It took Tony quite a while to copy the fighting style, and I could see the Defender taking him out before then. A fully powered chi punch followed by Luke Cage wailing on him should mess Tony up.
As for the big guns, Daredevil can easily dodge the missile, and Luke can tank it like he tanked the bar explosion in JJ.
Before Tony finally beat him, Bucky was doing quite well. He overpowered and crushed Tony's arm, traded punches with him, and started ripping out his arc-reactor. If Tony was able to copy the fighting style so quickly, he would have done it then.
Then, after Bucky was lying on the floor unconscious, Steve was the only thing in between Tony and his revenge. That didn't stop Cap from wrecking him, and it took Tony lots of time to copy his style. My argument is that the Defender can take Tony out much quicker than Cap, due to the combination of Daredevil's skill, Luke's strength and durability, and the Iron Fist.
@bladeoffury: The chi punch sometimes takes a long time to charge too and when Rand isn't struggling to summon it, Elektra tanked his chi punch just fine. It took his A.I. seven seconds to scan Cap's fight style. I think he'll last a bit longer than you think. Also, I'd argue that a missile that can topple a structure at least one hundred feet high and which probably weighed dozens of tons is more impressive than an explosion which blew up a bar or small Chinese restaurant. However, even if I conceded on that part, Iron Man has several of those missiles so I doubt he'd need more than 2. Missiles have an AoE that cannot be dodged.
Iron Man. Let's not forget he fought Cap and Bucky in a closed environment which let them take out his flight. In an ordinary environment Tony flies out of range and bombs it. Even in that armor he had missiles that blew up planes.
Even without the scanning of Cap's fighting style Iron Man was still stomping Steve. The only reason Iron Man ended up bloodied and defeated was because Captain America and the Winter Soldier were saving one another in the nick of time. Just look at how it was going between Cap and Tony before Bucky's interference:
And when Bucky was on his own shortly after that scene (since Tony briefly incapacitated Steve with a single repulsor blast), the Winter Soldier became a cripple and was out of the fight for the next 5 minutes:
This was a constant theme throughout that fight and the idea that Iron Man is below either of them is laughable.
Scanning their fighting patterns seems like a bit of a NLF given the sheer quantity of styles Danny and Matt know (Danny stated he mastered literally everything at K'un L'un; I'm guessing that's a hell of a lot), and that they are both individually more skilled than Cap, combined they'd be a different beast entirely. I also wonder if the A.I. didn't have far more information to draw from about Cap, given how long Tony was fighting at his side.
Tony should win anyway as long as he doesn't mess around.
Iron Man. Let's not forget he fought Cap and Bucky in a closed environment which let them take out his flight. In an ordinary environment Tony flies out of range and bombs it. Even in that armor he had missiles that blew up planes.
This
Also, people seem to forget all the circumstances that prevented Tony from stomping them, the most important one being plot, because we all know that feat-wise he´d crush them.
The chi punch sometimes takes a long time to charge too
In the Defenders, Danny got much better at controlling his chi, and could summon it without problem. Here is an example, where it takes him no time at all:
and when Rand isn't struggling to summon it, Elektra tanked his chi punch just fine.
Isn't that a feat for Elektra?
Elektra never continued fighting after getting hit, she always fled, meaning that she was seriously hurt
Danny can control the strength of his chi punch. When he is facing weaker opponents, like humans, he doesn't go full out. When he is facing people like Luke Cage, he unleashes his full force, which is visibly much more powerful. Tony is a guy in a metal suit, so Danny will not hesitate to use the chi to the fullest.
This isn't just Danny's fist here. The fist is also combined with Luke's/Jessica's strength, which will make the punch multiple times more powerful. Luke can K.O. men with light taps on the head and crumple steel like paper.
It took his A.I. seven seconds to scan Cap's fight style. I think he'll last a bit longer than you think.
Yes, but Cap was beating on him for quite a while before he began the scan. Also, Tony must have had some intel on Cap from earlier, but Daredevil and Iron Fist are completely foreign to him. Plus, they can switch between fighting styles, they both know numerous different ones.
Also, I'd argue that a missile that can topple a structure at least one hundred feet high and which probably weighed dozens of tons is more impressive than an explosion which blew up a bar or small Chinese restaurant.
Even if the structure was a million feet tall, you only need a much smaller amount of force to destabilize and topple it.
