MCU Captain Marvel vs DCEU Wonder Woman

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#601 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (6013 posts) - - Show Bio

Did I just read correctly? MOTM said that Batman dodging DD is > anything CM has done?

Lmao. Poor kid.

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#602 Posted by Emanresu_20 (3113 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_shazam0920:

Notice how he’s only posting feats of characters that would utterly destroy WW lol.

He’s scaling her off of Supes and Acting as if Dodging Doomsday is soooo special... When a peak human did it lol.

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#603 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (6013 posts) - - Show Bio

@emanresu_20:

He’s an obsessive fanboy, but I honestly feel bad for him. This is the only place in his life where he feels like he’s somebody. Be nice to him.

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#604 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (6013 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman:

Yo dude. Honestly, how many times have you seen BvS and WW?

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#605 Posted by IPvMan (866 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_shazam0920: How many times do I have to tell you not to tag me without arguments? Go fanboy over someone else's account lmao.

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#606 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (6013 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman:

Aw, what’s wrong bro?

That hurts.

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#607 Posted by greenroost (1381 posts) - - Show Bio

wonder woman slightly > captain marvel (excluding flight)

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#608 Posted by MAZAHS117 (13599 posts) - - Show Bio

As long as Carol keeps her distance, I’d give her the majority in both rounds. She’s above Diana at this point in all categories except skill. I’d be stupid of her to try and engage Wondy in CQC, especially in Round 2 if Diana has her gear.

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#609 Posted by miekskywalker (2596 posts) - - Show Bio

@mazahs117: Carol is more than skilled enough. In her weakened state she beat the hell out of the skrull while her hands were bound.

Secondly even if she wasn't skilled (which she is) her stats are to good.

She flew through the accuser like it was made out of cardboard that feat alone is all she needs.

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#610 Posted by Red_Ruby_Petal (8457 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_shazam0920:

Notice how he’s only posting feats of characters that would utterly destroy WW lol.

He’s scaling her off of Supes and Acting as if Dodging Doomsday is soooo special... When a peak human did it lol.

You can scale off Wonder Woman to Doomsday and Superman, because ever since her debu appearance she was segmented as around the same league as both of them. There isn't any reason to believe she wasn't on the same league previously, especially after Wonder Woman where she would possibly get much more powerful and her aoe attacks are on the high end area since B v S.

Doomsday not being able to tag Batman is a low showing from Doomsday. Its not uncommon for characters to have low showings.

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#611 Edited by Emanresu_20 (3113 posts) - - Show Bio

@red_ruby_petal:

You can’t scale her of Supes at all after JL. He so far eclipsed her in every category that is hilarious.

And that’s not a low showing to DD that is actually consistent. The was a scene where Batman was clearly able to track wAnd Doomsday fighting.

Not only that but even then Nothing about the WW vs DD fight suggested they were moving at Mach speeds. One thing I took into consideration was the fire in the background. Their movements were relative to that of the fire and everything else flying around in her background.

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#612 Edited by Red_Ruby_Petal (8457 posts) - - Show Bio

@emanresu_20:

You can’t scale her of Supes at all after JL. He so far eclipsed her in every category that is hilarious.

I didn't mean after JL, but since B v S, meaning the Wonder Woman after Man Of Steel.

And that’s not a low showing to DD that is actually consistent. The was a scene where Batman was clearly able to track wAnd Doomsday fighting.

There is a difference between tracking something and actually being able to dodge something. Fast characters forgetting to use their speeds, isn't an issue of them not being able to do so for any fictional medium.

Not only that but even the. Nothing about the WW van DD fight suggested they were moving at Mach speeds.

Yes there was. He was literally breaking the sound barrier with his punches and sent Wonder Woman at those speeds, which she tanked.

No Caption Provided

One thing I took into consideration was the fire in the background. Their movements were relative to that of the fire and everything else flying around in her background.

You cannot portray a supersonic scene in real time. Its not possible in any fictional medium to get it consistently right. Fire isn't an effect that is drawn to scale.

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#613 Edited by Emanresu_20 (3113 posts) - - Show Bio

@red_ruby_petal:

Even then she was clearly outmatched by DD. The only reason she remained in the fight was do to hear and even then she was still outmatched.

Batman was able to do both to a Doomsday and even in the scene you posted he was clearly able to see what was happening in the fight.

