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#1 Edited by Greysentinel365 (3706 posts) - - Show Bio

MCU Defenders

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VS

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4 MCU Centipede Soldiers

  • Danny is focused
  • Matt is in full gear

Who wins?

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#2 Posted by RBT (22365 posts) - - Show Bio

Defenders

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#3 Posted by SupahJD (254 posts) - - Show Bio

Defenders.

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#4 Posted by DSTREET45 (4664 posts) - - Show Bio

Defenders if they get basic knowledge. Danny should be capable of one-shotting them with the Iron Fist. I think Luke could hold his own, though he'll land less hits than the Centipede Soldier. He could pull off a win. Matt should be capable of outmaneuvering one and land solid hits and if he has Jessica backing him up they could take one down together.

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#5 Posted by _KingofLatveria (14027 posts) - - Show Bio
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#6 Posted by mexcomics2078 (825 posts) - - Show Bio

Defenders after a decent fight

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#7 Posted by AngelJax (8978 posts) - - Show Bio

Defenders

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#10 Posted by Greysentinel365 (3706 posts) - - Show Bio

Interesting. Was not expecting the Defenders to win honestly.

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#11 Posted by DanielDaRipper (3415 posts) - - Show Bio

Defenders

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#12 Posted by ProteusXManRxis (4263 posts) - - Show Bio

Defenders.

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#13 Posted by FirestormFate1919 (5990 posts) - - Show Bio

Defenders win this.

Luke Cage is pretty superior to any of the Centipede Soldiers, across the board, so he'll probably be able to take a couple on his own. Danny can use his speed to outskill the brutes, and his Fist should be able to one-shot them, though with it's charge-up time it might only be good for dropping one. Jessica got some solid strength feats in her series, I'm definitely confident she can take one or two. Matt could hang with them as well. Ward was able to hold his own, and Matt is more skilled H2H than Ward.

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#14 Posted by deactivated-5ad4cb41c7fb8 (3527 posts) - - Show Bio

Defenders for reasons stated.

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#15 Edited by Greysentinel365 (3706 posts) - - Show Bio

@firestormfate1919:

Luke Cage is pretty superior to any of the Centipede Soldiers

Interesting. Based on what?

Danny can use his speed to outskill the brutes

I kind of doubt this. I don't really see Danny as being better than May who herself was overwhelmed by a Centipede soldier. Yes he could land a hit with the Iron Fist. But I think they would be able to take it honestly.

Moreover they're not brutes. They're all trained martial artists.

Jessica got some solid strength feats in her series, I'm definitely confident she can take one or two.

Jess hasn't got the strength feats for me to say she's stronger than them. Moreover Jess does horribly against anyone with even a inkling of marital training. I think Jess would be destroyed here.

Matt could hang with them as well. Ward was able to hold his own, and Matt is more skilled H2H than Ward.

I think Matt could fight one but I don't think he can put one down. Ward more or less got thrown around until he was able to land the serum to take one down. A serum Matt doesn't have.

I am genuinely confused how people think the defenders win this so cleanly.

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#16 Edited by _KingofLatveria (14027 posts) - - Show Bio

@firestormfate1919: @greysentinel365:

Interesting. Based on what?

Gallery image 1Gallery image 2

There was a bullet in his arms in both instances

I kind of doubt this. I don't really see Danny as being better than May who herself was overwhelmed by a Centipede soldier. Yes he could land a hit with the Iron Fist. But I think they would be able to take it honestly.

May didn't have any way to hurt them, Danny does also you said Focused in the OP so I'm assuming Zen mode in which he could casually bullet time

Jess hasn't got the strength feats for me to say she's stronger than them. Moreover Jess does horribly against anyone with even a inkling of marital training. I think Jess would be destroyed here.

Jess was a lot stronger in s2 then she was in s1 and she handled Hand ninjas who are probably better than Centipede soldiers just fine

I think Matt could fight one but I don't think he can put one down. Ward more or less got thrown around until he was able to land the serum to take one down. A serum Matt doesn't have.

