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#1 Edited by Subline (7024 posts) - - Show Bio
"I'm not the one who dies... I'm the one who does the killing."

VS

"Join SHIELD. Travel to exotic, distant lands; meet exciting, unusual people - and kill them."

Rules:

  • Hand to Hand Only.
  • In Character.
  • No Prep.
  • Takes place here.

START ON OPPOSITE ENDS BEHIND COVER

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#3 Posted by ANTHP2000 (25886 posts) - - Show Bio

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaai

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#4 Posted by IndomitableRegal (15698 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah...I already gave my opinion on this match-up in another thread, so I'm gonna skip this.

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#5 Posted by Kevd4wg (12522 posts) - - Show Bio

Snare

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#6 Posted by geekryan (4272 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V. For the voting period only, not after every post.

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#7 Posted by deactivated-5c830d4e319e6 (4952 posts) - - Show Bio

T4V.

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#8 Posted by Subline (7024 posts) - - Show Bio
@geekryan said:

T4V. For the voting period only, not after every post.

Thanks for clarifying.

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#9 Posted by ANTHP2000 (25886 posts) - - Show Bio

@subline said:
@geekryan said:

T4V. For the voting period only, not after every post.

Thanks for clarifying.

Which they shouldn't have to...

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#10 Posted by Subline (7024 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000: I was joking. Like I said I only tag people who say "Tag" or "TAEP".

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#11 Posted by ANTHP2000 (25886 posts) - - Show Bio

@subline said:

@anthp2000: I was joking. Like I said I only tag people who say "Tag" or "TAEP".

That's the problem you foolish Lime

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#12 Posted by Kevd4wg (12522 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag, which doesn't mean after every post

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#13 Posted by blackspidey2099 (6525 posts) - - Show Bio

@kevd4wg said:

Tag, which doesn't mean after every post

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#14 Posted by JSDoctor (1499 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag, after every post and for voting.

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#15 Posted by deactivated-5c6c427da31ab (357 posts) - - Show Bio

Tag

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#17 Posted by Paytience (4746 posts) - - Show Bio

People are complaining about a cav not being done a battle thread? Go figure.

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#18 Posted by deactivated-5c917f846ef0b (1264 posts) - - Show Bio

Lance Hunter

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Bio/Pedigree

Lance Hunter was a former field agent for SHIELD, and a lieutenant working for the SAS. He was stated by Coulson to be one of SHEILD's best agents after he left the agency and has shown superlative skills in a multitude of different combat fields.

-> Strength

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In the sections above I focused on Hunter's skill in combat as well as some physical feats that occurred during his combat scenes. The feat is above is honestly one of the best I've seen for LA peak humans. Hunter kicks open a locked door for a safe house while strolling through. He also takes off the wooden support for the door keeping it locked off at the same time. I'd like to point out the casual ease Hunter performed the feat which makes it very impressive. Moving on
Hunter in handcuffs and with very bad leverage picks a member of the ATCU clean off his feet and a couple feet into the wall of the train. Worth nothing the guy would've gone much further without the train wall being there.

Also, these feats are worth mentioning for the strength category as well

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In the first gif Hunter knocks out former top SHIELD agent cold by body slamming her onto the floor, in the same fight said agent was able to take multiple blows from S2 Skye without taking too much damage and no sold slamming her body into a locked hotel door breaking the lock keeping the door secured. In the second Lance destroys a wooden chair by slamming it onto an agent of Hydra. And to close it off with what I consider a very impressive ragdolling feat for Lance

Hunter grabs a STRIKE agent in full body armor and tosses him across a room with zero strain. I consider this ragdoll feat to be superior to any of Frank's own.

