MCU: Erik Killmonger Vs Captain America & Spiderman

Morals off and Bloodlusted

Standard gear

Location: Mt Everest

Killmonger

Team

Define standard gear for Killmonger.

@outside_85: Golden Jaguar suit with Daggers

Erik wins if he can release energy.

Killlmonger.

Wow...Most of people are voting for Killmonger...Is he that much powerful?

Well, Spidey webs him up and Steve sits on his head.

Honestly dont see why. Cap alone Vs. Killmonger is debatable. IMO Cap could stalemate him on his own. With Spidey there he can web him up while Cap is fighting him.

I'd say Killmonger.

@chrisgodwin00: No, he and Panther are pretty much identical on pretty much all levels. Just the whole overrating of the vibranium suits that has been going on for a while.

Cap handled T'Challa fine together with Spidey he wins this handily.

Team. New movie hype will blind everyone for a while

@ldm: Like always than after a while people come to there senses well some

there only chance is to web him up because all Steve is going to do by hitting him is charge his suit with strikes. Killmonger would destroy Cap

I don't think its to debatable with his suits area of effect attacks. But yea the team wins. Cap provides interference while Peter webs him up. Seems like an easy enough way of defeating Killmonger without powering his suit up.

Both BP and Killmonger were both audibly grunting with pain from each others punches while falling on to the train way.

Killmonger would definitely feel Caps punches and Spideys, let alone hits with the shield edge.

Steve’s essentially a battery pack for Erik’s kinetic energy blast in this battle, only making it easier for him to take out Peter. And on top of that, Killmonger is pretty skilled with his spear (less so with his Wakandan ceremonial sword), so I could see Spidey disarming that one from him. The Vibranium suits have ridiculous durability/kinetic energy absorption feats now.

@tayssti: that doesn’t mean anything. They can still release the pent up Kinetic energy at any time, and once that happens Steve is helpless and gets gutted by claws. Killmonger was tanking Shuris blasters easily, and repeated blows from the Dora warriors and then blasted them back. Steve’s hits will only make the suit stronger

@jashro44: Hmm IMO I think the energy release can be useful for certain things but normal human Wakandan foot soldiers and the Dora Milaje (peak human) took point blank blasts with the energy of an air ship crash and were back up fighting shortly after.

They got sent flying meters away and the dora milaje took a second to get back up but that's about it.

Cap and Spidey can definitely tank blasts like that. They both have way higher blunt force durability feats then those soldiers.

Not to mention Cap has the perfect weapon and skills to counter the energy blast back at Killmonger. Caps already shown he has the skill to out maneuver BP in civil war. In their Civil War encounter BP had much loser morals and was trying to shred Cap up while Cap was trying to buy time. He made BP hit air or the shield basically the whole encounter.

@georgewbush: Refer to my post above. I think Steve can handle the kinetic energy just fine, if he gets hit with it. He was out maneuvering BP pretty easily in CW and The shield is the perfect weapon to counter any strike with the kinetic energy release behind it.

Steve and Spidey would get blown back from the kinetic energy blasts and still take damage (Wakandan border tribe soldiers had tons of energy shields and those got blown away effortlessly). T’Challa has released kinetic energy blasts strong enough to crush and flip SUVs, that’s going to damage them- especially with energy absorbed from their damage output. BP casually tanked a shot to the chest from Klaw’s sonic weapon that tore a speeding Vibranium car to pieces (and I’m not talking about the one from the commercial, the other car literally rips apart into chunks).

The Dora Milaje and Wakandan border tribe soldiers were able to get up somewhat easy from kinetic energy blasts because they’re all wearing Vibranium-laced armor.

Team

@tayssti:

Hmm IMO I think the energy release can be useful for certain things but normal human Wakandan foot soldiers and the Dora Milaje (peak human) took point blank blasts with the energy of an air ship crash and were back up fighting shortly after.

They got sent flying meters away and the dora milaje took a second to get back up but that's about it.