Matt's a lot faster than Ward and the serum was also kind of a hindrance tbh he had to stab it in an exact possition for it to be effective, Matt's a lot more tanky and skilled than Ward

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#17 Posted by Paytience (3777 posts) - - Show Bio

lol...Jessica isn't beating a Centipede soldier...Matt isn't beting a centipede soldier...Danny sure as hell isn't...and the Centipedes are going to tee off on Luke. There is exactly zero, absolutely zero reason to assume that any of them can beat supers with Centipede credentials.

lol...there is literally one opponent with Centipede type credentials, and the Punisher beat the shit of Matt repeatedly.

Centipedes stomp. They've been put down by Deathlok, augmented night-night toxin, the Berserker staff which May use to drop a building on them, and the Destroyer gun. Defenders don't stand a chance.

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#18 Edited by Greysentinel365 (3706 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria:

I'm well aware. But Mike when under an inferior version of the Centipede serum could throw people similar distances (I couldn't find an actual clip so sorry about it being a reaction)

Even then the Centipede soldiers can easily do stuff like this

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May didn't have any way to hurt them

The only time May was able to land a hit was when the soldier was distracted by Ward. Even after acquiring two metal pipes to fight with she was overwhelmed. In the OP you can see her on the ground defeated.

Danny does also you said Focused in the OP so I'm assuming Zen mode in which he could casually bullet time

Danny has never bullet timed to my knowledge he's aim blocked. Also no he's not Zen mode here. Not what I meant.

Jess was a lot stronger in s2 then she was in s1 and she handled Hand ninjas who are probably better than Centipede soldiers just fine

Jess was weaker if anything in S2 bar throwing Simpson. Which is such a ridiculous outlier its not funny.

And watching the final Defenders fight back. Jess only fought the construction crew. And none of them tried any complex moves or sequences on her. Given that the rest of the mooks are in suits or construction gear I think it's safe to say they weren't ninjas.

Matt's a lot faster than Ward, Matt's a lot more tanky and skilled than Ward

Matt vs Ward is highly debatable IMO. I don't see any reason to rate one over the other by more than a hairs breadth.

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#19 Posted by TheOneWhoPullsTheStrings (1847 posts) - - Show Bio

People have severely underestimated the centipede soldiers here, because of reasons like the GIF above.

That being said, the fully powered Danny here and that punch feat he did is a serious MVP here. With the rest of them, I think the Defenders have this.

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#20 Edited by _KingofLatveria (14027 posts) - - Show Bio

@greysentinel365:

I'm well aware. But Mike when under an inferior version of the Centipede serum could throw people similar distances (I couldn't find an acutal so sorry about it being a reaction)

both feats from Luke are ridiculously better

Even then the Centipede soldiers can easily do stuff like this

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I can see Luke or Jessica replicating this just fine

Danny has never bullet timed to my knowledge he's aim blocked. Also no he's not Zen mode here. Not what I meant.

This looks like bullet timing to me but its irrelevant either way

And watching the final Defenders fight back. Jess only fought the construction crew. And none of them tried any complex moves or sequences on her. Given that the rest of the mooks are in suits or construction gear I think it's safe to say they weren't ninjas.

she fought the guys in the hallway as well and this season she outskilled a military general with a taser

Matt vs Ward is highly debatable IMO. I don't see any reason to rate one over the other by more than a hairs breadth.

Matt vs Ward isn't debatable to me, and as mentioned earlier, Ward had to take care of a delicate syringe and had to hit a certain position in the centipede's neck as well

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#21 Edited by Greysentinel365 (3706 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria:

both feats from Luke are ridiculously better

Not by much. And the crate feat still beats Luke and Jess out.

I can see Luke or Jessica replicating this just fine

We know Jessica can't. And I'm curious as to what Luke's done to make you think he can.

she fought the guys in the hallway

Normal security guys in suits. Not ninjas. And she only punched 1, Had one exchange where she took a hit and another where she was blindside and launched herself into a wall to win.

Wow. 3 guys.

she outskilled a military general with a taser

I don't recall this. Which Ep was it I'll check it now.

Matt vs Ward isn't debatable to me, and as mentioned earlier, Ward had to take care of a delicate syringe and had to hit a certain position in the centipede's neck as well

Well it is to me. I even took the time to check the 5 page long Matt vs Ward thread and even there it's split with either taking it by a hairs breadth.