That was a shockwave not a Mach Cone. It didn’t even sound like a Mach Cone. Notice how it only appeared after it made contact with WW. Not only that that’s not Combat speed. That’s a good striking feat for him to his her so hard she broke the sound barrier.

Sure you can. Look at man of Steel. They did so perfectly with Faora and Supes school Zod. I have yet to see WW blitz or constantly move around the Battlefield at Mach speeds.

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#614 Edited by Red_Ruby_Petal (8457 posts) - - Show Bio

@emanresu_20:

Even then she was clearly outmatched by DD.

She couldn't beat or put down Doomsday in the same way Superman couldn't beat or put down Doomsday, but its not like they were in a different tier, otherwise Diana wouldn't have lasted as long as she should have, or would have even blocked his attacks.

The only reason she remained in the fight was do to hear and even then she was still outmatched.

da what?

Batman was able to do both to a Doomsday and even in the scene you posted he was clearly able to see what was happening in the fight.

Thats not the point, even if he were able to perceive it, it clearly illustrates Doomsday doing a punch in supersonic speed which is the point of the scene. It is its own way of illustrating the speed and power behind Doomsday's punches, and you can't be so nitpicky about it.

That was a shockwave not a Mach Connie. Notice how it only appeared after it made contact with WW.

A shockwave illustrated in the way they made it look like it was a mach cone, hence why Wonder Woman had a mach cone behind her when she was sent with that same punch.

Not only that that’s not Combat speed. That’s a good striking feat for him to his her so hard she broke the sound barrier.

Do you understand the physics behind a punch? If you are going to send anyone at mach speed, you have to punch for the equivalent or more than the speed the person was sent flying. That is the speed he is accelerating his fist and I don't understand why do you think that has nothing to do with combat speed.

Sure you can. Look at man of Steel. They did so perfectly with Faora and Supes school Zod.

What you are doing is scaling off their speed to minimal effects, and you can do the exact same thing with the scene where Zod and Superman were exchanging blows so you can disprove them going supersonic. They didn't do it perfectly and it doesn't matter if a movie somehow manages to pull off every bit of physics as accurate, because in the end that is just another attempt at mental gymnastics which is stupid when debating fictional mediums. Some things just aren't meant to be drawn to scale. You are only making things overcomplicated for no apparent reason rather than just getting the clear accurate message with their portrayal.

I have yet to see WW blitz or constantly move around the Battlefield at Mach speeds.

But she can deal with characters who can accelerate themselves at supersonic speeds and deflect supersonic projectiles at point blank range making her a good deal supersonic in her own unique way.

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#615 Edited by Emanresu_20 (3113 posts) - - Show Bio

@red_ruby_petal:

If that’s the Case they that would means the only thing DD has going for him was Durability to match Supes During the time of BvS. Diana was only able to last as long as she did due to he shield. I really doubt she can take repeated strikes from DD without her Equipment.

He clearly was able to perceive it as shown in the scene. It showed him looking directly at the fight and moving his head to track what was going on. I agree with you with what constitutes for striking which is the speed and power of the bpnch But...

You are confusing reaction and combat speed. You aren’t going to see Doomsday or Diana blitz or move around the battle at Mach speeds. Like the scene where Faora blitzed and took out a group of Soldiers in MoS. THAT was Mach speed combat speed. And no WW has not once demonstrated speed like that. Not even during a blitz. Or take the fights in DBZ. They moving constantly moving at relativistic speeds throughout their battle and not just in short bursts. THATS combat speed.

I’m also just looking at what is right on the screen. If you noticed whenever WW struck Doomsday herself no Mach Cone was visible at all. Not even when she swung her sword. Not even when she blitzed. Let me post show you. Post a scene that shows WW herself move at Mach Speeds.

This isn’t mental Gymnastics it’s just an observation. She moved relative to the things around her such as the fire, other things being blown around in the Wind, and even Batman in the scene you posted where DD struck her.

I can by she has Mach speed reaction but when people act as if she can dance around her opponent at Mach speeds that’s when I have to disagree

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#616 Posted by Red_Ruby_Petal (8457 posts) - - Show Bio

@emanresu_20:

If that’s the Case they that would means the only thing DD has going for him was Durability to match Supes During the time of BvS. Diana was only able to last as long as she did due to he shield. I really doubt she can take repeated strikes from DD without her Equipment.

The only thing I only wanted to prove is that Diana at her best is around the same tier. She does also seem like she can trade blows, especially when she traded headbutts with Superman in JL, despite inevitably losing.

