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#1 Posted by jashro44 (53197 posts) - - Show Bio
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#2 Posted by lubub55 (12946 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is Catman above Catwoman?

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#3 Posted by jashro44 (53197 posts) - - Show Bio

@lubub55 said:

Why is Catman above Catwoman?

Because he is more skilled. IIRC Cat woman lost to Tim Drake whereas Blake was beating Tim when they fought.

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#4 Edited by deactivated-5a89ca5697052 (8063 posts) - - Show Bio

Can win rounds 1-4 . Not sure about 5-6.

Stops at Catwoman for sure.

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#5 Edited by Black_Arrow (10282 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at Zsasz.

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#6 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27957 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:
@lubub55 said:

Why is Catman above Catwoman?

Because he is more skilled. IIRC Cat woman lost to Tim Drake whereas Blake was beating Tim when they fought.

When did she lose to Tim Drake? She basically stomped him twice, granted at a younger age.

And not sure where you're getting this with Catman but:

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#7 Posted by jashro44 (53197 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: Wasn't that catman before he went to Africa and lived among lions? Even his official DC biography referred to him as a loser before he lived with the lions IIRC. The only time I recall Selina stomping Tim was during Hush but that fight was staged. Tim beat cat woman during robin #27.

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#8 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27957 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@anthp2000: Wasn't that catman before he went to Africa and lived among lions? Even his official DC biography referred to him as a loser before he lived with the lions IIRC. The only time I recall Selina stomping Tim was during Hush but that fight was staged. Tim beat cat woman during robin #27.

Uh, I don't remember but I'm not sure. Possibly.

Eh, she stomped him in her solo run too.

It was staged but I don't think there's a reason for him to get stomped. Bruce clearly didn't believe he could take her either.

Do you have those scans from Robin's run? Never seen those.

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#9 Edited by Sy8000 (35510 posts) - - Show Bio

Could stop at Zsasz. Didn't Onomonopeia have crazy pain tolerance? I don't know Ox's feats but there's no way he's beating Catwoman.

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#10 Posted by nickzambuto (29288 posts) - - Show Bio

Rorschach

Chameleon

Obviously Matt can literally take them together and win easily.

Cyclops (No powers)

This is when it gets interesting, and I think Cyclops should be way higher up. Ultimately it has to be Daredevil on account of him being much more focused purely on martial arts, with his enhanced senses and great agility giving him definitive advantages that Cyclops can't match, but I admit, beating a group of men with his eyes closed, and being somewhat relative to Wolverine, make Scott a great threat to Matt, when you add in his amazing tactical abilities.

Mr. Zsasz

He might be able to touch Matt just because he's so wild, but he's obviously not anywhere near as skilled (he beat Damian because Damian is inexperienced. Damian came back and won their next fight, an irrelevant comparison to Daredevil), and with the armor, getting tagged by a knife wouldn't really matter anyway.

Catwoman

Catman

People are going to try and play them off as being relative to Batman somehow when they so obviously are not. If anyone tells me that Catwoman can singlehandedly fight two immortal, superhuman, ancient grandmaster martial artists at the same time and actually kick their asses, I might explode.

Punisher (armed with a knife)

Again, I don't care if Punisher has touched comic book Daredevil. He's obviously not as skilled as either Matt, he gets by on experience and sheer grit, so even though I buy his battle with MCU Daredevil will be bloody and agonizing, even if it goes the distance, Frank doesn't have nearly enough of an advantage in sheer damage soak to win just based off that, not when Matt got cut to ribbons by Nobu and still nearly killed Kingpin.

Batroc

This one is interesting. My answer depends on how seriously you take Batroc outskilling Wolverine a few years ago.

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#11 Posted by jashro44 (53197 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@anthp2000: Wasn't that catman before he went to Africa and lived among lions? Even his official DC biography referred to him as a loser before he lived with the lions IIRC. The only time I recall Selina stomping Tim was during Hush but that fight was staged. Tim beat cat woman during robin #27.

Uh, I don't remember but I'm not sure. Possibly.

Eh, she stomped him in her solo run too.

It was staged but I don't think there's a reason for him to get stomped. Bruce clearly didn't believe he could take her either.

Do you have those scans from Robin's run? Never seen those.

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I'd have to reread HUsh to remember what your referring to about Bruce thinking Tim couldn't beat her.

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#12 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27957 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Thanx. Well Hush is more on date tbh. Their fight at the museum seemed more of actual combat anyway.

He said "I could have taken her" and Bruce told him to tell her that.

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#13 Posted by ILostTheKey (993 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops hard at 3

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#14 Posted by Morpheus_ (34517 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: Non canon Catman version. Almost everything pre-Secret Six has been retconned out due to Zero Hour, and well, Gail Simone. Case in point, in that Legends of the Dark Knight story Catman is a serial killer of women, which has not been acknowledged before or after.

I don't understand why training with lions suddenly makes him able to fight Batman, stomp Red Robin and put up a fight against Bronze Tiger, but hey, Gail Simone. She is brilliant but power levels are usually distorted in her books.

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#15 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27957 posts) - - Show Bio

@morpheus_: They really messed up with Catman then... Lol

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#16 Posted by Morpheus_ (34517 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: Checked Bane: Conquest #5 yet? I don't want you getting an aneurism. :P

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#17 Posted by BlackLegRaph (5481 posts) - - Show Bio

Stops at Onomatopoeia. I believe he has greater pain tolerance.

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#18 Posted by ANTHP2000 (27957 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by Morpheus_ (34517 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Posted by AllStarSuperman (43256 posts) - - Show Bio

Catwoman

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#21 Posted by jashro44 (53197 posts) - - Show Bio


This one is interesting. My answer depends on how seriously you take Batroc outskilling Wolverine a few years ago.

Just a response to this part but the whole point of killable was that wolverine didn't know how to fight because he spent years relying on his healing factor. Even in the final battle with sabretooth wolverine took off his armor and soaked up Creeds hits and some how endured more damage than sabretooth (which is bull shit).

One of the many reasons Paul Cornells wolverine run is arguably the worst comic run of all time.

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#22 Posted by jayc1324 (26431 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: I think you are underselling Catwoman a little bit. "Immortal, superhuman, ancient grandmaster martial artists" really means nothing, especially when compared to comic book characters. Bakuto and Murakami (assuming you mean them) would not even pass for peak human in DC, and neither would Matt. Catwoman meanwhile has defeated Tim Drake, Wildcat, and Hush. Her only good feats aren't just being able to tag Batman.

Also, I don't really know a lot about Comic Punisher but as an honest question, do you think he is better than MCU Punisher? Because Matt couldn't even really beat him decisively.