MCU Captain America vs MCU Fandral

Fandral should win.

@buildhare:

Ward is what, Olympic level in physicals? Stopping an attack from him isn't impressive for Cap or an Asgardian.

You missed the effortlessly part. I have no doubt that Cap could block it but not without considerable effort.

Only part of this feat that's beyond Cap. But being immune to a knife thrust from Ward doesn't mean an Asgardian can handle strikes with better piercing damage than minigun fire.

What piercing damage are you talking about? As far as I know, Cap mostly deals blunt force damage. I don't remember him using any piercing weapons.

Only the hinges matter and they're regular steel, not at all above Cap's level of strength (he's forced open a locked armored door by breaking it in Avengers, although I can't find it apparently).

Again, you missed the casually part. I never claimed Cap couldn't do it but it'd require more effort from him than it did from Elliot.

Skill wise no doubt, physicals...probably not. Unlike Loki or even Volstagg it's never been shown or even indicated that Fandral is physically impressive amongst Asgardians.

That's simply not true. I am re-posting this gif originally posted by @rockette. Here you can clearly see that Fandral basically one-shots all three fodder Asgardian soldiers just like Cap one-shots his regular human opponents most of the time. He's definitely physically superior to your average Asgardian.

Loki is above all of them bar Sif (and that's without magic) by feats. They aren't as good as him and that's obvious.

No, that's not obvious. In fact, it's implied in the first Thor film that Loki could actually be weaker than a regular frost giant. Odin, while revealing Loki's true parentage to him, says and I quote " In the aftermath of the battle, I went into the temple and I found a baby, small for a giant's offspring, abandoned, suffering and left to die, Laufey's son."

And during the fight in Jotunheim, the Warriors Three were equally matched with the Frost Giants, so it's highly unlikely that Loki is above them in physicals. Also, I don't think Sif is physically superior to Fandral either. She may be more skilled, sure, but there's nothing to suggest that she's stronger.

Did you want him to punch his head off or something? He staggered and clearly phased him, if you're looking for something that says the guy who hurt IM with his fists can't hurt Fandral that gif isn't it.

C'mon man, tell me honestly, do you really believe that he was hurt by that punch? Watch the whole fight again if you have to and point out a single instance where Cap had an upper hand.

From what I can see, Loki was tagged by Cap 3 times during the fight and not a single time did it seem like he was in any trouble. He even tanked Cap's shield throw, a feat that even Ultron failed to replicate. This puts Asgardian durabilty above Ultron's / IM's. In fact, this fight wouldn't have lasted this long if Loki wasn't holding back.

Simply put, Cap is out of his weight class here. Although I don't think this is a stomp but there is no way for Cap to win here. All he can do is delay the inevitable.

@buildhare said:

@the_fallen_lord:

I don't think those gifs are on the same level as the others.

@arcus1

How would Fandral win this fight?

I could see him being stronger, but the physical gap between Cap and Asgardians like Sif and the Warriors 3 isn't anywhere near as wide as the gap between Cap and Ultron/Iron Man, so it's not like that alone is enough to beat him. Fandral should be more skilled than those guys, but he's still not on Cap's level.

A guy who can walk this off shouldn't have much trouble with Asgardian physicals;

Except Cap couldn't beat Ultron or Iron Man on his own

Again, this is in no small part going off of what I think should happen in theory. In theory, Loki's physicals wouldn't be that different from Fandrals (especially considering Fandral's just a warrior while Loki's got his magic stuff), and while Cap's improved from Avengers, he wasn't able to really do any damage to Loki. In theory, an elite Asgardian warrior should be skilled enough to contend with Cap and make use of his superior physicals to win.

That being said, Cap's got way more feats than Asgardians as a whole, let alone just Fandral, so his abilities are very well fleshed out while Asgardains are more hypothetical (especially in regards to an Asgardian's upper limits compared to someone like Cap).

Way I see it, Fandral should win via in universe logic and scaling off of other Asgardians, but going very strictly by what we've been explicitly shown, Cap would probably win

C'mon bro.

You know that isn't so.

Yo?

@rockette:

Nah Cap would literally Curbstomp him.

He has no feats to suggest he is on par with Cap.

Sif is a better match.