-> Speed

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The following speed feat is pretty crazy, not only was Hunter aim dodging 4 shooters and managed to escape to cover, Hunter is also fast enough to grab a gun on the box of crates while aim dodging 4 other shooters and is fast enough to load the gun and shoot down a Hydra agent before Ward can reach cover about 5 feet away. What makes this feat even crazier is one of those shooters was Grant Ward someone who's marksmanship skills are well established and is fast enough to accomplish crazy feats like this

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in the above feat Ward manages to gunblitz six Level 5 SHIELD agents in 3 entirely different directions before they can even raise their guns to aim. What makes this feat more impressive is that Ward landed precise headshots on all of the agents given he was using ICERS and they would've been ineffective if they hit the agent's armor.

Hunter is fast enough to grab Strike agents and throw them across the room before they can even full raise their guns to shoot, something I showed earlier in my post in the Combat section. Another impressive unorathadox combat speed feat I thought was impressive. In this feat Hunter encounters an Inhuman with the power to control his own shadow. When said Inhuman goes to bulrush Hunter, instead of getting overwhelmed Lance skillfully reacts to its blitz, uses its momentum against it and slams it against the wall.

while the feat may not seem too impressive, this Inhuman was the Russian Military general and would've been at least a competent fighter. More over, said inhuman managed to successfully blitz SHILED agent Alphonso Mackenzie not once but twice and successfully blitz him both times and was able to overwhelm Agent Bobbi Morse clocking her directly in the face before she can react

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  • Clocking Bobbi
  • Blitzing Mack once and again

The first and last one I especially just can't see Frank replicating. I'm still hesitant to say he could even outreact Strike agents

Durability

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Now Hunter admittedly doesn't have a tonne of durability feats but the ones he does have are still pretty good like the feat above is Hunter taking a direct smack to the chin from the superhuman Carl Creel with an arm made of bulletproof metal then being grabbed by the neck and ragdolled across the room.

Now Creel's striking does depend on the material he's absorbed but even with basic elements like concrete or metal Creel's striking power is absolutely crazy

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  • he dents a thick steel container with an arm made of asphalt
  • dents thick concrete walls with a head made of concrete
  • decapitates a discount LMD with a metal arm

in the episode prior to fighting Creel Hunter took another pretty powerful hit from Creel that launched him hard enough to bounce a solid 10 feet off the container upon hitting it.

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in Season 2 episode 2 Hunter survives also survives a car crash that badly damaged the vehicle and sent it spinning through the air at crazy insane speeds and well over 100 feet backward. This car crash also killed two former high ranking shield field agents, Hunter pretty much shrugged it off

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-> Combat

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The scene above pits Hunter against two of SHIELD agents in full armour kit who were there to keep Hunter from leaving the room a task they obviously failed to accomplish. Lance is able to easily separate them and two-three shot each of them despite their armour. Gonzales SHIELD agents showed some decently impressive skill in the next episode where they're able to combat S2 Skye for a respectable period of time even making some headway against her at one point in their skirmish.

STRIKE units have also shown impressive skill and physicals outside of the instance with Skye just to establish some consistency

Another impressive feat comes from Season 2 Episode 6 where Hunter takes on HYDRA Mercenaries under the leadership of Marcus Scarlotti. During the entire fight, we see Hunter engage no less than two of the mercenaries at once.

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these same mercs were good enough to overpower Bobbi later on in the fight and push her backwards, earlier in the episode the mercs showed tactics and skill to walk into a UN-hosted meeting and fodderize the security officers working there as well. Hunter also showed a very impressive feat of combat awareness later in the fight scene where he reacts to one of the HYDRA mercs pulling out a splinter bomb, Hunter manages to break out of a submission hold and drop kick said HYDRA merc in the line of fire of the mercenary throwing the splinter bomb in the process saving Bobbi's life

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These next feats may not seem that impressive might not be that crazy but since Hunter doesn't really have much in the way of feats I'm going to exhaust everything I have for this post.

