@ironstark890134: Cap is only human, amped but still human. He is not even that strong. There are animals much stronger, faster and durable then cap...animals.
Loki hasn't done much aside from taking a few hits from a holding back Thor. I'm not siding with Cap in any way. I'm just saying there's no solid proof that Loki is untouchable by someone on Cap's level.
@ad-arts: have you seen civil war??? Cap is clearly at minimum a 10 Tonner... Restricting and pulling back a helicopter trying to take off, lifting s 59 tons steel beam off Bucky granted it was only part of the beam, but he had also been shot 4 times during the fight against Bucky. Not to mention his fight against Tony and Spider-Man
Loki hasn't done much aside from taking a few hits from a holding back Thor. I'm not siding with Cap in any way. I'm just saying there's no solid proof that Loki is untouchable by someone on Cap's level.
@power_titan: cap is on a whole new level than he was in avengers
He still can't get past Loki's durability (I hate MCU Loki btw). Loki took hits from Hulk and the multi-slams did not even KO him. He still won't feel Cap's Blows. Lots of solid proof that Cap can't hurt Loki in any appreciable way.
@ironstark890134: you do know Loki get shot in the face by assault rifle, he also get a beating from hulk which didn't even K.O. him, he took an explosive arrow in the face and he also took a blast from a destroyer based gun which tear a smoking hot hole in a steel wall.
Depends on how well Loki handles a shield to the throat, how strong he actually is and whether or not the shield can penetrate him (which I'm inclined to believe it could).
Loki's durability is much much greater than Cap. I mean the guy took assault rifle fire to his face and bullets bounced of him during his entry in avengers movie. That feat alone puts his physical durability above Cap. After that he took a beating from hulk. Remember a single kick from hulk broke all the bones of Blonsky, another supersoldier. Loki wasn't even knocked out. He took Hawkeye's explosive arrow to his face and took destroyer based gun's energy to his chest. Loki's physical durability is much above Cap. All these maybe attributed to the fact that he's actually a frost Giant. Frost giant's are strong right. I mean you don't call them giants for nothing.
Btw. Most of the stuff like surviving gun fire from high calibre rounds was displayed by cap as beacuse his shield increases his durability exponentially. Also both Loki and Cap were pushed back several feet by Iron Man's repulsors. That is just inconsistent. Loki should technically shrugg off Rupulsors. But hey Cap's strength and stats have been upgraded to multiple tonner level now after civil war. So you never know. His shield can be deadly. Still it will be hard for cap because Loki's also got his illusions. He can just evade cap multiple times. Dunno if Cap's superhuman sense or reflexes can help him dodge Loki.
@tsol: nope mcu cap is not superhuman,a superhuman wouldnt die from bullet wounds and can lift a car easily(like 2016 colossus) cap is a high tigher street leveler,
Superhuman status requries at least small building level physicall attributes which cap do not possess
cap is just an enhanced human nothing more,imagine hulk would grap him and smash him to the groun,what would happen?his skull would be cracked up and would turn into a pink liguid
1. There are TONS of superhumans who are NOT bulletproof. Such as Spiderman, Sabretooth, Jessica Jones, Green Goblin, Wolverine, Deadpool, Neo, Blade, etc. It is not their piercing durability that we have to focus on, but it is their blunt force durability that qualifies them as a superhuman .
2. So you think an enhanced human can tank full force hits from a blood lusted, morals off 60+ toner and still left standing. If you think so, than you are high as f****d
3. You think MCU Cap can't lift cars ?? If you do think so, then explain to me how can he deadlift the ENTIRE weight of 50+ tons of metal while physically & mentally extremely exhausted ( from fighting Bucky, a superhuman as powerful as himself ) AND incredibly injured ( shot 4 times, stabbed, and tanked multiple hits from Bucky's bionic arm). Or how he can effortlessly push a 60+ tons bulldozer across the length of a football field? For him to be able to lift that much weigh WHILE being in such a ridiculously poor physical & mental condition, or push something that is so heavy with from little to no effort, he would have to be in Class 25. Even if we don't use his high end strength feats, then his mid-level strength feat, such as effortlessly overhead more than half of a ton, throw a 250 kg with enough force to destroy a jeep moving at 60+ mph, throw the 9 foot Ultron who is composed entirely of metal through a concrete pillar with one arm, casually ripped apart titanium bots would put him in Class 5 strength wise.