Ward had to take care of a delicate syringe and had to hit a certain position in the centipede's neck as well

At no point is Ward shown having to protect the syringe. And we already know Ward can't beat a Centipede soldier from his fights with them and Mike Peterson.

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#22 Edited by DSTREET45 (4664 posts) - - Show Bio

@greysentinel365 said:

I am genuinely confused how people think the defenders win this so cleanly.

It won't be cleanly but I think they could squeeze out a win if they get full knowledge on their opponents and not hold back.

Luke has their physicals but is more durable than they are and has pretty good pain tolerance. In addition to that, he's a former boxer with military training so he's actually a decent fighter, as shown when he went undefeated in the underground prison fights. Maybe the Centipede soldier is more skilled than he is on a technical level via hype, but given Luke's advantages on top of his skill, I think he could beat one in a tough fight.

Danny is more than capable of out-skilling/outmaneuvering one and could land a solid hit with his Iron Fist. Pretty sure that would at the very least rock the soldier if not actually KO him. Afterwards he could go help out anyone who's having trouble.

Matt, like Danny, could out-skill and out maneuver a soldier for a decent time. The only difference is that he can't put him down with brute force. However given that he has his billy club he could likely incap him by wrapping him up with the cable (which was stated to be damn near indestructible). Given Matt's advantages in speed, skill, and agility as well as having inhuman accuracy and timing, I could see him pulling it off. If not he gonna have to last long enough for help to arrive which I feel is possible given how long he lasted against Black Sky Elektra.

Jessica is the odd one out. I feel like I could make a solid case for her but it might take a lot of time and effort and even then I think I would be reaching at some points. She strong enough to contend with a CS strength and has decent durability but she can be hurt just as easily as Matt or Danny and lacks their level of speed and skill to even that advantage out. Haven't seen the second season yet so I can't say if her overall combat ability has improved or if it's just the same but I'm not confident that she could take one out on her own (in my original post I thought they were fighting 3 Centipede soldiers so she and Matt were sharing one). However she doesn't really have to, she just needs to hold out until someone, likely Danny, helps her out.

It'd be a tough fight but I'd back the Defenders.

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#23 Posted by Paytience (3777 posts) - - Show Bio

@greysentinel365:

I'm well aware. But Mike when under an inferior version of the Centipede serum could throw people similar distances (I couldn't find an acutal so sorry about it being a reaction)

both feats from Luke are ridiculously better

Even then the Centipede soldiers can easily do stuff like this

No Caption Provided

I can see Luke or Jessica replicating this just fine

Danny has never bullet timed to my knowledge he's aim blocked. Also no he's not Zen mode here. Not what I meant.

This looks like bullet timing to me but its irrelevant either way

And watching the final Defenders fight back. Jess only fought the construction crew. And none of them tried any complex moves or sequences on her. Given that the rest of the mooks are in suits or construction gear I think it's safe to say they weren't ninjas.

she fought the guys in the hallway as well and this season she outskilled a military general with a taser

Matt vs Ward is highly debatable IMO. I don't see any reason to rate one over the other by more than a hairs breadth.

Matt vs Ward isn't debatable to me, and as mentioned earlier, Ward had to take care of a delicate syringe and had to hit a certain position in the centipede's neck as well

No, he had shoved it in the centipede's mouth, and broke it by kneeing the Centipede in the jaw.

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#24 Posted by Paytience (3777 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria:

both feats from Luke are ridiculously better

Not by much. And the crate feat still beats Luke and Jess out.

I can see Luke or Jessica replicating this just fine

We know Jessica can't. And I'm curious as to what Luke's done to make you think he can.

she fought the guys in the hallway

Normal security guys in suits. Not ninjas. And she only punched 1, Had one exchange where she took a hit and another where she was blindside and launched herself into a wall to win.

Wow. 3 guys.

she outskilled a military general with a taser

I don't recall this. Which Ep was it I'll check it now.

