Steppenwolf matching her means he's at least close to her reaction wise

Your comment makes no sense no matter how you try to spin it. Either A) you are trying to say that you have to be a speedster to be able to bullet time or have reactions in that range, or B) you are trying to say that Diana always uses her speed(which has been proven false months ago). Steppenwolf has no speed feats putting him faster than Hulk, period. The ONLY reaction feat he has is with a missile that is slower than the RPG that Hulk caught.

@rr79: What tie in are you getting that Mach 4 Hulk reaction from? You do know The Incredible Hulk the Fury Flies isn't canon to the MCU right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Cinematic_Universe_tie-in_comics

@macleen: Just because WW is faster than hulk doesn't mean steppenwolf is faster than hulk. All he did was wildly swing a giant axe. If he was shown outspeeding ANYONE or even properly keeping up with Diana in speed, I would have understood the point. His punches were super slow-motion to superman.

The only speed feat he has is reacting to a super-slow missile which even Batman was able to react to, at a much closer range, with his back turned.

In terms of strength, only feat step has is matching Diana+arthur's strength in tug-of-war. Even combined, these two aren't even close to hulk's league of strength. Arthur sent steppenwolf flying like 10 feet. Hulk sent ultron flying hundreds of times that.

Now, let's come to steppenwolf's axe, which still doesn't have damage output anywhere near Thor's lightning punches. Hulk took them and stood back up within seconds, waiting for more. And steppenwolf's axe can be taken off from him and thrown out of the battle.

@apex_pretador: Just because WW is faster than hulk doesn't mean steppenwolf is faster than hulk. All he did was wildly swing a giant axe. If he was shown outspeeding ANYONE or even properly keeping up with Diana in speed, I would have understood the point. His punches were super slow-motion to superman.

I'm not sure what you mean wildly when he was clearly blocking WW swings and doing rather well even when she was joind by AC in their final fight. So according to you, he has to outspeed Diana for him to have cooler feats? And being superslow to Superman isn't bad, it's not like Hulk can contend with or anything.

The only speed feat he has is reacting to a super-slow missile which even Batman was able to react to, at a much closer range, with his back turned.

I can also say the same for Hulk, his RPG feat was also replicated by Cap when he dodged one after Widow fired it in Wintersoldier at also much closer range with his back turned.

In terms of strength, only feat step has is matching Diana+arthur's strength in tug-of-war. Even combined, these two aren't even close to hulk's league of strength. Arthur sent steppenwolf flying like 10 feet. Hulk sent ultron flying hundreds of times that.

Based on? What feats makes Hulk a lot more superior to Diana let alone she and Aquaman combined. I didn't realize we were comparing Aquaman striking feats to Hulk's, we all know he is superior so its moot.

Now, let's come to steppenwolf's axe, which still doesn't have damage output anywhere near Thor's lightning punches. Hulk took them and stood back up within seconds, waiting for more. And steppenwolf's axe can be taken off from him and thrown out of the battle.

And Hulks punches don't have the damage output of Supermans punches and SW took them and stood back up. Hulk will have to tag SW for him to do that and based on the speed difference, it'll be a hell of a challenge to do it without getting smacked on the face.

@apex_pretador: Damn, you need to format your posts, its hard to reply when they are scattered.

Blocking isn't that hard when you have a ten feet long weapon which your opponent fears

And only "blocking" was that both of them were clashing their sword and axe.

Maybe, but you have to be very quick to counter someone using a shorter weapon since they will be quick to the draw and swings. And SW didn't just block, he was also tagging and dropping Diana.

He simply doesn't have feats that's what I am saying. Diana has never danced around any opponent with her speed. In terms of speed, she has shown quick reflexes and fast perceptions that's it but she has never shown the skill to use her speed in combat.

Funny thing is, neither has Hulk. Her quick reflexes and perception didn't help her against SW which is the point I'm making. She has used her skill in combat since her first battle on the Amazon island, what skills are you looking for?

Even doomsday was casually dodging her in BvS. Same DD who was casually punching/dodging and catching a blitzing Superman. Also DD>>>Hulk, bad analogy.

Being superslow to superman isn't bad, but when he appears so slow that barely seems to be moving, it is bad. BvS Superman is the same as J superman since superman had no sunlight exposure since BvS.

Once again Superman >>>>>>>>>>>Hulk speedwise. He'll be more than a statue to Superman.

He caught the rpg from like 5 feet away. Which is good but still unimpressive.

And Cap has super-speed, Bruce does not. Cap has danced around characters like Crossbones, Iron Man, war machine, etc and kept up with spiderman, Black panther, loki. Bruce has never danced around a non-fodder opponent or even a fodder.

WHat superspeed does Cap have? He did that using skill and a weapon. The rest isn't even good to bring up. Neither Warmachine, Spiderman and Loki were serious and were very much holding back. Spiderman was inexperienced and Cap shield caught him offguard. Tonny was held back by massive PIS+ Russo force Its not even funny. He outskilled BP not outspeed. Smae BP who was only interested in killing Bucky.

Also the missile took like ten seconds to reach AFTER batman reacted to, and ducked it. You do realize I have the movie? I suggest you go back and count again before claiming it was 10 seconds to reach Batman.

