MCU Captain America vs MCU Fandral

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DreadPirateMike

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#101  Edited By DreadPirateMike

Hello there. New member here. I’d perused this thread before after coming across it on a random web search, but only thought to actually chime in when I noticed activity with in the past couple months, and after Ragnarok. Not that Fandral got any new feats in Ragnarok, unless taking a second knife to actually finish him off counts as some kind of durability feat. Not gonna lie, I’m still kinda salty about that. He didn’t even get a damn line.

Anyway, I don’t know that I have anything game changing to add, but there are a couple details that haven’t been discussed in much detail so far. The Battle of Vanaheim give Fandral some additional feats, for instance. Sure, he DID get tagged with a haymaker, another indication of his not quite perfect situational awareness, but to be fair, Cap takes the occasional sucker punch in big chaotic fights too. In any case, Fandral shook it off pretty much immediately in order to kick another foe closing from behind, and then grab yet another’s hand to redirect point blank gunfire onto a target of his choosing. Now, granted, we don’t know exactly how superhuman those guys were, although they must have been reasonably hefty in order to go toe to toe with Asgardian soldiers in the first place, but Fandral was mowing through them just as fast as Cap deals with his usual opposition, and he was still grinning and quipping at battle’s end. Obviously, neither this one scene, nor all of his fight scenes put together can equal Steve’s multiple films’ worth, it still adequately backs up his reputation as a very tough and capable fighter, noteworthy among his people for his speed and reflexes.

As for the scene that has been brought up repeatedly, Fandral versus the three nameless Asgardian soldiers, consider the agility and reaction speed that required. First, he has to pull off a rope swing from one moving aircraft onto an empty spot of deck on a second. I have no idea how fast they were moving exactly, but given that his original ship was performing evasive maneuvers while being actively shot at, I’d be impressed if even that much was humanly possible, never mind easy. Second, note that he doesn’t even observably hesitate to study his trajectory. Just a flippant quip, and off he goes. Cats take longer than that to study a jump between two stationary points. And finally, see how awkward he looks in mid air, right after he lets go of the rope. The soldiers clearly see him coming, and he still manages to correct and go on the attack before even one of them is prepared to fight back. Even were we to discount that he proceeds to one shot each of them without any particular effort made to bypass their armor, downing one of them with nothing more than a solid kick to the midsection, I think it’d still be pretty clear that he blows your standard Asgardian out of the water in both skill AND raw physical prowess. And it has been most capably demonstrated what your standard Asgardian can do.

So where does that leave Cap? Well...his case is a little confusing. Before Endgame, I have said that Steve would’ve done a heck of a lot better in a rematch with Loki. Yes, he obviously improved as a fighter, but his physical feats just got better and better with every successive appearance. Jumping out of an airplane without a parachute, overpowering a helicopter with nothing but his biceps of justice, trading punches with Iron Man, even BRIEFLY slowing down friggin Thanos...by rights, he should have at least massively narrowed the physical gap with a REGULAR Asgardian. But the fact that he still struggled against his 2012 counterpart, who Loki manhandled like a puppy tossing around a chew toy, muddles things.

My own personal take on it is to grant the more recent Captain America the benefit of the doubt, and guess that he was holding back at least somewhat. Perhaps out of concern for what seriously injuring himself would do to the timeline? I don’t know exactly what the in universe explanation would be for him getting stronger over time, but it’s what the feats show. Thus, while I will agree with the general consensus, granting skill to Steve and stats to Fandral, the gap may not be quite so wide as assumed in either case.

Ultimately, however, I will still give this to Fandral in a solid majority of matches. It comes down to equipment, and experience. Consider the worlds they come from, and I think it’s fairly clear cut that Fandral has dealt with opponents carrying shields a whole lot more often than Steve had fought trained swordsmen. And that would just be regular blades, not Asgardian weapons capable of hurting Thor. I suspect Steve could indeed injure Fandral with a good solid shield hit, but all the above factors taken together with melee range and better armor mean Fandral could hurt Steve more with far less trouble. Steve does potentially have the element of surprise on his side; we have no reason to assume Fandral has ever seen a shield used as a discus before, never mind one used so well it may as well be a smart weapon. But Cap takes a fairly major risk using it that way. If the throw is either tanked or deflected, then he’s unarmed until he can retrieve it, and at an even bigger disadvantage. And both those outcomes are entirely possible.

So...I guess I’ll say Fandral, 7-8 out of 10. He’s no Thor, but he’s damn good, and still a living tank by human standards. But I’ll never entirely rule out Steve being able to find or create some opening he could take advantage of.