Matt vs Ward isn't debatable to me, and as mentioned earlier, Ward had to take care of a delicate syringe and had to hit a certain position in the centipede's neck as well

Well it is to me. I even took the time to check the 5 page long Matt vs Ward thread and even there it's split with either taking it by a hairs breadth.

Ward had to take care of a delicate syringe and had to hit a certain position in the centipede's neck as well

At no point is Ward shown having to protect the syringe. And we already know Ward can't beat a Centipede soldier from his fights with them and Mike Peterson.

Ironic...since he has.

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#25 Edited by Greysentinel365 (3706 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience:

Ironic...since he has.

Clip it. Let's see.

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#26 Posted by Paytience (3777 posts) - - Show Bio
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#27 Posted by Paytience (3777 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, Danny isn't a bullet timer. Not even remotely. Danny...has literally been shot before.

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#28 Edited by Greysentinel365 (3706 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience: I knew you going to link that one.

Look ma, no guns.

Yeah just serum.

Let's break this down. Ward can't even stagger him with a clean punch to the face. The soldier just no sells it.

The only hits Ward was able to land that were worth a damn were when the soldier had his hand stuck in a car. The soldier still ragdolls him again despite said hand being stuck in the car.

Ward is consistently ragdolled and outmatched the whole fight. Only winning via a desperation tactic and a serum.

So no. Ward has never actually beaten a centipede soldier on his own via his own skills/physicals.

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#29 Posted by Paytience (3777 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience: I knew you going to link that one.

Look ma, no guns.

Yeah just serum.

Let's break this down. Ward can't even stagger him a punch to the face. The soldier just no sells it.

The only hits Ward was able to land that were worth a damn were when the soldier had his hand stuck in a car. The soldier still ragdolls him again despite said being stuck in the car.

Ward is consistently ragdolled and outmatched the whole fight. Only winning via a desperation tactic and a serum.

So no. Ward has never actually beaten a centipede soldier on his own via his own skills/physicals.

Danny has never beaten anybody of real note on his own through "skills and physicals". Danny get's the shit kicked out of him until he's cowering on the ground and then jumps out with a surprise hiya iron fist that only works half the time.
Daredevil got wrecked on no less than 3 occasions by someone with similar credentials to the centipedes before they received the serum.
Jessica Jones got hurt by a prison guard with a nightstick.
And Luke Cage faced one person with anything close to Centipede physicals and she knocked his ass out.

Any other questions? Or you wanna continue arguing about how the Defenders can't beat Grant Ward?

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#30 Posted by Greysentinel365 (3706 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience:

What point are you trying to make here?

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#31 Posted by Paytience (3777 posts) - - Show Bio
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#32 Edited by Greysentinel365 (3706 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience: Of course the Centipede's win. I have never argued anything but. Heck I had only three of them when I made the thread originally.

Why are we talking about Ward?

@firestormfate1919 said:

Defenders win this.

Luke Cage is pretty superior to any of the Centipede Soldiers, across the board, so he'll probably be able to take a couple on his own. Danny can use his speed to outskill the brutes, and his Fist should be able to one-shot them, though with it's charge-up time it might only be good for dropping one. Jessica got some solid strength feats in her series, I'm definitely confident she can take one or two. Matt could hang with them as well. Ward was able to hold his own, and Matt is more skilled H2H than Ward.

To which my response was. "No Ward really couldn't and no Matt isn't a lot more skilled." And it progressed from there.

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#33 Edited by TheOneWhoPullsTheStrings (1847 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience said:

Centipedes stomp. They've been put down by Deathlok, augmented night-night toxin, the Berserker staff which May use to drop a building on them, and the Destroyer gun. Defenders don't stand a chance.

So you think berserker staff > Chi punch that leveled at least a 25'x25' room? And casually blew other defenders out all at once with a lesser than that blow? It is far more than the output we have seen it took to hurt Centipedes. He lands that, and it will hurt them enough where the others who wouldn't be able to beat them normally would actually be able to get something done.

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#34 Posted by Paytience (3777 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience: Of course the Centipede's win. I have never argued anything but. Heck I had only three of them when I made the thread originally.

Why are we talking about Ward?

@firestormfate1919 said:

Defenders win this.

