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#451 Edited by Mr_Shazam0920 (5266 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman:

So from brute strength we get shining lights and a yellowish discharge. Yeah, got it. That’s a reach you and you know it. Also, what narrative fact?! What director‘s statements? Those are the Bracers of Submission. Those are not standard issue, otherwise she wouldn’t be the only Amazonian doing that attack. That discharge is her innate ability, that isn’t like a Thunderclap from Hulk

https://youtu.be/S25PTyHVRPc

At the 50 second mark, that’s the same light show from her God Mode

https://youtu.be/krZXtX9d4TU

At the 1:27 mark there is even electricity... How much more evidence do you need?!

Also, those shockwaves were not produced by her besides the one headbutt she landed on Superman. Let’s stop this. And Carol would not be affected by those headbutts. She easily walked through multiple ships hitting her at supersonic soeeds and laughed it off. Not to mention falling from space to Earth twice like no big deal

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#452 Posted by godzilla44 (7597 posts) - - Show Bio

Good fight but WW's gear gives her the win.

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#453 Posted by MrTrey (601 posts) - - Show Bio
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The bracer shockwaves originating from her divine energy instead of just raw strength isn't making a great case for Marvel winning, it actually makes it worse for her. Diana's one of the few live-action speedster bricks with hax, specifically telekinesis and its more advanced form in matter manipulation, as we see in the gif with her ability to disintegrate matter. This same divine energy allowed Zeus to just straight-up make a big island while he was dying, and Diana overpowered the guy who killed him with the same divine power in this gif.

But no, really, for on-screen feats Doomsday walked off a nuke and was hurting Superman, who survived it while poisoned, and then she shows she's within the same magnitude of strength by blocking his punch and then chopping his arm off.

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And she was also taking a beating from Doomsday and walking it off as well. The MCU high-tiers just don't compare to the DCEU high-tiers physically because duh.

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#454 Edited by destinyman75 (15233 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrtrey: Your joking righ. several MCU folks could easily do better against doomsday

Thor, Strange etc

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#455 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (5266 posts) - - Show Bio

@mrtrey:

I wasn’t arguing the victor of the battle. I was simply arguing that the shockwaves aren’t from her strength. I just called BS on that argument trying to give Diana the strength advantage and making things up lol.

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#456 Posted by Supermanthor (21784 posts) - - Show Bio

lol 10 pages already way more to go

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#457 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (5266 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanthor:

When it comes to Superman, Thor, Diana, And Hulk, this site doesn’t know what to do with themselves lol.

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#458 Posted by Supermanthor (21784 posts) - - Show Bio

@supermanthor:

When it comes to Superman, Thor, Diana, And Hulk, this site doesn’t know what to do with themselves lol.

they are poster boys and girls lmao

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#459 Posted by IPvMan (866 posts) - - Show Bio

And let's not forget when Wonder Woman was able to restrain an adapting Doomsday, only reason her grip failed is because she lost her anchor point.

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Carol really doesn't have much of a strength advantage through scaling, she's actually a lot weaker. Someone in the ballpark of a Kryptonian would manhandle her, not to mention Diana has a sword so yeah...

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#460 Posted by DarkPsychicLord_Prime (4158 posts) - - Show Bio

Ignoring the alt account #348402 of MOTM, Carol blitzes Diana.

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#461 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (5266 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkpsychiclord_prime:

Yes!!

So for it has been BlackPhillip

KyleBrovwhatever

And now IPvMan

From what I can remember.

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#462 Posted by DarkPsychicLord_Prime (4158 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkpsychiclord_prime:

Yes!!

So for it has been BlackPhillip

KyleBrovwhatever

And now IPvMan

From what I can remember.

I think they have been quite a few more, lol. Let's just accept the fact that he's gonna keep coming, and we can recognize him because he always posts the same gifs, wank and lowball.