I can't remember them getting back up and fighting but we've also seen the kinetic blasts destroy a car. Besides while I am sure cap can take the blasts and wont get one shotted Killmonger can use them multiple times. Not to mention cap hits way harder than the wakandan soldiers. You have to keep in mind the suit dishes back the power it absorbs. So Killmonger will be hitting him with the sum total of the hits Steve hits Killmonger with. So Steve hitting with more force than the Wakandan soldiers could be his down fall potentially.

Even if they do take the blast Killmonger is incredibly ruthless and relentless. After he impaled T'challa he was kicking him repeatedly and beating him down. If it knocks cap over it will leave him exposed for Killmonger to impale him.

Cap and Spidey can definitely tank blasts like that. They both have way higher blunt force durability feats then those soldiers.

Not to mention Cap has the perfect weapon and skills to counter the energy blast back at Killmonger. Caps already shown he has the skill to out maneuver BP in civil war. In their Civil War encounter BP had much loser morals and was trying to shred Cap up while Cap was trying to buy time. He made BP hit air or the shield basically the whole encounter.

Well to be fair I think we can agree that Killmonger and T'challa are on a similar tier of skill as cap. There fight was far from conclusive and they both landed a hit on each other. Regardless my main argument is Killmonger's tech is his real advantage. We have talked about black panther vs cap before and I know you think cap has a slight edge over T'challa, personally I disagree. But I think we can agree there close.

The major difference I feel is that Killmonger has an area of effect attack that Steve can't avoid. He also seems capable of amping his strikes with his kinetic blasts.

@tayssti: Also regarding the kinetic blasts they did damage T'challa when Shuri made T'challa kick the suit twice and recorded T'challa getting sent flying. So there is also that.

Also @imagein brought up a decent point about the Wakandains having vibranium woven into there clothes. So that may have helped them tank the kinetic blasts.

@imagein

Steve and Spidey would get blown back from the kinetic energy blasts and still take damage (Wakandan border tribe soldiers had tons of energy shields and those got blown away effortlessly)

IIRC They had their energy shields pointed the other way. BP jumped over them and then released the energy with their shiled pointing the other direction.

I agree Cap and Spidey would get blown back and take a little bit of damage but IMO would recover fine.

T’Challa has released kinetic energy blasts strong enough to crush and flip SUVs, that’s going to damage them- especially with energy absorbed from their damage output.

That was a direct shot with BP touching the the object he was releasing the energy on. BP was having a really hard time landing on Cap at all in Civil War with context in his favor. IMO Killmonger would have just as hard of a time AND even harder seeing as how Cap is bloodlusted in this thread. I agree that a shot like that would do more damage to Cap or Spidey some but IMO it wouldn't take them out. We have no idea how much kenetic energy was built up in the suit from all the gun fire vs how many hits Cap and Spidey would have to land to equal it.

Who says Cap even has to hit him? Cap can just out maneuver Killmonger until Spidey webs him up and they take him out.

BP casually tanked a shot to the chest from Klaw’s sonic weapon that tore a speeding Vibranium car to pieces (and I’m not talking about the one from the commercial, the other car literally rips apart into chunks).

Klaws sonic weapon was shown to be adjustable and have varying output power. He used while stealing the Vibranium artifact at a low setting and said it was just a taste. There is nothing to prove that the shot BP took had the same power output as the one that hit the car.

The Dora Milaje and Wakandan border tribe soldiers were able to get up somewhat easy from kinetic energy blasts because they’re all wearing Vibranium-laced armor.

True. But what Cap and Spidey dont have in vibranium clothing they make up for with Superhuman blunt force durability. ( Cap also has the shield to counter the effects)

@tayssti:

Killmonger,

I see no way for Cap or Peter to hurt KM.

@thebeardofzues: Klaws sonic arm was shown to have varying power output while Klaw was stealing the vibranium artifact . There is nothing proving that the shot that destroyed the car was of the same level as the one that hit BP.