4. What ??? It doesn't require building level physical attributes to be a superhuman you idiot. Superhumans are being who are either physically or mentally beyond even the level of an enhanced human, which Cap is by consistent feats of showing
5. Hulk is in the highest tier of superhuman level in MCU. He would destroyed ANY superhuman's skull if he grabbed them and smash them into the ground. MCU superhuman like Luke Cage would turn into a "pink liguid" if Hulk gets his hand on them. Only superhumans on his tier, such as Thor wouldn't get destroyed by him.
6. Stop low balling MCU Cap, in every single thread i have gone through, you are the only who is consistently trying to low ball him, and trying to describe him as an enhanced human only, which is something he obviously is not .
I haven't seen CW yet, but I think Cap has more feats and showed better skill.
With that said, Loki's durability makes said skill rather pointless, as Loki (though battered and bruised), survived Hulk repeatedly slamming him into the ground. Cap isn't replicating THAT kind of strength and even that didn't kill him.
@ad-arts: have you seen civil war??? Cap is clearly at minimum a 10 Tonner... Restricting and pulling back a helicopter trying to take off, lifting s 59 tons steel beam off Bucky granted it was only part of the beam, but he had also been shot 4 times during the fight against Bucky. Not to mention his fight against Tony and Spider-Man
I have and I still don't think Cap can do anything here. Have you not seen the fight between Cap and Loki? Loki took his blow like it was nothing. They are not on the same lvl, Cap is impressive among humans, Loki is no human. If Loki wants Cap dead, he is dead.
Cap is no 10 tonner, one time he strugles with weight he has no trouble another time, inconsistency - big time. So better not to label him.
Also holding a helicopter taking off is not as impressive as it may seem. There is other, more impressive feats.
1. We are talking about CW Cap, whose stats, skill is x10>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>MTA Cap due to the ridiculous amount training he has taken, so the outcome of the fight can very well be different.
2.When did he struggle with weight he has no trouble another time? Point me that instance and i guarantee you i will find out the context behind that feat. Also, like ANY comic book character, Cap has high-end and middle-level strength feat. But most of his middle-level strength feats would put him in Class 5. And you can't talk about inconsistency for MCU Cap, he is the most consistent in term of powers and improvements among the Avengers, all of the other avengers are far more INCONSISTENT than him. And still, you don't see me trying to nitpicking their feats, do you?
For example, people here say MCU Iron Man is a 60+ toner, even though he has only one tie-in comic feat to proof this, and zero movie feats to support this, and i don't disagree with them, because i know that is how he is supposed to be portrayed. It is the same for MCU Cap, directors want to portray him as a superhuman and can improve very fast in all stats, or more like Ultimate Cap in term of powers and abilities then let them be.
@tsol: Everybody in the movie have inconsistent feats, thats why i do not put label on any of them.
Captain America would definitely be the most consistent Avenger, even Chris Evans insisted on keeping the consistency throughout future films,
This is what Chris Evans stated:
"The only thing I kind of talked to [Joss Whedon] about was his ability consistency. You know, with the second Captain America we really pushed the envelope in terms of what this guy is capable of, which I was excited to see because the first Captain America he’s just strong. In Avengers it was still in my opinion a little bit punch, punch, kick, kick. His fight style needs to advance a little bit. I don’t wanna go full Bruce Lee, but there needs to be more than just haymakers and fun kicks. There needs to be a style of fight. There needs to be a consistent display of strength. The foes are a bit more of a challenge, so in a way he’s not as effective as I’d like him to be [in Avengers: Age of Ultron]. You know, you have to measure your enemy’s ability based on his capacity to win, and sometimes Cap has to take that one to the chin, be the one who gets thrown around a little bit – because these Ultrons are pretty powerful."