On the other hand, we have abomination catching an anti-tank Stark-Industries missile. When was this?

What feats diana has to even contend with Hulk? For instance, Diana exerted effort to lift the tank overhead, while hulk was able to catch a similar tank - falling at high speed. It's her first solo movie obviously she'll be weaker, and Hulk exerted effort lifting an armored vehicle. And I'm pretty sure hulk caught an APC which weigh around 9-20 tons. Even so, how does that put him out of WW's league?

Diana threw tank like 5 feet, while hulk tossed it far away. He threw it offscreen, hard to tell how far. Still, how does that put him out of WW's league?

Diana, Arthur and Cyborg failed to even make a massively holding back superman (who wasn't even paying attention to them) flinch, while Hulk caught Thor's warhammer swing without any problem, just by getting angrier. The guy who held up an oil rig, pulled a ship and lift a building. Superman>>>>> Hulk poor comparison. And Diana did make him flinch, they both did actually. Can you quantify that hammer swing?

I know superman is well above hulk in physicals, but you can't be serious if you think that hulk doesn't have the strength to make a holding back, not-paying-attention superman flinch. Based on feats, Superman won't even notice him realistically. So yes. He is more than 10x stronger.

He's not just superior, but hundreds of times superior. I'll concede to this due to lack of feats. But Hulk is not hundred times superior to Diana though.

I could argue that Hulk's punches aren't that far off from superman, but it is irrelevant. Steppenwolf took like 3 punches from superman, and they were not continuous.

And Hulk took how many of Thor's lightning punches?

Also, Superman was barely trying. For comparison, a much weaker superman (MoS) sent Zod (a much stronger, more durable character than step and who could actually fly) flying much farther than he did to steppenwolf. He sent Doomsday (much stronger and heavier than steppenwolf) flying farther than steppenwolf against the gravity. Now look back at those fights and tell me superman was even hitting him with a fraction of his strength.

Thor was also throws Hulk with a meagre jab and heavily dazed him. It's a pretty obvious and happens a lot in fiction, characters that have the ability to throw opponenets far away sometimes fail to do so.

Hell, he even joked about steppenwolf "you still having trouble with this guy"? Same Superman would stomp Hulk.

Show me mr-untaggable-speedster Steppenwolf dodging anything at all.

And like I said, Steppenwolf doesn't even come close to being in the same league as what hurt hulk briefly.

ANd neither is Hulk

@macleen:

Damn, you need to format your posts, its hard to reply when they are scattered.

I'm using quote bocks to format my post. If you're not on phone, it feels nice.

Maybe, but you have to be very quick to counter someone using a shorter weapon since they will be quick to the draw and swings. And SW didn't just block, he was also tagging and dropping Diana.

I don't want to be that guy but humans also tagged diana. And Hulk was also able to tag Thor.

And Diana didn't have trouble tagging steppenwolf either.

Funny thing is, neither has Hulk. Her quick reflexes and perception didn't help her against SW which is the point I'm making. She has used her skill in combat since her first battle on the Amazon island, what skills are you looking for?

By combat-skill, I mean dancing around opponents, like Thor did against surtur and Hulk.

Same DD who was casually punching/dodging and catching a blitzing Superman. Also DD>>>Hulk, bad analogy

Which shows that the difference in speed between Superman and Diana isn't that big. Now Steppenwolf was a statue to him.

Once again Superman >>>>>>>>>>>Hulk speedwise. He'll be more than a statue to Superman

I think you used a bit too many arrows but I agree.

Which is good but still unimpressive

More impressive than catching a very slow missile

WHat superspeed does Cap have? He did that using skill and a weapon.

What skill? When did Cap train? Oh, and it doesn't matter if it is skill or speed, if Cap can repeatedly dodge blows from a casual bullet timer, who also happen to be one of the most skilled fighters on planet (BP) then it is fast.

Just look back at TFA. He goes from slower than an average human to being far faster than any IRL human can possibly be, by taking the serum.

And what does cap have anything to do with this? He has speed feats, Bruce doesn't. He moves like human, Cap doesn't.

The rest isn't even good to bring up. Neither Warmachine, Spiderman and Loki were serious and were very much holding back.

Assumption. War Machine failed to tag Cap even with a blitz, and WM has shown to casually fly mach 0.3 and even surpass sound barrior, making sonic booms.

Cap (or any super soldier) has consistent been shown to be faster than the likes of Tony, Hulk, Ultron, Rhodey, and very close to Thor, loki and spidey.

Spiderman was inexperienced and Cap shield caught him offguard. Tonny was held back by massive PIS+ Russo force Its not even funny. He outskilled BP not outspeed. Smae BP who was only interested in killing Bucky.

Cap sttill kept up with spidey, tagging him easily while spidey struggled to tag cap.

Tony showed casual arrow timing in the same scene and failed to lay hands on Cap. In the final fight again, tony failed to tag Cap till he analyzed his fight battern.

BP has shown bullet timing, and cap could repeatedly dodge his blows

You do realize I have the movie? I suggest you go back and count again before claiming it was 10 seconds to reach Batman.

To reach steppenwolf. Batman was standing very close to nightcrawler.

When was this?

