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#1 Edited by Arcus1 (24632 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Widow:

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VS

Grant Ward:

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When these agents do battle, who will win?

MCU versions of both

Fight takes place in the streets of New York City.

Both have been assigned to take the other out. Victory by ko or death

Round 1:

Both are unarmed. No weapons or gear

Starting distance is 10 feet

Round 2:

Widow has her Widow's bite and garotte

Ward has an ICER and combat knife

Starting distance is 50 feet. Both start by cover (assume lots of room to work with potential cover and such)

Who wins?

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#2 Posted by MBCB2001 (1398 posts) - - Show Bio
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#3 Posted by Arcus1 (24632 posts) - - Show Bio
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#4 Posted by MBCB2001 (1398 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1: she has defeated Clint Barton (someone that is as strong as or even stronger than Grant Ward in my opinion), has more experience and technique. Ward has been defeated by Agent May, who once mentioned that was bellow Natasha. She is a better fighter in every aspect (skilled, experienced, trained, etc...) and not for nothing she was chosen to be involved in The Avengers Initiative and not Agent Ward.

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#5 Posted by jayskee (4164 posts) - - Show Bio

Widow

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#7 Posted by space_coyote (2964 posts) - - Show Bio

@mbcb2001 said:

@arcus1: she has defeated Clint Barton (someone that is as strong as or even stronger than Grant Ward in my opinion), has more experience and technique. Ward has been defeated by Agent May, who once mentioned that was bellow Natasha. She is a better fighter in every aspect (skilled, experienced, trained, etc...) and not for nothing she was chosen to be involved in The Avengers Initiative and not Agent Ward.

This

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#8 Posted by NatsuDragneel41 (425 posts) - - Show Bio

Widow

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#9 Posted by Cregan_Stark (4911 posts) - - Show Bio

Widow both rounds, second round isn't very close

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#10 Edited by LlehDevil (7259 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1 goes to Widow due to submission techniques.

Round 2 she just shoots him.

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#11 Posted by Arcus1 (24632 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1 goes to Widow due to submission techniques.

Round 2 she just shoots him.

I doubt it will be that easy for her to shoot him with the bite immediately

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#12 Posted by nfactor1995 (12157 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Widow in a tough fight probably

2. Widow

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#13 Edited by LlehDevil (7259 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:
@llehdevil said:

Round 1 goes to Widow due to submission techniques.

Round 2 she just shoots him.

I doubt it will be that easy for her to shoot him with the bite immediately

True, but batons and widow bite for her is better than ice pick and knife for Ward. So it ends with Widow shooting Ward in the chest, lol.

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#14 Posted by rogueshadow (24945 posts) - - Show Bio

Both rounds are tight, people are underrating Ward. I give Widow round two, but I can see an argument for both sides in round one.

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#15 Posted by rogueshadow (24945 posts) - - Show Bio

@mbcb2001 said:

@arcus1: she has defeated Clint Barton (someone that is as strong as or even stronger than Grant Ward in my opinion), has more experience and technique. Ward has been defeated by Agent May, who once mentioned that was bellow Natasha. She is a better fighter in every aspect (skilled, experienced, trained, etc...) and not for nothing she was chosen to be involved in The Avengers Initiative and not Agent Ward.

This

May was never said to be below Natasha, it was actually said that May has more black belts than Black Widow.

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#16 Posted by Arcus1 (24632 posts) - - Show Bio

@arcus1 said:
@llehdevil said:

Round 1 goes to Widow due to submission techniques.

Round 2 she just shoots him.

I doubt it will be that easy for her to shoot him with the bite immediately

True, but batons and widow bite for her is better than ice pick and knife for Ward. So it ends with Widow shooting Ward in the chest, lol.

ice pick?

Icer is the gun (I guess it's usually all caps, ICER)

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#17 Posted by MBCB2001 (1398 posts) - - Show Bio
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#18 Posted by LlehDevil (7259 posts) - - Show Bio
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#19 Posted by HeroUp2112 (13037 posts) - - Show Bio

I doubt it would be easy, but Widow definitely has the edge in both fights.