Killmonger and BP were making audible grunts of pain with strikes from one another as they were falling. Strikes from Cap ( + shield strikes) and Spidey will do some damage but they dont need to damage him a lot win. OP doesn't state they have to win by death.

While Cap takes on Killmonger Spidey webs him up and incapacitate him to the point where he cant do anything.

@tayssti:

He used his canon 3 times, and not once did it mention or show a fluctuation in power though.

@thebeardofzues: You may be right. Although what i got from the vibranium artifact scene was that the sonic power output of the arm can vary. I am going to watch the movie again tonight. Even if that is true it doesn't change how i see this fight. Cap and Spidey still win via incap IMO.

I can't remember them getting back up and fighting but we've also seen the kinetic blasts destroy a car.

Yeah, no ones was seriously injured from the kenetic releases. They were all back up fighting eventually, with the Dora Milaje recovering quicker.

Besides while I am sure cap can take the blasts and wont get one shotted Killmonger can use them multiple times. Not to mention cap hits way harder than the wakandan soldiers. You have to keep in mind the suit dishes back the power it absorbs. So Killmonger will be hitting him with the sum total of the hits Steve hits Killmonger with. So Steve hitting with more force than the Wakandan soldiers could be his down fall potentially.

True. I think Killmonger is going to have a hard time landing a strike on Cap though and the times he does wont be any where near frequent enough.

Well to be fair I think we can agree that Killmonger and T'challa are on a similar tier of skill as cap.

Yeah. Although IMO Cap has shown better technical skill feats over all between the 3.

There fight was far from conclusive and they both landed a hit on each other.

Cap was still out maneuvering his stikes easily while context was in BP's favor.

Regardless my main argument is Killmonger's tech is his real advantage. We have talked about black panther vs cap before and I know you think cap has a slight edge over T'challa, personally I disagree. But I think we can agree there close.

Agreed.

The major difference I feel is that Killmonger has an area of effect attack that Steve can't avoid. He also seems capable of amping his strikes with his kinetic blasts:

I think the kenetic energy release ability definitely gives Killmonger the edge although it can likely backfire on Killmonger if its in his strikes. Cap can send the energy right back at him. The shield can also heavily dampen the kenetic release that hits Cap if he uses it as a pulse from a few feet away. It might hit Cap once or twice but I think Cap has shown to be tactical and strategic enough to realize that If he keep hitting Killmonger it will charge up the kenetic ability.

With the kenetic energy absorbtion and release ability I doubt Cap wins 1v1 at this point because it works against him ( might change after infinity war and Caps new gear), but I do think Cap can stalemate him by being able to avoid or block almost all Killmonger's equal's (BP) strikes while also having to deal WM intermittently. Cap can stay on the defensive and not charge up the suit. Cap has the skill and weapon to do it.

I remember him being sent flying but dont remember him being damaged.

I agree that helped them but Cap and Spidey massively higher durability would more then make up for that IMO.

If victory is achieved by KO or Death, then Killmonger surely can't lose in the suit. On the other hand it's more than likely that the team could manage to incapacitate him; and as the OP doesn't specify i'd give it to the team.

@tayssti:

True. I think Killmonger is going to have a hard time landing a strike on Cap though.

I don't think its going to be that hard. T'challa actually did land his hit on Steve first during there fight. Cap did dodge his strikes however that is because of a difference in fighting styles. The Russos said they wanted to make T'challa's fighting style aggressive in civil war. I interpret that scene as T'challa pressuring cap.

Yeah. Although IMO Cap has shown better technical skill feats over all between all 3.

Not sure I agree. He might have the best choreography however T'challa was able to beat M'baku while depowered. I think this is actually a pretty great feat for T'challa even if he did struggle. He's been black panther for 8-10 years by the point of black panther so he is use to fighting with his enhancements. We also know that the heart shaped herb gives the user super human instincts as well, so it may actually increase the users fighting ability.

M'baku may not have a ton of feats but he was pretty strong for an unenhanced human. And he is skilled enough to beat up fodder at least.

Cap was still out maneuvering his stikes easily while context was in BP's favor.