The incredible Hulk (2008) final fight

It's her first solo movie obviously she'll be weaker

No, it is after she powered up.

and Hulk exerted effort lifting an armored vehicle. And I'm pretty sure hulk caught an APC which weigh around 9-20 tons. Even so, how does that put him out of WW's league

It's his first solo film, he was MUCH weaker. (atleast don't use double standards)

I'm talking about AoU opening fight

He threw it offscreen, hard to tell how far. Still, how does that put him out of WW's league

He threw it out of range of screen (which would mean more than 40-50 feet). Still over 10x farther than Diana did, possibly much more

The guy who held up an oil rig, pulled a ship and lift a building. Superman>>>>> Hulk poor comparison. And Diana did make him flinch, they both did actually.

Stark pushed a ship. Hulk pulled down a leviathan which was as big as that building. She did it with a headbutt, but when she, arthur and cyborg attacked him at once, they didn't make him flinch.

If we are talking striking feats, Hulk blows Diana out of water so hard it is not even funny.

Can you quantify that hammer swing?

Yes, in earlier moments of that fight, Thor was able to send hulk flying THROUGH the alien metal hundreds of meters, AGAINST the momentum of Hulk's jump. But Hulk caught and completely stopped a similar (actually a stronger swing since Thor had more momentum behind it) swing without any problem, just by getting angry.

Hulk's anger-increase is a real thing and is going to manhandle Steppenwolf

Based on feats, Superman won't even notice him realistically. So yes. He is more than 10x stronger.

Not true. I was planning to do a Thor/Superman CaV but currently I'm too busy in like half a dozen other CaVs. I will do that one as soon as I get time.

Superman can easily beat Hulk, with or without speed, but to say he won't even notice him is lowballing when hulk has comparable if not better striking feats than supes.

I'll concede to this due to lack of feats. But Hulk is not hundred times superior to Diana though

Never said so, but he is still far superior.

And Hulk took how many of Thor's lightning punches?

2 of them, and it only took him a few moments to recover. Both of these punches did far more damage than steppenwolf has done in his life.

Thor was also throws Hulk with a meagre jab and heavily dazed him.

Those "meagre jabs" caused much bigger colateral damage than Superman and Zod ramming into each other full speed, full power

It's a pretty obvious and happens a lot in fiction, characters that have the ability to throw opponenets far away sometimes fail to do so

Or Superman wasn't simply hitting him with full force. Considering how he wtfstomped justice league while holding back to a ridiculous degree and steppenwolf struggled with Diana and arthur, it makes sense.

You are using him getting stomped by superman as a feat so you have to prove superman was hitting him with even close to his full strenght.

On the other hand, I can say that he hit steppenwolf with same strength he hit arthur, since both were sent flying about the same distance.

You know one more thing that happens a lot in fiction? Characters don't operate at their best all the time. Therefore, scaling can be misleading.

Same Superman would stomp Hulk.

He stomped steppenwolf while not even hitting him with a fraction of his strength.

This.

@apex_pretador: You're still not healing. If we keep this up in the next few posts it will probably too long to read through. Let me summarize your arguments

Hulk=/= Superman. Stop using Supermans feats for Hulk. If Superman did something, it doesn't mean Hulk will replicate. So you saying Superman did this and that is moot. And what strength feats does Hulk have that are comparable to Superman? Leviathan was a punching feat otherwise Superman took out the world engine which is much bigger than Leviatahan and a lot more durable while weakened. When it comes to lifting, his best is throwing an APC, not even a 100ton feat while Superman lifts entire buildings 7000+ tons feat. Thats more than 10x hence he won't even notice Hulk realistically.

If you're going to continue comparing Superman to Hulk, then first prove Hulk=Superman otherwise just stop.

Look at all the times Diana was tagged by humans, its from the back(once with bullets, other with the butt end of a gun) which we can agree she has no spidey-sense. Otherwise she was wrecking them even in the bank scene you can clearly see her dash from human to human and beating them easy. I never said Diana had trouble tagging SW, they were both evenly matched in terms of speed.

So Thor danced around Surtur, does he have any supersonic feats? And the same Thor danced around Hulk yet he is not faster tha WW either.

The difference in speed between Superman and WW is so big that she was a statue, watch JL.

Lol how many arrows do you think is enough?

You keep saying slow missile, how fast do you think it was? and how is a 115m/s RPG any more impressive?

Gallery

These were military weapon's not Starks. They always have the Stark logo.

You said Cap had super-speed, I asked for feats. Who else apart from QS in MCU is a casual bullet timer? We all know what a speeding QS did to Cap. He is definitely not even close to bullet timing based on that showing alone.

I don't know what IRL is but Cap is not ridiculously faster than humans. Watch the elevator scene. Also find a human with even a good amount fo skill and you have Batroc, Cap wasn't a speedster to him. Other feats include Bucky's run with Widow, suitless Ironman, Sharon, Falcon. All the above humans are not enhanced. Only thing you could argue is travel speed which I agree is faster than humans but its still not blitzing speeds.

Spidey never struggled to tag Cap, he was taken off guard by his shield, even suggests its not obeying the laws of physics. Also I like how you keep bringing Cap, Take away his shield. Bat doesn't have a shield, what dodging feats does he have that would put him above Bruce?

