Black Widow. Echo is pretty good though and dominated Clint h2h. But as soon as Clint got his bow he incapacitated her in five seconds whereas he couldn't beat Natasha even with his bow.
While I like the way the Hawkeye show showcased Echo's photographic reflexes compared to how the Black Widow movie did with Taskmaster, Black Widow wins this.
More skilled, better stats and more agile.
She already fought and defeated Taskmaster who's more skilled and dangerous than Echo and also has photographic reflexes (she possibly defeated Taskmaster by switching up her fighting style).
Why is it PIS? Echos only showing is vs Hawkeye(she has no antifeats) and she has taskmaster style photographic reflexes..she is supposed to be very skilled.
While I like the way the Hawkeye show showcased Echo's photographic reflexes compared to how the Black Widow movie did with Taskmaster,
When did they showcase her photographic reflexes?
There was a scene where she was learning from watching her teacher(they were surprised she didn’t need a translator).. then in the karate scene they show her focus on on the moves the other kids are using, then she replicated the move she just saw. She duu it d the move she just saw against a physically superior karate kid while she had one leg.. I think the way she focused on the moves then replicated them is showing move reading, and even with one leg she’s kinda established as a karate prodigy.
@chicago_bastard: There was also a scene where she was in a boxing ring fighting some guy and then she looked at his hand as if she knew he was going to throw a punch, then he tried to throw a punch at her and she countered his attack.
While I like the way the Hawkeye show showcased Echo's photographic reflexes compared to how the Black Widow movie did with Taskmaster, Black Widow wins this.
More skilled, better stats and more agile.
She already fought and defeated Taskmaster who's more skilled and dangerous than Echo and also has photographic reflexes (she possibly defeated Taskmaster by switching up her fighting style).
I mean TM barely has any feats besides bullying a fat unskilled Russian but yeah she wins. Before I remember you saying TM was better than Nat tho.
Yeah honestly everyone stomps Echo in H2H. She’s practically featless. They just gotta be careful of her insane stats with her metal leg.
Struggling against Clint doesn't put Echo anywhere remotely on par with the most skilled female fighter in the MCU
Dude what are you smoking? Nat doesn’t crack top 5 after Shang Chi lmaooo.
It seems like your still salty about that.
Doesn't crack top 5? Xialing, Nan, and Shang's mother. That would make Nat fourth, assuming you don't put her above Xialing which I'm pretty sure you don't. I might be forgetting one tho.
Taskmaster also defeated and completely outskilled Black Widow on the bridge in Norway. Clearly Black Widow >>>>> Red Guardian. Taskmaster doesn't only scale to Red Guardian.
In their second fight, the intent seemed to be that Natasha managed to gain the upper hand on Taskmaster by switching up her fighting style as it was stated that when Natasha experienced Taskmaster's fighting style, she was at a loss and that we were gonna see her fight where her old tricks will no longer work. And the fight was short because if it went for too long, Taskmaster would have adapted. However, it was poorly executed.
Struggling against Clint doesn't put Echo anywhere remotely on par with the most skilled female fighter in the MCU
Dude what are you smoking? Nat doesn’t crack top 5 after Shang Chi lmaooo.
It seems like your still salty about that.
Doesn't crack top 5? Xialing, Nan, and Shang's mother. That would make Nat fourth, assuming you don't put her above Xialing which I'm pretty sure you don't. I might be forgetting one tho.
She’s not fourth lmaooo. Xialing and Death-dealer are both over her. T’Challa and Steve are above her as well.
Taskmaster also defeated and completely outskilled Black Widow on the bridge in Norway. Clearly Black Widow >>>>> Red Guardian. Taskmaster doesn't only scale to Red Guardian.
Yes but TM is borderline featless outside of that fight. Scaling from TM is circular scaling and it doesn’t really do much.
In their second fight, the intent seemed to be that Natasha managed to gain the upper hand on Taskmaster by switching up her fighting style as it was stated that when Natasha experienced Taskmaster's fighting style, she was at a loss and that we were gonna see her fight where her old tricks will no longer work. And the fight was short because if it went for too long, Taskmaster would have adapted. However, it was poorly executed.
Struggling against Clint doesn't put Echo anywhere remotely on par with the most skilled female fighter in the MCU
Dude what are you smoking? Nat doesn’t crack top 5 after Shang Chi lmaooo.
It seems like your still salty about that.
Doesn't crack top 5? Xialing, Nan, and Shang's mother. That would make Nat fourth, assuming you don't put her above Xialing which I'm pretty sure you don't. I might be forgetting one tho.
She’s not fourth lmaooo. Xialing and Death-dealer are both over her. T’Challa and Steve are above her as well.
She would be 4th top female though? Death Dealer, Steve etc are males.
Struggling against Clint doesn't put Echo anywhere remotely on par with the most skilled female fighter in the MCU
Dude what are you smoking? Nat doesn’t crack top 5 after Shang Chi lmaooo.
It seems like your still salty about that.
Doesn't crack top 5? Xialing, Nan, and Shang's mother. That would make Nat fourth, assuming you don't put her above Xialing which I'm pretty sure you don't. I might be forgetting one tho.
She’s not fourth lmaooo. Xialing and Death-dealer are both over her. T’Challa and Steve are above her as well.
