MCU Black Widow vs MCU Stick

H2H ONLY

Who wins?

vs

Widow

Stick. He's arguably the best martial artist in the MCU.

Widow

@uugieboogie: Then who is?

Stick.

Black Widow.

I'd say either Nobu or T'Challa at this point.

Certainly not Stick. He doesn't have a single a single feat say otherwise.

@uugieboogie: What about almost beating Daredevil, despite being decades older than Daredevil.

I'm not saying he'd win every single fight, but in terms of pure fighting skill, he's probably the best in the MCU. Top 5 for sure, with most of the other 4 being other Daredevil characters.

@mrmonster:

Is the other one T'Challa?

Regardless, I put Widow around Matt's level. She should still be near the top tier.

Cap is the best h2h MCU fighter

@mrmonster: Widow, Cap, T'Challa, Melinda May, Bobbi Morse, Grant Ward. 6 characters all in the MCU with better skill showings.

Stick doesn't have any showings to say he's the best fighter in the MCU. I suppose an argument could be made for him having the best technical knowledge (via hype and implication) but inferior physicals, but I wouldn't put much faith in that

By feats, Widow takes him apart

Nat destroys him

Stick 8/10

@mrmonster: IMO Stick could be up there with hype but IMO the best fighter in the MCU via feats is between Cap, May, Bobbi, and DD.

I'd say Stick could take a small majority against Widow.

Widow

Stick in is prime could probably take her tho

Stick, especially after recent showings handling black sky and Alexandra at once

Stick Post-Defenders.

His Pain tolerance was near Punisher level IMO.

My dude is Frank had to chop his own hand off in order to escape... he would. But he'd at least FEEL IT. Like, he's give a grunt or an "oh shit" or something, ANY reaction at all. But Stick didn't even seem to care, whatsoever.

true bad@$$

@the_hajduk: I was thinking of 616 Punisher when I made the comment though.

I also feel MCU Frank would do more than just grunt considering he was screaming in pain when he was getting his foot drilled.

his pain tolerance has gotten better after his solo series. Remember the brutal torture he received.

Natasha. Stick is old and doesn't have enough h2h feats to put him above Nat in that department. Would be a good fight though.

In pure h2h, I'd side with Stick.

Nat is too conniving for stick.

Black Widow has never shown pain tolerance anywhere near on par with Frank or Stick.

The torture scene in the Avenger would be a joy ride on the merry go round for either

^^^

Stick

what torture scene ?

Honestly I'd hardly call this torture

Stick by logic

Give Widow her batons and give Stick a sword then tell me who wins....

i figured you were going to bring up ultron and not this .. this only makes her look more tougher ..i dont like widow or women like that natasha is a still a girly girl i hate women like her ..dare devil comics or avengers did not invent black widow and SHE WASNT MEANT TO BE A 3RD DEGREE BLACK BELT OR WHATEVER she was meant to be a girly girl who messes around or marries (with a innocent russian accent )rich guys and poisons or gasses them in their sleep which is what she tried to do to tony .. then marvel gave her a boycutt tommy girl look and made her a bad ass fighter she is kind of like pyslocke who was meant to be a telepath only

^this isnt torture .. torture is when you are in a situation and know there is no rescue/ or no way of powering out . if green goblin captured gassed clarke kent and hid a bomb somehwere in ny and he decided he was going to peel off the finger nail of superman wouldnt superman want to look afraid? and styx didnt survive the torture he cut off his own arm his career is fucked also he pursues a career in crime for his own personal benefit he is a weak minded selfish lying bastard / and natasha is a cold b****t like two peas in a pod if you ask me

styx actually was spilling the goods at the end " not if iron fist blah blah "

Tough one, I'm leaning towards stick. From what we know Stick never slacked before he died, had been at it for a loooong time dealing with high skilled assassin. His skill and precision in any area was phenomenal. He was resiliant enough to do what he had to do at any time.

Black Widow though, most of what she does is based on gathering information while she is skilled, the oppenents she faces are always canon fodder and compared to the hand they're just standard soldiers or robots(avengers) with no martial skill whatsoever. I'm really trying hard to think of someone she fought seriously with other than Clint and even then it wasn't really much of a fight they were just going back and forth even having casual conversation. Before that he was mind controled and because his level of skill in h2h also isn't on display in any of the movies he's appeared in it's hard to guage her skill level in h2h for me. Meanwhile Stick has fought evenly or held his own with both Matt and Elektra and its quite possible he was holding back in two of those 3 fights.

Ok this is what I want to address from this post. First lets adress the bolded 1. His name is Stick not Styx 2. Clearly you have something personal against the character, which makes bias "selfish lying bastard" he left Matt to live his life in peace after they fought. He left Elektra to a rich family that could afford to take care of her rather than continue to raise her purely as an assassin. Cut off his own hand for the sake of his his mission but he's selfish? Yea, that makes a lot of sense.

"weak minded selfish lying bastard" do you know the meaning of weak minded or you just throwing around insulting words?
"pursues a career in crime for his own personal benefit." Exactly what crimes did he commit for his own personal benefit? Going in Matts fridge for a beer without permission? He doesn't make any money slaying Hand Ninja, and the only thing he has to gain is not seeing NY or Matt slain because of The Hand soo....what kind of logic is that?

