Mcu Dr. Strange vs 616 Spider-Man

Both are blood lusted

Blood lusted? Peter speedblitzes him before he can react. Strange has the power advantage, but it takes him a hot second to wave his hands around.

Either Spidey blitzes or Strange BFR's.

@eredin12: it's PIS. He didn't have a shield or anything

Sorcerers get knocked out by things that mcu Spider-Man would easily tank. not to mention they have no feats comparable to getting hit by a bullet train or taking multiple hits to the face from shocker.

scaling strange to a feat performed by another character in a movie that was released after IW is all kinds of disingenuous

@eredin12: The first example is not Strange but Wong, Strange is much more powerful by feats

Your claim was wizards in general, not only strange.

The second example is wrong, he was kncoekd out by Thanos throw, that is not anti feat, Spiderman was knocked out by that as well, Thanos is ridiculously strong

Thanos threw him at subsonic speeds and all he did was roll a couple times. theres no reason to think he threw him like faora did Superman or something. And Spider-Man getting KO’d by strange hitting him is either pis or the Russo’s just don’t think he’s all that durable.

I dont see why it happend in the same canon verse, the same chracter did that, is FFH not canon to MCU? Did Peter get amped?

Then it just makes Spider-Man inconsistent if he can get knocked out by a dude hitting him at such a slow speed. Might as well use 616 Spider-Man ko’ing firelord here as well.

@eredin12: You cannot judge the power of something based on visuals or by speed

nor can you just scale everything to a characters best feats in movies directed by different people

he lacks any anti feats under them

he literally got ko‘d by having his head bounce off the ground. That’s an anti feat if you’re saying he can survive all of Spider-Man’s best durability feats

with your scaling cap > black panther in durability since he got up from a punch from Thanos before T’Challa

Hell, might as well say iron spider is more durable than bleeding edge iron man via this

Since his armor didn’t shatter like Tony’s did

@eredin12: agreed

Spidey blitzes, rips his hands off, then shoryukens him into orbit.

@eredin12: No, since that was the result of Thanos throwing him with enaugh force, not some normal fall

quantify the force of the throw

Or we can use common sense and deduce that Thanos probably uses more force on a guy with armor like that

if only you could use common sense

No, since Thanos was holding back here while aginst Tony he was using loot more force, was more bloodlusted, but yes both are made of super durable material

prove he used more force on Tony with objective quantifiable evidence.

then do the same for the strange throw that knocked his ass out

Statues don't fight back etc

Peter blitzes. I'm not convinced Strange is super humanly durable by the standards of the MCU. To prove that you need a measurable feat. Like Cap jumps out of air planes, Spider-man gets sent flying through bus's, etc. I've argued the same for comic characters no reason the same standard shouldn't apply to live action.

Because he has showings of being hurt by a lot less than spider-man. There are a lot of inconsistencies in fights in the MCU. Your argument hinges on spider-man being 100% consistent. There is also no explanation for his durability. He was clearly hurt by physical attacks in this fight.

I don't know which explosion feat your referencing. Before I respond to that I would like to know what your implying about Strange's speed.

@eredin12:

in IW? No, as far as i know

Strange's durability never got buffed in infinity war nor did he develop super human physicals.

We dont assume inconsistencies unless we absolutely have to, by that logic since DBS( both anime and manga) has inconstancy that menas we cannot use scaling at all to scale Jiren to Goku and Beerus universal feats, that is just wrong.

We aren't talking about dragon ball z. I call inconsistencies as I see them.

That was noob fodder Strange, this is IW Strange and wizards did show superhuman physicals in that movie as well, so their magic clearly grants them that,

I don't recall them displaying super human physicals.

Ancient One has cut Thanos ships instantly with a casual shield throw but it did not cut wizards, just kill them, they are clearly shown to have some superhuman stats

This is a pretty desperate reach. Just because the MCU decides to censor violence doesn't make the wizards super human. Especially since we saw Wong get knocked out for a bit by water from a fire hydrant. Unless your telling me the water from that fire hydrant hit with the force to destroy one of Thanos ships.

Besides, i think he can react with shield unless Peter is faster than an explosion

You keep saying that but your not explaining the implication despite being asked nor are you even showing me the feat despite me saying I don't know what your talking about. How am I suppose to address this point?