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in this feat, Hunter takes on one of Gideon Malick's best HYDRA agents, we see Hunter react fast enough to disarm him of his gun before he can shoot despite being in a very uncomfortable position and put at point-blank range get up from his position and take him down. In the background of Hunter's fight, you can notice that the HYDRA agents' companion wrestling with Melinda May and even struggling a bit to take him down, Hunter being able to take down his agent despite the position he was starting in before May could take down her own agent is very impressive

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in this feat, Hunter engages a Russian Mercenary tasked with guarding a facility meant to contain Inhumans and was under the ownership of both Malick and the Russian government. We see that these agents are good enough to keep pace with Bobbi Morse for a while and react to her attacks despite that Hunter dodges all of his attacks, lands all his own and fights the mercenary as a superior.

The Closing

So in general, I see this as a pretty comfortable win for Hunter, admittedly Frank has some very good pain tolerance going for him but its nothing Hunter can't handle, I'd argue Agent 33 has at least comparable durability to Frank as well and Hunter practically one-shot her by bonking her on the floor, Hunter's also got a pretty solid speed advantage being able to aim dodge shooters like Grant Ward and outreact SHIELD and HYDRA agents on a consistent basis. Hunter may not be as tanky as Frank is but his durability is solid enough to take whatever Frank can dish out and continue fighting, it's not like Frank will be tagging Hunter much as well.

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#19 Posted by deactivated-5c917f846ef0b (1264 posts) - - Show Bio
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#20 Posted by deactivated-5c917f846ef0b (1264 posts) - - Show Bio
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#21 Posted by Subline (7024 posts) - - Show Bio
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#22 Posted by Subline (7024 posts) - - Show Bio

The Punisher:

Frank Castle - The Punisher!
Frank Castle - The Punisher!

Biography:

Frank Castle was a former US Marine who returned home to his family in hopes of a calm life, only for them to be relentlessly be shot down in cold blood. Frank became a Vigilante named The Punisher, and went around New York cleansing it of it's Criminals by any means necessary even if that meant killing.

Strength:

Here Frank snaps a man's neck with ease, this requires 1000lbs force to do.

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Below are 2 more feats of Frank snapping necks with even more ease than before.

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This is an insane feat, not only does Punisher toss away a fully grown man from the head with just 1 hand, but he also throws him hard enough to completely break a Bathroom Sink.

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Here, it takes 3 Soldiers to Restrain Frank.

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Here, Frank hits Fisk multiple times and staggers him with every hit and leaves him stumbling and stunned at the end. Frank had also just been in a brutal fight against 8 Prison Inmates.

To get a scale of how impressive this feat is, Fisk has repeatedly tanked hits from Daredevil, another instance, and another. Daredevil can one shot fodder, punch people through wooden walls and send people flying with punches.Additionally Fisk shrugged off a huge spinning kick from Daredevil, who could break locks with similar kicks.

I don't think Asphalt will dispute against Fisk's durability being above Hunter's. And as we can see an injured Punisher was able to stun Fisk with just a few hits so it's safe to assume Hunter will at least be stunned after a few hits, and then Frank can repeatedly attack Hunter until he goes down.

Counters:

Hunter kicks open a locked door for a safe house while strolling through. He also takes off the wooden support for the door keeping it locked off at the same time.

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In the gif above Punisher tosses a woman through a wooden toilet cubicle door.

Now, Asphalt provided a feat of Hunter kicking a wooden door down, I believe Punisher's feat is superior for a number of reasons:

  1. Although the door Hunter kicked down was thicker and supported more, Hunter did not break the door or even kick the door off of it's hinges, we can see the door is still firmly intact after he kicks it open.
  2. Frank completely tosses her whole body with 1 hand, and yet additionally he completely shatters a Wooden Cubicle Wall in the process.

In the first gif Hunter knocks out former top SHIELD agent cold by body slamming her onto the floor, in the same fight said agent was able to take multiple blows from S2 Skye without taking too much damage and no sold slamming her body into a locked hotel door breaking the lock keeping the door secured.