He clearly was able to perceive it as shown in the scene. It showed him looking directly at the fight and moving his head to track what was going on. I agree with you with what constitutes for striking which is the speed and power of the bpnch But...

He can perceive Doomsday doing casual movements and its not like every character is going to be doing full supersonic locomotion. But if its going to be full on thrusts directly at him, chances are he is never gonna know whats coming.

You are confusing reaction and combat speed. You aren’t going to see Doomsday or Diana blitz or move around the battle at Mach speeds. Like the scene where Faora blitzed and took out a group of Soldiers in MoS. THAT was Mach speed combat speed.

I am not confusing anything. I don't see how carrying a punch at mach speed sets it apart from combat speed, or in any case this is nothing combat irrelevant.

I’m also just looking at what is right on the screen. If you noticed whenever WW struck Doomsday herself no Mach Cone was visible at all.

There doesn't have to be a mach cone to demonstrate supersonic speed, that is why I said she can be supersonic in her own way. She can react and block hits from Doomsday, and swing her arms at a speed to match automatic fire from bullets. That is more than enough to suggest she has supersonic reaction times and combat speed. It doesn't have to just be mach cones. Fictional characters don't need prerequisites to perform better feats. They just have to perform it.

Not even when she swung her sword. Not even when she blitzed. Let me post show you. Post a scene that shows WW herself move at Mach Speeds.

Like here?

No Caption Provided

She is moving her arm to match the speed of a bullet, and casually. That already says a lot about how fast she is when she swings her blades or gets into close quarters. This isn't even getting to the feats she performed from JL, or at the end of Wonder Woman where she blitzes people before gravity even takes place suggesting her perception was already leagues above anyone's or when she managed to blitz Ares which just goes to show her combat speed is comparable to her running speed.

This isn’t mental Gymnastics it’s just an observation.

What is wrong is that your observation is mental gymnastics.

She moved relative to the things around her such as the fire, other things being blown around in the Wind, and even Batman in the scene you posted where DD struck her.

Dude there are feats like catching on fire from speed, or legitimately deflecting lightning yet everything around them moves normally. You can't go around and take things from the background that aren't even important to what makes a feat. You are gonna take away thousands of feats just because you are observing things that aren't supposed to be observed. Not everyone is going to make things go in slow motion around them to demonstrate a feat and are not gonna go out of their way to make the feat realistic to everything around them. I shouldn't be telling what to look or what not to look at for you to tell that what you are claiming is an absurd claim to disprove them as supersonic.

I can by she has Mach speed reaction but when people act as if she can dance around her opponent at Mach speeds that’s when I have to disagree

The one thing I did have a problem with you was because you were constantly using Doomsday's showing of Batman being able to perceive him to show he wasn't supersonic if that was what you were getting it. DD not getting to Batman is definitely a low showing for Batman anyway you look at it.

Now if you think she can't constantly move at mach speeds is another case, but I disagree with this. Her showing of going on a blitzing spree with the end result demonstrating she went so fast the shockwave sent them flying is a one up to Faora's showing against soldiers, and she did this just by running really really fast.

No Caption Provided

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#617 Posted by Emanresu_20 (3113 posts) - - Show Bio

@red_ruby_petal:

He also Perceived Diana’s Blotz in real time at all which wasn’t even close to Mach Speeds in that instance. She didn’t move Mach Speeds. Also if they are “full on thrusts” he actually already dodged them because he clearly saw doomsday wind up before throwing that punch and he already did in fact dodge him.

Yes you are confusing Mach speeds with reaction speed. Most people can punch around 25 mph but I’m not going to say that they can zoom around bobbing and weaving at 25mph that’s just ridiculous.

So if there was no Mach Cone what indication was ther that she was going Mach Speeds. The DCEU has show its consistency use Mach cones when character break the sound barrier. Why would WW be any different or not follow the same guidelines the DCEU has already established. Again look at the statement yo posted.

“She can react and block hits from Doomsday, and swing her arms at a speed to match automatic fire from bullets”

This is clear as day an example of reaction and reflex speeds. Even your example with the “No Mans Land” feat is considered a reaction feat. Not only that her are was actually moving in slow motion relative to the bullet. Also when she blitares that was in no way her moving at Mach speeds.