@eredin12:

When kaecilius unleashed explosion Strange reacted to it, and blocked it with shield( since he was weak then shield was broken and he was sent flying but we saw yellow pieces of his broken shield)

I am just implying/ stating taht he has fast reactions, enaugh to open the shield

Can you post the feat? And how fast is Strange?

@eredin12:

We saw wizards have them as a result of their magic( Ancient One kicked guy 10+ meters, same was with kaeciliu, no peak human ever did that in MCU, only superhumans ) so if it is the result of magic logically when he got much strogner his physicals also did

When did she kick anyone 10 meters?

That is just analogy, as i said we dont assume inconsistencies unless we have to, Strange being super durable is a pursuable alternative, especially since we saw them have superhuman physicals

I'm not seeing any evidence strange is super humanly durable. You could apply this logic to any character and pretend inconsistencies don't exist.

I guess them censoring violence could make snese, never thought of that, but still, they showed Thanos arm, head cut off, Thor's eye, they are not afraid of that, yet here that did not happend here, they were not cut at all, it seems to reach for me to suest its not feat at all

Thanos is an alien so its a bit different than showing a person cut. It also still killed him.

As i said i am not sure that there is evidence he was knocked out, only sent flying out of the scene, we dont see him after that until he shows many city blocks down to save IM after a minute, he could just let Strange to deal with Maw and went there to help Tony deal with Cull

The Destiny Arrives novel says he was taken out.

Here it is

https://imgur.com/lUCn4g2

I think he has very fast reactions that let him react to objects, beings on this level especially with this distance

I don't think Strange is reacting here. I played the scene in slow motion and Strange was flying through the air before his shield was up.

The glow you see is Kaecilius energy. Strange was thrown back by the shockwave which is common in action movies.

He easily reacted to kick from Thanos as well from point-blank range, now Peter is faster but here he also has 4 meters to open shield not just half meter, meaning even if he was 8 times faster he could do it

Thanos is no wehere near as nimble as spider-man. Thanos is fast in the way bricks are fast. He has good reflexes and skill but I don't recall him blitzing anyone in the fashion Spider-man can. Comparing Spider-man and Thanos in speed seems silly to me.

Spider-Man blitzes him before he can react. No chance of tagging the guy. Meanwhile, Strange is a glass cannon.

@eredin12: Ancient One was fighting on the side of the building. She kicked him in the air and he lost his footing. Regardless that is less than 1 ton yet the sorcerer's still hurt each other with physical attacks...Really I think that has more to do with the Ancient One screwing with the physics of the environment.

Yeah but he still has blood and all, hell Thor is humanoid that looks like a human but they showed his eye cut, sure force still killed him but it did not cut him as it did Thanos ship

I mean there are different degrees of violence they are allowed to show on screen. For a PG rating they have to keep the violence from being "pervasive"

Any depiction of conflict and/or aggression will be limited and moderate; it might include physical, fantasy, or supernatural violence. Any such depictions should not be pervasive, and must be justified within the context of theme, storyline or character development.

https://mediasmarts.ca/sites/default/files/pdfs/lesson-plan/Lesson_Violence_Film.pdf

They also can't be "persistent" or "both realistic and extreme".

There may be depictions of violence in a PG-13 movie, but generally not both realistic and extreme or persistent violence.

https://www.marshallcinema.com/mpaa

Basically there is a limit to how much violence they can show and to what extent. If the Ancient One has been decapitating everyone in that scene it would have risked them getting out of the PG 13 rating because the violence could have qualified under those guidelines.

That is noncanon

I would consider it secondary canon. Regardless its also in script:

[Wong and Doctor Strange are fighting against Maw. Maw lifts several bricks from the ground and turns them into sharp points. He sends them towards Wong and Strange. The two make portals and send them back towards Maw. Maw moves a car to protect himself, but one spike still hits his head, creating a cut. Wong is knocked back into rubble and a car, falling to the ground unconscious. Strange flies forward to fight Maw but is knocked back into a building, bricks trapping him]

https://crazynate.com/full-movie-script-marvel-avengers-infinity-war/

He was, that is not matter of debate, wach scene agian

I watched the scene again. It just seems more clear he did not get his shield up before he was sent flying. We clearly see him in the air with no shield.