Remember how Cap dealt with Hydra agents in Elevator.And now watch how Fandral beat several asgardians>>>Hydra agents

Man, MCU Asgardians get no respect. Someone should male a respect thread, showing their physical strength, durability, science and magic. It could be a good reference point

LOL at the Cap wank here.

@arcus1:

Except Cap couldn't beat Ultron or Iron Man on his own

I'm aware, but that doesn't make it any less impressive as a feat. None of the Warriors 3 or Sif have physicals or abilities on par or near those guys, and Cap was able to hold his own for an extended period.

Again, this is in no small part going off of what I think should happen in theory. In theory, Loki's physicals wouldn't be that different from Fandrals (especially considering Fandral's just a warrior while Loki's got his magic stuff),

Loki is a frost giant, even a small one should be clearly stronger than an asgardian in universe, and featwise they aren't at all comparable.

and while Cap's improved from Avengers, he wasn't able to really do any damage to Loki.

He was able to stagger him, he didn't really bust out his big moves like shield throws bar one.

In theory, an elite Asgardian warrior should be skilled enough to contend with Cap and make use of his superior physicals to win.

This is kinda baseless. Cap is (in all likelihood) the most skilled person in his realm, yet because Fandral is an Asgardian hes' probably skilled enough to keep up? That's giving him the benefit of the doubt somewhere he hasn't shown he deserves.

That being said, Cap's got way more feats than Asgardians as a whole, let alone just Fandral, so his abilities are very well fleshed out while Asgardains are more hypothetical (especially in regards to an Asgardian's upper limits compared to someone like Cap).

We do know their high ends, mainly being overpowered by random frost giants who were still complete fodder to actual physical powerhouses like Thor.

The best strength feat for an Asgardian is probably Sif's, which at best puts her in the low 10-15 tonner range, which isn't at all dissimilar from Cap's high ends (although in fairness he'd be on the bottom of that scale).

Way I see it, Fandral should win via in universe logic

I think you're misusing that term. In universe logic is that "Average Human<<Average Asgardian" physically. That's indisputable. What isn't in universe logic is saying Cap (who is also <<< the Average human) is inherently inferior to Asgardians because he is still technically human, despite performing feats that make any human look pathetically weak and frail in comparison.

@the_fallen_lord

You missed the effortlessly part. I have no doubt that Cap could block it but not without considerable effort.

I didn't. Assuming Wards feats are Olympic level Cap blows him out of the water strength wise, there's no reason he should have any kind of issue stopping a strike from him.

What piercing damage are you talking about? As far as I know, Cap mostly deals blunt force damage. I don't remember him using any piercing weapons.

Cap's shield bashes and strikes with his limbs are blunt force, when he attacks with the edge of the shield it's piercing;

Again, you missed the casually part. I never claimed Cap couldn't do it but it'd require more effort from him than it did from Elliot.

Again, I didn't. Cap's feat required more effort because the feat itself is much much harder than simply breaking steel hinges;

Breaks the locking mechanism on a huge armoured door (it being heavy and large enough that even when it's not locked it required effort to move), when it pans out you can see there were multiple points where it would've locked in place.

That's simply not true. I am re-posting this gif originally posted by @rockette. Here you can clearly see that Fandral basically one-shots all three fodder Asgardian soldiers just like Cap one-shots his regular human opponents most of the time. He's definitely physically superior to your average Asgardian.

He oneshotted them like Daredevil would the hand. Both are still very clearly human, it's just Daredevil is slightly stronger and hits harder. He did not oneshot them at all like Cap does regular humans;

No, that's not obvious. In fact, it's implied in the first Thor film that Loki could actually be weaker than a regular frost giant. Odin, while revealing Loki's true parentage to him, says and I quote " In the aftermath of the battle, I went into the temple and I found a baby, small for a giant's offspring, abandoned, suffering and left to die, Laufey's son."

I agree with your assesment, Loki is almost certainly weaker than a regular frost giant. Frost Giants being the guys who are still clearly stronger than the strongest of the Warrior's 3 (Volstagg) and the particularly powerful among them can even hurt Thor. Frost Giants are straight up more physically powerful than any non-Thor/Odin Asgardian, being a weak one is in no way a bad thing.