If we cant look at things in the background if we can’t see Mach cones form around her when she runs or blitzes...then what is there to go off that she is moving at Mach Speeds?

Again I don’t see how this is a low showing when quite frankly we haven’t seen DD blitz at Mach Speeds at all. Even when he did blitz Batz I didn’t look as if he didn’t go any faster than he usuatdid.

She was standing comply still when she thrust med those soldiers back. That is in no way as fast as Faora who was able to move at that speed constantly Change directions while simultaneously grabbing other soldiers and throwing them. In to of that in that scene Diana was moving at the exact pace of the falling Solders before the hit the ground

Nothing other than her reaction speed is Supersonic. If you don’t mind on your next post can you show Diana’s best speed feats that you believe put her at supersonic combat speed.

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#618 Posted by CyberpunkCop (3406 posts) - - Show Bio

Carol curbs

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#619 Posted by godzilla44 (7940 posts) - - Show Bio

WW's gear cements her win.

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#620 Posted by The_Gaurdian (768 posts) - - Show Bio

What I'm really not understanding is how Carol is stomping Diana on the basis of hypersonic combat speed, S tier strengh, energy absorption/blasts and durability good enough to ignore reentry

When.......

Diana did just as good, if not better than Superman (somone who'd beat Carol pretty easily) against Doomsday (someone who'd also beat Carol): A character with hypersonic combat speed, S tier strengh, energy absorption/blasts and durability good enough to ignore reentry.....

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#621 Edited by Paytience (5336 posts) - - Show Bio

@red_ruby_petal: Average muzzle velocity of the german gewehr: 2500fps (2800 high end) Roughly 1700 mph.

Average distance across no man's land: 250 yards.

Human reaction time: .12 seconds.

Average time for the bullet to cross no man's land: .3 seconds. Or, well within human reaction range. The gif shows what all the gifs show...superhuman tracking and precision. Not superhuman reaction.

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#622 Posted by death4bunnies (3169 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_gaurdian:

Because Doomsday is dumb, also plot.

If DD had near the training or brains of Danvers, that fight between him and WW would of been even more one sided than it already was.

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#623 Posted by terminator10 (19 posts) - - Show Bio

Is this a joke? Wonder Woman is on tier Black Panther/IronMan level. Captain Marvel is on tier Superman Thor level.

Tell me what is Wonder Woman going to do while Captain Marvel is in the air? She can fly around the earth and comeback in light speed before Wonder Woman blinks her eye or even sees her coming.

Captain Marvel no contest

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#624 Posted by The_Gaurdian (768 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_gaurdian:

Because Doomsday is dumb, also plot.

If DD had near the training or brains of Danvers, that fight between him and WW would of been even more one sided than it already was.

Great, this argument ?. If Doomsday could overwhelm Superman through sheer speed and ferocity, he'd most definitely overwhelm Carol considering that Kal showed actual skill against Kryptonians that near equaled him in stats instead of struggling with Kree like CM did.

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#625 Posted by death4bunnies (3169 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_gaurdian:

CM never struggled with Kree. She literally said "ill go distract them", then made sure they thought she had the tesseract. As soon as Yon Rog figured out that she didnt have it, he called ahead to have Kree intercept Fury and crew(bad). This was clearly tactics and good ones at that.

Did you notice how Diana, even though she is a good deal weaker did slightly better against DD than superman? This is because she has more skill than superman, and that closed the stat gap. She faired so well during that fight because of skill. Here she is facing a similar stat gap, but she doesnt hold such an advantage with skill. (I believe Diana has a skill advantage over CM, but not as massive of a gap as fighting a mindless monster)

You asked

"What I'm really not understanding is how Carol is stomping Diana on the basis of hypersonic combat speed, S tier strengh, energy absorption/blasts and durability good enough to ignore reentry...Diana did just as good.....against Doomsday... with hypersonic combat speed, S tier strengh, energy absorption/blasts and durability good enough to ignore reentry."

My answer is skill, if we assume DD and CM are on the same level physically(I'm not sure they are), one is still vastly more skilled than the other CM>>>>DD in skill.

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#626 Edited by death4bunnies (3169 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_gaurdian:

Another thought...

You said, "Kal showed actual skill against Kryptonians that near equaled him in stats"

Those Kryptionians were ridiculously unskilled, Lois Lane killed more DCEU Kryptonians than anyone else.

Lois Lane owned DCEU Kryptonians with equal stats.