I am inclined to believe that Hunter one shotting Kara was the result of him Ambushingher, therefore she was taken by surprise and therefore causing her to be knocked unconscious after being hit onto the floor (which was also a factor). The fact that she was taking hits from May is just another suggestion that Kara being KOd was due to the ambush, as May is not far behind Hunter if behind him at all in terms of strength.

In the second Lance destroys a wooden chair by slamming it onto an agent of Hydra. And to close it off with what I consider a very impressive ragdolling feat for Lance

Although Hunter did break the chair, the shield agent also had a part in that, as the agent had just spin-jumped into the chair preparing to kick Hunter, therefore also contributing toward the chair breaking.

Hunter grabs a STRIKE agent in full body armor and tosses him across a room with zero strain. I consider this ragdoll feat to be superior to any of Frank's own.

We can see in this feat that the Agent slides across the table, so him going such a large distance could be due to the table's material. I doubt that Hunter could throw someone that far based on his other showings.

Frank's raw strength feats hold a slight advantage over Hunters' meaning that Frank will be able to perform similar moves to those he used on Daredevil (A man of superior skill to Humter) via utilizing his superior strength. He has stunned and staggered the likes of Wilson Fisk, a man more durable than Hunter, hence he should have no problem putting Hunter down.

Speed:

Frank is a relatively fast combatant who was even credited by the likes of Daredevil, a casual arrow timer.

Yeah but he's fast, this guy Foggy, he's . . . He's trained.

Frank draws his gun and shoots down 6 Bounty Hunters in under 2 seconds before they can react.

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Frank evades gunfire from Billy Russo, a former Soldier who was stated as second only to Frank.

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Frank evades gunfire again.

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Counters:

The following speed feat is pretty crazy, not only was Hunter aim dodging 4 shooters and managed to escape to cover, Hunter is also fast enough to grab a gun on the box of crates while aim dodging 4 other shooters and is fast enough to load the gun and shoot down a Hydra agent before Ward can reach cover about 5 feet away.

Hunter was looking around to see what he could do he and he looks at the weapon to see how he can get it and get to cover in time, additionally he was prepared while Ward & his Crew were not expecting him to suddenly run away. Which meant that he had additional time to get away while they were drawing their weapons.

What makes this feat even crazier is one of those shooters was Grant Ward someone who's marksmanship skills are well established and is fast enough to accomplish crazy feats like this

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In the gif above that Asphalt has provided Ward was completely ready, he instantly puts his guns up and shoots them, Ward is an excellent marksman, I'm not trying to argue against that point, but Ward was ready in this gif and was simply taken by surprise in the gif with Hunter, I don't see how this feat for Ward is applicable to Hunter's feat. I can't see Hunter outpacing Ward's gunfire while on a fair basis, Frank is at least on the same tier if not above Ward when it comes to marksmanship speeds.

Hunter is fast enough to grab Strike agents and throw them across the room before they can even full raise their guns to shoot, something I showed earlier in my post in the Combat section.

In the gif Asphalt provided the Agent did actually manage to raise his gun slightly. I don't see why having faster reaction speeds than a regular shield agent is impressive anyway.

In this feat Hunter encounters an Inhuman with the power to control his own shadow. When said Inhuman goes to bulrush Hunter, instead of getting overwhelmed Lance skillfully reacts to its blitz, uses its momentum against it and slams it against the wall.

while the feat may not seem too impressive, this Inhuman was the Russian Military general and would've been at least a competent fighter.

This seems like more of a skill feat than a speed feat, as he didn't appear to be moving very fast, unless you have a way to quantify this and prove why it's impressive I don't see how it is.

More over, said inhuman managed to successfully blitz SHILED agent Alphonso Mackenzie not once but twice and successfully blitz him both times and was able to overwhelm Agent Bobbi Morse clocking her directly in the face before she can react

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In the first gif, Bobbi's face seemed shocked which could have made her "freeze", there's also how he appears out of nowhere when he hits Bobbi whereas Hunter actually had time to react as the Inhuman was standing in front of him.