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#463 Posted by yuuki157 (359 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman: i don't think this put WW above Carol

Carol held on an biggest missile coming at hypersonic speed

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#464 Posted by xZone (10347 posts) - - Show Bio

So Diana restraining Doomsday is totally fine as a feat, but Thor moving a ring of Nidavellir the same way is not ok?.... Sigh

X

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#465 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (5266 posts) - - Show Bio

@thorthunder98:

I can understand man, her durability and strength is definitely up there she just needs that one on one fight with a high tier to show us how truly powerful she can be. Fair enough.

If it is of any consolation at the end of the movie she casually sent Yon Rogg hurdling hundreds of feat with a casual blast with no intention of actually killing him. That’s not that bad of a striking/energy feat.

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#466 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (5266 posts) - - Show Bio

@xzone:

You new here or something ?

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#467 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (5266 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkpsychiclord_prime:

Oh yeah, and the same key words like “fodder” and “headcannon”. No matter how much he gets destroyed in debates he’ll always come back.

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#468 Edited by Red_Ruby_Petal (8262 posts) - - Show Bio
@xzone said:

So Diana restraining Doomsday is totally fine as a feat, but Thor moving a ring of Nidavellir the same way is not ok?.... Sigh

X

Diana restraining Doomsday was her first strength feat in her first appearance in a movie. If not for street level feats from the WW movie which happened long before B v S and if not for getting owned in JL, she would have obviously been in the exact same league as Superman. Its her first appearance to establish her feats and by then none of these should have been outliers.

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#469 Edited by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (12148 posts) - - Show Bio

Diana restraining Doomsday is based on a common misconception. She didn't really do anything, he easily broke out of her grip once he actually started trying.

Looking back at the scene he didn't really seem to be trying that hard to break out of Diana's lasso, he was either busy charging up another AoE attack or resisting the effects of the lasso. To further elaborate on this, after Batman shot him with a K-grenade and Clark stabbed him right in the chest with the K-spear, he still managed to break out of Diana's grip rather effortlessly, despite of being heavily weakened/dying, and on top of it all he had enough strength left within' him to impale Superman with that spike, killing him as a result.

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So yeah, she didn't restrain shit.

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#470 Edited by Red_Ruby_Petal (8262 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebestofthebest: There shouldn't be any problem with her being able to restrain doomsday especially in her debut appearance. She did block full attacks from Doomsday and held her own while Superman was at the backstage and at the very least would be in the same league in strength.

Its only due to comicvine double standards that they need to make MCU and DCEU tiers happen and I am incredibly disappointed by that.

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#471 Edited by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (12148 posts) - - Show Bio

@red_ruby_petal: Oh yeah, blocking his punch, that was quite impressive. The JL movie kinda nerfed her, BvS Wonder Woman would've kicked Steppen's arse without any sort of troubles. Shame.

Edit:

Its only due to comicvine double standards that they need to make MCU and DCEU tiers happen and I am incredibly disappointed by that.

I understand where you're coming from. But that's kinda how it is.

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#472 Posted by RudeBomberBoy01 (4557 posts) - - Show Bio

MOTM is back. Oh boy...

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#473 Posted by NiteLite (2722 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain Marvel.

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#474 Edited by Aquatic_Pianist (694 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman said:

Carol really doesn't have much of a strength advantage through scaling, she's actually a lot weaker. Someone in the ballpark of a Kryptonian would manhandle her, not to mention Diana has a sword so yeah...

So you’re saying through scaling, Diana is much stronger than Carol, and she has strength comparable to a Kryptonian...alright.

Superman is at his strongest after his resurrection in Justice League, and generally considered to be superior even to Doomsday. This is shown when he gives his greatest feat of strength yet, lifting a Russian apartment.