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#627 Edited by Nucleon (4114 posts) - - Show Bio

@red_ruby_petal: She couldn't beat or put down Doomsday in the same way Superman couldn't beat or put down Doomsday, but its not like they were in a different tier, otherwise Diana wouldn't have lasted as long as she should have, or would have even blocked his attacks.

Come on, Petal; Once Superman stopped amping up DD and went to Lois Lane, WW chopped one of his arm off and had it trapped in the lasso. Literally the two best attacks they ever got on Doomsday: She was winning.

IMO, If WW was alone for all of the battle vs Doomsday - maybe with Batman backup - she would have eliminated him without causing all the collateral Supes made to just amp it to silly levels.

Also, I think Doomsday is wanked to ridiculous levels here. He's just a glorified Abomination, nothing comparable to Hela, Dormammu, Surtur, Thanos, Ronan, Ego etc etc. Even Ultron was more of a threat.

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#628 Posted by ShepardOakenPrime (1247 posts) - - Show Bio

We could take round 1, but I can't see her beating Binary Carol other than blitzing.

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#629 Posted by The_Gaurdian (768 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_gaurdian:

CM never struggled with Kree. She literally said "ill go distract them", then made sure they thought she had the tesseract. As soon as Yon Rog figured out that she didnt have it, he called ahead to have Kree intercept Fury and crew(bad). This was clearly tactics and good ones at that.

Yon Rogg managed to get away while Carol struggled with 2 Star Forrce that Diana would've floored in seconds though. He says "nice diversion" and leaves the room and manages a 30 second head start.

Did you notice how Diana, even though she is a good deal weaker did slightly better against DD than superman? This is because she has more skill than superman, and that closed the stat gap

She's stopped a punch and reeled him in with her lasso. That sounds nothing like a stat gap.

. She faired so well during that fight because of skill. Here she is facing a similar stat gap,

Carol is absolutely nowhere near as strong as Doomsday so if anything It's the other way around.

but she doesnt hold such an advantage with skill. (I believe Diana has a skill advantage over CM, but not as massive of a gap as fighting a mindless monster)

Diana:

The best fighter in a warrior society that's trained for thousands of years

Defeated the God of War solo

Held her own against Steppenwolf while at a disadvantage

Carol:

Isn't even the best fighter on her team of fodders

You asked

"What I'm really not understanding is how Carol is stomping Diana on the basis of hypersonic combat speed, S tier strengh, energy absorption/blasts and durability good enough to ignore reentry...Diana did just as good.....against Doomsday... with hypersonic combat speed, S tier strengh, energy absorption/blasts and durability good enough to ignore reentry."

My answer is skill, if we assume DD and CM are on the same level physically(I'm not sure they are),

They aren't at all

one is still vastly more skilled than the other CM>>>>DD in skill.

Superman has better skill feats than Carol (Holding your own against near physical equals bred solely for war>>>>>Having a stat advantage and still struggling) and Doomsday was kicking him into different zip codes. CM would get wrecked

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#630 Edited by death4bunnies (3169 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_gaurdian:

LOL, Lois lane has killed more DCEU Kryptonians than anyone else.

Whats this about Kryptonians having any skill??

You asked why people think CM wins(then you assumed similar stats with DD, not me), I answered because DD is a mindless brute, and CM isn't.

Im quoting you here:

''What I'm really not understanding is how Carol is stomping Diana on the basis of hypersonic combat speed, S tier strengh, energy absorption/blasts and durability good enough to ignore reentry

When.......

Diana did just as good, if not better than Superman (somone who'd beat Carol pretty easily) against Doomsday (someone who'd also beat Carol): A character with hypersonic combat speed, S tier strengh, energy absorption/blasts and durability good enough to ignore reentry.....''

I won't be strawmanned into defending a position I dont hold. You said similar stats I didnt.

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#631 Posted by The_Gaurdian (768 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_gaurdian:

LOL, Lois lane has killed more DCEU Kryptonians than anyone else.

Whats this about Kryptonians having any skill??

Lmao I'm not taking this argument seriously

You asked why people think CM wins(then you assumed similar stats with DD, not me), I answered because DD is a mindless brute, and CM isn't

Ok but what's important to note is that

A. Doomsday is vastly more powerful despite being a mindless brute

B. Doomsday had no trouble with someone vastly superior to Carol (Superman)

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#632 Posted by death4bunnies (3169 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_gaurdian:

Also important to note.