The way I look at the fight was black panther was pressuring cap.

I think the kenetic energy release ability definitely gives Killmonger the edge although it can likely backfire on Killmonger if its in his strikes. Cap can send the energy right back at him. It might hit Cap once or twice but I think Cap has shown to be tactical and strategic enough to realize that If he keep hiting Killmonger it will charge up the kenetic ability.

Well I'm not sure what cap can do to beat Killmonger if he doesn't hit him. That would severely limit Steve's options in a fight.

With the kenetic release ability I doubt Cap wins 1v1 at this point ( might change after infinity war and Caps new gear), but I do think Cap can stalemate him by being able to avoid or block almost all Killmonger's equal's (BP) strikes while also having to deal WM intermittently. Cap can stay on the defensive and not charge up the suit. Cap has the skill and weapon to do it.

Cap isn't that hard to tag. He can't avoid Killmonger forever especially with area of effect attacks. If Cap gets new gear in infinity war than that could change the fight but right now I don't see a way for cap to counter Killmonger or T'challa's kinetic blasts.

I remember him being sent flying but dont remember him being damaged.

I agree that helped them but Cap and Spidey massively higher durability would more then make up for that IMO.

He didn't have broken bones or anything but he didn't no sell it. He basically got hit with the force equivalent to his first kick.

@jashro44:

I don't think its going to be that hard. T'challa actually did land his hit on Steve first during there fight. Cap did dodge his strikes however that is because of a difference in fighting styles. The Russos said they wanted to make T'challa's fighting style aggressive in civil war. I interpret that scene as T'challa pressuring cap.

He landed his hit on Steve first because he was more of the aggressor, I agree.

I interpret that scene as Steve having better defensive skills VS BP's offensive skills + context in BPs favor (loser morals, Caps focus not solely on BP)

Not sure I agree. He might have the best choreography however T'challa was able to beat M'baku while depowered. I think this is actually a pretty great feat for T'challa even if he did struggle. He's been black panther for 8-10 years by the point of black panther so he is use to fighting with his enhancements. We also know that the heart shaped herb gives the user super human instincts as well, so it may actually increase the users fighting ability.

He beat M'baku because of weapons. Dont think he would have won with only H2H skill while depowered. M'baku had the upper hand half the fight.

Honestly IMO while in the suit BP's skill consists of a lot of wide slashing most of the time. Its easy to read. Cap has shown much broader use of technical skills h2h.

The way I look at the fight was black panther was pressuring cap.

Definitely. BP had much loser morals and was trying slash Cap up but couldn't because BP was getting out maneuvered while Cap wasn't solely focused on BP. He was also just trying to buy time and keep BP and WM occupied so Sam and Buck could get to the quinjet.

Well I'm not sure what cap can do to beat Killmonger if he doesn't hit him. That would severely limit Steve's options in a fight.

He could potentially incap by a lock or choke but I agree. Im saying Cap can stalemate him.

Cap isn't that hard to tag. He can't avoid Killmonger forever especially with area of effect attacks. If Cap gets new gear in infinity war than that could change the fight but right now I don't see a way for cap to counter Killmonger or T'challa's kinetic blasts.

He sure gave BP a hard time tagging him. Those Slashes are super telegraphed and Cap showed that. IMO he can avoid him for long enough that the hits Killmonger does land wont be frequent enough to matter. He counters Killmonger by being the more skilled fighter (especially defensively) and having the perfect weapon to counter with. If Cap does get caught by a few kenetic pulses he would probably realize his best chance to attack is to attack offensively with only the shield. He is aware of vibraniums properties. That way if Killmonger uses the kenetic energy built up when the shield makes contact on the suit it should be absorbed by the shield or sent back at him.

He didn't have broken bones or anything but he didn't no sell it. He basically got hit with the force equivalent to his first kick.

He also was completely unaware that kenetic energy was going to come back at him. If he had known he probably would have been able to handle it much better, unless your saying BP cant take the power of a kick on his own tier of strength.

