MCU: Daisy Johnson Vs Black Widow

Daisy

Daisy should win in cqc. Widow likely takes it from the range.

Daisy

Black Widow takes her in hand to hand.

Daisy tbh

daisy has been handicapped here. But because of her recent feats, i dont see how she can lose.

Daisy wins, she's very adept at mixing H2H with her powers seamlessly, and 220 lbs of force is a lot. While Natasha still takes a narrow edge in pure skill, Daisy's powers are gonna allow her to keep Widow from gaining any traction and body her if necessary.

@anthp2000 thoughts?

@angeljax: In terms of h2h, it's a lot easier to argue for Widow now imo.

I have 5 criteria in determining skill in live action (actually gonna make a blog about it when I get back full time): statements, superhuman fights, fodder wrecking scenes, fights against established opponents and choreography. Widow excels at pretty much everything at this point. She's got 2 incredibly impressive performances against superhumans with the Black Order (these guys were far above Cap), at least 2+ very impressive fodder scenes (I'd only have Elektra's ninja feat and May be the primitives above the interrogation scene) and a very good fight against an established peak human in Hawkeye. Plus, some stuff I found in interviews talking about her fighting style, her stunt double said that she has "every fighting style" referring to her fights in CW being difficult to choreograph, likely implying she's knowledgeable in all forms of h2h. As for choreography, I find hers amazing.

Daisy has come a long way in skill too. Her performance against Sinara clearly shows she's on the same tier as May at this point, and her elevator showing with the Kree still showed great use of monmentum and crowd control, which translates well in a 1 on 1 against another peak human. Plus, she held her own against Hive, and he was ridiculous physically. Also, did she fight the watchdogs in the prison with broken arms? Cause that's crazy. However, if you put her against the same challenges Natasha was put in in IW as well as her first fight with Clint in TA, I don't see her doing as well.

In terms of physicals, I give Daisy a good edge in durability. Natasha's no glass canon, but Daisy is bolderline enhansed (I can see your theory about the inhumans too it does make sense). With strength, I think that while Daisy is a bit stronger, Natasha has at least as much striking output in no small part through technique, similar to how May matches her beasty opponents.

Without powers, I'd give Widow a 7/10 win in melee. With powers, Quake is a solid mid tier, she'd fodderise Nat 1 on 1, gear or not.

Though Daisy keeps getting better and I haven't caught up with the series since Ruby debuted and sliced down Yo-Yo's arms.

quake murders

@dami24434: How dare you Natasha held Her own against proxima midnight twice buff said

Natasha's gotten better since IW and has showings to decisively put her on par with AoS characters now that she got showings/definitive wins over superhumans.

I'd still back Daisy in this fight though. Right now, I have Widow slightly better than Ward. Daisy might lack a bit in skill, but more than makes up for it in strength, striking, durability, endurance and efficiency. It's a really good fight and I see the winners switching back and forth depending on the day.

Black Widow Wins

Daisy.

Even after IW, Daisy still has an advantage in terms of raw feats. However, if this fight actually went down, I can’t picture Widow losing. Nat was an Avenger before Daisy even learned to throw a punch, and while they’re clearly closer than just experience/training time would suggest, having Daisy outright surpass someone like Widow (who’s the elite of the organization that produced Daisy) doesn’t make sense. I’ve generally seen Widow as comparable to May, and by this same logic I don’t think Daisy would actually beat May despite her showings being more impressive in some respects

Daisy stomps with her powers, even if limited like in the OP. Without powers, it is significantly closer, but I think Daisy still wins somewhat comfortably considering the significant physical edge she has and since Nat has no gear.

@arcus1: You could make a solid case for Daisy matching May by feats and even by depiction/portrayal now. And I don't think being an Avenger has much to do with being a better h2h fighter. May isn't an Avenger, but she is SHIELD's best h2h combatant in terms of skill (by both feats and statements). Daisy was trained by Ward and May, and she is shown to be their peer at this point honestly. Widow might be comparable to May, but the general intent is that May is her superior as a soldier and martial artist. If she wasn't, that wouldn't make any sense for her character and would make May redundant in the MCU. We have statements that support this, with May having more black belts than Natasha and also being the most lethal agent SHIELD's ever seen. I feel like that's pretty cut and dry, it's clear that May is better than Nat in pure combat.