Even if you want to say that yellow glow in the frame is shield (its not....) its clearly not formed yet meaning that if strange did even try to make a shield he was literally to slow to react.

Sure Thanos cannot replicate that since he lacks agility( that is mostly agility feat) but when it comes to raw combat speed he does not lack, he moved his arm as fast as bullet fast repulsors,

I mean in the scan I posted Peter out paced an actual bullet.

blocked Carol's hypersonic photon blasts while nearly dead( he moved much slower than the blast itself but it is at least high subsonic to mach 1 combat speed feat) yet Strange managed to react to him at point-blank range,

Peter is still faster even assuming the Russos intended that to be a speed feat.

I dont see how Peters agility matters here its his speed, do you belive Peter is more than 8 times faster than Thanos, that is is is his running speed( he needs to cross this distance) more than 8 times above Thanos kicking one, if it not Strange should be able to react with a shield

I do think Spider-man is more than 8X faster than Thanos. Whether we want to be realistic and look at this by the way both characters are intended to be or if we want to rely on pixel scaling and editing.

@eredin12:

What? Obviously, when you are in the air you lost your footing but that does not change fact that he was sent 10 meters as result other kick, its cleary superhuman feat

What I am saying is this battle took place in a city that was on its side. Even if you want to argue the ancient one is super human she is still much less than 1 ton.

No this is multi-ton feat based on visuals alone( sending somone flying 10 meters) but as i siad we cannot judge striking power only on visuals, we saw how Strange was durable in IW

Sending a person flying 10M is not a multi-ton feat. Sending 200KG's flying 10 Meter's a second is only 2000 netwons which is less than a ton of force. And 200KG'S is an extreme high ball for the record. No way that dude weighs 400lbs.

https://www.smartconversion.com/unit_calculation/Force_calculator.aspx

And honestly either way this doesn't prove there taking hits from spider-man. The fact the ancient one has no issue hurting these people with physical attacks tells me Peter is knocking Strange's head off.

Gallery

So even if my math is wrong and it is a multi-ton feat... She still doesn't come remotely close to spider-man.

We still saw him react to the explosion itself, move distance before it got close to him and start making the shield,

That's pretty standard action movie stuff. Not to mention its a magical energy blast and not a normal explosion.

that in his hand was a shield that started making but could not finish and as i siad explosion is much faster than Spiderman, its not even close

He failed to react so its not a feat.

Thanos moved as fast as bullet fast repulsor, so i dont see how that proves he is 8 times faster?

Out pacing a bullet>>moving as fast as a bullet.

Faster yes, 8 times? I dont think so, machine gun speed is mach 2,6, repulsors are only litle slower if at all, but yes they did, unless you have them saying that they did not, they did, hell just after he blocks it we see them crossing 10 meters at FTE speed instantly, they clearly did intend it

Tony's repulsor blasts have never been shown to be as fast as machine gun fire. Not sure who your saying moved faster than the eye? But neither iron man or Thanos have done that in combat.

Hell if that is not eanguh for you here is Abomination moving few times faster than RPG that moves at 1100 KMH, he made it look slow and only tired caching it when it was on point-blank range, i dont guy that Peter is 8 times faster than thanos

Thor, Hulk and Namor have done the same thing and Peter runs circles around them just fine. Spider-man has reacted to missiles as well. His webbing has actually been shown to be faster than RPG's. He pretty much reacts to his own webbing regularly by just swinging around New York.

Then show me feats that show that by feats you showed now he is faster but nowhere near 8 tiems

I feel I already have. But lets start off with something easy. Show me Thanos moving at blur speeds. Than show me him moving at those speeds to someone as fast and capable as Paladin.

Gallery

This is something Peter did with casual effort. It shouldn't be to hard to show if Thanos is close to spider-man's level of speed.

I never used pixel scaling and editing but there is no better way to know how fast is somone it needed to be then to look at feats if they animated Thanos being as fast as Repulsor then he is that fast unless you can show me Russos saying otherwise i cannot just ignore it

But you also have this Abomination feat above, Thor fighting while IM was statued in his flight( QS perception), Hela reacting to lightning from ground, i think it at least shows that they are massively subsonic to the low supersonic range( which is only 20 times faster than normal humans, not hard to believe)so i dont buy Peter being 8 times faster, sure he can blitz Strange at h2h range as he did to Kingpin but from 4 meters? I am not sure

4 meters really isn't much distance to spider-man.