Death Dealer, Cap, and Kitty are all males. We were discussing top five females from the very beginning of this thread.
Struggling against Clint doesn't put Echo anywhere remotely on par with the most skilled female fighter in the MCU
Dude what are you smoking? Nat doesn’t crack top 5 after Shang Chi lmaooo.
It seems like your still salty about that.
Doesn't crack top 5? Xialing, Nan, and Shang's mother. That would make Nat fourth, assuming you don't put her above Xialing which I'm pretty sure you don't. I might be forgetting one tho.
She’s not fourth lmaooo. Xialing and Death-dealer are both over her. T’Challa and Steve are above her as well.
She would be 4th top female though? Death Dealer, Steve etc are males.
Struggling against Clint doesn't put Echo anywhere remotely on par with the most skilled female fighter in the MCU
Dude what are you smoking? Nat doesn’t crack top 5 after Shang Chi lmaooo.
It seems like your still salty about that.
Doesn't crack top 5? Xialing, Nan, and Shang's mother. That would make Nat fourth, assuming you don't put her above Xialing which I'm pretty sure you don't. I might be forgetting one tho.
She’s not fourth lmaooo. Xialing and Death-dealer are both over her. T’Challa and Steve are above her as well.
Death Dealer, Cap, and Kitty are all males. We were discussing top five females from the very beginning of this thread.
Ohh my bad missed that lol. Anyways yeah she might be 4th if you take out all the males.
@frozen: Yes because there should be no reason an Avenger and someone who managed to get BP in a chokehold, would lose to a fat man with no powers or noteworthy skill without PIS.
Unless this version Kingpin ends up actually being impressive
@frozen: Yes because there should be no reason an Avenger and someone who managed to get BP in a chokehold, would lose to a fat man with no powers or noteworthy skill without PIS.
Unless this version Kingpin ends up actually being impressive
If he beats Clint, then he is by extension impressive. He doesn't need to perform a bunch of feats prior to the showing to solidify it. The scaling would speak for itself.
Kingpin having no powers is irrelevant too. He was an antagonist for Daredevil and Netflix Matt would beat the brakes off of Clint in a CQC fight - despite the fact that his stories aren't as outlandish as Clint's. Fisk doesn't have any powers in the comics either. He is just uncharacteristically strong, which I presume will be the case here.
I can't really see this hypothetical being PIS - especially since the show's narrative is building/hyping him as an antagonist.
Widow beat full gear prime Hawkeye while he was morals off, she was also holding back, and this was after she was slapped by THE HULK. Widow stomps no question
Struggling against Clint doesn't put Echo anywhere remotely on par with the most skilled female fighter in the MCU
Dude what are you smoking? Nat doesn’t crack top 5 after Shang Chi lmaooo.
It seems like your still salty about that.
Doesn't crack top 5? Xialing, Nan, and Shang's mother. That would make Nat fourth, assuming you don't put her above Xialing which I'm pretty sure you don't. I might be forgetting one tho.
She’s not fourth lmaooo. Xialing and Death-dealer are both over her. T’Challa and Steve are above her as well.
Debatable i've always seen nat as above the ss's due to them having stats to fall back on but her having only skill and agility alone.
Black widow wins this echo beat hawkeye bc he SUCKS if he dosent have some kind of weapon in his hand when he does then he's a legitimate threat She isn,t beating Black widow due to inferior skill agility and speed from what she's shown so far
Every single SHIELD agent is supposed to have been forged into one of the most formidable operatives in the world through elite training, and Hawkeye was pretty much at the top, but someone who just learned a standard martial art alongside your everyday rubes in a public facility can thrash him. But after Shang-Chi being the ultra ninja warrior at age 14, neglecting those skills for 10 years but still competing with everybody, I cannot be further disappointed by the in-universe logic -- or, lack thereof.
Every single SHIELD agent is supposed to have been forged into one of the most formidable operatives in the world through elite training, and Hawkeye was pretty much at the top, but someone who just learned a standard martial art alongside your everyday rubes in a public facility can thrash him. But after Shang-Chi being the ultra ninja warrior at age 14, neglecting those skills for 10 years but still competing with everybody, I cannot be further disappointed by the in-universe logic -- or, lack thereof.
Don't forget that Shang-Chi's sister apparently became almost as good by just watching others train and teach it to herself without ever having an opponent to actually apply the moves on^^
@chicago_bastard: Shang's sister isn't on his level. If you're going to criticize the logic of Shang Chi, I can assure you there is plenty to criticize of the Black Widow solo film. Aside from it being a far inferior film, its internal logic is also dumb.
@chicago_bastard: Shang's sister isn't on his level. If you're going to criticize the logic of Shang Chi, I can assure you there is plenty to criticize of the Black Widow solo film. Aside from it being a far inferior film, its internal logic is also dumb.
@chicago_bastard: Shang's sister isn't on his level. If you're going to criticize the logic of Shang Chi, I can assure you there is plenty to criticize of the Black Widow solo film. Aside from it being a far inferior film, its internal logic is also dumb.
Looks like someone is salty.
Given that you only ever comment on Shang Chi to either criticize it or mock it, I'd have to say that's actually the case for you. Case in point post 131.
It was pretty obvious prior to Shang Chi's release that he would end up as the most skilled fighter in the MCU, so the cope is rather confusing.
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