And during the fight in Jotunheim, the Warriors Three were equally matched with the Frost Giants,

They were able to beat them because they were;

• Armed
• Were actually skilled

Any actual physical contest had the Giants as the clearly better party.

Also, I don't think Sif is physically superior to Fandral either. She may be more skilled, sure, but there's nothing to suggest that she's stronger.

Nothing except for feats, but okay.

C'mon man, tell me honestly, do you really believe that he was hurt by that punch?

Yes.

Watch the whole fight again if you have to and point out a single instance where Cap had an upper hand.

The intial exchange (blast deflection and first couple of strikes) and when he kicked him. I don't think he ever had much of an edge at any point, but that doesn't mean a whole lot when;

• Cap has improved a lot, especially in skill
• Loki with the staff/gem would murderstomp any one of the Warriors 3 + Sif as well

From what I can see, Loki was tagged by Cap 3 times during the fight and not a single time did it seem like he was in any trouble.

The only hit he took that was like that was the body shot after he swung into the ground, the other hits either snapped his head to the side/backwards (the punch) or straight up got a reaction (the kick, groaning).

He even tanked Cap's shield throw, a feat that even Ultron failed to replicate. This puts Asgardian durabilty above Ultron's / IM's.

I think this is more to do with Cap's morals then anything. At this point he has no idea who Loki is or what he can do (it's literally the first attack in the fight) and has no idea how powerful Asgardians are. Cap could bisect, decapitate or mutilate other human beings with ease (based on doing exactly that to Ultron/Bots) but he doesn't because there's absolutely no need to do so. All he wants to do is put his target out of the fight, if that means killing them, okay. But he's never just straight up slaughtered someone when he knows he can put them down in a way that either won't kill them or isn't needlessly gratuitous.

As far as Cap is concerned Loki is like every other humanoid opponent he had faced thus far. It's only when he's jumping out of the plane after Thor arrives that Widow actually explains what he's up against.

And there's no basis for that statement being true, Ultron and Iron Man have much better piercing resistance feats.

@buildhare: Fandral was ale to beat several asgrdians who are stronger than Cap.

Fandral is clearly stronger than MCU supersoldiers. There's a reason Sif and the Warriors Three along with Thor are the finest warriors of Asgard.They fight on par with Frost Giants and can kill several of them. Fandral basically fodderizes asgardian soldiers who should be stronger than regular asgardians who are clearly much more strong and durable than humans.

It's true Cap has got more feats because obviously he will. He's the lead avenger. A better understanding of Asgardian abilities can be seen in Agents of shield. Multiple occasions that show Asgardians having superior strength feats and durability feats than even MCU supersoldiers.

One weakness that I find in Cap is his lack of piercing force durability. Asgardians are basically immune to knife thrusts from humans and even shotgun and assault rifle fire which MCU cap doesn't have. In case of Blunt force durability cap is more or less similar but I'll still give Elite Asgardians like Fandral an edge over Cap. The same feats which Cap performs with considerable effort like kicking back humans several meters back, Asgardians perform them with very little effort. A regular push from an Asgardian like Lorelei sent a guy several metres away and killed him. There are several other instances like during the berserker staff episode where humans replicate asgardian strength. Also Loki who is either similar or a little superior to Fandral was able to recover from Hulks thrashing in a few moments. Cap would be either dead or in a severely injured state if Hulk did the same.

Maybe Cap can be equated to a regular asgardian or even an asgardian soldier but not Guys like Fandral. They are clearly superior in almost every sphere except maybe skill which is also doubtful since Asgardians live for millenia and warriors like Fandral should be clearly more skilled than Cap.

This is a mismatch but Cap wouldn't go down like in a instant. He'd give a good fight but is sure to be deafeated due to much inferior stats.

@buildhare:

I didn't. Assuming Wards feats are Olympic level Cap blows him out of the water strength wise, there's no reason he should have any kind of issue stopping a strike from him.

Yeah, I don't think so. Cap has had trouble dealing with Olympic level opponents.

Again, I didn't. Cap's feat required more effort because the feat itself is much much harder than simply breaking steel hinges;

No I said it'd be more difficult for Cap to replicate Elliot's feat than it was for Elliot. On the other it'd be easier for Elliot to force open that armored door than it was for Cap.