Smh Eredin really out here saying Strange can tank a bloodlusted 616 Spidey punch and y'all arguing like the debate is gonna convince anyone... Pick your battles smh.

@eredin12:

Do you realize RL MMA fighters can kick with more than 1-ton force? did you ever see them sned person flying at all let alone 10 meters?

OK so the ancient one is only slightly above MMA fighters.

She never hurt IW strange, my point is yes that does not compare to Peter but force needed to knock Iron Spider?if anything it exceeds him( in one-shot)

I see no evidence Strange is more durable than the other sorcerers or a reason we should assume his durability outclasses there so vastly.

But it shows his fast speed, i can just say dodging bullets is also standard peak human staff but it shows speed

Its not much of a feat if Strange didn't react until after the fact.

He did react, he just did not finish shield but as i siad that was much wekaer Strange and Peter is much slower than explosion

I already showed you the screen shot of Strange in the air with no shield. He did not react.

By like 1,5, 2 times at best, not 8 times, that is point

Well we are also comparing how fast Thanos swings his arms to how fast Peter moves his entire body. If Peter can move his entire body twice as fast as Thanos can swing his arm than he obviously strikes way faster if we are comparing punches.

in the Civil War under same directors, they moved much faster( like 5,6 times) than Hawkye modern arrows( which should be around 500KMH) they made them look slow

Where are you getting 5-6 times? Didn't you say you weren't using pixel scaling?

Repulsors did that, that shows they are bullet speed and Thanos moved as fast as them

He deflected them. He can't physically run as fast as them.

Thanks to his spider senses, that does not prove anywhere near even 3 times let alone 8 times speed difference, that is the point, this feat is very underrated( Abom) , its great one, that is why don't see Peter blitzing that easily from 4 meters

Spider-sense helps but he literally runs circles around them. Take his fight with Herc. Peter only got tagged because he hurt his hand and got distracted. He did under Greg Pak who also has had Herc catch missiles.

Gallery

Which is comperable feat at best, but i know Peter has feats as good as Abomination in fact he has better ones, but the difference is nowhere near as big as 8 times, Abom is in the low supersonic range

Well my point about the webbing is catching missiles is really nothing to Peter.

Abom feat is at least mach 1,5 to mach 2( at least its more but lets say that) you showed machine gun rate feat and outspending bullet, that is not near 8 times faster than Abom( which is hypersonic speed)

Abomination is also just catching the projectile. Base Ball pitchers have caught base ball's moving 100MPH but they don't fight that fast or throw a volley of punches at those speeds.

Wait, are you saying that moving at blur speed( subsonic speed) is above moving much faster than RPG? Even if it was done to Paladin?

Well this is what an RPG looks like in motion.

When looking at it from a straight angle it can't be seen but when looking at it from a side angle you can see it pass by. You can still make out its shape unlike Spider-man. Peter is also bigger than the RPG.

Also there is a pretty big difference between moving your hand and your entire body at fast speeds. An example of what I am talking about is how David Price caught a baseball moving 98MPH at close range, but he is no where near fast enough to run that fast or fight at those speeds.

Just because Thanos is fast enough to catch missiles doesn't mean every strike he throws is missile level.

Well, how about making RPG look slow for now?Blur speed is nothing special, people in the past said me cars can do that( fast cars) i disagree but its much faster but still subsonic feat, i really dont get how does that prove you are much faster than guy that made 1100 KMH fast projectile look slow

Cars don't move as a blur to human perception. Things and look like a blur when you are driving inside a fast vehicle. But I've never heard of a car moving so fast you can't make out its shape.

Sure but i think unless he is 8 times faster than Thanos that its enaugh for Strange to react

I will gladly acpet evidnece since i am not saying this is stomp or anything for Strange, i can see Peter wining, but based on what i know of him i think Strange can pull majority if he acts fast and quick

I mean even if Strange gets a shield up, his shields aren't omnidirectional. Peter just leaps over him, bounces off the wall and strikes him from behind.