Luke Cage is pretty superior to any of the Centipede Soldiers, across the board, so he'll probably be able to take a couple on his own. Danny can use his speed to outskill the brutes, and his Fist should be able to one-shot them, though with it's charge-up time it might only be good for dropping one. Jessica got some solid strength feats in her series, I'm definitely confident she can take one or two. Matt could hang with them as well. Ward was able to hold his own, and Matt is more skilled H2H than Ward.

To which my response was. "No Ward really couldn't and no Matt isn't a lot more skilled." And it progressed from there.

Oh. Well...umm.

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#35 Posted by Greysentinel365 (3706 posts) - - Show Bio
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#36 Posted by Paytience (3777 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience said:

Centipedes stomp. They've been put down by Deathlok, augmented night-night toxin, the Berserker staff which May use to drop a building on them, and the Destroyer gun. Defenders don't stand a chance.

So you think berserker staff > Chi punch that leveled at least a 25'x25' room? And casually blew other defenders out all at once with a lesser than that blow? It is far more than the output we have seen it took to hurt Centipedes. He lands that, and it will hurt them enough where the others who wouldn't be able to beat them normally would actually be able to get something done.

The Berserker Staff that May used "TO DROP A BUILDING ON THEM>>>"
And it didn't level the room...you need to look up the meaning of that word, because you're doing it wrong. Also, half the people in the office were fine after that punch...remember, Harold kicked his ass right after this. Remember that...Harold kicking his ass? The Defenders all got up too. And he isn't going to land it. The Centipedes are going steam him before he ever focuses it...and he's landed like once where it wasn't a surprise attack...usually right after getting his ass kicked...which he can't afford to do here...because super strength.

If he can barely compete with normal cats and security guards...brutes in trucks...he's getting smoked by spec ops with super powers.

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#37 Posted by Paytience (3777 posts) - - Show Bio
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#38 Posted by AngelJax (8978 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience: To be fair, Dale had sprayed Jessica with mace and she was more bothered from the irritant in her eyes than Dale’s hits.

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#39 Posted by Paytience (3777 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax said:

@paytience: To be fair, Dale had sprayed Jessica with mace and she was more bothered from the irritant in her eyes than Dale’s hits.

She was bothered enough that she panicked and killed him.

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#40 Posted by AngelJax (8978 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience: First off, she couldn’t see and second, was in a situation where she had no other choice but to swing and defend herself.

....How does this fall back onto Jessica’s durability again? Maybe you should come back once the high wears off my guy.

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#41 Edited by TheOneWhoPullsTheStrings (1847 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience:

@paytience said:
@theonewhopullsthestrings said:
@paytience said:

Centipedes stomp. They've been put down by Deathlok, augmented night-night toxin, the Berserker staff which May use to drop a building on them, and the Destroyer gun. Defenders don't stand a chance.

So you think berserker staff > Chi punch that leveled at least a 25'x25' room? And casually blew other defenders out all at once with a lesser than that blow? It is far more than the output we have seen it took to hurt Centipedes. He lands that, and it will hurt them enough where the others who wouldn't be able to beat them normally would actually be able to get something done.

The Berserker Staff that May used "TO DROP A BUILDING ON THEM>>>"

And it didn't level the room...you need to look up the meaning of that word, because you're doing it wrong. Also, half the people in the office were fine after that punch...remember, Harold kicked his ass right after this. Remember that...Harold kicking his ass? The Defenders all got up too. And he isn't going to land it. The Centipedes are going steam him before he ever focuses it...and he's landed like once where it wasn't a surprise attack...usually right after getting his ass kicked...which he can't afford to do here...because super strength.

If he can barely compete with normal cats and security guards...brutes in trucks...he's getting smoked by spec ops with super powers.

You are hearing, but not listening. You're still missing the point. Everything you listed that was necessary to kill or beat them when it comes to pure power is still << Largest Chi Punch.

He CAN hurt them if he lands it. And he doesn't even need to directly land it on them due to AOE, that is the second point. And sure, it won't kill them all in one hit, of course people got back up (and you are overselling how much everyone was 'unaffected' by that hit) - but I even addressed that. Because what it would allow for that edge with the others giving them what they need...