He threw it out of range of screen (which would mean more than 40-50 feet). Still over 10x farther than Diana did, possibly much more

And you know this how? You still haven't explained how this feat puts Hulk out of WW's league.

When did Stark push a ship, unless you mean pushing one side of a ferry with the help of several additional repulsor thrusters? Leviathan is a punching feats. What is the weight fo the Leviathan?

Agreed Hulk beats Diana in striking, but Diana decapitates him in a fight.

Where was his anger increase in AOU, Avengers, Ragnarok?

I could do a Superman/Thor CAV but I'm still having trouble with gifs. Superman won't notice Hulk in the strength(lifting) department based on feats, what's your reason?

And what has Hulk punches done to Thor? Since SW took Superman's and still fought on.

You know one more thing that happens a lot in fiction? Characters don't operate at their best all the time. Therefore, scaling can be misleading. Yet you don't have a problem doing so, why should I?

Because his fraction of strength has done what exactly?

Gallery

@macleen:

You're still not healing

I don't have a healing factor

Hulk=/= Superman. Stop using Supermans feats for Hulk. If Superman did something, it doesn't mean Hulk will replicate. So you saying Superman did this and that is moot. And what strength feats does Hulk have that are comparable to Superman?

First of all, you brought superman. Superman is someone who isn't even in the same league as steppenwolf or the league, he is far beyond them.

Hulk isn't superman. However, his striking feats are comparable, and his strength feats are in the same league.

Leviathan was a punching feat

He also pulled down another leviathan

And even in the "punchng feat", he exerted strength by holding his fist to slow its momentum.

Superman took out the world engine which is much bigger than Leviatahan and a lot more durable

A lot more durable based on what? And it is not much bigger than leviathan, if at all.

Superman took out WE by flying through it, by creating superman sized holes in it, with a lot of momentum and effort. He'd have done the same to steppenwolf with less effort if he wanted.

When it comes to lifting, his best is throwing an APC

His best feat is pulling down a leviathan and second best feat is slowing momentum of another one.

If you're going to continue comparing Superman to Hulk, then first prove Hulk=Superman otherwise just stop.

I'm not comparing Superman to hulk. I am just saying that hulk is in the same league as superman or a tier below at best. You are trying to imply that hulk can't even make a non-serious holding back, distracted superman flinch.

And second, Hulk's striking feats are as good as superman's BEST striking feats WHEN SUPERMAN ISN'T HOLDNIG BACK if not better

The difference in speed between Superman and WW is so big that she was a statue, watch JL.

She was never a statue to him. Infact, she even reacted to Flash pushing her sword back.

Watch BvS - while she was slowed than DD, she was still able to block all his hits, so not that slower. And Superman is same with same amount of sun exposure in both JL and BvS

You said Cap had super-speed, I asked for feats. Who else apart from QS in MCU is a casual bullet timer? We all know what a speeding QS did to Cap. He is definitely not even close to bullet timing based on that showing alone.

Black Panther but a bullet in half after it's fired in a tie in comic

These were military weapon's not Starks. They always have the Stark logo.

Stark manufactured weapons for the army. You need to watch IM again

You keep saying slow missile, how fast do you think it was?

and how is a 115m/s RPG any more impressive?

Not all RPG's travel at the same speed. And even if it was 115 m/s, at 5m it would give hulk 0.043 seconds to react to it. In this frame, hulk reacted and even catched it.

The missile took 3 seconds to reach steppenwolf. He had 3 seconds to react and catch it, THREE SECONDS

Now, it is unknown how far away steppenwolf was, but let's highball and say that he was a thousand feet away, i.e. 300 m. That puts the missile at 100 m/s - slower than rpg by your own numbers. And given the missile's far bigger size, it would be easier to catch it at precise moment than the rpg.

Plus we have the stark-missile feat, which abomination did with his back turned

I don't know what IRL is but Cap is not ridiculously faster than humans

IRL means in real life

Watch the elevator scene. Also find a human with even a good amount fo skill and you have Batroc, Cap wasn't a speedster to him

Yes watch the elevator scene again. They were ganging up on a holding back, one-armed steve with no room to manuever, still took him out in a minute

Batroc instance only shows how much Cap holds back. Watch the fight again. In the initial sequence, batroc catches him off-guard but right after Cap flips back up, he blocks every single strike from Batroc. And if Batroc had kept up with Cap, it would have been a feat for him.

Other feats include Bucky's run with Widow, suitless Ironman, Sharon, Falcon

Bucky isn't skilled. He doesn't know how to use his speed effectively in combat.

Still, Widow has fought him multiple times, and widow has arrow-timing feats - and she has never dodged one strike from bucky. Neither did falcon or Sharon I believe

Plus there is always plot going there to not have these characters die instantly

Only thing you could argue is travel speed which I agree is faster than humans but its still not blitzing speeds

Enhanced Super Soldiers are faster than regular humans, or atleast much faster than what dceu bruce has shown.

Spidey never struggled to tag Cap

Show me him tagging cap, webbing not included

what dodging feats does he have that would put him above Bruce?

Shield doesn't give cap dodging feats, or outspeeding feats

And you know this how?

Watch the scene

You still haven't explained how this feat puts Hulk out of WW's league.

Hulk's casual feat in less powerful incarnation is literally 10x better than Diana's best feat

When did Stark push a ship, unless you mean pushing one side of a ferry with the help of several additional repulsor thrusters?