In the Defenders, Danny got much better at controlling his chi, and could summon it without problem. Here is an example, where it takes him no time at all:
And not 4 minutes before he struck Elektra, he was struggling to summon it. Luckily Luke Cage arrived to save him. It's inconsistent.
Isn't that a feat for Elektra?
Yes, but what durability feats does a street level ninja like her have? I don't think she has much, so if she could take it just fine then I'm pretty sure Iron Man could too. Unless you think she's more durable than him?
Elektra never continued fighting after getting hit, she always fled, meaning that she was seriously hurt
There is no evidence that she was seriously hurt at all. She was basically just BFR'd. IIRC, they didn't stick around to wait for her to come back either.
Danny can control the strength of his chi punch. When he is facing weaker opponents, like humans, he doesn't go full out. When he is facing people like Luke Cage, he unleashes his full force, which is visibly much more powerful. Tony is a guy in a metal suit, so Danny will not hesitate to use the chi to the fullest.
I guess that's true. Well, Iron Man is, at the very least, in Luke Cage's durability level and he also tanked it just fine twice. The first time he got sent flying and it hurt him, but he got right back up almost immediately.
This isn't just Danny's fist here. The fist is also combined with Luke's/Jessica's strength, which will make the punch multiple times more powerful. Luke can K.O. men with light taps on the head and crumple steel like paper.
Even if he couldn't take their hits, which I'm fairly confident he could, the OP doesn't have this scenario in a closed off setting like in Civil War. What's going to counter this strategy?
He also still has the pettawatt lasers which did this:
Either way though, I don't think the OP meant to combine their strength. Composite means all feats and abilities can be used. If someone said composite Iron Man I wouldn't say he has the combined strength of all his previous suits.
Yes, but Cap was beating on him for quite a while before he began the scan. Also, Tony must have had some intel on Cap from earlier, but Daredevil and Iron Fist are completely foreign to him. Plus, they can switch between fighting styles, they both know numerous different ones.
The fact that he lasted so long without taking any damage should say something in and of itself, but there were extenuating circumstances in that instance. He was trying to avoid Steve as much as possible so he could take down Bucky, so just because he didn't immediately lead with that strategy or did it later instead of sooner that doesn't mean he won't do it until it's too late against the Composite Defenders.
Even if the structure was a million feet tall, you only need a much smaller amount of force to destabilize and topple it.
@bladeoffury: Tony didn’t use the copy fight style because there was 2 people on him, Bucky was only doing “well” because Steve was helping. Without Steve, Bucky would have been beaten a lot easier.
Max power Iron fist (crumpled building floor one) would definitely screw up the armor. I'd wager it's hit about as hard as scarlet witch smashing cars into Iron man.
Strength wise they shoukd be able to annoy Tony, albeit do no damage.
Durability wise they can take a few repulsors, but none of the more serious stuff.
If they fought in the same setting as Civil War and Tony was only trying to incapacitate they could have a prolonged fight. Otherwise Tony stomps via shooting them...
Composite defender would still get handle by the Cap as well.
Iron Man stomps. He could've killed Cap or Bucky if he wanted to. The only reason he didn't was because he was trying not to to do any serious damage to Cap because he wasn't the one he wanted to hurt.
Iron Man was also just full of rage and thinking with his fists and not with his brain. Had he calmed down and regained self control he would've taken them out no problem.
Luke gives them the stats to overpower the armor and tank its attacks, Danny gives them the damage output to put it down and Matt gives them the agility and melee skill to dance around it.
Scanning their fighting patterns seems like a bit of a NLF given the sheer quantity of styles Danny and Matt know (Danny stated he mastered literally everything at K'un L'un; I'm guessing that's a hell of a lot), and that theyare both individually more skilled than Cap, combined they'd be a different beast entirely. I also wonder if the A.I. didn't have far more information to draw from about Cap, given how long Tony was fighting at his side.
Tony should win anyway as long as he doesn't mess around.
I wouldn't say more skilled. I would put people like Bobbi Morse and Melinda May above them in skill. Cap was trained by the same people, and he has an enhanced brain allowing him to learn a lot much more efficiently and faster.
Luke gives them the stats to overpower the armor and tank its attacks, Danny gives them the damage output to put it down and Matt gives them the agility and melee skill to dance around it.