1: CM isn't fighting Doomsday here, she's fighting the vastly slower and less powerful Wonderwoman.

2: Carol is both stronger by quantifiable onscreen feats, and faster in flight speed than DCEU Superman.

3: Lois Lane killed more DCEU Kryptonians than anyone else. Thats a fact. Kryptonains don't seem very skilled.

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#633 Posted by The_Gaurdian (768 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_gaurdian:

Also important to note.

1: CM isn't fighting Doomsday here, she's fighting the vastly slower and less powerful Wonderwoman.

If Wonder Woman is capable of handling Doomsday the way she did, it's Carol that's slower and less powerful than Diana, not the other way around.

2: Carol is both stronger by quantifiable onscreen feats,

Stronger than someone who overpowered a kryptonian? No she's not.

and faster in flight speed than DCEU Superman.

That's all she has though. A flight speed advantage and literally nothing else.

3: Lois Lane killed more DCEU Kryptonians than anyone else. Thats a fact. Kryptonains don't seem very skilled.

This still isn't a real argument and I'm not even gonna entertain it as such.

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#634 Posted by deactivated-5cc073360931e (791 posts) - - Show Bio

Carol stomps

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#635 Posted by death4bunnies (3169 posts) - - Show Bio

@death4bunnies said:

@the_gaurdian:

Also important to note.

1: CM isn't fighting Doomsday here, she's fighting the vastly slower and less powerful Wonderwoman.

If Wonder Woman is capable of handling Doomsday the way she did, it's Carol that's slower and less powerful than Diana, not the other way around.

Can you show me a speed feat from Diana where she significantly out paces a bullet. A distance traveled vs time sorta thing. I have Diana being marginally faster than a bullet.

2: Carol is both stronger by quantifiable onscreen feats,

Stronger than someone who overpowered a kryptonian? No she's not.

Did you just scale superman off of a Kryptonian? Thats some circular logic.

Im mean this feat.

No Caption Provided

Is greater than this feat

No Caption Provided

I did some calcs if you'd like to see them.

and faster in flight speed than DCEU Superman.

That's all she has though. A flight speed advantage and literally nothing else.

She also has energy projection (Can you show me Supermans heat vision being above building level) and equatable striking (She bullrushed through a city sized ship) I did a calc on the size of the ship if you'd like to see.

3: Lois Lane killed more DCEU Kryptonians than anyone else. Thats a fact. Kryptonains don't seem very skilled.

This still isn't a real argument and I'm not even gonna entertain it as such.

Its a real argument. Lois Lane wouldn't of been able to do that to star force, because they are too skilled.

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#636 Posted by The_Gaurdian (768 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_gaurdian said:
@death4bunnies said:

@the_gaurdian:

Also important to note.

1: CM isn't fighting Doomsday here, she's fighting the vastly slower and less powerful Wonderwoman.

If Wonder Woman is capable of handling Doomsday the way she did, it's Carol that's slower and less powerful than Diana, not the other way around.

Can you show me a speed feat from Diana where she significantly out paces a bullet. A distance traveled vs time sorta thing. I have Diana being marginally faster than a bullet.

No Caption Provided

2: Carol is both stronger by quantifiable onscreen feats,

Stronger than someone who overpowered a kryptonian? No she's not.

Did you just scale superman off of a Kryptonian? Thats some circular logic.

I scaled Wonder Woman off kryptonians because she's shown to be that level

Im mean this feat.

No Caption Provided

Is greater than this feat

No Caption Provided

I did some calcs if you'd like to see them.

It probably is but I can calc several of Clark's feats that blow that one out of the water

and faster in flight speed than DCEU Superman.

That's all she has though. A flight speed advantage and literally nothing else.

She also has energy projection (Can you show me Supermans heat vision being above building level)

Zod's heat vision casually sawed through a skyscraper. And the military concluded that a kryptonian similar to Zod's level could've sawed through multiple buildings in quick succession.

and equatable striking (She bullrushed through a city sized ship) I did a calc on the size of the ship if you'd like to see.

Diana doesn't have a striking feat like that but Superman plowed through the World Engine and shook metropolis hard enough to uproot a crane according to the novel if you wanna compare.

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#637 Posted by ghomes (55 posts) - - Show Bio
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#638 Posted by death4bunnies (3169 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_gaurdian:

She moved about the same distance in the same time as that bullets, id still only give her slightly faster than a bullet moment speed.