The thrustors didn't arrive when Stark pushed it up. They only arrived after stark was done

Unlike Superman who did it on ice, Tony actually lifted half the ferry which was falling down, against gravity

What is the weight fo the Leviathan?

What is the weight of the building? Leviathan is as big if not bigger than the building

Agreed Hulk beats Diana in striking, but Diana decapitates him in a fight

Whether or not can Diana decapitate Hulk is a different thread's matter. What matters is that Steppenwolf cannot decapitate Hulk or even cut hulk

I could do a Superman/Thor CAV but I'm still having trouble with gifs. Superman won't notice Hulk in the strength(lifting) department based on feats, what's your reason?

Read this thread, very helpful

Live-action debating guide by @the_red_viper

I won't be able to do a CaV right now, or in upcoming weeks. A lot of CaV's already

However, I could help if someone was willing to do this CaV

The way these threads always turn into flame wars haha

@apex_pretador:

I don't have a healing factor Lol, good to know. I meant hearing, sorry.

First of all, you brought superman. Superman is someone who isn't even in the same league as steppenwolf or the league, he is far beyond them.Hulk isn't superman. However, his striking feats are comparable, and his strength feats are in the same league. He also pulled down another leviathan. And even in the "punchng feat", he exerted strength by holding his fist to slow its momentum.

I brought Superman as a counter to your scaling from Thor. You're the one comparing Hulk to Superman. What is the Leviathan's weight, otherwise the feat is unquantifable, he only slowed down its momentum by smashing its head on the ground, it's why it toppled over. So it's still not impressive until you can calculate the exact weight of the beast and put in the fact that Hulk only slowed it down. Otherwise it's unquantifiable.

A lot more durable based on what? And it is not much bigger than leviathan, if at all.

Gallery

That's the size of the mothership compared to skycrappers and the slave ship. Thats a lot bigger than laviathan.

It nosold reentry heat and Mach 24(while still accelerating) drop from space. Leviathan is nowhere near that. Superman not only did it against strong opposing forces, he did it while weakened and had to recharge after.

Superman took out WE by flying through it, by creating superman sized holes in it, with a lot of momentum and effort. He'd have done the same to steppenwolf with less effort if he wanted.

Whether he took it by flying or not, he took it down while weakened something more durable and bigger than Hulk's. Also flying into things is part of his attack.

His best feat is pulling down a leviathan and second best feat is slowing momentum of another one.

Which is smaller, lighter, less durable than the WE

I'm not comparing Superman to hulk. I am just saying that hulk is in the same league as superman or a tier below at best. You are trying to imply that hulk can't even make a non-serious holding back, distracted superman flinch.

Only thing Hulk could even be n the same league with Superman is strike and that's debatable. He outclasses hulk in Durability, lifting strength, speed, versatility, energy projection, attack potency...

And second, Hulk's striking feats are as good as superman's BEST striking feats WHEN SUPERMAN ISN'T HOLDNIG BACK if not better

Feats please.

She was never a statue to him. Infact, she even reacted to Flash pushing her sword back. Watch BvS - while she was slowed than DD, she was still able to block all his hits, so not that slower. And Superman is same with same amount of sun exposure in both JL and BvS

Show me WW reacting or even percieving the fight Superman had with Flash.

Black Panther but a bullet in half after it's fired in a tie in comic. Ever heard of outliers?

Stark manufactured weapons for the army. You need to watch IM again.

And like I said his weapons are branded in all their appearences. Not every weapon the MCU US army comes from Stark, There are obviously other industries such as HAMMER who are Starks compettitors. Other weapons such as the Hellcarrier, F22s etc don't come from Stark.

Not all RPG's travel at the same speed. And even if it was 115 m/s, at 5m it would give hulk 0.043 seconds to react to it. In this frame, hulk reacted and even catched it. Which I don't disagree or weren't you paying attention in my earlier post with another user. That feat is still very much below WW's average feats.

The missile took 3 seconds to reach steppenwolf. He had 3 seconds to react and catch it, THREE SECONDS

And what timeframe did Hulk have?

Now, it is unknown how far away steppenwolf was, but let's highball and say that he was a thousand feet away, i.e. 300 m. That puts the missile at 100 m/s - slower than rpg by your own numbers. And given the missile's far bigger size, it would be easier to catch it at precise moment than the rpg. No way was SW 300 meters away. He wasn' even 100 meters away.

Plus we have the stark-missile feat, which abomination did with his back turned Not Stark's.

IRL means in real life. In real life even I could kill Cap with a gun from a distance of 10+ meters. Just take away his shield.

Yes watch the elevator scene again. They were ganging up on a holding back, one-armed steve with no room to manuever, still took him out in a minute. He wasn't holding back, on the contrary he was using his strength to a point you can see him struggling. If he was as fast as you're trying to make him then Rumlov would have tag him more than once.

Batroc instance only shows how much Cap holds back. Watch the fight again. In the initial sequence, batroc catches him off-guard but right after Cap flips back up, he blocks every single strike from Batroc. And if Batroc had kept up with Cap, it would have been a feat for him. Which translates to skill, not speed. It can't be a feat for when there is plenty of other instances.