@ad-arts: So class 2 can throw a 250 kg motorcycle with enough force to destroy a jeep moving at 60+ mph? Class 2 can put the 9 foot Ultron, who is an Iron Man level physical opponent in a headlock and make him struggle to get out? Class 2 can casually ripped apart titanium bots with his bare hands? Class 2 can easily overpower titanium bots that can easily lift cars ? Class 2 can throw a 9 foot robot composed completely of metal through a concrete pillar? Class 2 can punch with 100+ tons of force ( this was calculated in the CW Arrow vs MCU Cap thread, page 12)?
@archangel01: i want to slap you in the face so bad!!!!!
the bulldozer Cap effortlessly pushed was a Liebher Dozer 764, which weigh roughly at least 60 tons
Why can't the feat be legitimate ??? It is obviously the show runner's intention for us to see that MCU Cap is a superhuman you idiot. So unless you are going to argue with the show runner himself, just sit down, shut up and accept that MCU Cap is a superhuman.
@archangel01: You and abraham 700 are among the worst MCU Cap low baller i have ever seen !!!!! You can't even low ball Cap without having your logic faulty or being debunked by other users
@tsol: bulldozer was around 8 tonnes plus he never did it on screen so we cant count it as a legit feat,
Cap is just am enhanced human, street leveler,
Hellboy from movies would stomp him,and he is superhuman not mcu cap
I'm not sure what your definition of superhuman is, but if you think a human being can drag down helicopters with their bare hands, throw motorcycles like toys, outrun cars and fall over ten stories without injury then you have a SERIOUS misunderstanding of very basic human anatomy.
So post Civil War the advantages are still the same, it's just Cap is closer across the board;
Strength is Loki, but it's close enough that he can't bully Cap with it
Durability is Loki by a wide margin, although Steve's blunt force durability is nothing to dismiss
Reaction speed is Cap, but it's close. Combat speed is Cap comfortably.
Skill is a clear advantage for Cap, but Loki is very skilled himself and will be getting hits in
Striking Power is Cap
So the fight hangs on whether you think he can hurt Loki or not, given his new feats (hurting Iron-Man and War Machine with his fists/kicks, tearing through armor with the shield) I'd say its nearly damn certain he can.
So post Civil War the advantages are still the same, it's just Cap is closer across the board;
Strength is Loki, but it's close enough that he can't bully Cap with it
Durability is Loki by a wide margin, although Steve's blunt force durability is nothing to dismiss
Reaction speed is Cap, but it's close. Combat speed is Cap comfortably.
Skill is a clear advantage for Cap, but Loki is very skilled himself and will be getting hits in
Striking Power is Cap
So the fight hangs on whether you think he can hurt Loki or not, given his new feats (hurting Iron-Man and War Machine with his fists/kicks, tearing through armor with the shield) I'd say its nearly damn certain he can.
I agree completely with this assessment. What if you were to add Bucky? Would it make much of difference?
So post Civil War the advantages are still the same, it's just Cap is closer across the board;
Strength is Loki, but it's close enough that he can't bully Cap with it
Durability is Loki by a wide margin, although Steve's blunt force durability is nothing to dismiss
Reaction speed is Cap, but it's close. Combat speed is Cap comfortably.
Skill is a clear advantage for Cap, but Loki is very skilled himself and will be getting hits in
Striking Power is Cap
So the fight hangs on whether you think he can hurt Loki or not, given his new feats (hurting Iron-Man and War Machine with his fists/kicks, tearing through armor with the shield) I'd say its nearly damn certain he can.
I agree completely with this assessment. What if you were to add Bucky? Would it make much of difference?
Assuming the team still got the shield they would eviscerate. Bucky could probably overpower him at this point and with a numbers advantage they could take turns attacking with the shield/arm.
So post Civil War the advantages are still the same, it's just Cap is closer across the board;
Strength is Loki, but it's close enough that he can't bully Cap with it
Durability is Loki by a wide margin, although Steve's blunt force durability is nothing to dismiss
Reaction speed is Cap, but it's close. Combat speed is Cap comfortably.
Skill is a clear advantage for Cap, but Loki is very skilled himself and will be getting hits in
Striking Power is Cap
So the fight hangs on whether you think he can hurt Loki or not, given his new feats (hurting Iron-Man and War Machine with his fists/kicks, tearing through armor with the shield) I'd say its nearly damn certain he can.