@georgewbush: actually he had to to destroy her blasters because they were hurting him and where by passing the armors abilities. She created his armor why would she feed him kinetic energy to use against her.

@tayssti:

He landed his hit on Steve first because he was more of the aggressor, I agree.

I interpret that scene as Steve having better defensive skills VS BP's offensive skills + context in BPs favor (loser morals, Caps focus not solely on BP)

War machine and black panther never attacked in tangent. Honestly war machine never seemed all that relevant to the fight and added very little.

He beat M'baku because of weapons. Dont think he would have won with only H2H skill while depowered. M'baku had the upper hand half the fight.

M'baku disarmed black panther IIRC, T'challa pinned him in a hold. M'baku had the upper hand at first but it doesn't matter much since T'challa still won the fight in the end.

Honestly IMO while in the suit BP's skill consists of a lot of wide slashing most of the time. Its easy to read. Cap has shown much broader use of technical skills h2h.

I don't think that is the intention of the Russo's. If Black Panthers blows were easily telegraphed he wouldn't be that skilled. Likewise I recall Chadwick Boseman mentioning that T'challa is suppose to have an unpredictable fighting style. This is why I think people put way too much focus on choreography IMO.

Definitely. BP had much loser morals and was trying slash Cap up but couldn't because BP was getting out maneuvered while Cap wasn't solely focused on BP. He was also just trying to buy time and keep BP and WM occupied so Sam and Buck could get to the quinjet.

I don't think cap was just trying to buy time. There is a lot from that fight that got cut (I'm guessing because marvel got the rights to spider-man).

He could potentially incap by a lock or choke but I agree. Im saying Cap can stalemate him.

I mean I don't think cap is so much better than Killmonger that he can just dance around him all day and Killmonger wont touch him. Do you agree with that? If so I think Killmonger will win sooner or later. Cap isn't perfect. He will make a mistake eventually which Killmonger can capitalize on.

He sure gave BP a hard time tagging him. Those Slashes are super telegraphed and Cap showed that.

I just don't see it that way. It didn't look like cap could have hit T'challa if he wanted to. Otherwise he probably would have. Besides Killmonger has longer reach with his weapons than T'challa does....

IMO he can avoid him for long enough that the hits Killmonger does land wont be frequent enough to matter.

He technically only needs one hit.

He counters Killmonger by being the more skilled fighter (especially defensively) and having the perfect weapon to counter with. If Cap does get caught by a few kenetic pulses he would probably realize his best chance to attack is to attack offensively with only the shield. He is aware of vibraniums properties. That way if Killmonger uses the kenetic energy built up when the shield makes contact on the suit it should be absorbed by the shield or sent back at him.

I mean cap doesn't always deflect energy attacks. Even than he's never tried that with a huge attack like this:

Those guys also had energy shields up....

Killmonger.

Again I want to restate I think the team wins. Spider-man can web killmonger up which is an easy way to incap him without powering his suit. Steve can also distract him.

So we have this thread, and another thread puts km against Nolan Batman?

Erik gets the win here.

War machine and black panther never attacked in tangent. Honestly war machine never seemed all that relevant to the fight and added very little.

That may be true but Cap still was not able to completely focus on BP with the presence of WM there.

M'baku disarmed black panther IIRC, T'challa pinned him in a hold. M'baku had the upper hand at first but it doesn't matter much since T'challa still won the fight in the end.

I need rewatch this fight to comment further. I do remember BP winning by a hold in the end. M'baku didnt come off all the skilled though IIRC. I remember feeling BP should have made quicker work of him regardless of the physical advantage with the skill he is said to have.

I don't think that is the intention of the Russo's. If Black Panthers blows were easily telegraphed he wouldn't be that skilled. Likewise I recall Chadwick Boseman mentioning that T'challa is suppose to have an unpredictable fighting style. This is why I think people put way too much focus on choreography IMO.

Regardless of what you think was intended thats not what I see when shown that scene. You already know where i stand on this from past talks. BP was really trying to slash up Cap but couldn't land any of those hits. The Russos could have easily shown BP actually slashing Caps suit or getting close. Instead I see Cap easily out maneuvering him with context against him.