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#42 Posted by Greysentinel365 (3706 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax: Hey, so apparently Jess fought a military general or something is S2? I asked the person who brought it up for an episode number and couldn't get one and I've combed through the season and couldn't find it.

You have any idea what they're talking about?

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#43 Posted by Amcu (9550 posts) - - Show Bio

From what I can recall of the Centipede soldiers I'm backing the Defenders.

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#44 Posted by _KingofLatveria (14027 posts) - - Show Bio

@greysentinel365:

Not by much. And the crate feat still beats Luke and Jess out.

not at all thats an empty 3 tonne crater thats nothing.

We know Jessica can't. And I'm curious as to what Luke's done to make you think he can. \

you think Jessica can't and Luke throwing his brother through a locked door and still flying at the same speed is still easily better. Jess stopping the momentum of a bus is also way better than the crate feat

Normal security guys in suits. Not ninjas. And she only punched 1, Had one exchange where she took a hit and another where she was blindside and launched herself into a wall to win.

Wow. 3 guys.

skill feats for the Centipede dudes? lol

I don't recall this. Which Ep was it I'll check it now.

episode 2, he tried to taser her she deflected it and threw him into a window and the way she fought Luke shows she's a pretty good street fighter. Just cause some master martial artist beat her who's over centuries old embarrased her doesn't mean she's skill less

Well it is to me. I even took the time to check the 5 page long Matt vs Ward thread and even there it's split with either taking it by a hairs breadth.

well Ward also didn't have any weapons, Matt with his batons will perform much better especially with the grappling hook

At no point is Ward shown having to protect the syringe. And we already know Ward can't beat a Centipede soldier from his fights with them and Mike Peterson

so...

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#45 Posted by AngelJax (8978 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax: Hey, so apparently Jess fought a military general or something is S2? I asked the person who brought it up for an episode number and couldn't get one and I've combed through the season and couldn't find it.

You have any idea what they're talking about?

The only person Jess fought with a teaser this season was Pryce Cheng. He was just another PI (though I am unsure if she tanks the discharge from the teaser here. You can see the electricity reaching out but I don't know if it actually touches her)

No Caption Provided

I don't know where the guy got Military General from. The only time Jessica had encountered a person with any skill this season, he was a correctional facility officer and he sprayed Jess with mace just before so it wasn't really a fair fight.

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#46 Edited by Greysentinel365 (3706 posts) - - Show Bio

@_kingoflatveria:

not at all thats an empty 3 tonne crater thats nothing.

Yet Luke and Jess have nothing to match that.

Luke throwing his brother through a locked door and still flying at the same speed is still easily better.

Not really no.

skill feats for the Centipede dudes? lol

Beating down Melinda May and Grant Ward with no issue.

Loading Video...

episode 2, he tried to taser her she deflected it and threw him into a window and the way she fought Luke shows she's a pretty good street fighter

All I remember happening in Ep 2 is the guy in a wheelchair laying her down and getting her in a hold. I mean she fought the PI guy in Ep 1. But that was 1 cheapshot after tanking a taser. Then when bloodied and could barely stand threw 1 half assed punch.

Jess barely held out against a holding back Luke Cage. Street fighting won't do her any good here.

Just cause some master martial artist beat her who's over centuries old embarrased her doesn't mean she's skill less

Random security guards were able to land blows on her. The random guy the hand had watching her was able to land consistent strikes on her.

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#47 Edited by Greysentinel365 (3706 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax: The PI had a military background. But it wasn't a fight really. Yeah I have no idea where he got a general from.

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#48 Posted by AngelJax (8978 posts) - - Show Bio

@greysentinel365: Must've missed that exposition. Was it said how extensive his background in the military was?

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#49 Posted by Greysentinel365 (3706 posts) - - Show Bio

@angeljax: Just that he went on a bunch of missions with the guy that Jess's mum kills. He has no H2H feats or physical showings of note.

So I have no idea why he was even brought up.

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#50 Posted by The_Magister (9592 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly, backing the Centipede Soldiers. They can compete with Luke/Jessica physically and are elite spec-ops on top of that.

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