  • Via this article, an average 2,200 square foot, 2 level home is about 605,000 pounds, or 302.5 tons.
  • Via this article, 64% of Russian (where this scene takes place) live in apartments smaller than 60 square meters, or 646 square feet. That’s roughly one-third the floor space of a 302.5 ton home. Let’s say one apartment is 100 tons for a nice round number. It’s likely less because the home includes another floor of materials, an attic, its own roof, etc, that an apartment doesn’t, but to benefit Superman let’s say one Russian apartment is 100 tons.
  • The building Superman lifted has five floors, each floor having a row of 13 windows and a balcony. From the Russian apartment article, it looks like there are typically two windows and a balcony for each apartment. Assuming that each apartment in the building Superman lifted is one floor and has two windows and one balcony,
  • 4.25 apartments per floor and 5 floors...
  • 4.25 apartments x 5 floors = 4.25(100 tons) x 5 = 2,125 tons.

This building feat is considered Superman’s best raw strength feat yet, and I’ve estimated it’s just over 2000 tons. He could well be lifting more, but I think my estimation is accurate enough to assure that he isn’t lifting significantly more than 2000 tons.

So you’re basically saying that Wonder Woman has strength comparable to a Kryptonians, so she can lift over 2000 tons.

Now for Captain Marvel...hooooo boy.

This feat can be extremely lowballed or have a bunch of assumptions made to attempt to assess Carol’s feat more accurately, but either way it is does not look good for Wonder Woman.

Lowballed:

  • The missile is very big and I'm assuming it is made from very durable, dense alien metal, so it is likely much heavier than any missile or rocket made on Earth so far. Since it also comes from an extremely advanced alien civilization, I assume it's engines are much more powerful than anything on Earth, but for the sake of estimation I will assume that it has the same mass and thrust as the Saturn V rocket, the largest and most powerful rocket ever made.
  • Saturn V when fully loaded had a mass of 2,950,000 kg, and its first stage engines produced 35,100,000 Newtons of thrust. If it was propelling itself straight into the ground, the total force on the rocket would be gravity and its thrust.
  • With constant acceleration, the warheads would be going extremely fast, but I’ll lowball its speed before Carol caught it to Mach 1, 343 m/s.
  • It takes about six seconds for Carol to slow the missile to a stop, so she applied an acceleration of 57.1 m/s^2 on the missile.
  • The total force Carol exerted can be determined by adding the net force on the missile, m*a, plus the force of gravity, m*g, plus the thrust from the engine, t.

Force = m*a + m*g + t = (2,950,000 kg * 57.1 m/s^2) + (2,950,000 kg * 9.81 m/s^2) + 35,100,000 N = 232484500 N

That's equal to 26132.30 tons.

Some logical assumptions just make things look even worse for Diana.

  • The warhead is gigantic and looks to have much more mass than Saturn V based on its construction, so I’ll say it has five times Saturn V’s mass.
  • The warhead is capable of traveling from at least low earth orbit to the surface of earth in minutes. I’ll say two minutes.
  • Therefore, its assumed mass is 14,750,000 kg and its acceleration is 277.8 m/s^2.
  • If Carol caught the warhead 30 seconds before it would have struck the ground, and slowed it down to a standstill in six seconds, she would have exerted 103,910,800,000 Newtons of force, or 11,680,038.56 tons.

So Carol’s feat is at absolute minimum 25 thousand tons, and it could range to possibly over 10 million tons when we factor in movie time and other assumptions.

Conclusion: Carol’s feat of overpowering the warhead puts her strength far beyond even DCEU Superman, whom you just stated is comparable in strength to Wonder Woman. So yes, Diana is not comparable to Carol at all.

Just the opposite way you want her to be. ;-)

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#475 Edited by IPvMan (866 posts) - - Show Bio

@aquatic_pianist: That calc has too many assumptions in it to be taken seriously.

Superman can shift tectonic plates. The strength argument begins and ends there by feats. Even so he can hold back Aquaman with one hand, the same Aquaman with a 500000 ton lifting feat of pushing a submarine out of water.