He oneshotted them like Daredevil would the hand. Both are still very clearly human, it's just Daredevil is slightly stronger and hits harder. He did not oneshot them at all like Cap does regular humans;

Nope. You're ignoring the fact that in the gif you posted, Cap was fighting the enemy. So he kicked that guy with all his might throwing him overboard not caring if he'd live or die.

Whereas Fandral was fighting his fellow Asgardians who were just following their king's command. He is clearly pulling his punches and kicks here.

I agree with your assesment, Loki is almost certainly weaker than a regular frost giant.

Frost Giants being the guys who are still clearly stronger than the strongest of the Warrior's 3 (Volstagg) and the particularly powerful among them can even hurt Thor. Frost Giants are straight up more physically powerful than any non-Thor/Odin Asgardian, being a weak one is in no way a bad thing.

Yeah, I don't think so. Volstagg is clearly shown to be slightly superior or at the very least evenly matched with a Frost Giant. So going by your logic, if Volstagg is stronger than Fandral and he could match a regular sized frost giant then I don't see why Fandral would have any problem whatsoever matching Loki in physicals, who is a smaller and weaker frost giant.

Also, I don't think Sif is physically superior to Fandral either. She may be more skilled, sure, but there's nothing to suggest that she's stronger.

Nothing except for feats, but okay.

What feats exactly? Did she beat Fandral in arm-wrestling or something that I don't remember?

C'mon man, tell me honestly, do you really believe that he was hurt by that punch?

Yes.

No he wasn't, but okay.

The intial exchange (blast deflection and first couple of strikes) and when he kicked him.

...all of which he tanked.

I don't think he ever had much of an edge at any point, but that doesn't mean a whole lot when;

• Cap has improved a lot, especially in skill

Yeah, skill doesn't mean squat if you are not strong enough to hurt your opponent.

• Loki with the staff/gem would murderstomp any one of the Warriors 3 + Sif as well

Loki never used the mind gem on Cap during the fight. And without the gem the staff is nothing special, but just a staff.

The only hit he took that was like that was the body shot after he swung into the ground,

the other hits either snapped his head to the side/backwards (the punch)

Why is this so impressive again? Because it moved Loki's head to the side, that's it? Great.

or straight up got a reaction (the kick, groaning).

I'd react the same way if my 6 yr old niece kicked my head with all her strength. But no, because Cap did it, it was so impressive.

I think this is more to do with Cap's morals then anything. At this point he has no idea who Loki is or what he can do (it's literally the first attack in the fight) and has no idea how powerful Asgardians are. Cap could bisect, decapitate or mutilate other human beings with ease (based on doing exactly that to Ultron/Bots) but he doesn't because there's absolutely no need to do so. All he wants to do is put his target out of the fight, if that means killing them, okay. But he's never just straight up slaughtered someone when he knows he can put them down in a way that either won't kill them or isn't needlessly gratuitous.

I'm sorry, but this is a baseless assumption.

Point is, Cap never holds back. If his shield had connected here, it'd have taken Batroc's head off. So it's highly unlikely that he held back against Loki. In fact, it was Loki who was holding back because he wanted to get captured.

I agree it's impressive, and I'm not sure the Asgardians could beat those guys either

Frost giants weren't that much stronger than Asgardians from what I remember, if the average frost giant had any particular strength advantage it was due to size

Sure, if Cap were to fight Loki now, he'd probably do better as a result of being way more skilled (and arguably a bit stronger than he was in Avengers), but his physicals haven't changed so much that the clear gap between them would be gone

I'm not saying Fandral's skilled simply because he's an Asgardian, it's because he's one of Asgard's top warriors. Now, I'm not saying he's as skilled as Cap, there's no evidence for that, plus they have different fighting styles/specialize in different weapons anyway.

I don't remember them being particularly overpowered by frost giants, and considering Thor's significantly stronger than Cap, being overpowered by Thor isn't that bad

Again, going by feats, Cap's got way more showings than any Asgardian except Thor. However, the limited showings we do have from Asgardians are enough to be at least comparable if not superior to Cap, and coupled with the logic that Fandral's of of Asgard's best warriors, I think he should be able to beat Cap. Can I prove it with tons of hard facts and clear showings? Nope

People in thios forum are overestimating Captain America.