I don't think cap was just trying to buy time. There is a lot from that fight that got cut (I'm guessing because marvel got the rights to spider-man).

On that same token there could have been times when Cap was fighting both WM and BP at the simultaneously but it was cut out. It would make sense with both of them engaging Cap and trying to detain him.

I mean I don't think cap is so much better than Killmonger that he can just dance around him all day and Killmonger wont touch him. Do you agree with that? If so I think Killmonger will win sooner or later. Cap isn't perfect. He will make a mistake eventually which Killmonger can capitalize on.

I don't think Killmonger wont touch him, But I do think that the times he does will not be frequent enough to do enough damage and wont be from those slashing claw strikes thanks to his skill and shield. I'm not saying Cap can stalemate him every time but I do think his chance of stalemating with Killmonger are high.

I just don't see it that way. It didn't look like cap could have hit T'challa if he wanted to. Otherwise he probably would have.

Yeah I know we don't see eye to eye on this from past talks. Agree to disagree.

Besides Killmonger has longer reach with his weapons than T'challa does....He technically only needs one hit.

I don't see those slashing style swipes tagging Cap, as shown in Civil War. I honestly forgot about the weapon he has in this thread. That doesnt help Cap haha

I mean cap doesn't always deflect energy attacks. Even than he's never tried that with a huge attack like this:

I don't think a blast of that magnitude would ever be used by Killmonger if he was fighting Cap solo. That was the kenetic energy of an air ship crash plus explosion. I think Killmonger would probably end up using a blast way before it ever reach that charge level. That would take a lot of hits from Cap to reach that level of kenetic energy and Cap tactical and strategic enough to figure out that hes going to have to fight very defensively in order to stalemate him and not give him energy to do that.

Those guys also had energy shields up....

Yeah i miss remembered that. Thought the shields were pointed the other way.

Team. Even if they don't web him he's getting pinned down if he takes them both in CQC. Killmonger could break free with the AoE blast but then Cap would realize to just not hit him. Also Cap would recognize the suit and might just tell Peter to web him at the start.

Team stomps. They can just overpower - restrain him.

Yeah

I think I'll back the team. I don't think its a mismatch though.

Killmonger

@tayssti: I think a lot of this stuff is stuff that we aren't going to convince each other on and we've discussed before or stuff that we would have to rewatch. And the impression I get from you is that you do think Killmonger wins a majority with the suit right? I initially responded to you because I thought you were saying the fight was 50/50. My bad if you think Killmonger wins a majority.

I don't think a blast of that magnitude would ever be used by Killmonger if he was fighting Cap solo. That was the kenetic energy of an air ship crash plus explosion. I think Killmonger would probably end up using a blast way before it ever reach that charge level. That would take a lot of hits from Cap to reach that level of kenetic energy and Cap tactical and strategic enough to figure out that hes going to have to fight very defensively in order to stalemate him and not give him energy to do that.

Admittedly I forgot about that. All though if the vibranium suit can tank an exploding air ship I don't think Cap can put him down. Regardless even if the blast just stuns him that would be enough to create an opening.

Team.

Cap adapts to different fighting styles and techniques. He also is a master strategist. Once he realises what the Golden Jaguar suit can do, he will come up with a style that feeds less energy to the suit and uses spiderman's abilities for advantage. Lets not forget how good Cap's durability is. I mean fighting Ultron and Stark. Taking repulsors repeatedly to the chest. Killmonger is more like WS mode Bucky. He is ruthless and goes all out every time he fights.

I agree that in Cap vs Killmonger in full gear, Erik takes majority for now. Not that Erik is more skilled than Cap but BP without the suit's new energy absorption powers was able to sort of match Cap for a while. Killmonger is a more ruthless version of BP with new powers in the suit. But with Spiderman this is a decisive victory for the team IMO. Just a matter of time until Cap comes up with a solid strategy.