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So unless you're willing to say Arthur is stronger than Clark, I think we can pretty safely scale him past Arthur. That's 500000 tons in one hand pretty effortlessly. He's holding another multi thousand tonner in the other hand. Captain Marvel struggling to throw a warhead in space is not as impressive as moving tectonic plates, or even Aquaman's feat. She's massively weaker in strength than DCEU Kryptonians lol.

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#476 Edited by Mr_Shazam0920 (5266 posts) - - Show Bio

@aquatic_pianist:

Somehow your calc can’t be taken seriously, then in the same breath he says that Superman can shift tectonic plates and that the submarine feat is 500,000 tons lol.

What a clown.

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#477 Edited by IPvMan (866 posts) - - Show Bio

@mr_shazam0920: I swear some MCU fanboys do such a good job of embarrassing themselves... Lol. Just because I'm a better debater than you doesn't mean you have to be salty all the time. Yeah the submarine feat is at least 500000 tons as calced with a lot less assumptions than what was in @aquatic_pianists headcanon.

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It's also a narrative fact Superman shifted a tectonic plate and is entirely consistent with DCEU power levels.

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Like damn dude, I know you hate facts but sometimes you just have to admit when the jig is up. You're facing overwhelming evidence here so further denial is just going to make you look more delusional.

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#478 Posted by RudeBomberBoy01 (4557 posts) - - Show Bio

Yup he's back. Let's see how long MOTM lasts this time.

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#479 Posted by CaptainSweatpan (1868 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman: Hey MOTM, why do you keep using a newspaper headline as a feat?

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#480 Edited by Emanresu_20 (3113 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman:

Aquaman has NEVER repeated that feat out of what we aand the Movoe director himself said that Altantiand are just as sting as Kryptonians she. They are in Water. Most of your arguments this entire thead have either been false accustations or half truths.

Also smooth move trying to say Diana’s strength scales to a kryptonian and then right after showing her getting overpowered by Superman with one arm LMAO

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#481 Posted by Mr_Shazam0920 (5266 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman:

You haven’t watched the video I’m assuming.. Did you not hear all of the assumptions he was making? That is the biggest highball of the submarine feat that exists. Not even the biggest WODC fanboys have Aquaman’s strength that high on this site. And I’m not an MCU fanboy, stop calling people fanboys when you have been banned multiple times for being just that.. a fanboy.

Also a feat from a newspaper clipping is legit? And you back it up saying “a narrative fact” and think that’s going to slide. Just like last night with Diana’s bracers where you got destroyed. I hate to break to it you but it is a “narrative fact” that Thor took the full force of a star. But let’s see your mental gymnastics in that one.

And somehow a WBH level feat is “consistent with DCEU power levels” lmao!

Your arguments are paper thin but somehow in your mind it is “overwhelming evidence”. When you keep getting destroyed in arguments you just stop replying and then go make another alt.

In your own words, the jig is up, kid.

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#482 Posted by ThEBeStOfTheBeST (12148 posts) - - Show Bio

I mean, not to start a shit show or anything. The tectonic plate was first referenced in the DoJ prequel comic, and subsequently highlighted in the movie itself directed by Snyder.

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Kinda makes it more believable, eh? But.. whether it's legit or not is entirely dependent on you.

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#483 Posted by Amonfire1776 (3175 posts) - - Show Bio

Carol Stomps...Wonder Woman is not that consistent and can be overwhelmed by someone like Steppenwolf...

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#484 Posted by incursion2 (2266 posts) - - Show Bio
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#485 Edited by Supermanthor (21784 posts) - - Show Bio
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#486 Posted by deactivated-5d0b495e7009f (1844 posts) - - Show Bio

Carol Stomps...Wonder Woman is not that consistent and can be overwhelmed by someone like Steppenwolf...

I wouldn't say she is inconsistent but yeah Carol has better feats via Binary

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#487 Edited by the_wspanialy (4165 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebestofthebest said:

I mean, not to start a shit show or anything. The tectonic plate was first referenced in the DoJ prequel comic, and subsequently highlighted in the movie itself directed by Snyder.