In the second gif, I don't see how that is applicable to Hunter's feat, the Inhuman randomly comes through a wall and ambushed Mack while he wasn't expecting it, and like I said, Hunter had time to react unlike Mack.

The third gif isn't exactly a blitz, he just grabs Mack then ragdolls him into the wall, and we know he wasn't moving particularly fast as the other 2 Shield Agents were moving at a regular pace.

Let's finish off with some combat speed feats.

Now we have seen a few battles between Frank & Daredevil and I won't try to argue that Frank is superior in Speed or just as good, but he's at least comparable as he has shown to be fast enough to contend with Matt, successfully blocking hits and landing some of his own.

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I don't think you'll dispute against Matt being a faster combatant than Hunter, Matt has achieved feats such as beating 4 cops while simultaneously avoiding gunfire (You can hear gunfire in the actual scene), dodging consecutive hits and taking out mobsters in seconds while having major injuries and taking out 3 cops in seconds while in handcuffs.

Frank is more than fast enough to keep up with Hunter as he has kept up with faster combatants, he also has (non scaling) speed feats that prove he is just as fast if not faster than Hunter.

Durability:

Frank tanks 3 punches from Fisk and keeps fighting.

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I would like to point out that Fisk hits considerably harder than Hunter, having the ability to do things like make holes in brick walls with his punches.

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From this we can already conclude that Frank can take a good portion of Hunter's Strikes. However, this is not the end of his encounter with Fisk, after trying to fight back Fisk unloads on him again.

He takes 4 Punches, a Headbutt, a Slam, and 2 Hammer Fist Ground Pounds.

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Although he was laying down for a bit it was not because he couldn't continue it's because he had no reason to get back up and he was tired, 20 seconds later after his handcuffs are removed we can see he is standing and in a fine state.

Now in this next feat, Frank displays great durability and pain tolerance, taking a large amount of attacks from Russian Bodybuilders yet he keeps fighting and ultimately wins, then walks off without any injuries.

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Frank walks away...
Frank walks away...

A similar feat to the one above is where Frank takes a pain challenge at an army camp. He takes 20 hits from US Special Forces including a gut punch from Billy Russo and laughs at the end.

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Frank takes the final hit from Russo and then laughs...
Frank takes the final hit from Russo and then laughs...

Frank's pain tolerance feats and ability to keep fighting will mean that he will keep fighting for a large period of time so Hunter will have to have a pretty large skill gap for him to put Frank down before Frank can do the same, here are Frank's pain tolerance feats:

Counters:

Now Hunter admittedly doesn't have a tonne of durability feats but the ones he does have are still pretty good like the feat above is Hunter taking a direct smack to the chin from the superhuman Carl Creel with an arm made of bulletproof metal then being grabbed by the neck and ragdolled across the room.

Now Creel's striking does depend on the material he's absorbed but even with basic elements like concrete or metal Creel's striking power is absolutely crazy

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  • he dents a thick steel container with an arm made of asphalt
  • dents thick concrete walls with a head made of concrete
  • decapitates a discount LMD with a metal arm

This feat is highly inconsistent, I will expand on this based on the other gif you provided.

in the episode prior to fighting Creel Hunter took another pretty powerful hit from Creel that launched him hard enough to bounce a solid 10 feet off the container upon hitting it.

