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#51 Posted by _KingofLatveria (17997 posts) - - Show Bio

@greysentinel365:

not at all thats an empty 3 tonne crater thats nothing.

source?

Not really no.

he threw it like a meter luke launched a dude threw a huge locked door with a bullet in his arm, I have no idea how you think that feat is better

Beating down Melinda May and Grant Ward with no issue.

no issues is a big stretch, also fancy flips don't equal skill, May and Ward got a lot more hits on them than the latter

All I remember happening in Ep 2 is the guy in a wheelchair laying her down and getting her in a hold. I mean she fought the PI guy in Ep 1. But that was 1 cheapshot after tanking a taser. Then when bloodied and could barely stand threw 1 half assed punch.

Jess said he lead a military party, or something anyways her feat sidestepping a mind controlled Luke is still a really good feat

Random security guards were able to land blows on her. The random guy the hand had watching her was able to land consistent strikes on her.

only one security guard got a hit on her, and that was because he came out of an elevator: what random guy? Murakami?

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#52 Posted by ThunderPrince (6525 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly, backing the Centipede Soldiers. They can compete with Luke/Jessica physically and are elite spec-ops on top of that.

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#53 Edited by Greysentinel365 (5393 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria:

he threw it like a meter luke launched a dude threw a huge locked door with a bullet in his arm, I have no idea how you think that feat is better

Several actually, all with one arm. And it would have kept going if Mike hadn't stopped it. You still haven't shown me anything from Jess or Luke that's better.

no issues is a big stretch, also fancy flips don't equal skill, May and Ward got a lot more hits on them than the latter

In a 2v1. And yeah I would say no issues. The two did no damage, a grand total of 2 hits were landed by them, both by May and only doing by blindsiding him after he disposed of Ward.

her feat sidestepping a mind controlled Luke is still a really good feat

Mind controlled being the key word. Luke is significantly slower and weaker in that fight than we later see him. Due to him fighting Killgraves control the whole time.

only one security guard got a hit on her, and that was because he came out of an elevator

And this guy.

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A random security guard. Swap this guy with a Centipede and Jess would be embedded in the wall behind her from that, out cold.

what random guy? Murakami?

No overweight spy they had on the family Jess had a case with. Can't find a clip but go to Ep4 of Defenders at 36:15. The guy lands several hits on her and she only pulls through due to her strength advantage. Which is worthless here.

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#54 Posted by _KingofLatveria (17997 posts) - - Show Bio

@greysentinel365:

Several actually, all with one arm. And it would have kept going if Mike hadn't stopped it. You still haven't shown me anything from Jess or Luke that's better.

Jessica bus feat and Luke throw are both better, we have no idea how far it would've gone at best let's say a meter it wasn't going all that fast at all.

In a 2v1. And yeah I would say no issues. The two did no damage, a grand total of 2 hits were landed by them, both by May and only doing by blindsiding him after he disposed of Ward.

yeah there was a lot more than 2 hits landed on them, Ward was taken out quickly due to acting as a human sheild for May. Also as I said earlier, Matt's grappling hook and Danny's fist which he could keep going for over 2 minutes during the final fight against Elektra.

Mind controlled being the key word. Luke is significantly slower and weaker in that fight than we later see him. Due to him fighting Killgraves control the whole time.

I could argue he was bloodlusted due to the mind control and how can you tell he was weaker and slower you're just nitpicking at this point

And this guy.

congratulations out of a total of like 20 Hand bodyguards that came out at the defenders, 2 of them landed hits on Jessica.

A random security guard. Swap this guy with a Centipede and Jess would be embedded in the wall behind her from that, out cold.

which is how she tanked several hits from Alisa and Luke both of which are stronger than Centipede soldiers

No overweight spy they had on the family Jess had a case with. Can't find a clip but go to Ep4 of Defenders at 36:15. The guy lands several hits on her and she only pulls through due to her strength advantage. Which is worthless here.

can you post a scan, are you talking about the guy who killed himself?

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#55 Edited by Greysentinel365 (5393 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria:

Jessica bus feat

What Bus feat lol Jess did absolutely nothing until her Mum came in to help. Jessica strained just holding up the elevator.

Luke throw are both better,

Yeah not seeing it. At all.

we have no idea how far it would've gone at best let's say a meter it wasn't going all that fast at all.

Buddy. Come on.

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That's not a meter.

yeah there was a lot more than 2 hits landed on them,

Nope. Just two by May and Ward. I suppose you might be referring to Mike's hits? The thing is Mike is superhuman in his own right and is a fully trained combatant by now. Mike would easily take Jess and arguably Luke

Ward was taken out quickly due to acting as a human sheild for May.