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Kinda makes it more believable, eh? But.. whether it's legit or not is entirely dependent on you.

Nice catch.

@amonfire1776 said:

Carol Stomps...Wonder Woman is not that consistent and can be overwhelmed by someone like Steppenwolf...

Yeah, beceuse it didn't take a coalition of humans, Amazons, Atlantians and Olympians to merely repel Steppenwolf and his forces...

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#488 Posted by CyberpunkCop (3406 posts) - - Show Bio

Carol stomps better in every conceivable way

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#489 Posted by EcoBlitz (5292 posts) - - Show Bio
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#490 Posted by Aquatic_Pianist (694 posts) - - Show Bio

@thebestofthebest said:

I mean, not to start a shit show or anything. The tectonic plate was first referenced in the DoJ prequel comic, and subsequently highlighted in the movie itself directed by Snyder.

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Kinda makes it more believable, eh? But.. whether it's legit or not is entirely dependent on you.

I wouldn’t have a problem with the tectonic plate feat at all if it was simply on screen, then I would gladly accept Superman as that strong. It’s why I think Thor is physically stronger than Superman because of him moving the rings. He never had an on screen feat before Infinity War close to that level, or any kind of significant lifting feat at all, so we couldn’t gauge his upper limit until he moved the rings and opened the gate. It’s the same situation with Superman at the moment. We get a lot of statements about his strength, but on screen he has never demonstrated his super strength while showing strain with a quantifiable feat, so he know his strength is potentially MUCH higher, but we just can’t gauge it yet.

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#491 Edited by Mister_Surreal (11587 posts) - - Show Bio

@erkan12 said:

1- Captain Marvel survived several star craft explosions with zero damage, and she did that on space where it's impossible to survive for other beings such as Maw.

2- WW's sword can't even seriously threat the other beings with less durability such as Doomsday or Steppenwolf. She sliced off a mindless Doomsday's arm after trying hundred of times and she still fails to do the same for a second time. And she even fails to put down Steppenwolf even with Aquaman's help. The same Steppen dies to his fodder parademons.

3- WW's bullet time speed is nothing in front of someone who can move faster than space crafts at space.

And the guy still believes he is objective.

Be careful, you're bias is showing. I gave you an explanation as to why Diana's combat speed is vastly greater than Captain Marvel's and yet you still equate travel speed to how fast someone is in a fight. You also forgot the fact that she cut off Doomsday's arms despite him having tanked a nuke, and yet Captain Marvel somehow wouldn't get her limbs or head cut off. Not only that but you continuously reference times that Wonder Woman is clearly nerfed for the sake of the plot. Yeah, I'm the one who is the fanboy.

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#492 Posted by EcoBlitz (5292 posts) - - Show Bio

You know it’s wank when Diana who blocks attack 98% of the time has better durability than all mcu high tiers lol

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#493 Posted by ANTHP2000 (28775 posts) - - Show Bio

Diana unless Carol is FTL or something which seems to be a popular argument i haven't looked into yet.

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#494 Posted by DaJobberGod08X (210 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman said:

And let's not forget when Wonder Woman was able to restrain an adapting Doomsday, only reason her grip failed is because she lost her anchor point.

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Carol really doesn't have much of a strength advantage through scaling, she's actually a lot weaker. Someone in the ballpark of a Kryptonian would manhandle her, not to mention Diana has a sword so yeah...

Yet she couldnt restrain Wolf by herself??

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#495 Posted by Mister_Surreal (11587 posts) - - Show Bio

Diana unless Carol is FTL or something which seems to be a popular argument i haven't looked into yet.

She is around that level in travel speed, not combat speed like the MCU fanboys seem to always forget.

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#496 Posted by ANTHP2000 (28775 posts) - - Show Bio

@mister_surreal: Combat speed or not, no one in the DCEU can react to something FTL AFAIK. Not Diana anyway.

But idk about this argument, and if it's full of nitpicked fan calcs I'm not buying.