Maybe you should go over to the CM vs Superman thread. I dont think Diana is near his level nor do I think this is the forum to compare CM/Superman feats.

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#639 Posted by The_Gaurdian (768 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_gaurdian:

She moved about the same distance in the same time as that bullets, id still only give her slightly faster than a bullet moment speed.

She literally had her bracelets position to block the bullets before they even hit. That's more than slightly faster.

Maybe you should go over to the CM vs Superman thread. I dont think Diana is near his level nor do I think this is the forum to compare CM/Superman feats.

I'm in the right thread. Diana's first appearance firmly placed her as a near equal to Kal through scaling and direct feats.

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#640 Posted by KingLouie (3586 posts) - - Show Bio

Lock?

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#641 Posted by Red_Ruby_Petal (8457 posts) - - Show Bio

@emanresu_20:

He also Perceived Diana’s Blotz in real time at all which wasn’t even close to Mach Speeds in that instance. She didn’t move Mach Speeds.

Character aren't going to be full speed all the time, and this happens to everyone, that or the audience wants us to perceive them and we don't really know what its like in batman's perception. They also do help quite a bit by blurring the characters, indicating they are going faster than what people can normally perceive.

Also if they are “full on thrusts” he actually already dodged them because he clearly saw doomsday wind up before throwing that punch and he already did in fact dodge him.

What I said earlier was that Batman dodging Doomsday is either in outlier for him or a low showing Doomsday, so that is why I said full thrusts, especially when he manages he catch up to Batman's jet previously.

Yes you are confusing Mach speeds with reaction speed. Most people can punch around 25 mph but I’m not going to say that they can zoom around bobbing and weaving at 25mph that’s just ridiculous.

Excuse me, you said combat speed. This practically applies to both punches and kicks.

So if there was no Mach Cone what indication was ther that she was going Mach Speeds. The DCEU has show its consistency use Mach cones when character break the sound barrier. Why would WW be any different or not follow the same guidelines the DCEU has already established. Again look at the statement yo posted.

This isn't a rule set by DCEU but you a rule you are trying to set. Characters can have their own unique way of portraying they are supersonic and some looking more overpowered than others. Look at it from an artistic perspective, people need to distinguish characters from other characters in their own ways, but the feats they perform are still supersonic.

“She can react and block hits from Doomsday, and swing her arms at a speed to match automatic fire from bullets”

This is clear as day an example of reaction and reflex speeds. Even your example with the “No Mans Land” feat is considered a reaction feat. Not only that her are was actually moving in slow motion relative to the bullet. Also when she blitares that was in no way her moving at Mach speeds.

It still counts as combat speed, which is what I was trying to tell you. I can't even believe this was the bulk of our argument when I only wanted to address scaling. You're definition of combat speed is different and you are being over specific. The reason I posted the feat from No Man's Land is because you assumed she can't swing her sword at supersonic speed, which I directly put your quote here.

Not even when she swung her sword. Not even when she blitzed. Let me post show you. Post a scene that shows WW herself move at Mach Speeds.

So I feel like you have been derailing by being completely centered towards "combat speed" which by definition is any sort of speed applied in combat. I already posted her running at mach speeds in the previous post.

If we cant look at things in the background if we can’t see Mach cones form around her when she runs or blitzes...then what is there to go off that she is moving at Mach Speeds?

Her creating a shockwave by running, ( which I posted previously ), as well as blitzing Ares by running at him, someone who could already compare to her in pure combat speed as well.

Again I don’t see how this is a low showing when quite frankly we haven’t seen DD blitz at Mach Speeds at all. Even when he did blitz Batz I didn’t look as if he didn’t go any faster than he usuatdid.

We've seen him catchup to a Jet and we've literally seen him sending someone at supersonic speeds with his punches.

She was standing comply still when she thrust med those soldiers back. That is in no way as fast as Faora who was able to move at that speed constantly Change directions while simultaneously grabbing other soldiers and throwing them. In to of that in that scene Diana was moving at the exact pace of the falling Solders before the hit the ground

The part you should be looking at isn't Diana moving at the pace of soldiers, but the fact that she created the shockwave by running, which is in most cases supersonic.

Nothing other than her reaction speed is Supersonic. If you don’t mind on your next post can you show Diana’s best speed feats that you believe put her at supersonic combat speed.

I've shown and typed a few instances already which you need to check back.