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RajjarsAlt

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#102  Edited By RajjarsAlt

Fandral > random AoS Asgardians > Grant Ward > John Wick > IG Thanos > Dormammu > Ego > Odin > Surtur > Hela >>> Fandral

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ANTHP2000

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#103 ANTHP2000  Online

Fandral.

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Juicers

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Cap won't do shit against elite asgardian warrior

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Greysentinel365

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Cap without issue.

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WolverineBatmanFTW

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Cap has no trouble fighting people well above him stat-wise (Ultron, Loki, Iron-Man, Spider-Man etc.) and Fandral lacks feats to suggest he's on a similar level skill-wise so I can see Cap winning this without too much trouble.

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DreadPirateMike

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@wolverinebatmanftw: Yeah, it’s true he has experience fighting people like that. But considering he clearly never had any chance at actually beating half of your examples, and had help with another, “no trouble” seems like kind of a stretch.

The fact is that, at best, he’s going to have to work darn hard just to hurt Fandral. That’s an uphill battle. Yes, he’s managed those before. But seldom against somebody with an experience edge measured in centuries.

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WolverineBatmanFTW

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@dreadpiratemike:

Work hard to hurt him? Steve was putting cracks and dents in an Iron Man armour, and as relatively weak as that armour was, I don't see Fandral having superior durability to it, considering that armour survived being piled by multiple falling cars.

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DreadPirateMike

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@wolverinebatmanftw: I’d argue Steve was working pretty darn hard in that fight, and a good deal of Tony’s battle damage was inflicted by Bucky and his super arm, who also allowed Cap several breathers he won’t get here.

But I agree, Fandral doesn’t have the feats to put his durability above Iron Man’s. The best feat of that sort that I can think of for him comes from the first Thor movie, where he survived being rag dolled by the point blank detonation of a Destroyer blast and hurled through the window of a diner that was then blown up with him inside it. Regardless, I hope we can agree the fact that we see him a minute later on his feet without a scratch is not half bad.

So yes, I stand by my assertion that Cap will have his work cut out for him duplicating that level of force.

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DreadPirateMike

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#110  Edited By DreadPirateMike

Since the last post, I have slipped in mud and fell onto pavement whilst attempting to walk my dog, and had some further thoughts as I worked to get the bleeding stopped. So, a couple clarifying points regarding said post.

We can’t actually be sure that Fandral was in the diner when the Destroyer cast his Death Ray Gaze on it. We know that Volstagg was, and we can probably assume Hogun as well since we see him taking cover in the ruins, but we don’t see Fandral again until he’s helping Volstagg get clear of the battle. So either he took that second blast like a champ, or he recovered from the first one quickly enough to get clear before the second strike. But really, either one speaks well of his durability.

And again, I don’t say this puts his durability distinctly above Iron Man. But it doesn’t really need to be. His existing feats are enough, in my opinion, to ensure that Steve will need to go all out against an opponent like that. Doing any serious injury will require a good, solid hit with the edge of his shield to a vital area, due to the armor if nothing else, and Fandral has demonstrated the skill to at least make that a real chore. Fandral’s weapon, meanwhile, has significantly greater reach and speed in a melee fight, and won’t require nearly such a solid contact to bring the pain.

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Johndeyvido

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MCU Cap is below any elite Asgardian, he can't hurt them at all. Loki a weaker Frost giant/asgardian was able to survive the hulk smash and wasn't even KO'ed. Anyone who thinks Cap can replicate that damage is trolling.

Fandral 10/10

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DreadPirateMike

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@johndeyvido: See, I’m just not entirely convinced that he couldn’t hurt one at all. The best I could imagine him doing with his bare hands is to possibly stun an Asgardian for a moment, but that MIGHT be enough for a hard follow up strike with the edge of his shield. He’s got some pretty decent damage output feats with such attacks. If he could crack Ultron with a shield throw, he may be able to make it an Asgardian bleed.

The problem is that there’s a difference between cutting Fandral and incapacitating him, and his center mass, the biggest available target, is covered by a nice fancy breastplate. Even the most cinematically useless armor is going to absorb some energy. And we have more than enough showings to say that Fandral is a fast and agile opponent who isn’t going to just stand there and take it.

Basically, what I’m saying is that if Steve manages to tag him on the jugular or something, he might be able to get this done. Against a physically superior enemy who is a skilled fighter in his own right, it’s a longshot. Just not quite impossible.

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Johndeyvido

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@dreadpiratemike:

Hurt and getting KO'ed aren't the same.

A 7yr old boy hitting me would sting a bit but that boy ain't gonna KO me with his punches thats my point. Spiderman is above Cap and an average asgardian is above Spidey. So you get my gist...

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SamJackson

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Cap makes him work for it but he still loses