I agree completely with this assessment. What if you were to add Bucky? Would it make much of difference?
Assuming the team still got the shield they would eviscerate. Bucky could probably overpower him at this point and with a numbers advantage they could take turns attacking with the shield/arm.
@ad-arts: So class 2 can throw a 250 kg motorcycle with enough force to destroy a jeep moving at 60+ mph? Class 2 can put the 9 foot Ultron, who is an Iron Man level physical opponent in a headlock and make him struggle to get out? Class 2 can casually ripped apart titanium bots with his bare hands? Class 2 can easily overpower titanium bots that can easily lift cars ? Class 2 can throw a 9 foot robot composed completely of metal through a concrete pillar? Class 2 can punch with 100+ tons of force ( this was calculated in the CW Arrow vs MCU Cap thread, page 12)?
Yes class 2-3 can throw 250kg motorcycle and destroy a jeep moving in opposite direction - speed adds up here. Even if motorcycle was not moving, there would be some damage on the jeep... If he is class 2-3, 250kg is 1/8th - 1/12th of his max. Example. If I can lift 100kg, 1/12th is 8kg. Trust me i can throw 8kg pretty far. Not as far, obviously but hey, i am realy not imaginary :)
Class 2 can put the 9 foot Ultron, who is an Iron Man level physical opponent in a headlock and make him struggle to get out?
Not a measurable feat here.
Class 2 can casually ripped apart titanium bots with his bare hands?
No, and You know what? Not even 50 tonner could so pretty much perfect example of inconsistency. This is basically what I am talking about.
Class 2 can easily overpower titanium bots that can easily lift cars ?
No but 10 tonner could not either.
Class 2 can throw a 9 foot robot composed completely of metal through a concrete pillar?
And how much do you think it weights? If he was the size of average human and made of stell he would weight around 500kg. Average human body is around 66 litres, stell density is 7,8kg m/3. That gives us 514kg. Of course robot is bigger then human, but he is also not made of stell. Metal was said to be a lot lighter then stell, isnt that right? 1/3rd if i remember correctly. So robot was 500kg tops. So, can 2 tonner do that? Yes 2 tonner can throw 500kg robot... Even if robot was 1t, and it was not, he could still throw it being 2 tonner.
Class 2 can punch with 100+ tons of force ( this was calculated in the CW Arrow vs MCU Cap thread, page 12)?
No but neither 2/5/10/20/50 tonner could . See inconsistency? He struggles with couple tonne helicopter then punches with 100t+ ( i am not sure about it but i am gonna trust you on this one ).
Class 2 can casually ripped apart titanium bots with his bare hands?
No, and You know what? Not even 50 tonner could so pretty much perfect example of inconsistency. This is basically what I am talking about.
Titanium have ultimate tensile strength of about 434 MPa, (63,000 psi), equal to that of common, low-grade steel alloys, but are less dense. Cap has replicated this kind of feat when was breaking into a room on the hellicarrier to find hydra weapons (shearing metal locks with his bare hands):
Those doors have solid metal slabs that slide into those opening's. Those opening are probably around 3/4"wide x 4" tall, and 2 inch long. I will be using mild/ low carbon A36 steel to keep this simple. It likely could have been made of something stronger but we will go with that. So first we want to find the ultimate tensile strength. Ultimate tensile strength is most likely 550 mpa or 80,000 psi. Alright so now we can start to find the ultimate sheer strength. So the relationship of Ultimate Sheer Strength = 0.60 X Ulitmate Tensile Strength So 80,000 psi X.60 = 48,000 psi ultimate sheer strength. Now that we have the Ultimate Sheer Strength for A36 steel (48,000psi) we need to find the cross sectional area. So lets just go with the conservative estimates. 4" height, 3/4 Width, 2" length and density of A36 steel is 7,800 kg/m^3. Cross section area ends up being 3 in^2. Now to find the Ultimate Sheer Strength of 1 of those locking bars in foot pounds, we multiple 48,000 psi x 3 in^2 =144000 ft/ lbs of force to sheer those bar locks, or about 70 tons of force to break 1 of those slabs of steel. And this is MTA Cap, whose stats are significantly weaker than AOU Cap, so i thick it is reasonable for him to be able to easily rip apart titanium bots.