@cascadeking09: Clint held his own against T'Challa, who's very skilled and almost twice Clint's every stat. It was a great skill feat and Natasha beating a bloodlusted Clint while holding back puts her on a skill level above either of them imo.

That said I can't talk for this fight.

Stick

Pretty sure T'Challa having no quarrel with him works to his benefit, add to the fact they hardly fought and him using his gear not just fighting hand to hand and it's not much of a feat at all. I would also like to mention once T'challa said he wasn't interested the fight was over.

@cascadeking09: No, I'm talking about them fighting CQC for more than half a minute and Clint even managing to get him in a grip with his bow. Despite the huge stat disadvantage.

T'Challa said he did not care right before they exchanged on CQC. If anything, this makes the fight more credible seeing as how he would want to take down Clint quickly to go fight Bucky.

Widow faught Clint under the same circumstances Panther faught him when he was bloodlusted because of mind control. I consider that a top notch skill showing.

@anthp2000: Ok then let be more clear about this. T'challa was not interested in hurting Clint. Clint fired shots at him first and they exchanged for a few seconds, there is no way to take that fight seriously as the minute T'challa decides he doesn't want to fight him at all he knocks clint on his rear and continues after Bucky.

I get you think it's to Clint's credit but there's really no evidence the Clint "held his own" as T'challa "did not care", he said "I'm Clint" and T'challa said "I don't care." meaning he did not care who he wasn't, that had nothing to do with their exchange which was still extremely short. I'd consider this a feat only if T'challa doesn't easily escape his grip and floor him and do exactly as he so pleased. The only thing I can really take is that Clint was no match for him at all.

You may see it differently, but their little scuffle isnt much to brag or debate about as he didn't do anything other than slow T'challa down for a few seconds. That isn't a feat imo.

@cascadeking09: That's some obvious denial there. Can't you see how a part of what you're saying contradicts the other?

He was not just non-interested in fighting him. Buck was getting away. T'Challa had to end the fight quickly. Yet, Clint gave him trouble and even incaped him briefly. T'Challa clearly won through his enhansed physicals. He faught T'Challa as long as Bucky did and lasted as long. Might as well say he performed better despite his lack of enhansed stats. That's great skill.

Wow someone likes to make up their own truths.

They traded a few shots and then he floored him. Bucky did a heck of a lot more than that, please stop it. I can't even entertain this argument if you're going to act delusional just to give Clint credit for doing something that makes Black Widow a more capable fighting by beating him. This doesnt even have anything to do with the topic other than you using abc logic. Getting someone in hold for ONE second does not require skill, a complete amateur or someone with no training at all could put somene in a head lock for a second before the superior fighter chooses to escape.

It would be different if we saw T'challa struggling but we didn't, what we saw was a scuffle if you can even call it that. T'challa had to exchange as he was standing between he and Bucky. He threw a few shots but landed nothing, he got him in a hold and when T'challa decided the fight was over it as over that much is factual. So do tell me what part of my argument was contradictory?

Stick

@cascadeking09: Yeah you are in complete denial to accept it... Who cares about 'making Widow look better' or 'giving Clint credit'. I care to discuss what happened in the fight.

There's nothing to suggest other than your headcanon and some non sensical logic that T'Challa could've one shot him whenever he wanted, because he would have no reason to not do it. He was in a hurry to catch up to Buck. He had to end the fight as quickly as possible, yet he did not end it quickly. We saw then fighting evenly and then we cut to other fights and then we see T'Challa incaped, granted briefly. I don't see how this is not holding your own.

Lol a normal person can get T'Challa on a hold? It doesn't take skill? I'm sorry but you're being delusional.

Oh really? In a thread called "MCU Black Widow vs MCU Stick" you came to argue about a completely unrelated fight that lasted all of about 24 secs? So you're spamming the thread or trolling?

Really? Other than the fact that he basically did. It happened. The second he needed to stop fighting Clint because Bucky was getting away. He was being distracted and that's literally all that happened. Aside from that Clint did nothing, he didn't even land a clean shot. You're comparing that which lasted less than 30 secs to Bucky fighting him and now you've gone from saying he "held his own" to overstating something so simple trying to claim it was an even fight? But I'm delusional.

While T'Challa is not interested in fighting him at all? No it doesn't. The man broke his bow in half, what do you think that vibranium armor could've done to his limbs if he took Bucky serious? Okay, from here on out I'm just gonna say you're right and I'm wrong because that's clearly what this is about for you. Okay, buddy? But so you don't get any ideas and everybody can see what happened.

The entire time BP is doing nothing but dodging, when they cut back to the fight Clint is behind him with the bow in front of him(we don't see BP strugging just that Clint is behind him with the bow in front), which is immediately cut through with his claws. The next thing that happens is Clint rolling on the grown holding himself in pain. That's an even fight? I will be the first to admit I'm delusional if everyone else agrees with you that that you can all Clint holding his own or fighting "evenly" there. That's the last I'm going to say, there is nothing further I can say to you if that doesnt convince you. We're done here.

@cascadeking09: D-e-l-u-s-i-o-n-a-l

Clint faught evenly with Black Panther for almost a whole minute and held his own fine. Not only that, he even managed to incap T'Challa within his bow's grip. Litteraly what we see. We see them going back and forth for some seconds and then we cut to other battles and then we cut to the last part where T'Challa is briefly incaped.

Which part is it that you disagree with?