Bucky isn't skilled. He doesn't know how to use his speed effectively in combat. Based on?

Still, Widow has fought him multiple times, and widow has arrow-timing feats - and she has never dodged one strike from bucky. Neither did falcon or Sharon I believe Point is she is not an enhance human or you forgot our entire argument.

He got tagged easy, he just bulldozed them using his superior strength, nothing speedwise.

Plus there is always plot going there to not have these characters die instantly. WHich has nothing to do with speed but rather durability.

Enhanced Super Soldiers are faster than regular humans, or atleast much faster than what dceu bruce has shown. Feats please, not statements, show me something that cap has done without the aid of his superstrength and shield that regular and peak humans couldn't do

Show me him tagging cap, webbing not included. Shield doesn't give cap dodging feats, or outspeeding feats. Watch the scene

He never bothered to close in for cqc, he was obviously following Ironman's orders "keep your distance, web them up". On top of than he is very inexperienced. Let me ask you, do you think Cap can fight QS at cqc if you equalize strength and durability?

Hulk's casual feat in less powerful incarnation is literally 10x better than Diana's best feat

The thrustors didn't arrive when Stark pushed it up. They only arrived after stark was done

Here is the vid, he only took over Spiderman in holding the ship in place, with the help of spiderman's webs but started pushing when his thrustors arrived

Unlike Superman who did it on ice, Tony actually lifted half the ferry which was falling down, against gravity. What is the weight of the

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/which-dceu-supermans-feat-is-more-impressive-jl-sp-1910167/

building? Leviathan is as big if not bigger than the building.Whether or not can Diana decapitate Hulk is a different thread's matter. What matters is that Steppenwolf cannot decapitate Hulk or even cut hulk

Really? I never expected that argument from someone like you. The ship was ploughing through the ice not sliding ontop of it

Gallery

Maybe small building level, Not the big ones, or Stark's tower and certainly not Skycrapper size. Superman lifted the building from the ground against gravity hulk pulled a flying animal by the mouth =/= the same.

Leviathan is not even comparable to a building in size.

Read this thread, very helpful

Live-action debating guide by @the_red_viper

I won't be able to do a CaV right now, or in upcoming weeks. A lot of CaV's already

However, I could help if someone was willing to do this CaV

Thanks, I will later.

@macleen: First of all, we know that MCU Iron Man is much taller than DCEU Superman. Iron Man is much taller than Cap who is 6'2". We will use them as comparison

Now let's see the comparison

The blue bar near the right is height of Superman in this image

Clearly the leviathan is MUCH bigger.

Now, let's talk about other factors which I have yet to include:

• Iron Man is actually taller than Superman. In this image comparison, Iron Man is scaled shorter than Kal. Result: Leviathan would be bigger than what it looks like
• Superman's head isn't visible in the scene, his knees are bent. Therefore, I could not measure his full height. Therefore, the blue bar should have been taller. Result: Leviathan would be bigger than what it looks like
• Error in accounting for the alignment of Superman (He's not standing straight) would result in blue bar getting shorter. If it was corrected, blue bar might be taller. Result: Leviathans would be bigger than what it looks like
• Leviathans are wearing thick metal armor, building is just made of concrete and stuff. Result: Leviathans would be far heavier
• Buildings are mostly empty from inside, while leviathans are filled with tissue as it is a living being. Result: Leviathan is far heavier

Superman lifted the building from the ground against gravity hulk pulled a flying animal by the mouth =/= the same

On the other hand, Superman's feat is flight assisted while Hulk's feat is pure muscle strength

And the leviathans have anti-gravity technology.

Leviathan is not even comparable to a building in size

You're correct, it is far bigger

@apex_pretador: First of all, we know that MCU Iron Man is much taller than DCEU Superman. Iron Man is much taller than Cap who is 6'2". We will use them as comparison

I'm pretty sure Ironman is 6'5. Not sure about Supermans height in DCEU but Cavill is 6'1. Thats not much at all. And Superman is his classic 6'3 then its just 2 inches difference.

Now let's see the comparison

The blue bar near the right is height of Superman in this image. Clearly the leviathan is MUCH bigger.

Bigger in terms of length. What about height, width. Also you don't know the weight of the leviathan. If we use real world physics then the building will be denser than the beast and thus heavier.

Also something to note, the distance of the building is a lot further than the leviathan.

Now, let's talk about other factors which I have yet to include:

• Iron Man is actually taller than Superman. In this image comparison, Iron Man is scaled shorter than Kal. Result: Leviathan would be bigger than what it looks like
• Superman's head isn't visible in the scene, his knees are bent. Therefore, I could not measure his full height. Therefore, the blue bar should have been taller. Result: Leviathan would be bigger than what it looks like
• Error in accounting for the alignment of Superman (He's not standing straight) would result in blue bar getting shorter. If it was corrected, blue bar might be taller. Result: Leviathans would be bigger than what it looks like
• Leviathans are wearing thick metal armor, building is just made of concrete and stuff. Result: Leviathans would be far heavier
• Buildings are mostly empty from inside, while leviathans are filled with tissue as it is a living being. Result: Leviathan is far heavier

Superman lifted the building from the ground against gravity hulk pulled a flying animal by the mouth =/= the same

On the other hand, Superman's feat is flight assisted while Hulk's feat is pure muscle strength. Flight is his power and he had to dig it out of the ground, lift it over his head for him to use his flight. Also Hulk isn't affecting the whole weight of the leviathan, he is pulling on the head and the whole Lev follows. Its weight is already counterbalanced by it's ability to fly. The only thing Hulk has to do is tip over/upset that equilibrium and the Lev drops.