And with Daisy's new durability feat, Natasha literally can't hurt her.

Daisy wins with and without her powers.

Without her powers she already surpassed May and Ward in combat and took out two Kree that weight over 200lb.

With her powers after the Centipede Serum her DNA now has the Super Soldier Serum, same one Steve Rogers and Bucky have.

Natasha wins in strict melee. Daisy's good, but she's not there yet, nor is she as good as May by any means.

Daisy beats her down decisively with her powers, limited or not.

Natasha has no feats that puts her on Daisy's level.

Still Daisy

Daisy ftw

Daisy doesn't need her powers. She's more skilled.

Skye probably wins due to physicals. I don't think she's necessarily more skilled though.

Quake in a horrible mismatch this thread has gone on long enough.

Well Daisy is dating Logan Paul soooooo...

I agree with this... I don't think Daisy is as skilled as May tho, but she has better physicals... and being an Avenger does not mean Nat is the best... May was offered to be part of the initiative as well, and defeated Scarlotti, who almost killed Barton (who can match Romanoff tho he might end losing) in he past (and I assume that, due to Scarlotti's fights portrayed were close range fights, his fight against Clint was under the same close range conditions)...

ummm I don't think so... she demonstrated to be in that level of greatness and physicals, but she is still behind May talking about combat (considering May also took down 2 Kree warriors with single close range blows... Coulson and Deke were doing 0 against them, and it was until May came in that she defeated the one Kree they were having problems with, while Daisy relied on her powers against one of the Kree)... she is not even better than Bobbi, who in my point of view, has had even better hitting feats (example being sending Vin-Tak flying with a kick)... even May accomplished to give as great hitting strength when fighting Sinara (May sent Sinara go various steps back with a kick, just as the distance Daisy was kicking Sinara)...

I do think Daisy is stronger than May tho, but May compensates with being faster and more skilled, something Romanoff would do as well in H2H, making her way through to win (in Universe)...

With the CS Daisy wrecks tho...

Agree... in Universe, May, as @the_magister said, is stated to be the best H2H fighter S.H.I.E.L.D has, and even her feats back what's been said, while Nat is meant to be the better overall agent, being almost as good H2H combatant (even tho she lacks feats), but a better spy, better at stealth and missions... in combat, Nat should be a close second or third to May and Bobbi as well H2H wise... in Universe Romanoff should take Daisy, with high difficulty tho... by feats, Daisy should have it tho...

With her powers and Serum, Nat has no way of toughing Daisy... not even with her tech...

@phoenixdiamond616: Changed my opinions vastly since then. Nat is highly skilled. Daisy edges her out in a great fight.

Daisy. Superior stats, better skill. Better feats all around.

Natasha hand to hand in a solid fight. Daisy stomps with her powers.

May and Widow are roughly on the same level and yet May gave Sinara a very goodfight with a massive health disadvantage but Daisy with her powers almost lost to Sinara and Daisy still stomps Natasha !??? People must really hate Widow or Love Daisy

@the_magister: What better skill ????

Natasha held her own against Proxima midnight and May could not even fight Lorelei whose on the same level as Proxima and Daisy is below May what does that show us Widow is clearly above May and Daisy

They aren't on the same level. Lorelei is considerably above Proxima. I think May vs Nat is a very good fight, but May would beat her.

Also, Daisy > May by feats.

@the_magister: I don't thinks that Lorelei is above Proxima because Midnight actually has better durability/Skill/Speed and a deadly weapon that could possible oneshot Lorelei and a don't think May or Daisy could replicate Natasha showing against Proxima midnight

Daisy due to powers.

Daisy solos May, Natasha, Ward, Bobbi, and Clint.

Quake stomps

Bump

Quake still wrecks. This movie only cemented Nats placing.

Daisy was closer to Bobbi at the end of the series, she beats Widow in a good fight.

I really wish we had gotten that Daisy vs Ben fight the show seemed to be building towards to see how Daisy would deal with a hax combat ability like precog. I still think Nat’s final showing against Taskmaster is high tier and I don’t see many replicating it. Nat may hold the ever so slight edge in raw skill but Daisy isn’t far behind behind if that’s case and she holds the edge in basically everything else that matters. I’d back Daisy is a slobberknocker.

Daisy.