Both May and Ward have been beaten individually anyway.

I could argue he was bloodlusted due to the mind control and how can you tell he was weaker and slower you're just nitpicking at this point

He's not bloodlusted. He's fighting Killgraves control all the way. Hence him stopping whenever he has Jess on the ropes. Hence the trained boxer throwing massive wide punches slow as hell. Hence his striking on Jess not holding up to his later feats.

It's not like Luke went to the gym before his own series. We all know that Jess can't do crap against a serious Luke. He can just walk through her.

congratulations out of a total of like 20 Hand bodyguards that came out at the defenders, 2 of them landed hits on Jessica.

Lol. She only fought two Luke and Danny handled the rest.

which is how she tanked several hits from Alisa and Luke both of which are stronger than Centipede soldiers

Jess never tanked a hit from Alisa. Alisa pinned her with one arm leaving her absolutely helpless and easily laid her out with single blows.

Luke was holding back/hindered that entire fight. She takes one cheapshot at the start which she blocks but is still laid out from, one push that launches her, one half-hearted punch that has no impact whatsoever and that's it. Hardly tanking.

Again Luke can just walk through Jessica when he wants to. The only reason she could do jack was because he was fighting Killgraves control.

can you post a scan, are you talking about the guy who killed himself?

Or you could just go to the timestamp.

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#56 Posted by _KingofLatveria (17997 posts) - - Show Bio

@greysentinel365:

What Bus feat lol Jess absolutely nothing until her Mum came in to help.

her mum helped her pick it up, Jess slowed down the momentum by herself

Nope. Just two by May and Ward. I suppose you might be referring to Mike's hits? The thing is Mike is superhuman in his own right and is a fully trained combatant by now.

I'm well aware Mike is superhuman thank you for pointing that out, and May landed a lot more than 2 hits on them

Both May and Ward have been beaten individually anyway.

and I pointed that out like every post regarding this. May and Ward had no way to hurt them Rand and Matt do.

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Lol. She only fought two Luke and Danny handled the rest.

she fought at least 5 on screen. We have no idea how many she fought while Matt was fighting Elektra

Jess never tanked a hit from Alisa. Alisa pinned her with one arm leaving her absolutely helpless and easily laid her out with single blows.

when Alisa threw her into a wall, she was more surprised than hurt and she also tanked several hits from Luke.

Luke was holding back/hindered that entire fight. She takes one cheapshot at the start which she blocks but is still laid out from, one push that launches her, one half-hearted punch that has no impact whatsoever and that's it. Hardly tanking.

proof he was holding back he was throwing several punches if he was holding back you really couldn't see it

Or you could just go to the timestamp.

its not a hard question to answer and Jessica was trying not to hurt him the entire time assuming you are referring to that guy

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#57 Posted by AngelJax (11073 posts) - - Show Bio
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#58 Posted by _KingofLatveria (17997 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax: Batons and grappling hook. He could tie one up even if he can't he's still more than able to stagger them until Danny finished off one

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#59 Edited by AngelJax (11073 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria: How exactly is that going to hurt them though? They no sell punches from guys like Ward who is stronger than Matt.

The Billy clubs aren't going to contain them, not with their strength.

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#60 Posted by The_Magister (12886 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria: Matt is not hurting them with batons and grappling hooks. And they would easily break out of any attempts to tie them up.

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#61 Posted by _KingofLatveria (17997 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_magister: @angeljax:

I haven't seen anything from Ward that's as powerful as the gif above ^ or staggering Black Sky. His batons were stated to be near indestructible by Potter take that as you will although I admit they don't have many feats with morals off he could still cut their neck with one of them though

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#62 Posted by The_Magister (12886 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria: That feat is ok, but people overrate it. Those types of hollow cinderblocks, they'll break if you step on them hard enough in real life. It's no better than Ward pushing Bobbi hard enough to break off a wall, with zero effort or momentum.

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Mike Peterson took a shotgun blast at point-blank and got up moments later after a 50 foot fall, (due to losing his balance from the bullets). Ward visibly causing these guys pain is a feat for Ward, not a feat against them.

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#63 Posted by _KingofLatveria (17997 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_magister:

That feat is ok, but people overrate it. Those types of hollow cinderblocks, they'll break if you step on them hard enough in real life.

seriously?