If he couldn't hurt a "Squishy Wizard" as Loki, much less he's going to beat Fandrall.

I feel like people are greatly underestimating captain america and are relying too heavily on secondary canon. Yes, the MCU asgardians could casually crush MCU super soldiers however this is ignoring the fact that Captain America has a tremendous advantage in speed, skill, precision, and maybe even durability. He is a bullet timer, I mean come on!

I feel like Captain America would offer as much a threat to Fandral as Batroc did to Captain America

Fandral 9/10. I'm a diehard cap fanboy, so I'll give him one because I love him :)

@ithemanwithoutfeari: the wank needs to stop for cap. There is no way he would win to a guy who pimpslaps frost Giants and asguardian troops for breakfast.

Pimpslaps ... Yeah definitely.

Last time I checked he got overwhelmed and almost died. Also what feats do casual asgardians and casual frost giant Giants have ?

Cap wins this and its actually not close.

@ithemanwithoutfeari: fandral isn't "casual asgardian". He's one of their best warriors.

"he got overwhelmed and almost died"

If by overwhelmed you mean surprise attacked, then sure. Fandral still beat the frost giants he fought with ease. By that logic, Cap got "overwhelmed" by Batroc and Bucky got "overwhemed" by Natasha twice because they got the sucker punch.

"What feats do casual asgardians and casual frost Giants have"

Gee Sherlock, good question. let's think here...

Casual ten-foot tall frost Giants were capable of sending Thor flying back several feet with a punch to the face. They can burn asgardian skin with a punch, and their skin is completely bulletproof. Asgardians are inferred to be around the same level.

Can Steve send Thor flying with a punch? NO. Can he burn asgardian skin or even GRAZE asgardian skin? NO. Has he demonstrated near enough force to harm an asgardian? NO.

Has Fandral killed several Giants who can put Thor on his ass ? YES. Has he shown enough force to kill or KO an asgardian? YES.

Your argument is wank over 9000. Fandral stomps 10/10 and it's not even close.

@mr_dead_guy:

If by overwhelmed you mean surprise attacked, then sure. Fandral still beat the frost giants he fought with ease. By that logic, Cap got "overwhelmed" by Batroc and Bucky got "overwhemed" by Natasha twice because they got the sucker punch.

You have to be prepared for everything in a all out battle like this. He got overwhelmed. simple as that.

Cap got also attacked by surprise, but not hurt and he still won. Fandral lost.

At least you tried :). Nice lowball attempt tho.

Casual ten-foot tall frost Giants were capable of sending Thor flying back several feet with a punch to the face. They can burn asgardian skin with a punch, and their skin is completely bulletproof. Asgardians are inferred to be around the same level.

Show me where exactly they send Thor flying with a punch. Also since when can Frost Giants use burn attacks ?

Also show me what speed feats and durability feats they have, because as far as I am concerned they have none, since they got one shotted.

Cap would whoop his ass low difficulty. Not even a contest.

@ithemanwithoutfeari : Capitan America could not hurt Loki, he has no chance against Fandrall.

Cap was losing to Loki. He simply isn't on the physical or power level of Asgardians. They are more durable and stronger. That's kind of the point of them, they're 'gods'. Cap couldn't beat Loki in hand to hand and he can't beat an Asgardian warrior. At least by power levels.

@camilopezo: THANK YOU!!! FINALLY, someone has common sense to know a human could NEVER win against an ASGARDIAN!!!

Unless your name is Bruce Banner, then there's a fighting chance :)

Going off in-verse logic and little bit of common sense Fandral should win easily. If you're purely looking at feats than Cap should win.

Yea basically this

Fandral >> Asgardian mook >> Handcuff (Agents of Shield)

Cap was getting stomped by Loki. Loki should be around warriors 3 level if not a little above. Caps punches barely moved Loki, while Loki's casual hits were throwing cap around easily. Cap is definitely losing this fight, but it will be close. If he was fighting sif, I see him getting stomped again. The Iron man feat should not be used at all. Iron man is the worst fighter on the avengers, and cap had his indestructible shield helping him out big time. When he lost it, he could do nothing. Iron man was not fighting smart at all either. Iron man has lasers and anti-tank missiles. He so happened to not use any of those very well during his fight. He could have just cut cap and Bucky in half. The average asguardian should be around cap's level if not above to Luke Cage's level of physicals.

