MCU Echo runs a H2H gauntlet (READ OP)

• Everybody is unarmed unless scpecified.
• Maya gets to fully heal before each round.
• Everybody gets standard knowledge one eachother.
• Anybody with superhuman stats will get their stats equalized to Maya's (it will be specified).
• Win by Ko, incapacitation or death.

Each fight takes place in an empty warehouse (they start 30 feet apart).

Gauntlet:

Stops at four gets wrecked at 5

Stops at Sam.

And no Nat isn't >Steve+TChalla in skill.

@enzvi: Take away their stats and yeah she is.

No, she isn't Steve and TChalla both have vastly superior feats

@enzvi: "Vastly superior feats" They don't. They're all near eachother's level.

Steve basically went up against Taskmaster but better in Iron Man. He held his own against a skilled fighter and another with vastly superior stats at the same time, tagged Thanos without Miljnor, and beat Peter who beat Bucky and Falcon at the same time meanwhile Widow couldn't even handle Bucky despite being armed and ambushing him.

Nat has nothing close to this.

Widow is on the low end of fighters in the MCU, maybe Frank Castle would be a good fight but Steve is off-limits.

@enzvi:

Wrong. Steve got dragged by Tony as soon as he used his fight pattern analyzing ai. Plus he was tag teaming Tony with Bucky most of the fight anyway before Tony used his ai.

Thanos was beating around a trio consisting of Steve, Thor and Tony and treating Steve like nothing more than an annoyance until he got Mjiolnir. Give Widow lightning powers and Thor-level stats and I'd argue she'd be able to replicate his short performance against Thanos.

Steve beating Peter who managed to stomp both Sam and Bucky combined just proves how much of an outlier that fight was. Bucky alone has given Steve tough fights and you think now it's consistent for Steve to be capable of beating someone who stomps both Bucky and Sam. Anyway, Peter isn't even notably skilled.

Widow nearly killed Bucky or at the very least would have gravely injured him in a shootout and then was left with nothing but a garotte. Don't know what you want her to do with a cable against a supersoldier who's armed with a riffle plus has a backup team ready to attack too.

Nat has nothing close to this.

Widow is on the low end of fighters in the MCU, maybe Frank Castle would be a good fight but Steve is off-limits.

Funny but that's just really bad lowballing, saying that she's on the LOW END of the MCU's fighters?!

Probably stops at Ayo, if not definitely stops at Okoye

@ashconwell:

Wrong. Steve got dragged by Tony as soon as he used his fight pattern analyzing ai. Plus he was tag teaming Tony with Bucky most of the fight anyway before Tony used his ai.

He fought Tony by himself for a while. Iron Man's AI deemed that it was impossible to beat Cap in hand to hand and ended up using repulsors. That trumps beating Taskmaster in all metrics

Thanos was beating around a trio consisting of Steve, Thor, and Tony and treating Steve like nothing more than an annoyance until he got Mjiolnir.

Yes, Obviously he lost to Thanos but he still landed hits BEFORE the Hammer, Widow can't even dream of outskilling an opponent of that caliber.

Steve beating Peter who managed to stomp both Sam and Bucky combined just proves how much of an outlier that fight was. Bucky alone has given Steve tough fights

He gave him tough fights when he was loaded with guns, RPGs, and grenades Steve stomped him in raw h2h. None of these feats are outliers

Anyway, Peter isn't even notably skilled.

His strength, speed, enhanced senses, and agility, are what makes this so impressive and he even did it while holding back.

Widow nearly killed Bucky or at the very least would have gravely injured him in a shootout and then was left with nothing but a garotte.

Nothing to do with H2H skills. Every time she engaged him in H2H she got stomped in less than 5 seconds and under conditions that favored her

Funny but that's just really bad lowballing, saying that she's on the LOW END of the MCU's fighters?!

How is that lowballing?

Steve is very clearly much more skilled and has the feats to back it up

@enzvi:

He fought Tony by himself for a while. Iron Man's AI deemed that it was impossible to beat Cap in hand to hand and ended up using repulsors. That trumps beating Taskmaster in all metrics

Yeah, the AI deemed it was impossible for Tony to beat him in H2H because Tony himself is trash in H2H. He wasn't using the AI's fighting pattern adapting abilities when Steve was beating him up. As soon as he activated it, he literally beat Steve with the repulsors just like you said. Have you seen the scene?

Yes, Obviously he lost to Thanos but he still landed hits BEFORE the Hammer, Widow can't even dream of outskilling an opponent of that caliber.

The only hits he landed before using the hammer was one kick. Other than that he just got continuously pushed away by Thanos. And Thanos was still fighting both Thor and Tony too which you seem to ignore. Also, simply landing a hit on an opponent does not = outskilling. If you end up landing the most hits compared to your opponent then yes it can be outskilling, but before taking the hammer Steve didn't land the most hits, he landed ONE.

He gave him tough fights when he was loaded with guns, RPGs, and grenades Steve stomped him in raw h2h. None of these feats are outliers

No, Bucky legit handled his own against Steve in H2H. Steve has never and would never be able to stomp Bucky (combined with Sam who was using his wings) just like Peter did. It's an absolute outlier.

His strength, speed, enhanced senses, and agility, are what makes this so impressive and he even did it while holding back.

Yeah, still not notably skilled. And still an outlier. I mean, Steve essentially overpowerd Peter in that fight.

Nothing to do with H2H skills.

And? You said she wasn't able to handle Bucky despite being ARMED. I proved that she did when she was ARMED. That's what I'm referencing.

Every time she engaged him in H2H she got stomped in less than 5 seconds and under conditions that favored her

Probably because the first time wasn't even a H2H fight, and the second time (when it was a H2H fight) she was unarmed and used a tactic that gave Bucky the advantage.

How is that lowballing?

Steve is very clearly much more skilled and has the feats to back it up

You literally said Natasha is in the low end of the MCU's H2H fighters. That's absolutely awful lowballing.

@ashconwell: How do you rate Steve and Nat in skill? Do you have them close?

@nassergrant19: Yes.

Bump.

Bump.

5-7

Clears

First off I'm going to assume pure melee combat, with no power ups.

I think it's safe to assume she is below Hawkeye and Daredevil. Given what we've seen on screen. Similarly she is above Kate. Given pretty obvious scaling this also means she isn't beating Black Widow and while she seemed to briefly hold her own against Yelena. Given the difference in the way each performed against Kate and Clint/Natasha, my guess is Yelena would win.

Stats equalized is basically impossible to tell. As we don't know how her opponents would fight under those circumstances. If this question is who is more skilled, we may be able to have that conversation, but it is a subtly different question.

I haven't watched all of Moon Knight, so I can't discuss Marc.

Moving on Sharon Carter, Wasp, and U.S Agent. Have not done enough to suggest they can take Echo. Though if some one wanted to make an argument for them. I'd listen.

Side note, de-powered T'Challa would probably also fall into this category.

Sam Wilson is in a weird middle ground as the first opponent that has a shot at winning an even split with Echo. The biggest problem is that his show is wildly inconsistent in terms of who can do what.

Ayo, falls into the same category as Sam. Including the same consistency issue in scaling from fights in Falcon and The Winter Soldier.

If we assume non-armored Crossbones is as good armored. He's gonna be in the ballpark of Natasha and should be at Maya, but it's hard to tell what was upgraded by his suit.

I can't see Lopez beating Okoye or Batroc.

Stops at either Hawkeye or Yelena