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In this gif Creel hits Hunter with 1 Palm Strike and he is down for the count, whereas in the gif before he takes what looks like a more powerful uppercut and a throw into a wall and is completely fine, there is clearly some inconsistency here and based on his other showings the first feat is inconsistent (taking a hit and a toss from Absorbing Man). He clearly can't take Absorbing Man's hits and keep fighting as the second gif has shown.

in Season 2 episode 2 Hunter survives also survives a car crash that badly damaged the vehicle and sent it spinning through the air at crazy insane speeds and well over 100 feet backward. This car crash also killed two former high ranking shield field agents, Hunter pretty much shrugged it off

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I don't see why Frank can't replicate this, here Frank & Mahoney crash directly into the ground falling off of a bridge in an Ambulance Truck, and unlike Hunter's feat, Frank was rolling around due to not having his seatbelt on, and he even crashed his arm into the ground causing it to dislocate, yet he just rams into the trucks side to put his shoulder back in place, and then manages to get Brett Mahoney out of the vehicle before the explosion starts, this shows his durability like in the gif you provided but yet again his ability to keep fighting despite his injuries.

Frank's durability will mean he can take most of Hunters hits (having taken hits from a stronger opponent), and his pain tolerance will mean that Frank will never give up until he goes down, Hunter will have to have a large skill gap in order to win as Frank will be able to take a lot more hits than Hunter will. You haven't provided any pain tolerance feats of Hunter, showing that he can keep fighting despite being hurt (excluding the Absorbing Man one which I debunked). Therefore Hunter will not be able to take too much hits.

Combat Skill:

Punisher has repeatedly kept up Daredevil, a guy who is superior in skill to Hunter.

First Fight.

0:00 - 0:22 Matt ambushes Frank, Frank tries to use his weapons rather than resorting to CQC therefore starts to get hit repeatedly, this part is hardly relevant to this battle.

0:22 - 0:32 Matt quickly follows up with a kick that sends Frank rolling back, Frank seems a bit dazzled so Matt decides to follow up on the momentum and hits Frank with a barrage of fast paced hits therefore removing Frank's chance to fight back, although Frank regained some ground here I don't believe this was a fair fight.

0:33 - 0:50 Frank blocks a strike from Matt and hits him with an elbow to the face, he then lands a headbutt and a punch to the face, then skillfully dodges a punch and slams him against a wall, then punches him in the face, Matt is down for the count and Frank could have carried on wailing on him but he leaves as him primary goal is to take out Grotto. This allows Matt to recover and pursue Frank again.

1:03 - Matt jumps and attempts to ambush Frank, but Frank turns around and punches him mid air, he follows up by kicking him in the face, and then after some grappling he suplexes Matt, Matt then recovers and gains the upper hand via using the wall as leverage as well as his own skill and then has Frank on the floor, Frank pulls his gun out and headshots Daredevil.

Second Fight.

0:35 - 0:51 Matt surprise attacks Frank and kicks him off of a water tower, Frank tries to get his gun but Matt tosses his Billy Club at Frank. Frank then tackles Matt while he isn't ready. Again, this part of the fight is irrelevant.

0:51 - 0:58 Matt regains his ground and follows up with a few hits gaining the upper hand, Frank manages to land a hit and attempts to block a few but ultimately gets hit down.

0:59 - 1:07 Matt goes for another attack but Frank grabs his weapon and uses his momentum to cause Daredevil to lose balance therefore Matt flips around to regain his balance. Frank instantly follows up with a kick and a hit to the face with Matt's Billy Club.

1:41 - 1:56 I don't believe this part is relevant, as both are just trying to avoid gunfire.

1:58 - 2:06 Frank goes for a strike but Matt dodges so Frank follows up with a headbutt and also pushes into him. Matt lands a spin kick sending Frank back, Frank then gets shot in the bicep. This would likely compromised Frank's striking power and ability to block, but Frank displays his great pain tolerance again and keeps fighting.

Matt pushes Frank while he isn't aware so this part is irrelevant.

2:11 - 2:24 Frank goes for a punch but Matt dodges a lands a punch to the back, Matt attempts to follow up on this but Frank blocks his rapid attacks and lands a punch to the face twice, Matt then spins and elbows Frank in the face, he then lands another 3 punches in the face, Frank recovers and blocks another 7 attacks, he then grabs Matt by the throat and tackles him through the glass roof.