It's no better than Ward pushing Bobbi hard enough to break off a wall, with zero effort or momentum.

not trying to downplay scans but thats not a striking feat

Mike Peterson took a shotgun blast at point-blank and got up moments later after a 50 foot fall,

Bakuto kinda replicated the same thing and Matt staggered him above

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#64 Posted by The_Magister (12886 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria: Yeah. I honestly think that if you want to showcase Matt's strength, there are far better feats to use. Him throwing Nobu, him smashing thugs' heads through car windows, etc.

I rarely ever treat striking and lifting as mutually exclusive. Imo, when it comes to human combatants, striking comes from two sources:

  • Skill
  • Lifting

I'd have to rewatch the Bakuto scene to see what you're talking about. I won't ask you for a video because I trust you, but do you have the episode number at-least?

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#65 Posted by _KingofLatveria (17997 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_magister:

Misty shot Bakuto with her handgun till it was empty and he kept walking through it

last ep of Defenders granted its not a shotgun but its still pretty impressive pain tolerance feat

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#66 Posted by The_Magister (12886 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria: Awesome, I'll check it out later.

But Mr. Blank can beat infinite Centipede Soldiers.

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#67 Posted by AngelJax (11073 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria: I can't find the clip but in the AoS premiere, Ward brought pre-cybernetics Deathlok down to his knees with a single kick to the back, and then momentarily keeps him within a hold.

I don't personally see Matt replicating that. I think it's important to consider the aesthetic and stylistic choices between the charcters. Matt capitalizes on leverage and transfer of momentum, Ward doesn't need to half of the time because he's just that physically dominant and imposing. If Ward and Matt were to ever fight, I don't think Matt would be written to be stronger.

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#68 Posted by _KingofLatveria (17997 posts) - - Show Bio
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#69 Posted by _KingofLatveria (17997 posts) - - Show Bio

But Mr. Blank can beat infinite Centipede Soldiers.

indeed he can

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#70 Posted by deactivated-5aa8a6c4d26f9 (269 posts) - - Show Bio

Defenders can win this, mostly due to Luke/Danny

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#71 Posted by Arcus1 (27488 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax said:
@greysentinel365 said:

@angeljax: Hey, so apparently Jess fought a military general or something is S2? I asked the person who brought it up for an episode number and couldn't get one and I've combed through the season and couldn't find it.

You have any idea what they're talking about?

The only person Jess fought with a teaser this season was Pryce Cheng. He was just another PI (though I am unsure if she tanks the discharge from the teaser here. You can see the electricity reaching out but I don't know if it actually touches her)

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I mean, wouldn't make any sense for him to just hold the taser in front of her without actually hitting her. Admittedly haven't seen S2, but seems pretty clear that he tried to tase her and she no-sold it

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#72 Posted by AngelJax (11073 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: Probably could've just been a "stay back" tactic, as the man didn't want to engage. But it does make more sense that she tanked it.

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#73 Posted by Arcus1 (27488 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax: strength wise, how would you say Jessica compares to a Centipede soldier?

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#74 Posted by HeroUp2112 (17561 posts) - - Show Bio

@greysentinel365 said:

@paytience: I knew you going to link that one.

Look ma, no guns.

Yeah just serum.

Let's break this down. Ward can't even stagger him a punch to the face. The soldier just no sells it.

The only hits Ward was able to land that were worth a damn were when the soldier had his hand stuck in a car. The soldier still ragdolls him again despite said being stuck in the car.

Ward is consistently ragdolled and outmatched the whole fight. Only winning via a desperation tactic and a serum.

So no. Ward has never actually beaten a centipede soldier on his own via his own skills/physicals.

Danny has never beaten anybody of real note on his own through "skills and physicals". Danny get's the shit kicked out of him until he's cowering on the ground and then jumps out with a surprise hiya iron fist that only works half the time.

Daredevil got wrecked on no less than 3 occasions by someone with similar credentials to the centipedes before they received the serum.

Jessica Jones got hurt by a prison guard with a nightstick.

And Luke Cage faced one person with anything close to Centipede physicals and she knocked his ass out.

Any other questions? Or you wanna continue arguing about how the Defenders can't beat Grant Ward?

Danny hasn't beaten anyone of real note on his own? He went through an entire episode of beating the Hand's top bad guys. He also thorough schooled on of the Chaste (the big bad guys of the Defenders series). Yes, there was the completely BS finale of his series where the guy with completely no skill in ANYthing "jacked with his head" and was a problem, oh, he also fought and defeated the drunken style guy? How many bad asses does he HAVE to beat? Also, for the people who are saying that The Fist might not take down these Centipede soldiers, I'm not sure what you're thinking.

Yeah, Daredevil MIGHT keep one busy for awhile until he gets help from Danny or Luke.