Gallery

Strange creates a shield, Peter bounces off of it, maneuvers off the walls behind him, and hits him from behind. If strange is kept on the defensive being forced to block blitzes he wont be able to make an offense and Peter can just keep trying until succeeds. His spells require hand movements so if he stops making a shield, Peter just has to strike him before he gestures to cast his spell to attack. If he keeps using the shield Peter just has to get behind him.

Personally I don't think he can react to Peter's opening blitz.

Depends on the distance, his Cloak could potentially stall too. If Strange can just get a spell like this it'd be over, other than that he'd get blitzed.

@eredin12:

By your logic she would be below them since they kick with more than 1 ton but they do not send anyone flying and she does for 10 meters, so she is far above them, hence why i siad multi-ton feat

As far as I know MMA fighters don't hit that hard but its whatever because Peter is way past this level.

Fact that he has shown to have similar durabiltiy as Iron Spider, is that not enough for you, how can you just ignore that? Its not like i made that up, it happend but i understand why people would want more evidnece than that, so maybe its best to focus on his speed rather than durability

This whole debate started because I said the feat was inconsistent. You have been trying to prove this is consistent.

You dont need to create a full shield to react something, after explosion started he magnet to perceive it, move his head( react) down, his arms and start making, sure he did not finish but he did react

I'm saying he was already blown back by the shockwave. He failed to react.

Does Spiderman have 4 meters long arms? No,

He has ranged attacks in the form of webs.

so that is irelvnat Strange easily reacted to Thanos swinging his leg,

Who is slower than spider-man.

sicne Peter is only twice that fast(the speed at which he moves his entire body) he will not be able to cross 4 meters before Strange opens shiled around himslef, that is my point

The speed at which Peter moves his entire body is twice as fast as Thanos moving his arms. If Peter can move his entire body faster than Thanos moves his arm he is a lot more than just 8X faster than Thanos.

I mean if we see it move much faster, so fast that it makes this look like a snail then using it is logical and justifiable, when you said pixel scaling I did not think you meant this, I am all for using this, that is animated intended aspect, we need to know that to know how fast they are( intent as well)

The repulsor blasts never made the arrows look slow.

I know, but that is irelvnat for my point sicne Strange did not react to him ruining but him striking, very easily as well

OK. He has to react to a strike from a far faster enemy who also isn't fighting several people at once and being kept off balance.

Same is with Abom, this was nothing to him

Abomination isn't doctor strange.....Nor does it prove Peter wouldn't blitz him like he blitzes every other brick.

The difference here is that he did it at point-blank range and we see him move his arm 2,3 times faster than it while doing that, that is how we know its cobmat speed feat, just like WW moving as fast as a bullet( her arm)

Abomination wasn't point blank. I don't know where your getting his arms moving twice as fast.

I was talking about those big RPG missiles, but you can still see it yes(it's visible just very hard) i know PEter is much faster than RPG but so is Abom, i just dont think that his travel speed( which is what he needs to cross 4 meters) is more than 8 times faster than Aboms striking speed

Why does his travel speed need to be 8 times faster than Abomination's striking speed? The OP doesn't specify distance so they begin up close per battle forum rules. What does abomination even have to do with doctor strange? They've never interacted.

I think that Strange has made omndiercinal ones as well and as we saw the speed at which he makes them can be instant if he wishes

Looks like he is just creating a shield to protect Peter and Tony. He's never done this in a fight either.

He only needs to react really and make this shield and then he is safe and Peter will be one on defense,

When has strange shown the ability to attack from within his shield? When has he ever created a shield like that in a fight?

but also as i siad he can just open portal bellow himslef and teleport some distance where it will take Peter more time and then create a shield,

Creating a portal requires hand movements. Which he can't do if he is creating a shield.

his cloak can also help, if it caught Peter he is dead man, it will choke him out, even thanos needed the effort to break free and lets not forget that Russos are ones that gave both Thor and Hulk their best strength feats and Thanos overpowered them

Thanos tore the cloak off in a second. He put the same effort ripping off spider-man's webbing.

Mirror dimension one shots.

I honestly can’t believe this thread even made it this far, Peter stomps !!!

Spidey wrecks