This then triggers Matt concussion to return and his senses start to fail, this part is irrelevant.

From their 2 fights we can clearly see that Frank is a good match for Daredevil at this point, as he has managed to repeatedly block attacks and land attacks of his own at times. I won't argue that this is the same Matt who was beating Daredevil as Cox stated how much Matt improved since early season 2. But even Early Season 2 Matt is a more skilled opponent than Hunter, as he's achieved feats such as fodderizing 3 Copswhile Handcuffed.

Frank also has a nice selection of fodder wrecking feats.

Here, Frank drops 5 Inmates in quick succession.

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Frank fodderizes 3 Assassins who were credited as "Trained Killers" yet Frank treats them as a joke even saying "I guess not so much" in regards to them being trained. I'll break the fight scene down to avoid any misconceptions.

First, Frank dodges the first 2 opponents and gets them near each other.

Then, Frank simultaneously fights the 2 assassins and eventually takes out the first woman.

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The second lady then tries to attack Frank with a knife but Frank dodges all the strikes and flips her into a wall.

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Frank then takes out the man by punching him, smashing his face off of a door and then throwing him through a sink.

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The 2 women then recover, and they attack Frank with perfect teamwork striking simultaneously and consecutively, yet Frank goes untagged and takes them out with ease.

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Now, I think I should take some time to address the 2 times he gets tagged.

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This just seems like an inconsistency, as Frank fodderizes the same guy later in the fight in a 1v1.

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Getting tagged here is somewhat justified, as Frank was just grappling and didn't seem to be attacking or defending himself.

Frank has proven he can take out 2 of these assassins simultaneously without getting tagged, something I can not see Hunter replicating.

Frank easily disposes of 2 cops.

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Frank beats 3 thugs in a few seconds.

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Counters:

The scene above pits Hunter against two of SHIELD agents in full armour kit who were there to keep Hunter from leaving the room a task they obviously failed to accomplish. Lance is able to easily separate them and two-three shot each of them despite their armour. Gonzales SHIELD agents showed some decently impressive skill in the next episode where they're able to combat S2 Skye for a respectable period of time even making some headway against her at one point in their skirmish.

Skye having trouble with a Shield Agent is highly inconsistent, as Skye was able to fight 4 Alisha Clones and have the upper hand, Alisha was able to stomp a shield agent. Skye also gave Agent 33 a good fight, who was able to give Agent May a good fight. Therefore it makes no sense for Skye to struggle with a random shield agent.

STRIKE units have also shown impressive skill and physicals outside of the instance with Skye just to establish some consistency

I fail to see how these feats are impressive, sure it means they are Elite Fodder. But after all he was only beating them 1v1, in the gif. Which isn't exactly impressive.

Another impressive feat comes from Season 2 Episode 6 where Hunter takes on HYDRA Mercenaries under the leadership of Marcus Scarlotti. During the entire fight, we see Hunter engage no less than two of the mercenaries at once.

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This is simply not true, as here we see fight against 1 Agent and he even gets kicked in the face. I believe Frank's showing against the Assassins is more impressive as he was not getting tagged unless there was reasons which I explained, and they were fighting in sync simultaneously, yet Frank still disposes of them easily.

these same mercs were good enough to overpower Bobbi later on in the fight and push her backwards, earlier in the episode the mercs showed tactics and skill to walk into a UN-hosted meeting and fodderizethe security officers working there as well. Hunter also showed a very impressive feat of combat awareness later in the fight scene where he reacts to one of the HYDRA mercs pulling out a splinter bomb, Hunter manages to break out of a submission hold and drop kick said HYDRA merc in the line of fire of the mercenary throwing the splinter bomb in the process saving Bobbi's life

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The Agent did manage to match Bobbi's strength but not once did she get tagged. And those feats aren't that great, and there's also how Hunter was tagged, twice in that fight.