Jessica, is well she's Jessica
How exactly will he overpower Iron Man? Iron Man has the advantage in stats. He can also analyze their fight pattern. Plus his suit gives him better reflexes and makes him as fast as Captain America, if not faster.
@hulkbusterx9: Bucky overpowered the suit both with his normal arm and his metal arm. Stark might have better durability, but that's about it. Stark tagged Steve like once every about 7 hits Steve landed on him. He's not faster than Steve by any means, Matt has better combat speed than Steve anyways.
@hulkbusterx9: Bucky overpowered the suit both with his normal arm and his metal arm. Stark might have better durability, but that's about it. Stark tagged Steve like once every about 7 hits Steve landed on him. He's not faster than Steve by any means, Matt has better combat speed than Steve anyways.
A feat for Bucky's metal arm. All he did with his normal arm was turn Iron Man's head against the wall. As soon as he analyzed his fight pattern he became faster.
How does he have better combat speed? The entire Defenders team was getting rag dolled by Elektra, who Cap would curb stomp. Cap and Winter soldier make a kickass team, and that is why they were going toe to toe with Iron Man. Lets be honest here and cut the wank. The Defenders, composite or not, are a bunch of street fighters that have no business going up against one of the most powerful Avengers.
A feat for Bucky's metal arm. All he did with his normal arm was turn Iron Man's head against the wall.
I wasn't referring to that, I was referring when he did this
you're hanging onto this analyzing fight patterns thing. Stark only did that several minutes into their fight. Stark isn't gonna last that long, and while he's analyzing their fight pattern The Defender is gonna be spraying him with repeated Iron Fists.
How does he have better combat speed? The entire Defenders team was getting rag dolled by Elektra, who Cap would curb stomp. Cap and Winter soldier make a kickass team, and that is why they were going toe to toe with Iron Man. Lets be honest here and cut the wank.
his fight with Black Sky, Steve isn't going that long without getting tagged by an opponent of that caliber wielding two katanas granting massive reach advantage. Elektra treating the defenders the way she did is a feat for Elektra, Steve and her dont scale in any way. Elektra only stalled them, she lost the fight anyways so I have no idea where you're going with this. Are we gonna forget the part where Steve practically stomped him when it came to close quarters? Here I'll remind you - "You can't beat him hand to hand"
The Defenders, composite or not, are a bunch of street fighters that have no business going up against one of the most powerful Avengers.
oh you mean how Steve and Bucky both individually held their own against "one of the most powerful Avengers". The CW Suit was pathetic in comparison to Stark's other suits. Put something like the Mark 3 against a composite Defender and it'd get stomped in 5 seconds or less.
I wasn't referring to that, I was referring when he did this
He is a super soldier, and super soldiers can do things like this:
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you're hanging onto this analyzing fight patterns thing. Stark only did that several minutes into their fight. Star isn't gonna last that long, and while he's analyzing their fight pattern The Defender is gonna be spraying him with repeated Iron Fists.
His suit is more durable than cage, and Cage can tank Iron fists no problem. ''spraying him with repeated Iron Fists'' because he has done something like that before.
his fight with Black Sky, Steve isn't going that long without getting tagged by an opponent of that caliber. Elektra treating the defenders the way she did is a feat for Elektra and Steve and her dont scale in any way. Elektra only stalled them she lost the fight anyways so I have no idea where you're going with this. Are we gonna forget the part where Steve practically stomped him when it came to close quarters? Here I'll remind you - "You can't beat him hand to hand"
You just contradicted yourself. First you say Cap doesn't scale from Elektra, then you bring up Friday quote and how he can't beat Steve in close quarters, even with all his gear. How exactly does that not scale from Elektra? Then right after that, he analyzes his fight pattern.
oh you mean how Steve and Bucky both individually held their own against "one of the most powerful Avengers". The CW Suit was pathetic in comparison to Stark's other suits. Put something like the Mark 3 against a composite Defender and it'd get stomped in 5 seconds or less.
Like I said before, 2 skilled, conditioned and heavily experienced super soldiers make a kickass team, and them holding their own against Iron Man speaks volumes of them. Iron Man would've ultimately won, but they won through plot victory.
Dude I'm not watching 9 minutes of garble - Ik Steve's feats, Luke is stronger at the very least on the same calibre. If Bucky can overpower him like that Luke will do just the same.