Likewise, Jessica may be able to keep one minorly busy for a bit. She's got good strength, and some improved durability feats recently, but...yeah...anyone with any real skill is gonna own her pretty quick.

Black Sky knocked out Luke when he was severely drugged, not even close to counting. One of these guys might be a problem for Luke but I have little to no doubt Luke's high skill (though no not Centipede level) in hand to hand and superior strength and durability is going to put him on top of a fight with one, then help him clean up another one. Same with Danny.

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#75 Edited by AngelJax (11073 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: I feel like Luke and Jessica are intended to be stronger if we take their high-end feats and extrapolate to what they could do whilst not holding back, but budget constraits really restricts them. By showings, Luke and Jessica haven't come close to ever replicating the shipping container feat.

Jessica is definitely strong enough to hurt one though, possibly KO.

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#76 Posted by _KingofLatveria (17997 posts) - - Show Bio

Centipede Soldiers do not hit as hard as Black Sky

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#77 Edited by Greysentinel365 (5393 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria:

her mum helped her pick it up, Jess slowed down the momentum by herself

And this is better than anything else she's done because? Her elevator feat has her limit at holding (not lifting) around 3 tons. Putting a 3 tonne weight on that Bus would have the same effect Jess did. I fail to see how it's anything new for her or that it raises her.

I'm well aware Mike is superhuman thank you for pointing that out, and May landed a lot more than 2 hits on them

Dude. No. She didn't. Timestamp this.

and I pointed that out like every post regarding this. May and Ward had no way to hurt them Rand and Matt do.

Matt's feat is not enough to harm a Centipede.

And I already said the Iron Fist could put one down if it hit. But I'm not convinced it would one-shot.

she fought at least 5 on screen. We have no idea how many she fought while Matt was fighting Elektra

No. 3. We can see Jess at all times going into that. She punches one guy away with Luke. Luke and Danny then charge ahead of her through the rest. When the camera circles around Matt fighting Elektra we can see Jess calmly meandering down the hall to the elevator. Where she fights the other two guys.

Jess does next to nothing in that fight.

when Alisa threw her into a wall, she was more surprised than hurt and she also tanked several hits from Luke.

At the restaurant? Yes I'm sure she's groaning in pain because she surprised.

She's never tanked hits from even the hindered holding back Luke. As shown above, Luke can just walk through Jess when he want to, the only reason she can do anything to him is due to Luke fighting Killgraves control.

proof he was holding back he was throwing several punches if he was holding back you really couldn't see it

Cage is a trained and skilled boxer. You can't compare how he's fighting Jess with his later fights. Compared to them he's just flailing with Jessica.

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#78 Posted by _KingofLatveria (17997 posts) - - Show Bio

@greysentinel365:

And this is better than anything else she's done because? Her elevator feat has her limit at holding (not lifting) around 3 tons. Putting a 3 tonne weight on that Bus would have the same effect Jess did. I fail to see how it's anything new for her or that it raises her.

that's a terrible lowball, she was holding a conversation with Luke and Danny and she also had to stop the fall of an elevator that was nowhere near her limits

Dude. No. She didn't. Timestamp this.

umm no, its your thread, and you're the one who claimed first May only landed 2 hits on them lol. Thats up to you to provide not me.

Matt's feat is not enough to harm a Centipede.

its good enough to stagger them and Matt could stagger Black Sky as well who has greater at the very least equal durrabillity to them.

But I'm not convinced it would one-shot.

why?

No. 3. We can see Jess at all times going into that. She punches one guy away with Luke. Luke and Danny then charge ahead of her through the rest. When the camera circles around Matt fighting Elektra we can see Jess calmly meandering down the hall to the elevator. Where she fights the other two guys.

and what do you think she was doing without Danny and Luke protecting her? During the time she was casually walking to the elevator

At the restaurant? Yes I'm sure she's groaning in pain because she surprised.

she never said a word during that, she just had a surprised look on her face

She's never tanked hits from even the hindered holding back Luke. As shown above, Luke can just walk through Jess when he want to, the only reason she can do anything to him is due to Luke fighting Killgraves control.

Luke was not holding back, If he was he wouldn't be changing his facial expression when punching. The facial expression shows he was putting some work into his punches

Compared to them he's just flailing with Jessica.

cause she's sidestepping him.......

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#79 Posted by BladeOfFury (2901 posts) - - Show Bio

Centipede soldiers win tbh. Matt gets demolished, he can't hurt them. They outclass Jessica in all aspects (haven't seen JJ S2 though). Luke could beat 1, but 2 will take him down. Danny won't use the fist until it's too late.