And the leviathans have anti-gravity technology.

Leviathan is not even comparable to a building in size

You're correct, it is far bigger Based on length, not height, width and weight. Building is still bigger.

@macleen:

You are not accounting for the factors like the difference in heights of Clark and Tony, Clark having his knees bent and his head not being visible.

I'm pretty sure Ironman is 6'5. Not sure about Supermans height in DCEU but Cavill is 6'1. Thats not much at all. And Superman is his classic 6'3 then its just 2 inches difference.

Pretty sure Superman was never 6'3, but either 6'2 or 6'1

But I'll take your word for it and try again to scale the images.

Remember, I'm still not accounting for clark's bent knees.

you don't know the weight of the leviathan. If we use real world physics then the building will be denser than the beast and thus heavier

You don't know the weight of the building either

And leviathan would be much denser. It has a thick metal armor all over it, and is an actual being with tissues inside it, while buidlings are made of much lighter concrete and are empty from inside

That's the size of the mothership compared to skycrappers and the slave ship. Thats a lot bigger than laviathan.

It nosold reentry heat and Mach 24(while still accelerating) drop from space. Leviathan is nowhere near that. Superman not only did it against strong opposing forces, he did it while weakened and had to recharge after.

On a second look, it does seem bigger than leviathan, but superman only flew through its core, which is far smaller than a leviathan.

I don't remember it actually impacting the ground at mach 24, can you show me link/video/time in film? Kryptonians have high technology, they can slow their ships down before landing.

And again, the only thing he did was flying through core of the WE. It isn't even remotely comparable to killing a leviathan, slowing its momentum, pulling it down or even comparable to lifting that building. Him flying through the ship didn't even move the weight or shook it. He just flew through it like a bullet and impaired its functions

he took it down while weakened something more durable and bigger than Hulk's. Also flying into things is part of his attack

He didn't try to fly through steppenwolf so it is irrelevant

Which is smaller, lighter, less durable than the WE

Weight of the world engine doesn't matter. Did he affect the weight in any way? No.

All he did was fly through its core which impaired its functions. And the core isn't bigger than the leviathan.

Less durable? The core has no durability feats, and I don't remember it landing without slowing down.

Only thing Hulk could even be n the same league with Superman is strike and that's debatable

And Superman rekt Steppenwolf with those strikes, actually much weaker strikes since he was barely trying.

Everytime steppenwolf was hit, he was down for more than 15 seconds

He outclasses hulk in Durability,

so? Steppenwolf's best attack doesn't even come close to damaging hulk

lifting strength,

True but steppenwolf doesn't.

speed,

He saw steppenwolf as near-statue

versatility,

But wolf has no versatility except an axe, and Hulk has dealt with weapons before

energy projection, attack potency

Wolf doesn't have anything like that though.

Feats please.

• Leviathan feat > train feat
• Ultron feat > Zod-punching feat
• Surtur punching feat > Any feat superman has done
• infact even back in TIH, hulk hitting the ground with a hammerfist caused massive damage compared to what Namek's hammerfist did in MoS

Remove flight buildup and hulk hits harder

I'm not getting any mach 4 reaction from anywhere, the mach 2 reaction comes from one of the tie ins that has been confirmed to be fully canon. Nice try though Manonthemountain. Did you get banned and have to create a new name or something?

Leviathan punch > any blunt attack Steppenwolf took.

Skyscraper feat > any attack Steppenwolf can dish out.

Blitzing a supersonic character (abomination effortlessly, as in flicking a bug effortlessly, caught a missile from behind when he only moved as the missile was about three feet away from him) is at least comparable to fighting a bullet perceiver.

@drpepperman:

hulk down and bloody nose from chitari fire

hulk dazed from bull rushing abomination

hulk ko from cement weights

hulk ko from the jet jump

hulk dazed from a minor toss from hulkbuster

hulk looses a tooth from a minor hit

valkarie easily drops him

yeah, your logic seems legit.

Ahh Academic is back, the guy that takes up as much space as possible in a single post to say as little as possible and most of it wrong.

Hulk smashes puny man!!!

@rr79:

@apex_pretador:

uhmm

scene clearly shows the low yield nuke destroying whales and the chitari mother ship.

sup multiple times busted through kryptonian metal.

we also see the Leviathan doing zero damage to a taxi ( and its tires)

@dcuwins said:

@rr79:

Definition of Irony, using a useless meme to call another post useless while making your own post useless in the process.

Steppenwolf is Tough but hulk is just to Strong And durable plus his striking power is no joke I'm not even convinced steppenwolf can hurt hulk, but hulk is definitely not one shoting him

@rr79: Lmao no clue who that is but their obviously much smarter than you :)

Hulk gets destroyed bro not sure what you're still on about. Steppenwolf has superior speed and ap but nice try RR. No one has to LOWBALL to come to that conclusion haha.