The Cap wank is strong, Fandral wins

Stay strong my friends

If we power scale off of other in-universe Asgardians then Fandral should win based on physicals. Elliot Randolph from Agents of Shield, a middle aged, skinny, average to below average Asgardian who's been pretending to be a human professor for many years, was able to casually rip prison bars off their hinges without straining. Fandral is at least an above average Asgardian and stronger than Elliot. IMO Fandral's physicals are somewhere between Elliot Randolph's level of casually ripping off prison bars and Lady Sif's level of kicking a mobile home.

Alright, you win there. Fandral did get overwhelmed by a surprise frost giant attack. That is still way above anything Cap can do to him. You're grasping at straws

0:28: Fandral pimpslaps a frost giant with two moves, the first severing its ice hand which is powerful enough to pierce asgardian skin: something overcharged uni beams and four elite SHIELD assault rifles at close range couldn't do. Cap's skin was pierced by a handgun.

0:31 A frost giant nook bitch slaps the dude with the beard. Note that he gets knocked back more than Loki did when Cap did a spinning back kick (a move that sent Bucky flying into a van with enough force to dent it)

0:46 Frost giants are strong enough to send shockwaves several meters in concrete: several times more force that cap could hope to deliver; only fazes asgardian with direct hit

0:53 Headbutt fazes Thor

0:54 Punch sends Thor on his ass: basically did what Iron Man's full power repulser blast did

1:33 Frost Giant skin gives bearded guy severe frost burn (not burn attacks like Johnny storm)

Now answer my question with wank logic: When has cap demonstrated skill against opponents around this power level and "whoop his ass low difficulty" and When has cap demonstrated attacks around that level of power against asgardians and/or frost giant level people?

You're making it look like getting sucker punched by the Frost Giant king's guards is a low showing. Considering Fandral handily beat at least two of them before he got sucker stabbed (as well as KTHO'd three asgardian troops in the other clip someone posted), thats actually showing Fandral has more power than Cap has ever shown.

If we scale Fandral to Sif then he should win. He has hundreds of years of experience fighting people much better than Cap, and is stronger and more durable. Cap won't be able to put him down.

Even without scaling, Fandral fighting frost giants puts him far above what Cap can do. Cap can't win this.

This is Fandral fighting average joe Asgardians.

This is what average joe Asgardians can do. Fandral stomps holding back like Loki did.

Did someone actually say Cap's a bullet timer?

LMAO, he has one genuine aim dodging feat, and that's all.

Anyway, Fandral easily.

Pretty much this. Cap can actually contend quite well and probably wins if we go by feats. Fandral seems to have the physical edge but its not that large of a gap. Nothing that Cap hasn't encountered and done well against before.

every asgardian is reasonably superhuman. just because theyre in the background doesnt mean much.

Cap

Fandral

Fandral stomps... he's more skilled and should have strength comparable to Sif and Loki, the former kicked an RV a good 10m and the latter totally demolished Cap and regularly competes with Thor and holds his own.

So this comes down to if cap can get a kill shot with the shield before getting stabbed or KO’d. I’m going with fandral

Fandral was killed by a knife. Guns>knives and Cap's shield>any bullets from a handheld gun since it cut into Ultron when the Quinjet didn't even scratch Ultron. Black Widow solos at least ten Asgardians with a handgun, nevermind Cap. Thor is only slightly better than Fandral, so he'd survive two bullets at most before going down. If a sword can stab Thor's eye out, a gun or anything that does more damage blows off a fodder Asgardian's head. Yup, Fandral can't win this.

Seriously, Cap loses like he lost against Corvus. Cap can hurt Fandral with vibranium, but Fandral isn't just going to stand there and will be using his stat advantage and high level of skill with a sword.

Fandral

I didn't even know his name, but any asgardian can foderize Steve.

@lorenzodesila: Cap won't be fodderized, esp by a fodder asgardian, he'll leave an impression. But he can only do minor damage while Fandral's durability allows him to outlast.

@rebake: He would be foderized as asgardian soldiers did.