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#20 Posted by DSTREET45 (3849 posts) - - Show Bio

I'll give both rounds to Ward, who's definitely being underrated. I'll give my reasons later.

And since when was May stated to below Widow?

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#21 Posted by AngelJax (4169 posts) - - Show Bio

Unarmed, Ward

Round 2, is more even. Both can easily one-shot the other. Whoever is quicker on the draw wins the round.

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#22 Posted by RBT (16649 posts) - - Show Bio

Ward takes R1. Natasha takes R2

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#23 Posted by ANTHP2000 (10326 posts) - - Show Bio

Widow both rounds

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#24 Posted by DSTREET45 (3849 posts) - - Show Bio

Ward both Rounds. IMO he's better in H2H than she is and ICERS> Widow Bites.

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#25 Edited by RabumAlal (3684 posts) - - Show Bio

Widow stomps both rounds. She probably can beat both May and Ward together.

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#26 Edited by The_Magister (3196 posts) - - Show Bio

R1 - I think the important thing to note is Ward's physicals (strength, stamina, durability). I believe he outclasses her in these, although I'd give Nat an edge in speed & agility. Skill is more or less even, maybe with a slight edge to Nat. But the thing with Ward is, he presses so hard that more agile fighters often don't have the space and time to pull off their stunts (look at his fights with May and Bobbi). I'd give Ward 6-7/10 fights.

R2 - They're both really proficient with their tools of choice. Natasha has the Widow's Bite, but Ward won't let himself get tagged and is a far superior marksman. He takes it 8/10 times.

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#27 Posted by Logan812 (93 posts) - - Show Bio

Widow stomps both rounds. She probably can beat both May and Ward together.

No, she cannot.

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#28 Posted by DSTREET45 (3849 posts) - - Show Bio

Ward both Rounds. IMO he's better in H2H than she is and ICERS> Widow Bites.

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#29 Posted by SupremeGeneration (6656 posts) - - Show Bio

Widow both rounds.

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#30 Posted by HeirToTheKingdom (9126 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Widow without much difficulty.

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#31 Edited by AllStarSuperman (40248 posts) - - Show Bio

Widow.

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#32 Edited by Logan812 (93 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread is basically who watches Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. vs who doesn't while assuming Grant Ward's capabilities. Yes, Black Widow is a capable fighter, but she's a spy first - warrior second whereas Ward is the opposite. To all those saying Widow can easily beat May, they're actually about even at the very least.

Anyway, Ward wins both rounds although Round 2 would be difficult for both Widow and Ward.

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#33 Posted by americanspeeddemon (5344 posts) - - Show Bio

Ward both rounds. Round 1 he should win comfortably.

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#34 Posted by deactivated-5a220d15cc740 (2527 posts) - - Show Bio

Natasha is clearly the better fighter here but Ward's durability and pain tolerance more than make up for whatever skill disadvantage he's at. IIRC, Ward has stalemated May twice and I don't see why he can't replicate the same against Nat. Honestly, I'm not sure who'd win so I'm calling a stalemate.

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#35 Posted by DSTREET45 (3849 posts) - - Show Bio

Ward both rounds.

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#36 Edited by The_Magister (3196 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_fallen_lord said:

Natasha is clearly the better fighter here but Ward's durability and pain tolerance more than make up for whatever skill disadvantage he's at. IIRC, Ward has stalemated May twice and I don't see why he can't replicate the same against Nat. Honestly, I'm not sure who'd win so I'm calling a stalemate.

Disagreed that Natasha is clearly the better fighter.

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Ward clearly has an excellent grasp of striking/countering technique, and he just makes it look casual. Everything's easy and free flowing when he fights - Ward does get tagged more due to the fact that he doesn't really utilize acrobatics, is not as quick as Nat, and occasionally gets arrogant.

But I very much doubt that she is clearly a better fighter, especially given his pedigree as a combatant within SHIELD before its collapse. He'd received the highest possible combat grades by an agency that has seen Widow, Cap, Crossbones, and Hawkeye fight.

For more reference, check out the respect thread I made: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/mcu-grant-ward-respect-thread-1894929/

It has more skill feats.