Class 2 can easily overpower titanium bots that can easily lift cars ?
No but 10 tonner could not either.
Actually, 10 toners can do it very easily. The Ultron bots Cap overpowered was most likely 2 toners. If Cap is in Class 5, than he would be 2.5-5 times stronger than them, which would make it easy for him to overpower them.
Class 2 can throw a 9 foot robot composed completely of metal through a concrete pillar?
And how much do you think it weights? If he was the size of average human and made of stell he would weight around 500kg. Average human body is around 66 litres, stell density is 7,8kg m/3. That gives us 514kg. Of course robot is bigger then human, but he is also not made of stell. Metal was said to be a lot lighter then stell, isnt that right? 1/3rd if i remember correctly. So robot was 500kg tops. So, can 2 tonner do that? Yes 2 tonner can throw 500kg robot... Even if robot was 1t, and it was not, he could still throw it being 2 tonner.
I agree that a 2 toner can throw a 500 kg robot, but certainly not with one arm, with the ease or at the speed cap was throwing him and definitely not with enough force for it to destroy a concrete pillar.
Class 2 can punch with 100+ tons of force ( this was calculated in the CW Arrow vs MCU Cap thread, page 12)?
No but neither 2/5/10/20/50 tonner could . See inconsistency? He struggles with couple tonne helicter then punches with 100t+ ( i am not sure about it but i am gonna trust you on this one ).
Well, he could. Striking strength is different from lifting strength. For example, boxers can only lift 150-220 lbs but they can generate up to 10 times that amount of force. So i imagine that if Cap's combat speed was enhanced by the serum, he could punch with 100+ tons of force, but this would require him to be able to lift no less than 5-10 tons.
From what i have seen of Cap. Most of his strength feat would put him in Class 5. And the helicopter feat is one of those
@archangel01: Is the difference between their physical capabilities as big as the difference between Iron Man's and Cap's? Because if Hellboy isn't more powerful than Iron Man, he isn't stomping MCU Cap
@tsol: Actually, 10 toners can do it very easily. The Ultron bots Cap overpowered was most likely 2 toners. If Cap is in Class 5, than he would be 2.5-5 times stronger than them, which would make it easy for him to overpower them.
Can an elephant overpower titanium bot? Elephant is around 10 tonner... Cap is stronger then elephant now? No, just no....
I agree that a 2 toner can throw a 500 kg robot, but definitely not with one arm, with the ease or at the speed cap was throwing him and definitely not with enough force for it to destroy a concrete pillar.
And how do you know how much of that feat was because of Cap's strength and how much because of robot's weight and durability? No way to tell. Conctrete gives up quicly vs solid metal.
For example, boxers can only lift 150-220 lbs but they can generate up to 10 times that amount of force.
No they cannot, 2-3 times tops ! And this is what they do for a living, Cap is no boxer, he is impressive over all, boxers do train for this specific feat. Of course cap will punch much harder, but 100t? Cmn get real.
A study of seven Olympic boxers in weight classes ranging from flyweight to super heavyweight showed a range of 447 to 1,066 pounds of peak punching force.
So i imagine that if Cap's combat speed was enhanced by the serum, he could punch with 100+ tons of force, but this would require him to be able to lift no less than 5-10 tons.
Cap's speed was said to be 2 times of that of regular human. I do know its running speed but since we have no data on any other speed we should go with that one. If he is 2x as fast as human, for him to punch with 100t+ force, he should be at least 25 tonner. That is almost 3 elephants in terms of strength... Can he overpower 3 elephants? NO, that's ridiculous. So then again, why does he struggle with couple tonne helicopter? Why?
INCONSITENCY. It maybe smaller then when talking about other guys, but it is there, you cannot deny it. If we go by consistency, he is 5 tonne TOPS - absolute max, most likely lower. It is not like 5 tonne is bad anyway.... Still crazy strong for a human.
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