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#80 Edited by Greysentinel365 (5393 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria:

that's a terrible lowball, she was holding a conversation with Luke and Danny and she also had to stop the fall of an elevator that was nowhere near her limits

Catching is not as impressive as lifting. She wasn't "holding a conversation" she yelled at them to hurry up. And she was at her limits.

Hence the straining

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And the gritting of teeth as she's pushed to her limits

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umm no, its your thread, and you're the one who claimed first May only landed 2 hits on them lol. Thats up to you to provide not me.

Here are the only hits May lands.

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Now if you wish to assert otherwise. Meet your burden of proof and show it.

its good enough to stagger them and Matt could stagger Black Sky as well who has greater at the very least equal durrabillity to them.

I don't remember Matt staggering Black Sky. I remember him throwing a lot of ineffectual punches.

why?

Things like Mike taking a shotgun blast and a good 40-50m drop and being fine. Taking hits from Mike etc etc.

and what do you think she was doing without Danny and Luke protecting her? During the time she was casually walking to the elevator

Casually walking to the elevator. We can see her as she does this

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she never said a word during that, she just had a surprised look on her face

I never said she said anything. I said she was groaning in pain.

Luke was not holding back, If he was he wouldn't be changing his facial expression when punching. The facial expression shows he was putting some work into his punches

He demonstrably was. Because we see several times during the fight he's able to stop and talk to Jess. If he has the control to totally stop for a time, he's nerfing his punches as well because he continuously fighting the control off.

Facial expressions aren't everything

cause she's sidestepping him.......

Cause he's slower due to him holding back.

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#81 Posted by Greysentinel365 (5393 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

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#82 Posted by RBT (25804 posts) - - Show Bio

Defenders. Danny being MVP.

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#83 Posted by LDM (5354 posts) - - Show Bio

Soldiers

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#84 Edited by buildhare (8420 posts) - - Show Bio

@rbt said:

Defenders. Danny being MVP.

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#85 Posted by YouShallNotPass (1167 posts) - - Show Bio

Luke solos

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#86 Posted by JSDoctor (1290 posts) - - Show Bio

Defenders. Danny can one-shot one, maybe even two or three given that he could keep it (the Iron Fist) up for a while longer in the Defenders' final fight. But then he gets shot since there's only so long he can aim dodge, as does Jessica. I'd put Matt with gear on about May/Ward level, probably a bit above, so he could take one too especially considering that his suit is bulletproof. And Luke should have no issue taking down however many are left.

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#87 Edited by Aka_aka_aka_ak (2582 posts) - - Show Bio

Defenders win, but it's close. Jessica and hence Luke are at least as strong as them so can take on, say, one each to start with. Matt can't put one down but he can hold one off, being a superior combatant to May. Danny is also a (vastly IMO) superior combatant than May and can certainly survive long enough to one-shot with his chi punch. He then goes around one-by-one aiding the other Defenders.

@greysentinel365

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... Jessica is stronger than a Centipede soldier.

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#88 Edited by Stahlflamme (5470 posts) - - Show Bio

More centipede feats

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#89 Posted by Greysentinel365 (5393 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

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#90 Posted by _Philosoraptor_ (333 posts) - - Show Bio

Centipede win, its close tho.

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#91 Posted by carlosss14 (515 posts) - - Show Bio

Defenders win. Luke or Danny could solo

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#92 Edited by ANTHP2000 (22966 posts) - - Show Bio

Defenders, mostly due to Cage.

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#93 Posted by Greysentinel365 (5393 posts) - - Show Bio

The Centipedes still win IMO

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#94 Posted by Lan_Fan (11823 posts) - - Show Bio

I thought you meant Centipede from "Human Centipede".

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#95 Posted by Nucleon (2130 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't knew about either. I've done some researches! I think the "Defenders" would win.

Best thing Bendis ever wrote - that is more his domain than four-colours titles like Avengers.

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#96 Posted by X_insignia1 (1758 posts) - - Show Bio

Are people forgetting that Luke stopped a SUV truck moving at 40mph dead in its tracks and folded it like can?

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#97 Posted by The_Magister (12886 posts) - - Show Bio
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#98 Posted by Amcu (14830 posts) - - Show Bio

Seeing more feats I'm thinking it could go either way.

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#99 Posted by Greysentinel365 (5393 posts) - - Show Bio

After LC S2 I'm backing the Defenders. Luke might take a 3v1 of these guys.

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#100 Posted by ANTHP2000 (22966 posts) - - Show Bio

After LC S2 I'm backing the Defenders. Luke might take a 3v1 of these guys.

What's the new showing?

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