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#37 Posted by deactivated-5a220d15cc740 (2527 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_magister:

No doubt Ward is pretty impressive. He's actually my favorite AoS character. But I think people are forgetting how good Natasha is even though they're all familiar with her feats. So, let's refresh:

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As seen in the above gif, Natasha beats three guys while tied to a chair. This is very impressive as she not only had to fight with her hands tied behind her back but she also had to deal with the added weight of the chair which most definitely affected her combat speed but even that didn't stop her from stomping those guys and she did that without getting tagged even once. Plus, the back flip she did was super cool, not that it's relevant to this discussion but I had to say it.

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Here you can see that Alexander Pierce is holding a gun towards one of the WSC councilmen and is about to shoot him. Now what follows is absolutely nuts. Black Widow not only kicks the guy out of harm's way, but she also closes in onto Pierce and then proceeds to punch him in the face and disarm him. And she does all that stuff with such lightening speed that neither Pierce, who has his finger on the trigger ready to shoot, nor his henchmen who have them surrounded on all sides, could even react to what happened. We all know what happened next. She blitzed the Hydra agents (at least 3 of them) who were armed with handguns with such speed that not a single shot was fired and majority of that was h2h except the one agent she shot with her taser disc (or whatever it's called). And again, she did all that without getting tagged. So, she's not only super skilled, she's fast as well, very fast.

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Again, as can be seen above, Natasha is taking on heavily armed mercenaries (at least 6 of them) in broad daylight attacking from the front. She takes out one with the motorcycle slide, two with her taser discs and the rest in h2h and yet again she doesn't allow a single shot to be fired. Plus, and I'm getting tired of saying this but because it's so impressive I have to, she did all that without getting tagged.

So, she's smart, uber skilled, super fast and hot as hell (not relevant to this discussion, so please ignore) and technically one of the best fighters in the MCU.

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#38 Posted by The_Magister (3196 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_fallen_lord: Great feats, I totally forgot about the second feat of taking down the STRIKE agents.

Brilliant fighter, no doubt. I think I'd place her above him, I was just contesting the fact that she is clearly better. I think she is more skilled, but not by a great amount.

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#39 Posted by deactivated-5a220d15cc740 (2527 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_fallen_lord: Great feats, I totally forgot about the second feat of taking down the STRIKE agents.

Brilliant fighter, no doubt. I think I'd place her above him, I was just contesting the fact that she is clearly better. I think she is more skilled, but not by a great amount.

I completely agree.

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#40 Edited by Paytience (2737 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_fallen_lord: Those same feats when comparrd to the AoS characters are not relatively imoressive because:

1. The russians she fights tied to a chair are of the same tier or LOWER than the ones the agents fight in Russia in AoS 3×13. The agents fodderize them. Daisy eliminates 2 of them in about a 1/2-1 second time frame.

Besides...Ward beat 4 agents with guns in close quarters...

2. Alexander Pierce WAS fodderized on the show. Ward eliminated his team in literally about 1 second. Widow blitzed them with gear without getting tagged? Ward walked into a room where Pierce's men were waiting for them and knew they were about to enter...and Ward gunned them down with Icers before single one of them even got their guns up.

Thus, Widows bites vs Icers? Ward has already performed better against the EXACT same people with his icers than Widow has with her gear.

Gou guys tend to forget, under the Avengers watch, Shield got taken down by Hydra. No debate. It was Coulson's team who cleaned that mess up...including killing every single head of Hydra outside of other then Strucker, who's death Coulson is directly responsible for.

Why is this relevant to Ward, who turned bad? Because he is better on a 1 to 1 level than any one of his old teammates.

Ward beats Widow in almost any head to head scenario I can think of. Rd 2 might be 50/50.

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#41 Posted by The_Magister (3196 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_fallen_lord: Those same feats when comparrd to the AoS characters are not relatively imoressive because:

1. The russians she fights tied to a chair are of the same tier or LOWER than the ones the agents fight in Russia in AoS 3×13. The agents fodderize them. Does eliminates 2 of them in about a 1/2-1 second time frame.