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#497 Posted by Mister_Surreal (11587 posts) - - Show Bio

@anthp2000 said:

@mister_surreal: Combat speed or not, no one in the DCEU can react to something FTL AFAIK. Not Diana anyway.

But idk about this argument, and if it's full of nitpicked fan calcs I'm not buying.

Flying super at FTL speeds doesn't help in a H2H fight, especially not when it takes you time to build up that speed. Otherwise we could make arguments like Silver Surfer blitz every opponent. Hence the two different categories of speed.

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#498 Edited by Aquatic_Pianist (694 posts) - - Show Bio

@ipvman said:

@aquatic_pianist: That calc has too many assumptions in it to be taken seriously.

You dare to criticize my calculations when you have never crunched a single number throughout the history of all your banned accounts on this site? All you need to see is “assumptions” and you immediately discount the feat when it comes to Marvel characters, but you completely ignore the nature of my assumptions. I made assumptions that extremely lowballed how strong Carol would be, so she is definitely much stronger than that. Even so, her best feat is AT LEAST over 10 times better than Superman’s.

Superman can shift tectonic plates. The strength argument begins and ends there by feats.

Your double standard is so apparent its as if you aren’t trying to hide it. An on screen feat backed up with reasonable calculations can’t be counted, but a hidden easter egg referencing another Superman movie is, especially since Superman has NEVER demonstrated that kind of strength on screen? And you call it a FEAT?! You’re ridiculous and you know it.

Even so he can hold back Aquaman with one hand, the same Aquaman with a 500000 ton lifting feat of pushing a submarine out of water.

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I endorse the calculation made for the submarine feat and I agree with it. But you must be trying to deceive everyone on this thread with that BS. Because either you didn’t watch the DC movies, which I know you have, or you are completely ignoring an important narrative.

Arthur is not nearly as strong out of the water as he is in it. Thats one of his most important characteristics and you are completely ignoring it to support your BS, which only makes you look bad.

So unless you're willing to say Arthur is stronger than Clark, I think we can pretty safely scale him past Arthur.

We can safely scale him past Arthur WHEN ARTHUR IS OUT OF THE WATER. In water, Arthur is stronger than Superman by feats, but we haven’t seen Superman’s full potential yet. As of now, Arthur is stronger than Superman in the water, but far, far weaker out of it.

That's 500000 tons in one hand pretty effortlessly.

Are they in the water? NO.

He's holding another multi thousand tonner in the other hand.

Wonder Woman has NEVER demonstrated a multi thousand ton feat. The absolute best she’s demonstrated is when she stopped Doomsday’s arm with a strike, which I calculated to be 500 tons of force. That is NOT a multi thousand ton feat.

Captain Marvel struggling to throw a warhead in space

Either you are blind or you are lying. Carol wasn’t in space when she stopped the warhead, she was well into Earth’s atmosphere.

is not as impressive as moving tectonic plates,

Which Superman has never done...

or even Aquaman's feat.

So you support calculations you didn’t even make only when they support DC characters? You’re so biased it’s pathetic. And my calculation considering the warhead’s likely mass and acceleration put Carol’s feat to be as much as 10 million tons, far beyond anything Clark or Arthur has done so far.

She's massively weaker in strength than DCEU Kryptonians lol.

Evidently not.

And even if she wasn’t, this thread is about Carol vs Diana, and Carol has every single bit of evidence for her and every single bit of evidence against Diana to demonstrate that she is far stronger than Diana.

And demonstrate that you are capable of basic math before criticizing someone’s calculations before supporting another. Because either you are cherry picking, or you aren’t capable of math, which would explain a lot.

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#500 Edited by EcoBlitz (5292 posts) - - Show Bio

@wyldsong said:

@ecoblitz: I believe, you guys are seriously overplaying Carol here. Maybe Endgame will change all of this, but as of now, I call it like I see it.

You didn’t answer my question. So you believe Wonder Woman can react to massively hypersonic bullrushes?