Steppenwolf wind due to speed and axe. I will gladly present feats if you continue to dispute that.

Lmao, sure you don't know who that is. And it is just a coincidence that they disappear and you appear with the same initials to their name. You aren't fooling anyone. Get lost.

LOL, wow top notch rebuttal there.

You don't have any real arguments. I'll take that woeful response as a concession.

Steppenwolf stomps.

Don't need a rebuttal for someone that lies. Not worth my time.

@apex_pretador:You are not accounting for the factors like the difference in heights of Clark and Tony, Clark having his knees bent and his head not being visible. Pretty sure Superman was never 6'3, but either 6'2 or 6'1. But I'll take your word for it and try again to scale the images.Remember, I'm still not accounting for clark's bent knees.

Superman is usually 6'3, though I'm not sure what DCEU uses.And you're not accounting for the difference in the distance between the 2 screenshots. The building and Superman are a lot further. I do know his standard height to be 6'3 but I'm not sure what height DCEU uses.

You don't know the weight of the building either Maybe but there are people who are knowledgeable in construction, and the materials used are from earth so its not that hard to approximate, same with the ship. And I did give you a link where they calculated it unlike the alien beast.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/which-dceu-supermans-feat-is-more-impressive-jl-sp-1910167/?page=2

And leviathan would be much denser. It has a thick metal armor all over it, and is an actual being with tissues inside it, while buidlings are made of much lighter concrete and are empty from inside

Not really, its a flying animal. If we go by real life sicence and common sense then it should be lighter same goes for its metal in order to reduce weight. And the fact that that beast requires armor implies its not that durable hence Ironman busted it with his missile and even flew through it. This means its less dense than concrete and also hollow too.

On a second look, it does seem bigger than leviathan, but superman only flew through its core, which is far smaller than a leviathan.

It is bigger, one is contending with Skycrapper while the other witha 5 storey building. Thats a big size difference. I didn't see a core, the bulk head is still bigger and is capable of harbboring several small Kryptonian pods and in the fact that its has better durability.

I don't remember it actually impacting the ground at mach 24, can you show me link/video/time in film? Kryptonians have high technology, they can slow their ships down before landing.

No, it was mach 24 and accelerating not slowing, "MACH 24 AND ACCELERATING" on the contrary, it was picking up more speed.

And again, the only thing he did was flying through core of the WE. It isn't even remotely comparable to killing a leviathan, slowing its momentum, pulling it down or even comparable to lifting that building. Him flying through the ship didn't even move the weight or shook it. He just flew through it like a bullet and impaired its functions

The bulk head you mean. No matter how you undersell the feat Superman still busted it. Hulk didn't kill any Leviathan, Ironman did. Slowing its momentum means nothing when you don't know the weight and he hit it one the head causing it to topple. We all saw what happens when he hit it on its back, he only dented the armor, if his strength was anywhere near the weight of the leviathn then smacking it with his two fist would have definately dropped it. And it's nowhere near lifting a building or busting WE. And that is his only best feat Superman still has another where he casually busts the bulk head with a hammer fist when not weakened by Kryptonian atmosphere which is a lot more impressive than Hulk denting the leviathan.

He didn't try to fly through steppenwolf so it is irrelevant.Weight of the world engine doesn't matter. Did he affect the weight in any way? No. All he did was fly through its core which impaired its functions. And the core isn't bigger than the leviathan.

And Hulk never replicated his punch with the leviathan, in fact his average puches< Superman average. The core you keep calling is made of what? The bulk head is bigger than the Leviathan definitely.

Less durable? The core has no durability feats, and I don't remember it landing without slowing down.

I just showed you it tanking reetry and you claim it has no durability feats? And it was accelerating not slowing down.

This is the bulkhead you keep calling the core. Anyone who is not visualy impared can see the same metal is used to build the whole ship.

And Superman rekt Steppenwolf with those strikes, actually much weaker strikes since he was barely trying.Everytime steppenwolf was hit, he was down for more than 15 secondsso? Steppenwolf's best attack doesn't even come close to damaging hulk

And Superman would stomp Hulk. And neither was Thor's jab yet it dazed him. He wasn't down for 15 seconds unless you can provide evidence.

True but steppenwolf doesn't.He saw steppenwolf as near-statue.But wolf has no versatility except an axe, and Hulk has dealt with weapons before

And Hulk has what versatility. SW has also dealt with weapons so I don't see how this gives Hulk the advantage.

Wolf doesn't have anything like that though.

• Leviathan feat > train feat <<< WE feats
• Ultron feat > Zod-punching feat Zod >>> Hulk and Ultron
• Surtur punching feat > Any feat superman has done Unquantifiable, no feats for Surtur. ANd script says otherwise.
• infact even back in TIH, hulk hitting the ground with a hammerfist caused massive damage compared to what Namek's hammerfist did in MoS What is Nam ek doing here. Train feat>>> APC feat

Remove flight buildup and hulk hits harder Obvously thats what MCU need to even contend which show how weak their characters are that you have to handicap DCEU characters for you to get anywhere. Remove Hulk's one outlier and we see if he hits harder.

Sorry, I'm having trouble linking the video here it is. Lol wrong vid, this is the one

Hulk punches him into dust

Steppenwolf cuts him in half