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#642 Posted by Red_Ruby_Petal (8457 posts) - - Show Bio

@red_ruby_petal: Average muzzle velocity of the german gewehr: 2500fps (2800 high end) Roughly 1700 mph.

Average distance across no man's land: 250 yards.

Human reaction time: .12 seconds.

Average time for the bullet to cross no man's land: .3 seconds. Or, well within human reaction range. The gif shows what all the gifs show...superhuman tracking and precision. Not superhuman reaction.

What?

You know, you could just look at the speed she was moving her arm relative to the bullet.

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#643 Posted by Red_Ruby_Petal (8457 posts) - - Show Bio

@nucleon:

It was more of the fact that Doomsday was capable of zoning her, can keep up with her speed, is waayy too big, and could instantaneously regenerate, that and it takes a swing at a certain spot to cut off his arm.

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#644 Edited by Paytience (5336 posts) - - Show Bio

@red_ruby_petal: Or , rather then trying to pull randomly guessed numbers out of thin air, you could use actual real numbers that clearly prove you wrong.

It doesn't matter how fast you think she is moving her arm...it's relative to the bullet. And the bullet would not be crossing the distance in any amount of time that requires superhuman reactions.

The end.

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#645 Posted by Emanresu_20 (3113 posts) - - Show Bio

@red_ruby_petal: This scene clearly showed Batman following this movements of the fight. We were looking from his perception. This isn’t about the audience this is about what bats perceived.

I counter the claim it was an outlier feat sue to the fact we saw that Batman was capable of tracking DDs movements aftwerwars while he was fighting Diana.

No combat speed is how fast you are able to constantly move in battle. Like the Flash and Superman fight. That was a perfect example Combat speed. I can punch faster than I could move. There is no way I’m going to dance around my opponent at 25 miles per hour.

Ok so let’s say the do not need Mach cones to portray Super Sonic Speed. What other indication is there that they were moving that fast?

The feats you have posted were not combat speeds those were reaction feats. Especially the no mans land feat. Not to mention the bullet was going faster than her are. It covered a greater distance in a shorter time frame than it took her to raise her arm to block it.

The gif you posted when she fought the soldiers wasn’t even a speed feat. Again she was litterally standing still when she sent them flying back. I don’t know how you assumed that the shock wave came from her running speed.

The Batwing wasn’t flying at Mach speeds.

https://youtu.be/PKhQsph5QX4

1:04

The amount it time it took from the point it started shooting at DD to the amount of time it got to him was WAY to long to be anything considered Mach Speed.

I’m not being overly specific about anything. I’m just pointing out people on this site overrate they hell out of Diana’s combat speed. Blocking bullets and reacting to objects is classified as reaction speed.

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#646 Posted by Emanresu_20 (3113 posts) - - Show Bio

@red_ruby_petal:

Also in your argument about her throwing the soldiers back because of speed... why would they be falling the oppsosite direction of where she was traveling? The shock wave would have launched them forward past her.

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#647 Posted by DaSalvadore (455 posts) - - Show Bio

Some of the arguments and extrapolations in this thread are insane. Saying that anything Carol did was either against fodder or space shifts with no feats so they can't be counted at all is nuts. It would like saying you can't say Diana reacted in bullet time because we don't know that the specific gun used in JL was firing proper bullets but instead fired slow-ass bullets that anyone could see.

You can't say Diana auto wins because she has a sword even if I'd agree Carol probably doesn't have amazing piercing protection. One of Star Force used an energy blade and Carol has obviously trained to both use and fight against a sword-type weapon. You also can't say Diana easily absorbs Carol's energy attacks just because she did that wacky shit in WW vs Ares' lightning that I've got a feeling will be totally ignored outside of her own films.

For me, Carol wins but it's not a curb. She blasts Diana a few times, Diana gets pissed and starts fighting proper and ends up slices Carol deep. Carol wins through an AOE, energy blast, taking Diana into space or sheer war of attrition.

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#648 Posted by IPvMan (866 posts) - - Show Bio

Still Wonder Woman.

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#649 Posted by ghomes (55 posts) - - Show Bio

carol stomp stop WW wank.

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#650 Posted by EcoBlitz (6101 posts) - - Show Bio

I like how people want Diana to win so bad they are now scaling her off Superman and kryptonians and saying she’s better than doomsday in some way. Lol that’s how you know the wanking is strong.