His suit is more durable than cage, and Cage can tank Iron fists no problem. ''spraying him with repeated Iron Fists'' because he has done something like that before.
Luke can't tank Iron Fists no problem, the only time he took one no problem was an extremely low end one from Danny where he arguably wasn't trying to hurt him badly. The other two times he hit him with Iron Fists they stunned him and they hurt and Danny is gonna land repeated hits on Stark, not just one.
I don't subscribe to the notion that Stark is more durable than Luke anyways.
You just contradicted yourself. First you say Cap doesn't scale from Elektra, then you bring up Friday quote and how he can't beat Steve in close quarters, even with all his gear. How exactly does that not scale from Elektra? Then right after that, he analyzes his fight pattern.
Elektra beating the Defenders and Cap fighting Iron Man are two totally different topics, explain to me how I contradicted myself. Please.
I already replied to Cap and Bucky vs Stark, He didn't have a chance against Steve when it came down to melee alone. Bucky isn't as good as Steve when it comes to melee.
Dude I'm not watching 9 minutes of garble - Ik Steve's feats, Luke is stronger at the very least on the same calibre. If Bucky can overpower him like that Luke will do just the same.
I gave you feats, but you not seeing how strong Cap would have to be to pull them of is on you. Good for him, I don't care. Iron Man is still the physically superior. And he didn't ''overpower'' Iron Man, he simply pushed his arm upward. If I pushed Dwayne Johnsons arm upward while he is pushing down with that same arm, does that mean i'm stronger?
Luke can't tank Iron Fists no problem, the only time he took one no problem was an extremely low end one from Danny where he arguably wasn't trying to hurt him badly. The other two times he hit him with Iron Fists they stunned him and they hurt and Danny is gonna land repeated hits on Stark, not just one.
I don't subscribe to the notion that Stark is more durable than Luke anyways.
They didn't hurt him badly. The first one gave him a hurt jaw, and the second one he got up and was fine. Maybe sore, but mostly fine. And Danny looked pretty mad when he hit Luke both times. He has never just sat there and repeatedly hit an opponent, so don't say he will this time. Most of the time he gets a couple hits with it, depending on how good his chi is at the time. Iron Man's armor is at least as durable as Luke. To say otherwise is laughable.
Elektra beating the Defenders and Cap fighting Iron Man are two totally different topics, explain to me how I contradicted myself. Please.
I already replied to Cap and Bucky vs Stark, He didn't have a chance against Steve when it came down to melee alone.
First you say Cap doesn't scale from Elektra, but then you bring up the quote about how Stark, one of the most powerful Avengers mind you, can't beat Cap h2h, even with all his gear. But somehow that doesn't compare to Elektra rag dolling the Defenders? Ok. I find it hard to picture Elektra lasting in a fight with Iron Man. Cap has the clear advantage of strength compared to Elektra. I even gave you the proof but you decided not to watch it. Cap can do anything Elektra can based on his past feats.
Scanning their fighting patterns seems like a bit of a NLF given the sheer quantity of styles Danny and Matt know (Danny stated he mastered literally everything at K'un L'un; I'm guessing that's a hell of a lot), and that theyare both individually more skilled than Cap, combined they'd be a different beast entirely. I also wonder if the A.I. didn't have far more information to draw from about Cap, given how long Tony was fighting at his side.
Tony should win anyway as long as he doesn't mess around.
I wouldn't say more skilled. I would put people like Bobbi Morse and Melinda May above them in skill. Cap was trained by the same people, and he has an enhanced brain allowing him to learn a lot much more efficiently and faster.
And Cap has feats to compare? Simple speculation doesn't matter.
Plus Elektra beat the Defenders one time with a lot of context. Danny was out cold due to Stick's gas, Luke was weakened from it, Matt did not have his armor on, and Jessica's durability shows vary wildly.
And considering every other fight they had in the series, Elektra outright stomping them in one fight while losing or being at the losing end of the other 3 just reeks of PIS.
Although, he honestly probably doesn't even need it if he's willing to pull out the big guns:
How would a missile that only damaged a section of a metal pillar drop someone who has Luke's durability + DD's damage soak and pain tolerance + Jessica's healing? Even more difficult if he's wearing DD's armor. That is, if it tagged him.
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