2. Alexander Pierce WAS fodderized on the show. Ward eliminated his team in literally about 1 second. Widow blitzed them with gear without getting tagged? Ward walked into a room where Pierce's men were waiting for them and knew they were about to enter...and Ward gunned them down with Icers before single one of them even got their guns up.

Thus, Widows bites vs Icers? Ward has already performed better against the EXACT same people with his icers than Widow has with her gear.

When was Pierce on the show?

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#42 Edited by Paytience (2737 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_magister: Pierce was on the show in season 1. He was responsible for the centipede program.

Then again...I'm hungover and just woke up. I could be completely ass backwards...in fact I might be now that I think about it.

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#43 Edited by The_Magister (3196 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience: IIRC John Garrett (aka Ward's mentor) was the head of the Centipede Project. It was a way to create super-soldiers that could be brought back to life, as well as cure Garrett of his organ failure. He received calls from Pierce because they had mutual friends (both being heads of HYDRA), but Pierce wasn't directly involved with the Centipede Project.

Edit: Yeah that explains it, someone with your AoS/MCU knowledge wouldn't normally mistake Garrett for Pierce. I was seriously concerned when I saw you had typed that.

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#44 Posted by deactivated-5a220d15cc740 (2527 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience:

Those same feats when comparrd to the AoS characters are not relatively imoressive because:

1. The russians she fights tied to a chair are of the same tier or LOWER than the ones the agents fight in Russia in AoS 3×13. The agents fodderize them. Does eliminates 2 of them in about a 1/2-1 second time frame.

Were the agents tied to a chair?

2. Alexander Pierce WAS fodderized on the show.

Alexander Pierce was on the show?

Ward eliminated his team in literally about 1 second. Widow blitzed them with gear without getting tagged?

What are you saying? All the feats I posted above are mostly h2h. Widow used her bites once in the 2nd gif and twice in the 3rd and both times she was fighting armed men while heavily outnumbered. Show me a feat from Ward fighting as many armed men totally unarmed and I'll concede.

Ward walked into a room where Pierce's men were waiting for them and knew they were about to enter...and Ward gunned them down with Icers before single one of them even got their guns up.

Like you said, Ward used icers to gun down those men. Natasha's feats are h2h for the most part.

Thus, Widows bites vs Icers? Ward has already performed better against the EXACT same people with his icers than Widow has with her gear.

I was actually debating h2h.

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#45 Posted by Paytience (2737 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_magister: No garret was part of the Deathlok program...also, he wasn't a head of Hydra.

Pierce waan't on the show...I'm confusing mentions and mixing them up with another face in my head. Honestly. I might be thinking of Ian Quinn.

Pierce was mentioned in somw of the same episodes he was in.

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#46 Posted by The_Magister (3196 posts) - - Show Bio

@paytience:

Garrett was considered by Malick as a potential candidate to rule the world alongside himself and Hive. I'd say he is important enough to qualify as a head of HYDRA. Also, the Deathlok Project and Centipede Project are inter-linked; Garrett was the first Deathlok, and the founder of Project Centipede.

But on another note, if I might ask @the_fallen_lord...which "military van" feat do you find more impressive?

Natasha's showing

Ward's showing

I think they're both pretty cool. Sorry if I'm going off on a bit of a tangent here.

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#47 Posted by deactivated-5a220d15cc740 (2527 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_magister: Natasha's feat highlights her presence of mind, quick thinking and her ability to remain calm and composed in a dire situation and take the appropriate action while Ward's feat although impressive, is a bit more generic, IMO. It mainly shows his ability to take his opponents by surprise in a seemingly helpless situation. But I think in this particular case, both should be able to replicate each other's feat.

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#48 Posted by The_Magister (3196 posts) - - Show Bio
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#49 Edited by The_Magister (3196 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_fallen_lord: Tbh I am rethinking what I said about Widow being outright better. She needs good, directly scaleable feats against a well-established cqc fighter to give her that edge over Ward, imo.

Until then, he should still win. Fodder wrecking feats just aren't enough. I think she is definitely good enough to give him a brilliant fight, though. Implication matters almost as much as feats.

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#50 Posted by theoneaboveyall (196 posts) - - Show Bio

Natasha destroys