Hunter beat a few agents and got tagged, I believe Frank's Prison Feat is superior as he only gets tagged once while distracted, other times he gets tagged are due to the opponents having a reach advantage and a bladed weapon while Frank is unarmed. He also fights much more opponents (9) than Hunter did.

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in this feat, Hunter takes on one of Gideon Malick's best HYDRA agents, we see Hunter react fast enough to disarm him of his gun before he can shoot despite being in a very uncomfortable position and put at point-blank range get up from his position and take him down. In the background of Hunter's fight, you can notice that the HYDRA agents' companion wrestling with Melinda May and even struggling a bit to take him down, Hunter being able to take down his agent despite the position he was starting in before May could take down her own agent is very impressive

Although he was on the floor he wasn't really fighting while grounded he just got back up fine, Frank has kept up with Daredevil who beat Cops while handcuffed which imo is a much bigger limiter, he also beat 3 cops whereas Hunter fights 1 opponent here.

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in this feat, Hunter engages a Russian Mercenary tasked with guarding a facility meant to contain Inhumans and was under the ownership of both Malick and the Russian government. We see that these agents are good enough to keep pace with Bobbi Morse for a while and react to her attacks despite that Hunter dodges all of his attacks, lands all his own and fights the mercenary as a superior.

Bobbi does beat 2 of the Mercs though, and Hunter only takes out one. And it still takes Hunter around 10 seconds just to beat that 1 Merc, Frank has fodderized Special Forces Soldiers with much less effort such as Jake. Who was armed with a knife, Frank just side steps and hits him with 1 knee that puts him down.

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So in general, I see this as a pretty comfortable win for Hunter, admittedly Frank has some very good pain tolerance going for him but its nothing Hunter can't handle

As I pointed out Frank took hits from a stronger opponent and was fine, you're gonna have to do better if you want to prove why Frank's durability and pain tolerance isn't going to be a large issue, considering he took hits from a stronger opponent (like I said) and never gives up in a fight until he is fully down for the count.

I'd argue Agent 33 has at least comparable durability to Frank as well and Hunter practically one-shot her by bonking her on the floor

This feat has been debunked.

Hunter's also got a pretty solid speed advantage being able to aim dodge shooters like Grant Ward and outreact SHIELD and HYDRA agents on a consistent basis.

Ward wasn't ready for Hunter to suddenly try to escape. This has been debunked.

Hunter may be able to outreact singular fodder, but out-reacting 6 Ready Bounty Hunters is more impressive any day of the week.

Hunter may not be as tanky as Frank is but his durability is solid enough to take whatever Frank can dish out and continue fighting, it's not like Frank will be tagging Hunter much as well.

You haven't proved why he won't be tagging Hunter. You didn't make any comparisons as to why Hunter is faster or more skilled than Frank.

Conclusion:

The Punisher wins this battle as he has the striking power to put down Hunter, as he has staggered and stunned a more durable opponent in Wilson Fisk, as for durability we can use the same scaling. Frank tanked some hits from Fisk who is a stronger opponent than Hunter, there's also Frank's extreme pain tolerance, putting Frank down is not going to be an easy task. Frank is the faster opponent as Hunter's feats are mainly just out-reacting singular fodder, Frank has also out-reacted Trained Soldiers whilst being aimed at from behind and Multiple Other Fodder. Additionally Frank has also shown the skill and combat speed to keep up with Daredevil, a more skilled opponent, Frank's also takes out fodder with more ease in larger quantities in less time. Proving he can do much more than keep up with Hunter. Frank has the speed, strength, durability advantage, his skill is equal or above. I just don't see how Hunter wins. Frank will land just as much hits if not he'll land more, and due to his superior physicals Hunter will be the one to go down first.

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#25 Posted by Subline (7024 posts) - - Show Bio
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#26 Posted by deactivated-5c917f846ef0b (1264 posts) - - Show Bio

@subline: Like I told you on discord, I can't work on anything this week so it'll be up the next.